The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
One-Boards => Schemes => Topic started by: Anubis on August 22, 2010, 06:24 AM
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Yo, since I understand that a variety of maps is important I think the scheme must be changed, I am currently working on a solution and I came up with some ideas, what I removed out of the scheme were cr8s. That instantly means no cr8 luck anymore.
- Raised the HP to 250 (can be more if games take too long/are too fast over)
- Turn timer still set to 15 (can be adjusted)
The Problem was that no cr8s mean no reason to rope around so I had to get a reason for people to rope around the map. So I came up with a checkpoint like system. Roper maps ALWAYS have 2 islands, that is a fact and I know of no map that has just 1 island (except some w2 rope maps) or 3 islands.
One checkpoint is always the left wall/right wall it depends where YOUR worm stands.
Example:
You hide on the left island, you have to go for the right wall.
This system is not that interesting, you don't have to rope around that much like you do with cr8s. So I thought about adding another checkpoint that the person who picked roper can decide (it is his pick, so the one picking should have the freedom of choice). It worked on every map, on some maps you have to make some space but basically you go into the editor and just make a little square (squares are easier to spike/shadow at than just a huge ball), in the lower middle part. So now we have 2 checkpoints. The Middle checkpoint doesn't need to be touched, but you need to connect the rope to it, this will reduce arguments if a player touched the part or not. (Everyone can see if the rope was connected to the square or not)
The cr8 before attack gets replaced by: Checkpoints before attack. It's still CBA :)
Lets get back to the Example.
Example:
You hide on the left island, you have to go for the right wall. After that you connect to the square in the middle part, THEN you are allowed to attack.
The order 1st square or 1st wall is not given. You can decide yourself if you go for the middle checkpoint 1st or go with the wall checkpoint 1st.
Ok now people could say: What if a player picks a map that is so hard the lower skilled player will just wait for the better playing roper to make a mistake. This will be easily countered with a tiny rule: If you don't reach both checkpoints in your turn, you will have to SKIP your turn. This will give the other player the opportunity to safely rope to the 2 checkpoints and then hide top map. The other player will have to skip and next turn gets an easy attack.
It is not a violation of the rules to shoot your weapon and after wards go to the checkpoints. Just don't shoot your opponent. It's still CBA. (Checkpoint before attack)
P.S.: It's still in development, but the few tests I did offline I never ever lost because of luck. It is pure skill. The better roper will always win this game. If you find flaws please tell me. Or if you have a better idea to remove cr8 luck tell me.
In Elite we have removed cr8s, because they dropped at random places and could decide a game. It's time to do the same in Roper!
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Here are 3 replays.
As you can see it works on every map. Even the evil ones didn't take ages or something, the open ones weren't too easy. For every kind of roper the same difficult.
DarK mentioned that he misses cr8s. I thought about adding 1-5HP cr8s that drop everyturn but you DONTHAVE to collect them. Main goal are the 2 checkpoints.
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Here's a replay with cr8s. The main goal are still the checkpoints. Even if someone hides on top with a huge lead he still has to show roping skills. And that's what Roper is about, consistent roping over a long time with good use of weapons.
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Ok now people could say: What if a player picks a map that is so hard the lower skilled player will just wait for the better playing roper to make a mistake. This will be easily countered with a tiny rule: If you don't reach both checkpoints in your turn, you will have to SKIP your turn. This will give the other player the opportunity to safely rope to the 2 checkpoints and then hide top map. The other player will have to skip and next turn gets an easy attack.
My only problem with this scheme modification is this part, as I believe there is a difference between a player who cheaply waits for the opponent to fall and doesn't even try to rope and between a player who does rope, but fall in the middle and fails to touch both the wall and stick the rope to the checkpoint.
I think for someone who actually falls that is too harsh, why would someone get a penalty for falling? And again, it is hard to draw the line between trying and not trying, saying if it's intentional slow roping or that's what the player can do.
Other than that, I kinda like it, don't put crates in it now once you created the scheme by the idea of removing it! :)
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The cr8 that I put in one of the replays were just for DarK, it was just for his love to cr8s. ;)
The cool thing about the checkpoints are: They are always doable to do and make an attack. And because there is no cr8s where you stack HP sooner or later you will make your opponent move because when you lead the game by lets say 70 HP you can hide at a less easier position and make your attacks one after another easier. The opponent can't just wait for mistakes. Even 10 HP by a zooka each turn will make your opponent move or he/she will loose.
Btw: If you fall before you got to the checkpoints you don't have to take a penalty.
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Okay, now two things - what about hiding in the middle? That would mean a lot less effort in that turn. Would that be considered illegal or... ?
Other thing is the start of the game. The first player has an obvious advantage by not having to rope too much, just start in the middle and the starting player then might have like 5 seconds to perform an attack and then he can hide easily, the other player will only have around 2 seconds to attack (with a probably reckless roping).
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I have changed retreat time to 5 seconds, it reduced the intentional slow roping to wait for the opponent to make a mistake.
Hiding in the middle is ok, you will be more vulnerable for attacks too.
I am thinking of removing Falldamage... it would encourage more speedy roping. Maybe adjust attack power of weapons so matches last longer.
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That is a really good idea removing fall damage +1 for you :)
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Just made a first test without fd. It's so much better! :)
It also increased the # of useful hides. Hides which sucked because of easy fd no longer existed. :)
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wait.. i have an idea, lets just all rope on gundam... i think thats so much better, cuz u can get all cr8s, and even do power spikes :D
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I know of no map that has just 1 island (except some w2 rope maps) or 3 islands.
I did many.
Anyway, my problem with your scheme is that it destroys all of the roper interest:
As crates were randomly dropped, it made the checkpoint randomly placed.
But there, you just made 2 static checkpoints, which looks more like a w2w on a roper map.
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wait.. i have an idea, lets just all rope on gundam... i think thats so much better, cuz u can get all cr8s, and even do power spikes :D
You know this is not what we are talking about, so don't act like a kid, the sarcasm in this case is just pathetic...
If you don't like our ideas fair enough, say something sensible, or don't say anything...
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Yeah avi, a lot of people aren't exactly happy with the current Roper scheme.. And still a lot of people aren't happy with your w2rope scheme either. Something has to be done obviously, and how the hell are we gonna get to the best Roper scheme if we don't do brainstorming like you and Anubis did? He never said it's the perfect scheme (unlike you), how about giving constructive criticism?
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I know of no map that has just 1 island (except some w2 rope maps) or 3 islands.
I did many.
Anyway, my problem with your scheme is that it destroys all of the roper interest:
As crates were randomly dropped, it made the checkpoint randomly placed.
But there, you just made 2 static checkpoints, which looks more like a w2w on a roper map.
Yeah I get what you mean, but how can we get rid of randomness (which means luck) when people think random cr8s are part of the scheme, I mean the cr8s give different checkpoints to a roper match, but they also deliver luck! We can't possibly make a scheme without luck where random events are part of the scheme. If you look at other schemes the most luck happens because of unpredictable random events which have a huge impact. Team17, Ropers, Shoppers. BnG, Elite and RR have none to minimum random events. BnG and Elite have wind as a luck factor, but they are not that often critical as there are different options to do the same, or even do better attacks that are not affected by wind. cr8 drops are always critical to the game as they are build around these schemes. So the vital part of these schemes is, more or less, luck.
The only solution so far that I have thought of by keeping the current W:A Roper rules are simplified/pre-made maps where the best ropers can do any cr8 + attack.
Another thing that I brainstormed were the motivation in ropers. Currently with the official W:A Roper scheme the motivation is always the rule Crate Before Attack. But there are situations in a W:A Roper scheme where this rule is counterproductive. For example a worm with 50 HP left and a Worm with 200HP left. The Worm with 200 HP should just attack the other worm, instead he has to collect a cr8 even though the player doesn't need any extra HP . This lead me to w2 ropers where you can, in such situations, just shoot your opponent.
In my opinion the roper scheme is one of the most unfair schemes currently being used. It always has been but noone really cared that much, me included. The scheme is unbalanced.
First of all I think the 2 Islands we rope on should be mirrored, there shouldn't be an advantage when you hide left island or right island. Most BnG Maps are built to have even hides on both sides. There used to be a time where this wasn't the case.
Another thing is that each turn should, in theory, have the same difficult, except for the price of shelter for attacks. For example top hiding should be rewarded with easier turns but on the other side you should receive more damage.
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nobody brainstormed in my post, i was just ripped up.. told how "classis ropers should not be changed" and changing the scheme is silly, we should just play on maps like we did 28 years ago...
but sure, now we all want to brainstorm, im in...
i do not agree with this scheme, like somone said.. it sounds too much like a wxw, on a roper map... but, maybe we can brainstorm somthing else, sure
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I know of no map that has just 1 island (except some w2 rope maps) or 3 islands.
I did many.
Anyway, my problem with your scheme is that it destroys all of the roper interest:
As crates were randomly dropped, it made the checkpoint randomly placed.
But there, you just made 2 static checkpoints, which looks more like a w2w on a roper map.
Yeah I get what you mean, but how can we get rid of randomness (which means luck) when people think random cr8s are part of the scheme, I mean the cr8s give different checkpoints to a roper match, but they also deliver luck! We can't possibly make a scheme without luck where random events are part of the scheme. If you look at other schemes the most luck happens because of unpredictable random events which have a huge impact. Team17, Ropers, Shoppers. BnG, Elite and RR have none to minimum random events. BnG and Elite have wind as a luck factor, but they are not that often critical as there are different options to do the same, or even do better attacks that are not affected by wind. cr8 drops are always critical to the game as they are build around these schemes. So the vital part of these schemes is, more or less, luck.
The only solution so far that I have thought of by keeping the current W:A Roper rules are simplified/pre-made maps where the best ropers can do any cr8 + attack.
Another thing that I brainstormed were the motivation in ropers. Currently with the official W:A Roper scheme the motivation is always the rule Crate Before Attack. But there are situations in a W:A Roper scheme where this rule is counterproductive. For example a worm with 50 HP left and a Worm with 200HP left. The Worm with 200 HP should just attack the other worm, instead he has to collect a cr8 even though the player doesn't need any extra HP . This lead me to w2 ropers where you can, in such situations, just shoot your opponent.
In my opinion the roper scheme is one of the most unfair schemes currently being used. It always has been but noone really cared that much, me included. The scheme is unbalanced.
First of all I think the 2 Islands we rope on should be mirrored, there shouldn't be an advantage when you hide left island or right island. Most BnG Maps are built to have even hides on both sides. There used to be a time where this wasn't the case.
Another thing is that each turn should, in theory, have the same difficult, except for the price of shelter for attacks. For example top hiding should be rewarded with easier turns but on the other side you should receive more damage.
i agree with most of this, i dont really care for the mirror map idea... sounds boring... i really think if you want to do something, we need to eliminate cr8 rules... its the only way to eliminate *most of the luck* and the only way to elimnate cr8 rules.. is to alter the scheme a bit, obviously u can not have 10 second retreat because whats the point of getting cr8 first at all? but that just leads back into my idea a bit... so i dont know
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So I found the solution about the randomness on the roper scheme.
Let's start:
First of all, the scheme has to drop a crate every 2 turns.
Those crates give simply 0 hp.
Raise a bit the hp of the worms.
So now we set everything, there is the point:
The first crate drops: it's the checkpoint.
The first player must collect the crate, attack, and then go hide.
The second player (who has no crate dropped), must go to the last checkpoint (which is just the last cratepoint) before being able to attack.
Then another crate is dropped.
The first player collect, etc...
And it's all over again.
So both players has the same crates/checkpoints to reach before being able to attack.
This way, the most skilled player will win. :)
If you understood, what do you think about it ?
PS: I'd like to attach a replay, but I really don't know how to make the scheme drop a crate every 2 turns.
Maybe I could find, but too bored to do this. :roll:
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Abnaxus, afaik there is no option to let a crate drop once every x turns. If you set crate probability to 50%, it can still be "crate - crate - no crate - no crate" etc. :/
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Use Anubis idea with the checkpoints and no crates, when the game starts each player starts in the middle checkpoint, each player should use their 1st turn as some sort of competition to decide who gets to take the 1st turn, for example who can go wall to wall then back to the middle checkpoint the fastest.
That player should get 1st turn.
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What DarK said, but we thought about a new idea. We have even given it a name already. It's called Hit&Rope.
The rules are changed:
- attack before crate. (you don't have to inflict dmg, just shoot a weapon before you are allowed to collect a cr8)
- turntimer is set to 12, retreat time is set to 12.
- if you collect a cr8 before attack you are not allowed to attack.
The idea is, that the better you rope the harder it is for you opponent to hit you.
Me and DarK had a few tests and it is really a real fun scheme, it's a direct duel between 2 ropers. If you rope better the opponent will feel it by having less time to attack you. Good turns will have a real impact on your opponent. the cr8 is not a must have, but usually it's in your favor.
Just see yourself.
Harder maps seem to work better for this scheme. :)
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afaik there is no option to let a crate drop once every x turns.
Let's ask it to Deadcode for the next patch ? :)
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I think it would require that new scheme format which they've been talking about.. But can still ask, yeah. :)
Anyway I'm pretty positive about Hit&Rope, it's a lot of fun and a direct skill competition.. Feedback welcome. :P
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Look's quite good, i'll have a shot later :)
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Abnax.. Ur idea at first thot sounded great.. But now that i thought about it..not su much.. The person that gets the cr8 first has a huge advantage bcuz then he knows exactly where to hide to make it as diffiuclt as possible to attack... The second play will not have that option of knowing where to hide.. Otherwise i would say it was a great idea... And anubis... I really cant see how 12 second retrat is going to be better.. For me.. The biggest problem in current rope is the 10 second retrat.. But im at work now.. I dont really understand the concept.. When i get home id like to have some games.. Maybe me, u, darkz and shyguy can get together and brainstorm like darkz suggests... I really do think its time to evolve the roping scheme.. If people dont think w2roper is the answer.. Thenlets get together and find out what is... See u when i gret home.. Btw im on celly now.. Just figured out i can access tus forums from it.. Pretty neat :)
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Sure avi, we will have some games and just make a perfect scheme. :)
Off-Topic: We could just download gundam and play roper there and make it the only legal map for TuS. xD
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One question about hit&rope: what if someone attacks, but does not manage to get the crate? What's the penalty? (I suggest dealing fall damage to him/herself next turn, because the opponent will be able to restore his/her lost HP by picking up 2 crates [for example, player1 does 47 mine/nade dmg, but fails to collect the crate (200-153), then player2 does 47 mine/nade dmg, and collects 2x20=40 hp (153-193), then player1 does 47 mine/nade dmg, collects one crate, and does 7 fd to him/herself (166-146), so it's like player1 collected the crate first turn, but done no damage (due to cowing)])
Huh.
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There is no penalty, leaving the crate for the opponent is bad enough. ;)
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Like Dark said, the only penalty in this scheme is not to deal dmg to a worm if you collect a cr8 before using a weapon. So far there have been no problems with this, there are very uncommon events where a cr8 is in the way of a turn, and usually a skilled roper can get around the cr8.
I am confident enough to say that this scheme is ready for public already. Thinking of hosting a Cup anytime soon to get more feedback.
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D: again...
there is roper scheme sense in crates, also like in 15 seconds etc. this is no roper scheme at all. we already have w2roper as 2nd scheme, lets do 3rd! someting like AnuRoper xD.
told ya many times, removing crates its like removing crates from t17 or adding to elite/inter...
u do TOO many modifications... TOO many... if u want replace roper scheme with this, dont do so big chenges...
i said before, that just too big pros scared to death of loosing player that have less skills but more luck.
hard to get far crate? this is not luck. just not enough skills probably. i will show u it again! at 5:40.
P.S. new pol?
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Error, you do realize you're talking to Anubis here right?
Edit: Also lol at rant by random guy. xD
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Lol.. Who broght the toolbox to the forums?
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yes i do... sounds like "do u realise u r talking to god"...
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Your not talking to a god, but when I saw that replay I definately want to be able to rope like that again. Give my kb nooooow! :( Really can't await it anymore. :)
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anubis, im home now and watched replay... its very boring to watch... i would imagine the same to play, but i could be wrong... but heres what i think...
after u attack... u have 12 seconds to get cr8, then hide.... so the worm u hit is roughly in the same area u started your retreat from... he does not have to get cr8, he just has to go directly to you and hit... so unless your playing a newb, he has 100% chance to attack considering he has a direct root (does not need to collect a cr8... ) then it just repeats all game.. IMO this does not add much to the game... makes attacking simple, and the game boring.. so now instead of luck, the game is just based on who gets more 47hp hits, or who gets FD? or depends if someone falls at some point in the game??...
im just curious what u guys dont like about w2roping... i have to be honest, not one person gave me a good reason to not liking it.. i have seen alot of "dont change roper, its a classic scheme" and... "changing the scheme will not improve roping, we need to play on easier maps" and... "wtf? u suck avi, im not even going to try this scheme, cuz u have designer shades, and think ur cooler then me"
my opinion: w2roper = limited cr8 luck(as long as cr8s will drop, there will be luck), strategy, and skill.... so whats not to like anubis? whats your reasoning on not liking it exactly?
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i just wanna say that comunity dont accept so big changes... mb few small... and 50% of poll isnt so good as u think, good is 70-80.
loosing in roper in luck reason is a part of scheme (scheme that have luck factor), dont try to change it, just let ur good skill owns ur bad luck.
also there are no 2 players with same skills, always someone is better... and if u loosing, u go home and train till death. xd
cheers
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Error, in all honesty and sorry to sound rude here, but someone with your roping skills doesn't know what it's like to get crate raped.
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anubis, im home now and watched replay... its very boring to watch... i would imagine the same to play, but i could be wrong... but heres what i think...
after u attack... u have 12 seconds to get cr8, then hide.... so the worm u hit is roughly in the same area u started your retreat from... he does not have to get cr8, he just has to go directly to you and hit... so unless your playing a newb, he has 100% chance to attack considering he has a direct root (does not need to collect a cr8... ) then it just repeats all game.. IMO this does not add much to the game... makes attacking simple, and the game boring.. so now instead of luck, the game is just based on who gets more 47hp hits, or who gets FD? or depends if someone falls at some point in the game??...
im just curious what u guys dont like about w2roping... i have to be honest, not one person gave me a good reason to not liking it.. i have seen alot of "dont change roper, its a classic scheme" and... "changing the scheme will not improve roping, we need to play on easier maps" and... "wtf? u suck avi, im not even going to try this scheme, cuz u have designer shades, and think ur cooler then me"
my opinion: w2roper = limited cr8 luck(as long as cr8s will drop, there will be luck), strategy, and skill.... so whats not to like anubis? whats your reasoning on not liking it exactly?
I voted no because I think it's not really a difference, the same problems remain. And I still don't understand why you removed destructable land, explain plz. ^^
But yea w2roper is better than W:Aroper. It's just not the complete solution and we could work something better out, dunno or maybe that's as good as it can get. :D
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error, ur posts do not add much to this conversation...
why would u want to continue with scheme that allow luck, if there are ways to improve them, so luck is not as much of a factor?
its time W:A evolves!
oh and let me just say this one thing.. its a bit off topic but...
in worms2, there was a league.. when people wanted to play league, the higher rank player of the 2 was awarded hosting rights (if he was able to host) then he would host the game with his roper settings and say "FD100, 1 cow, 1 dyno, 1 para, 5 zooks at 55, unlime mine, nade 12 second 5 retreat" and you has no choice but to accept these settings, and try your best to win the game... some people used 2 worms, some people used 1 worms... IRwlz was one of the few who used 3 worms... but my point is... you had to adjust to it in that game.. and its not like its very hard to do.... so why are you complaining about 2 rope schemes now? in w2 it was 100 different rope schemes lol
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darKz, ye but... but u will not listenin to me again... xd
too all: ye, i even know why... xd
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I voted no because I think it's not really a difference, the same problems remain. And I still don't understand why you removed destructable land, explain plz. ^^
But yea w2roper is better than W:Aroper. It's just not the complete solution and we could work something better out, dunno or maybe that's as good as it can get. :D
anubis, my goal was not to exactly duplicate w2 roping onto w:a... i was just looking for a scheme that would reduce the luck of cr8s.. (obviously as long as cr8s drop, there will be a luck factor.. point blank) but i do think w2roping reduces the luck factor greatly...
the main reason i did not put destructable land was because i was trying to make a scheme that not only reduces the luck, but also something w:a would accept... the people on this game are very very very narrow minded... it was like pulling teeth to get people to even try my scheme anubis.. me and shyguy spent over a week just hosting the game for people to come and try it out...
some people even voted no without trying the scheme... its sickening how they are :)
i just felt that with destructable land, it would be even harder for them to accept.. there was other lil features we talked about adding to the scheme as well, but had to take into consideration the community, and how scared they are of change.
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error, ur posts do not add much to this conversation...
why would u want to continue with scheme that allow luck, if there are ways to improve them, so luck is not as much of a factor?
its time W:A evolves!
oh and let me just say this one thing.. its a bit off topic but...
in worms2, there was a league.. when people wanted to play league, the higher rank player of the 2 was awarded hosting rights (if he was able to host) then he would host the game with his roper settings and say "FD100, 1 cow, 1 dyno, 1 para, 5 zooks at 55, unlime mine, nade 12 second 5 retreat" and you has no choice but to accept these settings, and try your best to win the game... some people used 2 worms, some people used 1 worms... IRwlz was one of the few who used 3 worms... but my point is... you had to adjust to it in that game.. and its not like its very hard to do.... so why are you complaining about 2 rope schemes now? in w2 it was 100 different rope schemes lol
Yeah I remember that, I think I liked the 1v1 schemes, 55 unlimited zook. (zooking was kickass in w2 because the wind was never changing like in W:A at least you could change it to that)!
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I voted no because I think it's not really a difference, the same problems remain. And I still don't understand why you removed destructable land, explain plz. ^^
But yea w2roper is better than W:Aroper. It's just not the complete solution and we could work something better out, dunno or maybe that's as good as it can get. :D
anubis, my goal was not to exactly duplicate w2 roping onto w:a... i was just looking for a scheme that would reduce the luck of cr8s.. (obviously as long as cr8s drop, there will be a luck factor.. point blank) but i do think w2roping reduces the luck factor greatly...
the main reason i did not put destructable land was because i was trying to make a scheme that not only reduces the luck, but also something w:a would accept... the people on this game are very very very narrow minded... it was like pulling teeth to get people to even try my scheme anubis.. me and shyguy spent over a week just hosting the game for people to come and try it out...
some people even voted no without trying the scheme... its sickening how they are :)
i just felt that with destructable land, it would be even harder for them to accept.. there was other lil features we talked about adding to the scheme as well, but had to take into consideration the community, and how scared they are of change.
Well I see where you come from, and I agree with it, I definately would love to have almost the same scheme just like in w2. I think it would work out even better, even add at least the dynamite and more fd (I think that's possible nowadays?). Destructible land is important to have the full joy from this scheme. Most aspects in the W:A Roper scheme suck. Def needs change OR simplified maps. (yeah still gundam lol) xDDD
Edit: Doublepost... nice. :x
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the people on this game are very very very narrow minded...
Avi man, you are a bit ignorant & arrogant, it's not this game that's narrow minded, online gaming in general, heck i'd go as far as to say it's the whole damn planet, whoopdee-doo, deal with it, people like what they like, it's up to you to talk them into changing their minds, and you done a pretty damn good job of it at 1st even getting that amount of votes, so be proud of that...
I bet a few people voted No, just due to the fact the way you were ranting on about people being lame for not trying it etc.
Normals ropers have been perfect if not due to crate rape, this is the ONLY thing which people complain about, yet at the same time, it's the crates that make the game fun, having to collect them before you attack, 1 solution is, without a doubt, to chill out with the maps we play on, you CANNOT deny that this works, because it does, and we ALL know it, however, I understand how some of you might find that boring, fair enough you are entitled to your opinions.
The w2Roper scheme doesn't fit well either, so obviously we need a brainstorm, the answer is possibly and probably will be something SO simple we gonna slap ourselves straight in the chops when we eventually stumble across it, and it has to be something that will work on ALL kinds of maps to suit EVERYONES preference.
I really like Anubis/darKz idea with the attack then collect crate and hide, except the times are wrong I think, it looks too easy and still has a slight advantage to the person who shoots 1st and as avirex said could possibly get a bit boring, and avirex and Shyguys idea with their scheme of w2Roper is also a great idea, except it still has crate rape issues, I think a combination of both of these could be quite nice...
For example:
We definately have to have crates...
So an idea i'm thinking is lower the amount of health that is in crates, for example make it 10hp, BUT put the starting health up to 300, because of lower health, but higher starting health, 1st player doesn't have a huge advantage.
Use the w2Roper basis where you have a choice to collect crate and attack, OR attack and collect crate, or attack and leave crate, so even if the crates are easy all game, it's not THAT big a deal as it's only 10hp, and 1st person to shoot isn't THAT big of a deal as you start with 300 and someone who is more consistent SHOULD win.
Now, stick with 12s turntime, and use make the retreat time 7s, with 7s retreat time this makes it possible to get harder crates after attacking, IF you are a very good roper.
Now, I was thinking, we should add something else, another rule, the crates are optional in any way possible, SO, this is my brainstorm of an idea, take ALL of this into account, now, if you choose to collect the crate THEN attack, do so, however if you want to attack before collecting the crate, you must touch the ROOF before being able to attack, if you say touch a wall, too easy if you are on that side, could be too much for some people if in the middle, but if you touch the roof, at least you are doing SOMETHING with the rope, without collecting 1st, to be able to attack, and you can still try to get your crate afterwards.
So, in as short words as possible, here is my scheme suggestion:
12s Turntime, 7s Retreat time, 300hp Starting HP, 10hp Crates, choice of collecting crate before or after attack, if you choose to attack before collecting crate, you MUST touch the roof before being able to attack, all weapons the same as Original roper scheme, and zook 1st as always.
What do you think, and if you don't like it, please criticise in a reasonable fashion...
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Sounds good, as usual it has to be tested. But I don't think that Hit&Rope is boring, it's a really dynamic scheme when you play it. :)
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I made a mistake, 318 starting HP sorry lol.
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Here's a replay of what you suggested, played very fluent. I forgot to set 10HP cr8s and more HP though, but it didn't really make a difference. Game lasted long and was never boring. I sucked at the beginning though. xD
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If anyone can persuade Deadcode/CyberShadow to make so we could have 2 consecutive crates falling at the exact same spot -> no more crate rape. (That's almost like abnaxus' idea of "crate every 2nd turn = checkpoint", it would only look at bit nicer). Add the ability for the starting player to have 45 less health at start and vóila, all the problems of the roper scheme are solved :)
So darkz, if you're going to talk to Deadcode, maybe you should mention this.
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Here's a replay of what you suggested, played very fluent. I forgot to set 10HP cr8s and more HP though, but it didn't really make a difference. Game lasted long and was never boring. I sucked at the beginning though. xD
It does though, try it the way I said, make the scheme 255hp, and put +hp on both worms, it's really ufn playing it now with shui :D
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komo, i was actually being nice, and trying too cooperate with everyone, and u still flame me??? wait? what did i say? w:a is stubborn and narrow minded?... hmmm... maybe cuz it is??? people voted no, without even trying my scheme.. u know how much that pissed me off? thats why i got mad, and yes.. i went farther then i should have.. and now im trying to turn that behavior around, and ur still going to flame me? cool guy you are!!
now.. like i said time and time again, nobody once gave a reason why my scheme is not good... not one person gave a reasoning behind it... all i have heard is "dont change the classic roper" heard that from you too komo, but now u come hear with idea identical to my w2 roping? but u have to rope up and touch the roof first? this is outrageous.
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If anyone can persuade Deadcode/CyberShadow to make so we could have 2 consecutive crates falling at the exact same spot -> no more crate rape. (That's almost like abnaxus' idea of "crate every 2nd turn = checkpoint", it would only look at bit nicer). Add the ability for the starting player to have 45 less health at start and vóila, all the problems of the roper scheme are solved :)
So darkz, if you're going to talk to Deadcode, maybe you should mention this.
u may not have read my post couple pages back rok.. at first i thought that would be a great idea (abnaxus mentioned it first) but then when i thought about it, its a horrible idea... it gives player 1 the option of knowing the hardest/farthest point from the cr8... and obviously he is going to hide there.... worm 2 does not have that option his hide will be strictly pratying ofr hard cr8s once again :D
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Avi, what? I said you were a bit ignorant and arrogant, which you are considering I have to tell you this again, in the same paragraph I complimented you, so don't even THINK about saying I am flaming you...
And I have already gave a proper explanation why I don't like your w2Rope scheme, if you can't remember it, or didn't bother to read it correctly in the right thread about it, well, tough luck, your problem, not mine.
I always said I liked your scheme anyway, and that I just prefer Normal ropers.
Please, in future, READ.
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u may not have read my post couple pages back rok.. at first i thought that would be a great idea (abnaxus mentioned it first) but then when i thought about it, its a horrible idea... it gives player 1 the option of knowing the hardest/farthest point from the cr8... and obviously he is going to hide there.... worm 2 does not have that option his hide will be strictly pratying ofr hard cr8s once again :D
You'd only need one new rule: Hide where the opponent was hiding at the start of your turn. Not a perfect solution because it takes away even the last bit of strategy that exists in roper and it may not work for 2v2 games. But the point is, the crates would be equaly good/bad for both sides.
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If anyone can persuade Deadcode/CyberShadow to make so we could have 2 consecutive crates falling at the exact same spot -> no more crate rape. (That's almost like abnaxus' idea of "crate every 2nd turn = checkpoint", it would only look at bit nicer). Add the ability for the starting player to have 45 less health at start and vóila, all the problems of the roper scheme are solved :)
So darkz, if you're going to talk to Deadcode, maybe you should mention this.
u may not have read my post couple pages back rok.. at first i thought that would be a great idea (abnaxus mentioned it first) but then when i thought about it, its a horrible idea... it gives player 1 the option of knowing the hardest/farthest point from the cr8... and obviously he is going to hide there.... worm 2 does not have that option his hide will be strictly pratying ofr hard cr8s once again :D
What Rok said. :)
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but then, what if somone falls at top, should u be penalized, and have to hide where he hide/fell? i just dont think that scheme would work out tbh.
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komo, i think ur idea of touching the top if u dont get cr8 is fine... however i do think its pointless.. because almost any roper can go touch the top and make a hit without even the slightest problem.. so it just becomes a pointless thing in my eyes more then anything...
i dont see the point of the 7 seconds tho... what was wrong with 5? if u do not get cr8 b4 u hit, u should have very little time to go after it... as it is, with 5 seconds i can make it pretty far.... like, if im at the top of map, and toss a 2 second nade, i may not get a perfect hit, but i will get a hit and i can still make a good distance to get a cr8... but with 7 i think i can make damn near across the map...
keep in mind im trying to brainstorm, not cut ur idea up..
1more thing komo, u said im arrogant and ignorant because i said w:a is close minded... well anubis agreed with me... is he a n@#!!! too? :p
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Well over the years I have obtained the skill to see things with more than just my eyes. I support good ideas and I am the last to boycott your scheme if I think it's good.
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komo, i think ur idea of touching the top if u dont get cr8 is fine... however i do think its pointless.. because almost any roper can go touch the top and make a hit without even the slightest problem.. so it just becomes a pointless thing in my eyes more then anything...
i dont see the point of the 7 seconds tho... what was wrong with 5? if u do not get cr8 b4 u hit, u should have very little time to go after it... as it is, with 5 seconds i can make it pretty far.... like, if im at the top of map, and toss a 2 second nade, i may not get a perfect hit, but i will get a hit and i can still make a good distance to get a cr8... but with 7 i think i can make damn near across the map...
keep in mind im trying to brainstorm, not cut ur idea up..
1more thing komo, u said im arrogant and ignorant because i said w:a is close minded... well anubis agreed with me... is he a n@#!!! too? :p
I put 7s because crates are only 10hp, you want to get the crates but then again don't really have to all the time, I know the roof thing is kind of pointless, just makes it more interesting I think, that you have to do SOMETHING to attack...