First of all, watch this game (https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-67940/), while it's just an example you'll easily see what I'm on about - plopping own worms in Hysteria forcing the opponent to do the same and create a "late game situation" in just 2 minutes. I think it's a major flaw in the whole concept of the scheme, it was meant to be played with 4 worms, yet the number of worms used doesn't mean a thing it seems.. Just brought this up to hear some thoughts on the matter.
It's your own decision if you plop your worms - an obviously stupid decision of course, since the turn advantage situations can be defended easily. It's silly, people should start realizing that soon enough.
EDIT: now I'm seeing that I was talking against my clan. :-[ ;D I didn't check the link before I posted... but yea, my opinion doesn't change.
I'm not talking about whether it's stupid or not stupid, I'm just saying I don't think Hysteria was meant to be played that way and we could basically just play it 1vs1 worm. Well not 1vs1 but you get what I mean.
I get what you mean. But I think, if you play well enough, place your worms well enough, then plopping your own worms becomes absolutely senseless and tactically suicidal, it's like killing your own worm at Elite, very very rarely it comes handy...
By the way, I did watch the replay, take a look, at the end, it comes down to simple Hysteria, so I doubt it gave the winners any advantage overally speaking.
This is like the early days of "telecow". ;D Soon all the beginners will start speaking about "plopcow". :-X
i played hysteria with Thouson 2 days ago.
When the game start its normal i put some worms in darkside to get other nice hide.
Thouson does "plopcow" to do next time a telecow, coz he could cant take my worm from darkside.
I stayed too >:( >:( >:( and Thouson said me "its hysteria, not bng".
sure there a times when you can plop your own worm if you really want to,
but don't make it sound like that is the only option if the other team does it first.
there are always different strategies, and that is only one of them.
adapt, and find out what works best for you :]
DING DING DING, NEWS FLASH!
Hysteria blows and sucks (as a league scheme). That's my personal opinion, now flame and smite....
@darkz: Sorry, I have nothing useful to add, I agree with you completely. :)
yeah, what rok said.
I dont really enjoy hysteria (due to the monkey business when it comes to the final worm) yet dont agree it shouldnt be a league scheme. It is enjoyed by many and it is one of the least luck dependant schemes.
add a supersheep on a 10 turn delay, will make the scheme better!
and/or
a select worm, tricky to pull off but possible.
Ive tried hyst with both of these changes and its far better. Greatly reduces the madness at the end which gets very boring.
I remember I used to hate the scheme, mainly because the players who started playing the game after me mostly started Hysteria way before me and they could kick my ass and I didn't like that. :D
But now I think I kind of figured it out, I don't say I really like it now... but I don't find it as bad as I used to.
I think some of you got me wrong, this is not a complaint thread and I'm not posting this because we lost a Hysteria, it's just an example of how to make a Hysteria game very boring and really not enjoyable. Imo it's just as lame as T17 with inf girders and BLOCKBLOCKBLOCK-action. But we found a simple solution for T17, so.. :P
doesnt rly work all the time, i remember dub used to do this when he was learning hysteria but he didnt rly pull it out mostly its just another tactic u can use.
mb jetpack and tele reduced to ammo 9
lol
kill yourself is very bad if enemy can place worms in top, and hav a nice aim, to hit every turn...
i would put select worms... not weapon, i mean the starting one
Quote from: darKz on May 08, 2011, 09:45 PM
I think some of you got me wrong, this is not a complaint thread and I'm not posting this because we lost a Hysteria,
Of course you posted it because you lost it
:P
i think then we need to change something too >:(
Adapt it - so I have same opinion as franz.
ofc there are ppl - obv bored of this scheme or just scares the opponent(s) - which could doing this all time. But well, longterm better hysterian will win the series. ;d
I dont think hysteria needs any changes. :)
But I also agreeing to darkeli. It destroys the game!
This is a part of hysteria, a small piece of tactics that can be used on this scheme.
Personally, everytime i try to win without use telecows, and i consider the action of teleporting worms in water only to use telecow a little bit stupid. A worm can be useful in different manners, first to be killed :)
I agree to you SPW, the telepop is extremely efficient, but only at the first time. Next time a good player can contrast efficacy it simply doing.... SECRET! :D
btw some players abuse of telecows (no - for me is not teletatic, is teleCOW).
Telecow is a part of hysteria? Ok, I agree.
However, some players kill 2 or 3 / 4 opponent's worms only using the f8.
Why in BnG we cant to use granade 5 secs no bounce? Coz is too easy to shot ur opponent. Its lame. Like telecow. Its too easy to do.
Quote from: Professor on May 09, 2011, 06:54 PM
Why in BnG we cant to use granade 5 secs no bounce? Coz is too easy to shot ur opponent. Its lame. Like telecow. Its too easy to do.
It is because you think hysteria is 1-sec BnG :)
Hysteria is
NOT about who can do a better
shot in 1 sec. It is the best
move in 1 sec.
PLEASE refrain from calling it telecow.
Tactics in Elite or Team17 have riped over the years, people got better and better at using strategic petrol/girder blocks, taking advantage of having less worms left, tossing grenades, doing good rope turns, aim for plops with dyna/mines etc etc. On the contrary you can hardly say Hysteria has evolved since it's basically got no strategy. At least I don't wanna acknowledge plopping own worms to gain an edge as a valid strategy.
Also, in other schemes there's no such thing as a shortcut to the late game, while in Hysteria there is..
Just trying to make you guys think a little and maybe come up with a great idea to make the scheme more enjoyable in leagues. :P
I imagine a bestest move something like a nice zooka with wind or a nade 3 secs perfect in opponent worm.
Press f8 and put ur worm above other worm that cant move befor u sure is not a bestest move.
Do u like to watch a video with "telecows: the 1000 bestest moves from hysteria" ?
Sorry, i prefer a game played with skill.
I accept 1 telecow in a fail mine. However, telecow everytime is lame sirs.
Dont come with 'telecows' Cesar. Its ridiculous saying its lame cos its not! Its a simple move/tatic. So is ploping worms.
some think hysteria is not fun cos it, but some think hysteria is fun just for it. No games are end till the last worm dies. THATS HYSTERIA.
No changes is need.
ok when i ll do telecow in u dont complaint xuxa xD
Quote from: Professor on May 09, 2011, 07:48 PM
ok when i ll do telecow in u dont complaint xuxa xD
you won't be the first ( nor the last) one. And Be sure, you will lose anyway, Muahuha
Quote from: Camper on May 09, 2011, 07:50 PM
Quote from: Professor on May 09, 2011, 07:48 PM
ok when i ll do telecow in u dont complaint xuxa xD
you won't be the first ( nor the last) one. And Be sure, you will lose anyway, Muahuha
lies or dreams? 8)
Quote from: Professor on May 09, 2011, 07:51 PM
Quote from: Camper on May 09, 2011, 07:50 PM
Quote from: Professor on May 09, 2011, 07:48 PM
ok when i ll do telecow in u dont complaint xuxa xD
you won't be the first ( nor the last) one. And Be sure, you will lose anyway, Muahuha
life or dreams? 8)
its the life ;x
btw its like some guys tell here: adapt it.
The big problem in start, when ur worms is so far and u lose 1 - 4 turns to replace it.
If teleport was limited to 9, ppl would think better about the "f8 move".
Look, if you feel like playing BnG with petrols, shotguns, flamethrowers, etc., then make a scheme named "Extended BnG". Hysteria is NOT BnG (although I love them both).
And by the way... We've had this argument like... 4 or 5 times before? Why go back on the same topic again and again and again and again and again and...
Quote from: Professor on May 09, 2011, 08:09 PM
btw its like some guys tell here: adapt it.
The big problem in start, when ur worms is so far and u lose 1 - 4 turns to replace it.
If teleport was limited to 9, ppl would think better about the "f8 move".
You are wrong here dude. If your opponent is doing a plop-port in first turn, just plop your worm also or teleport close enough to your upcoming worm. Then you must repeat this as long your (weak) playing opponent continues. And now you see the point? Its a good tactic if you are sure, your opponent doesnt know what to do then. But its a weak one, if your opponent is able to adapt it. It just makes game shorter and it ends in a 2v2 or 1v1 situation. So if you see urself behind from beginning, cause not favourite, then you may do this as well, just to get (maybe) more chances to win the game.
In the end: Its a) weak or b) lame. There is no c) ^^
btw: tp's limited to 9 dont help since you have only 4 worms ;) Not in that case at least.
hmmm i understood SPW...
But... Let me see... Plop urself at game start only to kill 1 worm opponent...
I think that is lame and too silliness xDDDDDD
I think the main problem with turn advantage in hysteria is that it evens the playing field for pretty much everyone, noobs and pros alike, in the same way that KTL ensures a 3-way roper stays even. There's almost no way that it won't get down to 1v1 or 2v1 if two decent players are playing; no amount of skill will allow you to get much of a lead. Hysteria's okay, but I'm not all that interested in it since most other schemes have a wider range of skill.
Quote from: Mablak on May 09, 2011, 10:15 PM
I think the main problem with turn advantage in hysteria is that it evens the playing field for pretty much everyone, noobs and pros alike, in the same way that KTL ensures a 3-way roper stays even. There's almost no way that it won't get down to 1v1 or 2v1 if two decent players are playing; no amount of skill will allow you to get much of a lead. Hysteria's okay, but I'm not all that interested in it since most other schemes have a wider range of skill.
agreed, but it still is a fun game for me :P
Quote from: Mablak on May 09, 2011, 10:15 PM
I think the main problem with turn advantage in hysteria is that it evens the playing field for pretty much everyone, noobs and pros alike, in the same way that KTL ensures a 3-way roper stays even. There's almost no way that it won't get down to 1v1 or 2v1 if two decent players are playing; no amount of skill will allow you to get much of a lead. Hysteria's okay, but I'm not all that interested in it since most other schemes have a wider range of skill.
And since this point is exactly the point I bring up myself whenever this kind of thread pops up, I will link to this cup (https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-125/) to provide an idea to mitigate this problem :) Makes turn order abuse more difficult at least, though it doesn't entirely abolish it.
The more players join, the better this idea can be tested!
vn sir! i ll join!
I played lot of different Hysteria styles, to be honest the fair way to me is:
People choose their hides when game begins.
Random turns dont works good because improve luck, but i played with selectable worm sometimes and it worked well, specially because you can avoid the telecows this way. The problem here is just about the 2v2 games, but for this i have no ideas, even the random order won't work in this case. The non-random placementes can make it works fine, or atleast better.
Maybe we should try this too :)
i played many games which the auto plop was a very bad idea... random turns is a good change, but when one player hav 1 worms, he can use turn advantage...so, is funny,but improve luck... selecting places isnt good coz games will tend to hav same style of start teles(like bng...side-side)
i think the flaws in hysteria is just a bad luck some bad luckers(like me) hav in start,when the bad lucker hav bad start possitions + bad turn sequences...
But this shits happens, all schemes hav something like this...
Can we have every "telecow" in this forum replaced by an image of a teleporting cow? Would that be possible? I really can't bear reading it all the time..
Yea me too.
Anyway, is this "telecowing" ... sigh .... definable? I mean instead on teleporting on-top-of/next-to opponents's worm, the player could teleport 20 pixel far from them, and still abuse the turn advantage.
Maybe limited teleports like 2 or 3 and a lower retreat time of jetpack can reduce this kind of "cow".
Quote from: Vultoz on May 29, 2011, 05:11 PM
Maybe limited teleports like 2 or 3 and a lower retreat time of jetpack can reduce this kind of "cow".
Why call something a cow which is perfectly legal and doesn't have anything to do with the animal... I don't get it. ::)
Quote from: darKz on May 29, 2011, 05:38 PM
Quote from: Vultoz on May 29, 2011, 05:11 PM
Maybe limited teleports like 2 or 3 and a lower retreat time of jetpack can reduce this kind of "cow".
Why call something a cow which is perfectly legal and doesn't have anything to do with the animal... I don't get it. ::)
agree...
2,3 teles is bad for telecides, and to make all the changes that are necessary in the game when u hav a really sucks start places
Quote from: Thouson on May 29, 2011, 05:47 PM
Quote from: darKz on May 29, 2011, 05:38 PM
Quote from: Vultoz on May 29, 2011, 05:11 PM
Maybe limited teleports like 2 or 3 and a lower retreat time of jetpack can reduce this kind of "cow".
Why call something a cow which is perfectly legal and doesn't have anything to do with the animal... I don't get it. ::)
agree...
2,3 teles is bad for telecides, and to make all the changes that are necessary in the game when u hav a really sucks start places
.........so maybe 5/6 only?
Nothing is changing in hysteria :)
People lose in schemes and try to alter it so that it suits their style of playing best.
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on May 30, 2011, 08:50 AM
People lose in schemes and try to alter it so that it suits their style of playing best.
You make it sound like I'm a crybaby even though I clearly said why I opened this thread...
I meant that completely in general. In fact I had forgotten who started the thread.
From what I've seen and experienced, schemes get invented and they change to suit community. It seems to me that it is not a specific person changing it, changes appear when enough part of the community try these changes, like it and accept it.
The great example of this is Roper scheme which had/have enough discussions and ideas how to improve it but still, the "community" seem to have its peace with the way Roper is now and doesn't want to change. (Even though many of these ideas may be good ones)
I've been thinking how Hysteria would be with tele-port rule. Such as teleporting to 30 pixel radius of your opponent would be illegal, but the way I imagined it, it created even more mess.
In general, you're right, mister Island, but I think it's quite obvious the teleport is overpowered in comparison to the other weapons.
However, turn order abuse is of course a valid tactic in hysteria. I don't think adding rules is the way to go, but a way to make the tactic perhaps a bit less powerful is something I advocate :)
ps: I've won more than I've lost in the hysteria cups I've played in ;)
i would not say my roper thread is a good comparison...
my idea of the scheme is how they were invented, and intended to by be the w2'ers who invented the sheme well b4 w:a was even invented, and it was the w2ers who even gave the the ropeing idea to w:a (for that cr8 grab time trial mission)
early day w:a community changed the scheme to suit the needs of them because they were all newbs (being the game was brand new) and since that time 10 years ago, no1 has been willing to alter the scheme to fit the current day of skill... pretty frustrating :D
trololo lollolo lollolo loo
huahauhauha just sayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyiinnnggg....
ill never be at ease as long as w:a is roping around with f@#!ing 25 second total turn time... makes me cringe :D
ehhh, lets just turn this into a w2roper thread... who cares about hysteria :D
Hysteria is teh best.
I've grown to hate the scheme to be honest. It's only enjoyable when not played for the win.