The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
All About TUS => TUS Discussion => Topic started by: NAiL on November 24, 2009, 12:25 AM
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12090
Now situations like these are examples why girders need to be unlimited.
I find that the only argument for limited girders in T17 is "stop blocking me".
T17 is like chess, in that you can either attack, move, or block.
Restriciting girders limits the amount of times you can choose to block, not good!
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unlimited ftw yea!
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I agree, I vote for unlimited!
Let's make a poll !!!
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yeh, pls make a poll and attach it here, i dont know how!
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Agreed..unlimited.
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Lol, whatever. I don't use TUS schemes. ;o
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Anybody who agreed on playing unlimited version, They can.
We already had a discussion about this, check out the topic I quoted from. :)
And as Monkey said: you play the scheme you want, either the unlimited version or the limited, it's up to you.
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unlimited.
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I find that the only argument for limited girders in T17 is "stop blocking me".
You named the most relevant argument for limited girders right there. Theoretically you could simply draw a game by blocking your opponent in every single turn.
I had a game vs Uzurpator yesterday (girders limited to 7) where i had to block him hard at the end and i was rly short on girders with my last worm and it was an absolute thriller! If i had had infinite girder in that game it would have been easy for me just to hold him off reaching me, but that way i had to decide on how many girders to spend to avoid him attacking me.
Im also a guy that usually sticks to conserve the way the schemes have been played since years but in this case i think it really benefits the gameplay.
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I disagree you can draw a game by blocking everyturn. You won't cause any damage and allow me to pick up more sd weapons, eventully you'll pick up weapons to attack with aswell and choose not to block.
I agree with umlimited griders for t17.
I also think the tus scheme has been editted. Me and crazy has noticed a difference on the cr8s and seems like you get ALOT of stronger weapons compared to FB scheme where there was medium strength and weaker weapons. Seems alot of games turn into 'attack attack attack'
Id really like TuS to just adopt the FB scheme as it has the right balance of cr8s and umlimited griders.
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Tell me guys, was the FB Team17 scheme different than those existing before it? For instance the very first T17 scheme?
And how about those arguments that came when those changes were made to the scheme which basically created FB scheme?
To be honest, I don't care that much about the T17 scheme, so I leave this debate for you guys, you are a lot more experienced in the scheme and in the game too. I just wanted to point out that changes were made also before the arrival of TUS, and it always splits the community. And maybe we should not stick to FB schemes that much, we shouldn't compare, we should create what's the best for everyone instead.
If that is FB scheme, then be it. :)
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Weird, i actually thought the TUS scheme was less "Boom boom" than the FB scheme... you get a lot of nanas and super weapons on the FB scheme. Thing i noticed was the lack of sudden death weapons in the TUS scheme, it seems to me that you get less on it than on the FB one, so i sticked to that.
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Weird, i actually thought the TUS scheme was less "Boom boom" than the FB scheme... you get a lot of nanas and super weapons on the FB scheme. Thing i noticed was the lack of sudden death weapons in the TUS scheme, it seems to me that you get less on it than on the FB one, so i sticked to that.
Yes same here. less "Boom boom" here too. xD
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Endless discussions, never ends... http://www.laene.nl/CE/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3475&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
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FB scheme was different from T17 league channel scheme as it didnt feature 1 worm select.
1 worm select was slowly removed from the scheme. All cr8s stayed the same etc, just this change i think.
worm select was cool because it gave you an option against a 1 vs 4 worm piling/grider block war.
But i feel the new cr8 chances on tus are some what lacking to old!
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Well i sorta cant count the time where i got owned by my opponent before sd coz he had 5 nanas, Sally's Army or so when using the FB scheme. Dont wanna complain about it tho... i still think its a good scheme, but some modifications would be appreciated.
Endless discussions, never ends... http://www.laene.nl/CE/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3475&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
True true hehe
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FB scheme was different from T17 league channel scheme as it didnt feature 1 worm select.
1 worm select was slowly removed from the scheme. All cr8s stayed the same etc, just this change i think.
worm select was cool because it gave you an option against a 1 vs 4 worm piling/grider block war.
But i feel the new cr8 chances on tus are some what lacking to old!
I don't remember u having a select worm! The only changes I can remember is that clusters were normal power for a little while, and ropes could be found in crates. Clusters were de-powered and ropes removed from crates.
Then 9 years later, girders were made 7 instead of infinite. :o
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I find that the only argument for limited girders in T17 is "stop blocking me".
You named the most relevant argument for limited girders right there. Theoretically you could simply draw a game by blocking your opponent in every single turn.
SG ne1? Aqua ne1? Homing ne1? SW ne1? Moving far away enough to prevent block ne1? Magic bullet ne1?
Counteracting TACTICS, with TACTICS is the name of the game when it comes to turn based strategy.
How many games have been won when girders are unlimited, an uncountable number.
If your argument was true, no T17 games would ever be won.
About the weps in the current tus scheme, I like em. Balanced.
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I find that the only argument for limited girders in T17 is "stop blocking me".
You named the most relevant argument for limited girders right there. Theoretically you could simply draw a game by blocking your opponent in every single turn.
SG ne1? Aqua ne1? Homing ne1? SW ne1? Moving far away enough to prevent block ne1? Magic bullet ne1?
Counteracting TACTICS, with TACTICS is the name of the game when it comes to turn based strategy.
How many games have been won when girders are unlimited, an uncountable number.
If your argument was true, no T17 games would ever be won.
About the weps in the current tus scheme, I like em. Balanced.
i agree with all ur lines expect the last
the current tus scheme it sooooooooo unbalanced. its just hhg, flamie, minigun, longbow, old woman, sheep launcher............
there isnt enough shit weapons. These change the tactics of a game.. at the moment its just pure aggression. ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK..
players who remember the alternative schemes to tus agree with me here.
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Omg so much talks about this lucky scheme.
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The ones who talk the most have the least to say.
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the current tus scheme it sooooooooo unbalanced. its just hhg, flamie, minigun, longbow, old woman, sheep launcher............
there isnt enough shit weapons. These change the tactics of a game.. at the moment its just pure aggression. ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK..
players who remember the alternative schemes to tus agree with me here.
I played the AL, FB, XTS and TUS schemes.
Honestly I cant remember what the differences where like, although im almost certain crate chances weren't that much different.
What do you mean by shit weps? Handgun, uzi, grenades, clusters etc?
I get these weps along with better ones in almost every T17 I play.
Your a good T17er, you know that even if you get a "good" wep, its only useful to you in the right circumstances. You dont usually use a granny as soon as you get one, or any other "good" wep for that matter. You use your weps when an opportunity arises, when you can get the most bang for your buck.
If both players have the same chances of getting the same weapons then there isn't a problem.
I dont think you've played enough T17's with the TUS scheme to come to that decision. Its also a very subjective opinion as for every game you could show me (uisng the TUS scheme) thats "all aggression" as you say, I could find you a replay where ive had "shit" weps and have had to play extra defensive.
It all comes down to luck on the day, and as you know getting "good" weps does not automatically secure a win, or lead to attacking every turn. Thats what the girders are for, thats why we darkside worms and wait for good opportunities to attack.
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i have noticed in my games getting more weapons like hhg, minigun, flamie, longbow, than picking up weapons like mines, grenades, moles, clusters, mortors, uzi's.
Maybe thats me being lucky, ive been playing alot of t17's recently and both myself and my opponents have had such weapons... The only times ive had to use darkside tactics is due to picking up powerful sd weapons.. Not getting shit cr8s.
Ive only felt ive had bad cr8s in one game in a long time.. in terms of not very powerful weapons. Ive been in situations in games where ive had to play aggressive because i keep getting these big none super weapons.
Uber and crazy who also have experience in t17 have noticed this aswell.. Something just doesnt feel right about the cr8 chances..
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Well if anything surely this makes for a more exciting game.
My point is, even if your getting better weps in general, then so is your opponant.
This doesnt mean each turn will be attack attack attack, you'll still play with defence in regard the same you would had you picked up worser weps.
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Uber and crazy who also have experience in t17 have noticed this aswell.. Something just doesnt feel right about the cr8 chances..
I've been playing Team17 since like 2000, competing in channel #Team17~ These crate chances are the same as they've always been !!! ;) [Unlimited girders version]
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Hehe I`m sure he was looking for a different word then crate chances... Not many can pull of "oldschooling" out Chicken though, a player voted the third best team17 player as far back as 8 years ago :o The only guy still active is HHC I guess :P
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I don't know which came first, the Chicken or the Lamb :P But Team17 has always been my favorite scheme, and if there was a difference in crate chances I think the games would not still end around the same exact time as usual... 9 times out of 10, a game between 2 great Team17 players ends a little after sudden death, sometimes a little sooner, sometimes have to wait for the water to come up some, and occasionally no one even gets any SD weaps and everyone drowns... I've probably played more than 1,000 Team17 games since I started in 1999, and the games have always seemed to end around the same timeframe... as with back then, I'm still not surprised when someone gets a banana on the first turn! Its always been that way. Maybe there is a difference because I don't remember the exact settings for crate chances, but I have not noticed any differences whatsoever
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here's my opinion: when you have an unlimited supply of girders, little thought goes into laying them down. at least with limited girders you have to put some thought into it when you want to lay a girder cos then you can't just mindlessly block your opponent out of desperation. yes, desperation. the only time you see people blocking every turn is when they get their ass demolished early on and just hope to get some crates by blocking. and when you think about it, blocking is really easy, so even really bad t17 players can win/draw doing it if their opponent doesn't get any useful weapon, which happens a lot no matter how hard you deny it. When a skillful player can lose to a simple tactic that noobs and pros can both pull off easily, to me it is a scheme flaw.
concerning weapons, I've always said removing nanas, vases, armies, and maybe magic bullets would force the players to be more creative with the other weapons, thus improving the chances for the better t17 player to win in the already luck-filled scheme
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I vote for unlimited.
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I vote for unlimited also.
In my opinion, if you get girder-trapped in a way where opponent just collects and girders you back, well then you did something wrong before and opponent is just taking advantage of it. There are ways to counter this, but you need to be creative about it. Map control starts from the start of the game, if you give it away then you did something wrong.
I'd like to see bit less powerful weapons in T17 though.
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FB scheme with unlimited griders ftw.. i uploaded?
Could this be set to the default tus scheme as most people want unlimited griders, or they don't mind 7 or unlimited. Theres more people that dislike 7 and prefer to get it changed to unlimited.
As for cr8 chances, me and NAiL have argued and played some t17s (and shoppers) together.. we think when you edit the 7 griders of the tus scheme it changes something in the cr8s? I can't remember.
As for having loads of powerful weapons, i think its happened more often for me that i get nice cr8s in games than loads of shit cr8s. But ive still had some games where i have had loads of shit cr8s. But its all probabilities and cant prove anything as all random anyway. If you flip a coin a hunder 100 times, even tho its 50/50, you still could get heads the whole time. However unlikely it is, its still possible.
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bow takes too much imo ... 50 per shot on sd sucks ... it should take 25 as sg imo there shouldn't be super nanas coz with that the game for the opponent turns into shit after a super nana attack just a suggestion!
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I agree in both points. Hard to change those things tho... too many oldschool hardliners that would vote against any kind of change :). Nonetheless i enjoy t17 as it is now. Wouldnt know why change it in any way. If my opponent gets good weaps i can at least blame that instead of blaming myself hehe.
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I vote against any kind of change :D
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YEah me too no changes! that includes unlimited girders as old times.
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u guys saying u want unlimited griders or not? :P
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Unlimited!
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I vote for unlimited too ;)
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I dont really care too much, but I'd vote for limited.
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I dont really care too much, but I'd vote for limited.
rofl at sig! i'd change it otherwise you won't find a single game ever XDDD
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done, sir. :D
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Why dont you make a poll?
That remind me of yesterday.. a clan was refusing to play if it wasnt "limited 7 girders" rule.... I WONT NAME THE CLAN !
And after they hosted a WXW with FB scheme... :-\ :P
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Lol, that's like making u use deapers coz u pee ur bed and they can't contain their own shit.
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Why dont you make a poll?
That remind me of yesterday.. a clan was refusing to play if it wasnt "limited 7 girders" rule.... I WONT NAME THE CLAN !
And after they hosted a WXW with FB scheme... :-\ :P
sounds like beer and bull
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i never refused play nothing agains u, so why the fuk u said that could be me? waht u want? looks like u are folling me here and flamming.. dnt get ur pontass man.
fu, im not the one who cry if that isnt inlimit chik, u do
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i am folling and flamming uu
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I never refused to play anything against you, or agains ur clan. Thar irritated me.
so why the fuk u said that could be me?
also u refused to play with 7 grids, lol
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it was just joke. chill. Ive played people who wanted 7. but prefer unlimited.
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eya but, i can even understant if u do that with bull cose evryone knows how he is, but me? still dnt understand ae.
i play with 7, 8 9 11 or unlimitd i dnt care lol
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pls pls xDDDDDDDDDD chicken and beer xDDD dont fight pls xD
it was me and adun xDDD
if thedogg had keep that scheme i would have play it , but adun told me " no voy a jugar con vigas ilimitadas , me salgo si lo ponen" and that means " im not gonna play with unlimited girders , if the put it unlimited im out " xDDD
and i didnt have any other clanmate to play , so i had to be agree with him xD or not clanner xdd , well, insist , at least xd.
i dont like too much to play t17 against thedogg and ninjacamel tbh , they block us every turns , and that rly sucks , and i thought that 7 girders would make the t17 more interesting
whatever
no pelee culiaos zlloro
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unlimited! tus t17 suks.
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if thedogg had keep that scheme i would have play it , but adun told me " no voy a jugar con vigas ilimitadas , me salgo si lo ponen" and that means " im not gonna play with unlimited girders , if the put it unlimited im out " xDDD
and i didnt have any other clanmate to play , so i had to be agree with him xD or not clanner xdd , well, insist , at least xd.
i dont like too much to play t17 against thedogg and ninjacamel tbh , they block us every turns , and that rly sucks , and i thought that 7 girders would make the t17 more interesting
In other words, AduN cried like a spoiled baby and you acted like a parent who can't handle his crying kid :)
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If you flip a coin a hunder 100 times, even tho its 50/50, you still could get heads the whole time. However unlikely it is, its still possible.
deed. I dont think that the cr8 chances change when you edit girders, although we talked about it before I change them on every t17 I play and I can still find loads of replays where ive had less useful weps.
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yea... its just been weird luck that games i were in had lots of big weapons and less useful ones for both players...
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i dont like too much to play t17 against thedogg and ninjacamel tbh , they block us every turns , and that rly sucks
Lol culiao!!! It wasnt me who blocked you the full game, i think it was theredi :P
Anyway i was just bored to RH cuz i had not the TUS scheme, but imo TUS should keep the original scheme.. or at least let the choice to play with original scheme if we want to, or if more than 3 people agree on it.
Why would we change a scheme that have been played for years?
7 girders isnt team17, call it team18 rofl :P
PS: beer (http://www.globalfailure.com/images/avatars/Drama-Queen.gif)
PS2: keep original scheme for WXW too !
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if thedogg had keep that scheme i would have play it , but adun told me " no voy a jugar con vigas ilimitadas , me salgo si lo ponen" and that means " im not gonna play with unlimited girders , if the put it unlimited im out " xDDD
and i didnt have any other clanmate to play , so i had to be agree with him xD or not clanner xdd , well, insist , at least xd.
i dont like too much to play t17 against thedogg and ninjacamel tbh , they block us every turns , and that rly sucks , and i thought that 7 girders would make the t17 more interesting
In other words, AduN cried like a spoiled baby and you acted like a parent who can't handle his crying kid :)
who are you?
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if thedogg had keep that scheme i would have play it , but adun told me " no voy a jugar con vigas ilimitadas , me salgo si lo ponen" and that means " im not gonna play with unlimited girders , if the put it unlimited im out " xDDD
and i didnt have any other clanmate to play , so i had to be agree with him xD or not clanner xdd , well, insist , at least xd.
i dont like too much to play t17 against thedogg and ninjacamel tbh , they block us every turns , and that rly sucks , and i thought that 7 girders would make the t17 more interesting
In other words, AduN cried like a spoiled baby and you acted like a parent who can't handle his crying kid :)
who are you?
Who's asking?
When you pick t17, use whichever variation of the scheme you like, no one is forcing you to use 7 girders if you don't wanna. When your opponent picks t17, play it whichever scheme they pick, it's same for both. If they keep blocking you all the time, do something. Can we close this girder topic now?
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no it's a nice topic ! u can open a new one about wxw scheme :P
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eya this stinks. as rok said, is the same for both :o
why all this
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This thread is fake and gay
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"A warm welcome to you.
The Ultimate Site is a Worms:Armageddon Site, Which is going to be a big W:A home for so many purposes requested by people.
Site will grow bigger and bigger with things its members suggest the most."
TUS is a league by wormers and for wormers, and it is working under a democracy (read: the opposite of FB). Discussion is important, but I agree with Rok, this thread has come to its end now. Why not have a poll and let the result of the voting decide? Still, players can agree to whichever of the two schemes they would like to play. Ofcourse, I always agree to play both since I own everyone anyway ;D
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This dont need a poll... just change to unlimited!
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its should be like, u pick t17 so u choice, as u choice a map. so many problm cose of this shit, jesus.
if i pick t17 ill let u choice
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Beer you are hard to read sometimes XD
Well, so no1 did it, so I will post this poll ! and we will see !