The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
All About TUS => TUS Discussion => Topic started by: FoxHound on July 26, 2021, 09:13 AM
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I spent a good time doing this, so I hope this thread will not be in vain. I listed a lot of schemes I think would be nice to receive a proper TUS map category. Some of them have no maps in TUS, but they can be ported here. Many have only 1 or a few more maps, but I included them because I think all original ideas that require a specially-designed kind of map would be more noticed by the players and maybe more people will contribute with maps for the schemes. If these are too many categories, well maybe the categories could be separated by notability or by map numbers. If the ones with very few maps available cannot be accepted, I hope at least the maps with dozens of maps receive proper categories.
Here's the list:
- Surf Race (9 WMDB)
- Mole Forts (9 WMDB / 26 TUS)
- Boom for Weapons (15 WMDB)
- Kill The King (20 WMDB / 8 TUS)
- PX Kill The King (8 WMDB)
- Highlander (22 WMDB)
- Kaos Normal (16 WMDB / 0-1 TUS)
- Rope for Weapons (12 WMDB)
- Worms Basketball (8 WMDB / 5 TUS)
- Fly-Forts (9 WMDB)
- Rope Knocking (28 WMDB)
- PX Rope Race (WMDB 23)
- PX Capture The Flag (WMDB 22)
- Plopper (23 TUS)
- Trick Before Attack (8 NLF / 2 WMDB + SIBASA's Trick Shopper)
- Minefield (10 WMDB)
- BuildConv (31 TUS)
- Quickdraw (100 TUS)
- Black Hole BnG (21 WMDB)
- Kaos Mole Shopper (56+ WMDB)
- Arrow Race / Bow Race (10 WMDB)
- Drive-by Shopper (10 WMDB + TUS)
- Russian Roulette (7 TUS)
- Girder Battle Race (7 WMDB)
- Power Prodder (7 WMDB)
- Hang Glider Race (7 WMDB)
- Ghost Knocking (4 WMDB / 5 TUS / 1 NLF)
- Sheep Glitch (5 WMDB / more in BTP)
- BWFWHRR (6 WMDB)
- BombSurfer (3 WMDB / 3 TUS)
- Tube Trap (5 WMDB)
- Jump Race (5 WMDB)
- Dangerous Water (6 WMDB)
- Beat The Sheep (5 WMDB)
- Counter-Strike (4 WMDB)
- Cannon Rope Race (5 WMDB / 1 TUS)
- Checkpoint Rope Race (2 WMDB / 5 TUS / 2 WO)
- Beef Race (5 WMDB)
- Mine Drop(per) (4 WMDB)
- Dungeon Shopper (4 WMDB)
- Die Pie (3 WMDB)
- Boom! Headshot (5 WMDB)
- Dominator (3 WMDB)
- Trench Warfare (4 WMDB)
- Mole Vaulting (2 WMDB and TUS)
- Teleporting (3 WMDB)
- raffie's RopeShopper (5 WMDB)
- Special War (5 WMDB)
- Runaway (5 WMDB)
- Plinko (4 WMDB)
- Multi Sheep Race (4 WMDB)
- Pool (4 WMDB)
- Multi Super Sheep Fort (3 WMDB)
- Skinflint Roping (3 WMDB / 1 WKB)
- Paranoia (1 WMDB / 3 WO)
- Knock Race (series) (3 WMDB)
- Black Hole Shopper (3 WMDB / 1 TUS)
- Ghost Refuging (3 WMDB)
- Mutants Mission (series) (3 WMDB)
- Board War (3 WMDB)
- Escape (3 WMDB)
- Dud Mine Race (3 WMDB)
- Castle Raid (3 WMDB)
- Quoridor (3 WMDB)
- Basejump (3 TUS)
- Sheep Crating (3 TUS)
- Trick WxW (3 WMDB)
- Mineball (2 WMDB / 1 TUS)
- NBRxDragon's Crate Race (1 WMDB / 3? WO)
- Builder (2 WMDB)
- DarkMitch's Fly for Weapons (2 WMDB)
- Siege (2 WMDB)
- Ludo (2 WMDB)
- Digging Race (2 WMDB)
- Mine Bomber (2 WMDB)
- Climb Tower (2 WMDB)
- AFA Shopper (2 WMDB)
- Rowy (2 WMDB)
- Pro Basketball (2 WMDB)
- Jet-Kune-Do (2 WMDB)
- Sniper (2 WMDB)
- Dig Race (2 WMDB)
- Rope on Ice (2 WMDB)
- Teleport Race (1-2 WMDB)
- Baseball Race (1 WMDB)
- Bowling (1 WMDB)
- Ping-pong (1 WMDB)
- Dodge The Meteors (1 WMDB)
- Comet Dodging Race (1 WMDB)
- Sink (1 WMDB)
- Quidditch (1 WMDB)
- Boom Race Golfcourse (1 WMDB)
- Hunter (1 WMDB)
- WormsCurling (1 WMDB)
- Snipers VSWalkers (1 WMDB)
- Chute Out (1 WKB)
- TnTower (1 WMDB)
- Trick Shot Race (1 WMDB)
- Bungee Glitch Race (1 WMDB)
- Float for Weapons (1 WMDB)
- Water Race (1 WMDB)
- Improved Comet Dodging (1 WMDB)
- Stay Alive (1 WMDB)
- Climb Tower Zook TestStuff (1 WMDB)
- Multi-challenge (1 WMDB)
- Flat Earth Apocalypse (1 WMDB)
- Worms Chess (1 WMDB)
- Skeet (1 TUS)
- Goku Battle Arena (1 TUS)
- Hoops (1 WMDB)
- Drive for Weapons (1 WMDB)
- Pigeon Hunt (1 WMDB)
- Clay Pigeon Shooting (1 WMDB)
- Peti's Mineball (1 WMDB)
- Plop for Win (1 WMDB)
- Fly:And:D!E (1 WMDB)
- Rubber Baseball (1 WMDB)
- Digger Race (1 WMDB)
- Shotgun Race (1 WMDB / More in BTP)
- Hide and Seek (1 WMDB and TUS)
- Hysteria Race (1 WMDB)
- Mine Race (1 WMDB)
- King of the Ring (1 WMDB)
- House of Crates (1 WMDB)
- Target Trick Race (1 TUS)
- Petrol on Ice (1 WMDB)
- The Maze Wormer (1 WMDB)
- The Hunger Worms (1 WMDB)
- Free Race (1 WMDB)
- Jet Zook (1 TUS)
- Take out the Mine (1 WMDB)
- Black Hole Golf (1 WMDB)
- Black Hole Fort (1 WMDB)
- 4 in a Row (1 WMDB)
- Gomoku - 5 in a Row (1 WMDB)
- 4 Elementos (1 WMDB)
- Worm Tennis (1 WMDB)
- Capture The Flag Shopper (1 WMDB)
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that's amazing how many schemes you got! do you know the rules for each too? those are only color maps or bw as well?
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only color maps afaik
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that's amazing how many schemes you got! do you know the rules for each too? those are only color maps or bw as well?
Thanks. I didn't play all these schemes, but I read the rules and saw the maps of all these schemes. I always try to play these alternative schemes. Probably I missed some schemes and I did not include the ones that use randomly-generated maps or maps of other schemes. The vast majority of the maps I listed are colored, because I would have to search manually all the alternative maps in the Blame The Pixel backup. I already started doing this, but it is a boring work and takes too much time. I plan to make a mappack of the alternative game modes in .bit format one day. However, there are some .bit maps counted in some schemes I listed, for example, the five classic Ghost Knocking maps by Garg0yle, 3 BombSurfer maps available here on TUS, most of the Trick Before Attack maps are .BIT ones, etc.
My request still remains. Which or how many of these schemes will receive a proper map category in TUS? I can also add links for each scheme to prove that these maps exist, it would require some extra time to do this, though. The same I can say about the information regarding the variety of map authors (there are schemes with many maps made mainly by one or two players and some made by a vast amount of people).
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Well we could set a minimum number of required maps for a category. Obviously if a category has only 1 map or 2, it doesn't need to exist separately. How many maps do you think should be the minimum requirement?
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Well we could set a minimum number of required maps for a category. Obviously if a category has only 1 map or 2, it doesn't need to exist separately. How many maps do you think should be the minimum requirement?
In my honest opinion the ideal would be adding all these 138 categories, or maybe more if someone remind about more, because every single idea is very valuable for this game. I mean, each new scheme someone spent some time thinking while making a map can be a future Shopper (https://worms2d.info/Shopper) or Hysteria (https://worms2d.info/Hysteria), citing these two notable examples. I simply don't know if WA would be so played if these 2 schemes didn't exist. Okay maybe someone would create something in another direction and people enjoy playing the scheme too, the game would evolve in a different way.
Comparing to Super Mario World hacks now (not Mario Maker, the hacks are better): someone or a group of people made the Invictus hack, some one or a group of people made Grand Poo World 2, Someone or a group of people made Garlic. Maybe if weren't these hacks, Super Mario World hacks wouldn't be so played the way they are. If you compare with Donkey Kong Country hacks, they are not as popular, they might be not-so-fun to play. The same way, Worms 2D schemes were constructed by a community of players.
For a long time I see those WMDB (and TUS) categories almost never being updated. All these years have passed and I started to think that this could be some kind of censure, in a very pessimistic point of view, like only schemes "of the club" can receive categories, like those damn bad WMDB tags, depending on the relation a player had with the reviewers or website maintainers. I already thought that perhaps some people were sucking up to the reviewers or admins for better tags or new categories to specific maps, because there are a lot of maps and people often asked to add more categories and were ignored. I already thought about a scheme control system, to dictate the directions that the game will take. Or maybe people are just too passionate by the schemes of the past, like nostalgic baby boomers having conservative thoughts. I think too many people of this game is not very open to scheme changes with alternative ways of playing like playing with LDET. Like a generation conflict where some are not open to the natural evolution of the game.
Right now you might be thinking this is not a pessimistic point of view, it is a whole nightmare I had. Maybe that's true, probably people simply don't care about new game modes being created, in a game that should encourage players to create new game modes, since this might be one notable nature of this game: a platform where people can be creative and some dedicated players can play on the stuff created by the game community. Or maybe admins are just working for free and they have a real-life to cope, what means less time to think on the game and administrate all stuff that is happening.
Perhaps I'm just making a huge drama, and these schemes shouldn't be highlighted here, they should be hidden in the bottom of the sea full of (Shopper) maps and only get noticed by rats searching for ideas. These maps deserve their own category because they are not like 1 more wxw or TTRR someone made using a program (not that I'm against programs that make maps, I love them) or made in 5 minutes using MS Paint (the program I use). It is a whole different concept someone is proposing. And even if this idea does not become popular, the idea itself is an important legacy of the game that can be used as inspiration to other Scheme ideas. Maybe with an update the scheme can be way more funny to play, like Boom Race with multishot. Maybe one day Tower Race receive a new feature like the "Save State" button used in emulators that might make the game more funny to play (without needing to manually teleport back on some situations) and receive a boost in its already notable online presence.
Now assuming that these 138 categories (that could exist even with zero maps for me: the maps might not be in TUS, but the scheme exists) do not receive proper categories for all schemes, and now we have to sacrifice some gameplay proposals (maybe to avoid a flood of categories that will hide the most played ones)... I would say that maybe, maybe 4 or 5 maps would be the requirement, because that would highlight many interesting schemes. Maybe we could add a filter of different people contributing to the maps too, like 2 or 3 different people. Or maybe we could create a formula, using math to stablish a criterium based on the relative amount of maps compared to the number of people who contributed to the scheme. But this would be complicated too, because some maps like the Quickdraw ones can be made in 1 minute using WA map editor and they are perfect for the scheme. Many things to consider. People could also try to "cheat" to receive a map category for a scheme.
I think it would be nice to see a map counter along with a contributors counter (on the right of each name) in each row of map category. This way people would notice the scheme popularity very easily, without needing to load the maps and see how many were made, by how many people. Another solution could be to split into two kinds of categories: notable and ideas, just like Schemes (https://worms2d.info/Schemes) page and Scheme ideas (https://worms2d.info/Scheme_ideas) page. But I never liked this segregation, I always thought that all scheme articles should be in the same page, because Schemes page is more accessed and known, and all schemes should receive attention, but yeah, the most important ones should be highlighted and easily found. However this is relative and it changes over time (updates might be necessary).
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In my honest opinion the ideal would be adding all these 138 categories, or maybe more if someone remind about more, because every single idea is very valuable for this game.
While it's not a bad idea, I guess you have to look at it from the perspective that asks "Is it worth it? Does the reward outweigh the work?".
If I am not mistaken, as I haven't actually done any website coding since geocities days with html. 138 different categories would require 138 separate pages? Which means a lot of coding for MonkeyIsland? Personally if I was asked to make 138 pages for genres that only have 1 or 2 maps made and pretty much nobody plays those schemes, i'd be thinking it's a waste of time. Which is why, i'm assuming(correct me if i'm wrong please), he's asking for a threshold.
That's why the "Misc" category exists.
However, on the other side, i'd actually prefer to have every single scheme have it's own map section.
For the longest time i've been personally disappointed having Big RR and TTRR in the same category, not to mention, I also think Big RR should have sub categories such as:
- Standard - A normal Big RR map completely sealed and safe from water hazard, no obstacles, no TTRR sections.
- Hybrid - A Big RR map that has TTRR sections.
- Water - A Big RR map that has water hazards.
- Obstacle - A Big RR map that is designed with many obstacles and objects blocking the path.
Though wanting sub categories isn't really that important, it would just be a welcome bonus.
Though Big RR and TTRR sharing the same category is frustrating, so I can definitely see your point, so it's a question of "Is it worth it for such unpopular schemes?".
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In my honest opinion the ideal would be adding all these 138 categories, or maybe more if someone remind about more, because every single idea is very valuable for this game.
While it's not a bad idea, I guess you have to look at it from the perspective that asks "Is it worth it? Does the reward outweigh the work?".
If I am not mistaken, as I haven't actually done any website coding since geocities days with html. 138 different categories would require 138 separate pages? Which means a lot of coding for MonkeyIsland? Personally if I was asked to make 138 pages for genres that only have 1 or 2 maps made and pretty much nobody plays those schemes, i'd be thinking it's a waste of time. Which is why, i'm assuming(correct me if i'm wrong please), he's asking for a threshold.
That's why the "Misc" category exists.
However, on the other side, i'd actually prefer to have every single scheme have it's own map section.
For the longest time i've been personally disappointed having Big RR and TTRR in the same category, not to mention, I also think Big RR should have sub categories such as:
- Standard - A normal Big RR map completely sealed and safe from water hazard, no obstacles, no TTRR sections.
- Hybrid - A Big RR map that has TTRR sections.
- Water - A Big RR map that has water hazards.
- Obstacle - A Big RR map that is designed with many obstacles and objects blocking the path.
Though wanting sub categories isn't really that important, it would just be a welcome bonus.
Though Big RR and TTRR sharing the same category is frustrating, so I can definitely see your point, so it's a question of "Is it worth it for such unpopular schemes?".
i feel like that's something tags should do
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i feel like that's something tags should do
Yeah that could work, like a filter? Great idea!
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/J7jsbfcJ2O5eo/giphy.gif?cid=790b7611fcf2553cc0132643384ea40f5c4da1f694718293&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
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While it's not a bad idea, I guess you have to look at it from the perspective that asks "Is it worth it? Does the reward outweigh the work?".
If I am not mistaken, as I haven't actually done any website coding since geocities days with html. 138 different categories would require 138 separate pages? Which means a lot of coding for MonkeyIsland? Personally if I was asked to make 138 pages for genres that only have 1 or 2 maps made and pretty much nobody plays those schemes, i'd be thinking it's a waste of time. Which is why, i'm assuming(correct me if i'm wrong please), he's asking for a threshold.
I don't understand much about websites and technical issues, but if I'm exaggerating my suggestion of 4 or 5 maps could be good, maybe 3 because there are good schemes with only 3 maps, like Sally Shopper that I forgot to put in this list (so the list has 139 schemes now). If 3-5 maps filter would result in a yet big number of categories, I believe a 9 maps filter would do the job with very nice schemes.
That's why the "Misc" category exists.
I don't think "miscelaneous" is the same thing as an "original new concepts" category. Both should exist. Miscelaneous would be maps that can be used for any scheme, memes, maps that are jokes or protests, etc. Original new concepts would unite all the schemes of this list and the others I missed that didn't reach the filter number.
Though Big RR and TTRR sharing the same category is frustrating
Definitely Big RR and TTRR shouldn't be together the same way Fly Shopper and WxW are not in the same category as the standard Shopper.
i feel like that's something tags should do
Good idea.
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That's why the "Misc" category exists.
I don't think "miscelaneous" is the same thing as an "original new concepts" category. Both should exist. Miscelaneous would be maps that can be used for any scheme, memes, maps that are jokes or protests, etc. Original new concepts would unite all the schemes of this list and the others I missed that didn't reach the filter number.
Wow, you went hard there on the word miscellaneous! Poor miscellaneous! :D
I'm not sure why you have such a negative association with the word?
Your suggestion is for "Original New Concepts" and "Miscellaneous" to do the exact same thing if you put 200 maps scattered across 130 different schemes into either?
Miscellaneous just means it consists of various types, having various qualities, which is perfectly true.
"Original New Concepts" is an inaccurate category for maps of various and mixed schemes, especially when you take into consideration the following:
- Some of the schemes are not original, they are simply remixes and alternate versions of others.
- Many of the schemes are not new, they have existed for over a decade.
- The word concept itself means it is an idea, a though, a prototype of sorts.
- Some of the maps are for existing categories, or for multiple categories, or the uploader either wasn't sure which category to use, or didn't care.
- Some of the maps are made without the intention of being for any scheme, like my "By Komito By Komito" map for example.
So in the end, the word "Misc" short for "Miscellaneous" is accurate and fitting.
Edit - Decided to go for bullet point instead lol.
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Okay, I'm not against Miscelaneous category and I was not very precise with "original new concepts". What I meant to say is that I often go to Misc. category in WMDB and there are many maps which are not maps for alternative/different schemes. So it is not that useful for me who thinks that it would be so much better if all these schemes were united in a single cathegory. In WMDB it is more useful to search for the "Original" tag, but there are many maps designed for unique different ideas that are not tagged as "Original".
In my opinion it is better to have both Miscelaneous category and a category for other different, alternative or unique ideas. I would prefer it as a category than searching for the "original tag". People would easily click and see the interesting ideas. And the other random maps would still be available in "misc." category.
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how about this:
1. generic island
2. generic cave
3. new scheme
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how about this:
1. generic island
2. generic cave
3. new scheme
Do you mean these 3 itens would replace the Misc. Category? Or are these 3 itens tags? I think that any stimulus to people create new schemes is welcome. And I agree that it is useful to find caves or islands if these tags or categories be implemented. TUS allows .bit and .lev maps, TUS permits black and white maps too (an advantage over WMDB), so it would be good to filter normal maps.
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Well we could set a minimum number of required maps for a category. Obviously if a category has only 1 map or 2, it doesn't need to exist separately. How many maps do you think should be the minimum requirement?
Okay, now that I discovered way more than 138 schemes, and considering that TUS still has almost the same categories as WMDB, it would be cool to have at least a few more categories. Not sure if this is planned for TUS 3.0 or if it can happen in TUS 2.0, but I keep missing more categories.
I still don't have a good number to suggest, but if only one more category be added, that would be great already.
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I think it's a good idea to implement this and give better recognition to some schemes.
Furthermore, I don't think TUS competes with WMDB, it doesn't make sense to be an exact mirror of the categories there. ;D
edit: It's not exact, wmdb has few more (more reasons to add more categories.)
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I'd definitely add more map categories. I don't think the current list reflects the community correctly.
I still don't have a good number to suggest, but if only one more category be added, that would be great already.
Are you saying you need only one more category to be added for now?
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Are you saying you need only one more category to be added for now?
What I meant is that previously I had said that all schemes deserve a new category, but that would be a very big change and also infinite, because every time a new scheme be added, a new category would be needed, making a huge list. That comment might had weakened my suggestion, so I said that at least one more category on TUS maps would be a progress, since they are the same for years. It's better than nothing. However, of course I would prefer more.
But thinking on this hypothesis of one single extra map category to be added on TUS, what I would suggest is to split Miscellaneous one into Creative/Original ideas and Generic maps.
This would be great to make people easily find new schemes/new map designs/new ideas without needing to search in the middle of hundreds of maps designed for any schemes (usually normal gameplay schemes), maps that the player made but not for a specific scheme in mind, maps that are basically one cool image that someone wanted to transform into a map, without thinking on a scheme.
So, basically, I think that in an ideal scenario schemes that already have more than 5 maps made by different players could receive a proper category, specially if the scheme already has competitive events. All those other schemes that have only 1 map or 2 made by 1 guy only should go to the Creative ideas category. Generic/multiple schemes maps category would be the real Miscellaneous one.
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Maybe just suggest some schemes too?