The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
All About TUS => TUS Discussion => Topic started by: avirex on October 27, 2016, 11:50 PM
-
Because there is no way to determine a big map, from a classic map, and 99% of the community choose to play on classic maps for league game.
I suggest the rules say very specifically "light bulb symbolizes acceptance of map and scheme 99% of the time, but in the case of unforeseen circumstances, it is the hosts job to make opponents aware of maps, scheme changes, etc. Failure to do so could result in void games"
-
u light u agree!
ae use this mapa from replay very good mapa in lobby it looks normal but in game it's different
[attachment=1]
-
^ lol'd
though it does have a few black areas in preview, these most likely won't be noticed
-
If the choosen map does not look like it has default proportions/aspect ratio, it likely means that its big map, coz none makes smaller maps, and almost none makes them having default proportions. That shopper map of discord is not default sized one which means its either big or normal, but tight as hell.
Summ: big maps are easy to detect, just look at previews sometimes, no rule addition is needed.
-
u light u agree!
ae use this mapa from replay very good mapa in lobby it looks normal but in game it's different
[attachment=1]
ahaha n1, but I think league game on this map woulda been void xd
If the choosen map does not look like it has default proportions/aspect ratio, it likely means that its big map, coz none makes smaller maps, and almost none makes them having default proportions. That shopper map of discord is not default sized one which means its either big or normal, but tight as hell.
Summ: big maps are easy to detect, just look at previews sometimes, no rule addition is needed.
but what about this mapa for example https://www.tus-wa.com/maps/map-8655/
-
but what about this mapa for example https://www.tus-wa.com/maps/map-8655/
Considering that this is battle race map, it's easy to detect its real size.
Regarding topic I think that maps must be agreed despite lighting the bulb. Sometimes you should start a game in order to estimate a map. But I can say also that all participants are in the same conditions on any map.
-
but what about this mapa for example https://www.tus-wa.com/maps/map-8655/
Common sense doesn't help you here?
If not, I have a tool you can use to jog your memory:
(http://s.hswstatic.com/gif/hammer-1.jpg)
-
TUS league: the league where rules are half written half based on common sense (and what a common sense!)
-
I have seen wxw maps that look small in the thumbnail, but it's because they were small maps...
A small map, made in color does not necessarily mean it's a big map.
Walrus, you keep telling me you have this method of knowing big nap from classic maps, but your not telling me how.. will you kind of are...
So far I got, if there is gaps on the side is a big map (not true)
And if it looks small on the preview it's big map (also not true)
I think the logical thing would be for the host to tell people it's a big map... it's very simple.
-
Here's a rule of thumb for you: if you see a map that looks small / has gaps on the sides, ask "isn't this a big map?" 99% of the time you don't need to ask and 99% of the time you are right.
TheMadCharles' method works too if you are not using wkSuperFrontendHD (you can't see the warning text if that feature is enabled). Then you get the exact dimensions of every PNG map.
-
Born a new kind avoiders.
-
Senator get a grip!
The person who is hosting should be the person to declare any abnormal settings for the match, period, stop making things harder for the people who actually put the most effort into playing this League.
You have pretty much almost everyone telling you how things would be better, you are doing exactly what Team17 do every f**king time they make a new game, by ignoring the people who actually LOVE the game and know what they are talking about...
Seriously, you wonder why people are getting fed up?
-
What if the host forgets to do that? How long can you play before requiring a map change? One turn? Even if you fail your turn?
-
I play league since 12`(and play WA since 09`(before 2001~ on PS1))
And from start my carier on tus all players trying and used nonstandart maps. For what? For give yourself better chances on win. This is was ok all the time.
Watch it:
imitation ttrr(is a not real shopper maps) in Shopper but i never avoiding it also https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-140926/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-142621/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-177686/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-180604/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-183692/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-187077/ lalo
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-191827/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-193112/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-193193/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-195062/
use big but REAL Shopper map https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-142607/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-156370/ Game with Korydex also
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-177419/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-182833/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-193111/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-193521/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-194654/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-201542/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-202017/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-202697/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-202703/ daina
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-202926/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-202966/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-204574/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-205325/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-205345/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-210209/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-210405/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-212616/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-213101/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-213141/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-213261/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-213278/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-213479/ lalo
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-213517/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-213526/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-213639/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-213675/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-213949/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-214016/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-214026/ lalo and daina haved 50/50 chances in final
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-214064/ aladdin and avi last game before caomplain topic
Big Pod Shoppa map
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-153650/
-
Senator get a grip!
The person who is hosting should be the person to declare any abnormal settings for the match, period, stop making things harder for the people who actually put the most effort into playing this League.
You have pretty much almost everyone telling you how things would be better, you are doing exactly what Team17 do every f**king time they make a new game, by ignoring the people who actually LOVE the game and know what they are talking about...
Seriously, you wonder why people are getting fed up?
What the troubles with Senator and Shopper now? all time old players used "special harder maps vs opponents". why this question wake up only now???
Dibz hate big shopper but he never crying about it and never sking to change map! respecte him for this. me also all time play ttrr and from 12` all time 100% lose it for him and no probleme.
-
@RIP
I have no trouble with Senator, he knows I have time and respect for him, i've said way more positive things about him than negative.
I have no problem with big maps in Shopper either, pretty much no one does, they just want to be aware of it before playing.
The fact is, the huge majority of Shopper games played in Classic League are with normal sized maps, that means the majority of players can possibly be caught off guard with an abnormal sized map, there is nothing evil about this, it's just one of these things that can happen.
So, the good, honest, and logical thing to do, would be if you want to use an abnormal sized map, just mention it before the game begins, your opponent may not wish to play on this type of map, and it is within the rules to ask your opponent to change the map.
@Senator
If the host forgets, whether someone has a bad 1st turn or not they should be able to quit and ask to change map, it's only 1 turn, we should promote forgiveness and good sportsmanship, not tightness and cheapness, not to mention that everyone would be happier if everyone was happy ;)
-
Komodo u are right. Player can just not use Tele start and asking for other map how ŝ say senator.
-
Well i dunno with maps, but I always warned the girls my cock is normal size, cos so many told me already refused to f@#! others guys cos the cock was too big, so i say it is normal, them agree, to go to bed with me, and them i do my job and bye ae!!!
Cos king!!!
-
Well i dunno with maps, but I always warned the girls my cock is normal size, cos so many told me already refused to f@#! others guys cos the cock was too big, so i say it is normal, them agree, to go to bed with me, and them i do my job and bye ae!!!
Cos king!!!
Lmao, I saw that coming! xD
-
If the host forgets, whether someone has a bad 1st turn or not they should be able to quit and ask to change map, it's only 1 turn, we should promote forgiveness and good sportsmanship, not tightness and cheapness, not to mention that everyone would be happier if everyone was happy ;)
exactly
-
I really don't see why your fighting against this so hard senator...
Even my complaint if you were doing your job, should have been void.
But now I'm over that, and I just want to make sure people don't get taken advantage of... as I said earlier, daina, lalo , and myself were all caught off guard by these big maps that don't make you click in lobby to accept them... that's well over a combined 30 years of experience that were tricked
Yes, I agree that from now on, I'll just have to be extra careful before I start games, it's like the old saying goes, "fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me."
But why are you going to allow others to get taken advantage of like this? When you can simply make a rule to notify your opponent of abnormal size maps. Why would someone forget? And what does it matter if they do?
Since when do mods forgive people if they forget rules? What are you talking about?
Also, you said there is no big maps in roper because border does now allow it... what if I make a big roper map, with regulation border in paint shop? There is no rules saying no big roper maps, so I'm allowed to do this correct?
Also big elite maps.. nothing stopping me there...
My point is, just because there are map makers that have made big shoppe maps, does not mean it should automatically be accepted into classic league.. and so far that's been your argument... because they exist, and there is no rule not to allow them, they are legal.
I was genuinely surprised to find out classic league allows big maps, considering big maps are a new-ish feature.. I'm not sure what business they have in classic league, they tilt belong in free league.. but whatever I can understand maybe 2 people want to play on a big map, and agree to it, they should be able to.... but host should make it very clear if he is hosting an abnormal size map.. I don't even know why your debating the issue... people should not be tricked, misinformed, or mislead into playing a map they would not otherwise play.. period
-
HOOOLLLYYYY SHEETTTTT
"and so far that's been your argument... because they exist, and there is no rule not to allow them, they are legal."
If all will complain about everything that is not in the rules, it will finish in the next century.
You will not stop whining several days!!! Who are u???? I writed it in game. You did prove it.
Somebody will ban him for a week that he could calm himself.
-
I really don't see why your fighting against this so hard senator...
Even my complaint if you were doing your job, should have been void.
I'm not against that rule but it has a little flaw when the host forgets to inform the opponent (people are not perfect as Komo said). It allows you to decide based on the outcome of the first turns. If your opponent fails while you make a successful turn, you may want to continue despite the map. If you fail, you request a rematch. Maybe we can live with that... It would be better if people were capable of making the decision when placing worms. Aladdin said "map lol" to you when the first worm was placed so he noticed it right away. But as we have seen, we can't expect all the people to pay attention before the game really gets going..
Remember you continued playing after your request. So you are suggesting that you could have a riskless shot at winning and if you lose, you could get the game void?
[dt`wreckz] you cant choose big map
[dt`wreckz] i never in my life played a TUS game on a big map lol
[dt`wreckz] ill play, only cuz i dont know if its legal or not... but i will find out after game
-
yeah all maps should be just standard size imho...
-
What about we make a poll? This is going nowhere
-
why don`t we just believe in humans as adaptive beings? everyone is aware of the situation because of the drama, people got plenty of information how to detect big maps. if you still light up to a map and feel surprised by its size, you can simply quit the game before the first turn starts, placing 4 worms takes enough time to realize the proportions of the map, no mod will ever punish you for this. the 30 years WA experience of cfcvirex should make it easy for them to follow those two simple steps.
-
why don`t we just believe in humans as adaptive beings?
you overrate humans
-
Remember you continued playing after your request. So you are suggesting that you could have a riskless shot at winning and if you lose, you could get the game void?
Well, it doesn't help when the rules say finish a game then make a complaint...
-
senator, dont take bits and pieces of my quotes....
i said in the game very clearly, that we are going to finish, and if big maps are not allowed, then the game will be void and we are wasting our time...
you ask me about a risk free game?? sure, thats exactly what it was going to be, because RIP was too much of a poor sport to just RH when i asked nicely... instead he raged.
senator, the rules clearly state that i must finish all games, then file a complaint, the rule tell me not to quit... you are a mod no?? im confused now.
peja: i have to be honest, i still had no idea it was a big map after all the tele's... i did not scroll around the map.. i guess you could say i should have paid more attention before the game, and at the start of the game.. and i completely agree, but at the same time, i should not have to be on guard at all times, expecting people to do lame things like this.
i think everyone can agree on one thing... if nothing else... big maps are not the norm.
so with that said, why is it not he host's job to inform everyone?? peja, i know that everyone that is in this thread knows about this situation, but im not concerned about the people in this thread, what about other people that don't read forums (especially not the 4 page drama sections) or what about some guy thats been on a year break and comes back next week, and is in the same boat i was in with this game... its not fair.
senator, you keep going back to "what if the host forgets to tell" well, once its a rule, no one should forget, and if they do, its their own damn problem... since when do MODS say "oh dude? you forgot that rule?? ok, no problem"
i swear its like your bending reality to fit your needs in this... instead of doing the most logical thing, creating a damn simple rule so people dont get f@#!ed over in the future.
anyway, i give up.. rip can continue to trick people. MODS can continue to stick together when they know they are wrong, Ano will continue to think hes some kind of cool pig god, or whatever he claims....and komo and I will continue to write long posts..... nothing will ever change on worms armageddon.
peace all.
-
Make one map pack called ''TUS League Map Pack'', that will contain all normal sized maps.
The map pack can have 100 to 1000 normal sized maps. This could avoid map conflicts.
-
The only problem with you avirex is that you are not willing to read (or understand) other people's posts. People have already told you the solutions (why am I writing this message when you won't understand it, coz it's not shakespeare-proper usa english slang...?). Many guys said how to detect big maps so you won't be tricked, but this is not the most important post you missed to read / understand.
Look at this: (i will make it bigger for you to be more readable)
What about we make a poll? This is going nowhere
Fortunately we are living here in democracy. In my opinion we should prove that a rule change is not a one-people request and then it is going to be happen.. (see ttrr rule change or even tus reset.. they both had a poll).
So instead of writing kilometer (0.62 mile) long posts, just open a poll with which you can prove that you are right and this rule is missing, because that's the normal way to do a rule change in my opinion. But don't do a poll with a bullshit text like: 99% of the time you should do this 1% not (like you said in your first post), please.
You are welcome ;)
-
Make one map pack called ''TUS League Map Pack'', that will contain all normal sized maps.
The map pack can have 100 to 1000 normal sized maps. This could avoid map conflicts.
imo that's only needed for battlerace
-
i said in the game very clearly, that we are going to finish, and if big maps are not allowed, then the game will be void and we are wasting our time...
Yes and then you found out that big maps ARE allowed.
you ask me about a risk free game?? sure, thats exactly what it was going to be, because RIP was too much of a poor sport to just RH when i asked nicely... instead he raged.
A risk free game when you don't agree with the map but keep playing doesn't make sense.
senator, the rules clearly state that i must finish all games, then file a complaint, the rule tell me not to quit... you are a mod no?? im confused now.
First you tell me to take the rules just as a "guideline", now you are taking them literally? I guess you missed this part: "Mostly the moderators will consider the state of the game, the way of the quitting, how the conversation went"
If you had surrendered right after you requested a rematch, things would look better don't you think? You requested a rematch, then stated that you will play the game. You played the game till the end and lost. Then you found out that big maps are allowed unlike you thought.
senator, you keep going back to "what if the host forgets to tell" well, once its a rule, no one should forget, and if they do, its their own damn problem... since when do MODS say "oh dude? you forgot that rule?? ok, no problem"
You are thinking only how this rule helps the victim. I'm thinking how it can be abused. People can take advantage of the host's mistake even when they are well aware that the map is big. "Sorry you didn't mention it's a big map. GG game void".
-
Stop going back and forward arguing about the way you guys are arguing, it's pointless and irrelevant!!!!
Senator, stop making excuses for the people who are to blame, you are an enabler!
If someone wants to use a big map, it's their fault, period, THEY SHOULD BE THE ONES TO ALERT PLAYERS!
How many times must you be told this? Will you keep on ignoring common sense until this website is destroyed???
Edit - Ffs all you need to do is use basic math - Having to ask if it's a big map everytime the map looks different Vs alerting the players that YOU want a big map.
So infuriating seeing this level of ignorance constantly...
-
Tomi, here you are again, making a post when you have no idea what your talking about... your telling me i don't understand, its clear its now the other way around.
you said many guys said how to detect big map??? actually only 3 guys said they find it easy to detect big map... but never really gave any clear way to detect it, other then gaps on the side... after i disputed that claim, they came back with... "well, it at least gives you clues, and then you can ask the host"
so maybe you should go back and reread the thread, you may learn something.
also... what was wrong with saying normal maps are used 99% of the time, and big maps are used 1% of the time?? I know its not a statistically accurate percentage, but for an educated guess, i would say its pretty close... but im sure you don't agree, Mr. shakespear :D
-
senator, i never found out that big maps ARE allowed.... i found out YOUR interpretation of the rule....
"duhhhhh, big maps are allowed in shoppa, because map makers make them... but they are not allowed in elite or roper, because i think its obvious"
senator, it was not that i did not agree with the map (all though i didnt) it was that i was tricked into playing it, i was not aware of the situation, there for lightbulb should have been null and void have you been listening to anything i say? or just want to try to quote little tid bits, and prove how stubborn your being.....
your just being a right fighter, even though you know your wrong.... and this just goes to show it, your telling me i should have quit the game, and then made complaint and i would have had better odds, rather then what i did (and rules tell me to do) continue the game, and make complaint later...
i understand that i was playing a risk free game, if it was void.. but why would i quit, and have RIP come complain, and get a free win, because i quit a game?? try to look at both sizes of the pancake dude, not just the senator side...
ok senator, let me say this very clearly in hope you understand...
clear rules such as "finish games, then make complain.. DO NOT QUIT" should be taken literally.... ok??
rules pertaining to in game play should be used as guid lines, considering there is so many different outcomes in worms, there is no way to write a rule book covering everything.
and last but not least, of course i am only thinking about the victim...... the fact that you use the word victim, only seems more clear that your know your wrong, but your fighting just to be a right.
please tell me at what point MODS start taking into consideration the possibility of people forgetting the rules??? im baffled your even taking this route... obviously you cant play a full big map game, and at the end after you lost you come with "HEY!... YOU NEVER TOLD ME IT WAS A BIG MAP!!... IM GOING TO COMPLAIN"
that would be a good scenario of using the rules as a guide line, senator... when the complaint lands on your MOD desk, you will not say.. "well... the rules did say you should have told opponents its a big map, so void game"
no... you would use the rule as a guide line but then say "sorry mr. complainer, but you cant wait until the end of the game to ask for a RH, because the host never made you aware of the big map.. you should have done like avirex, and asked for RH as soon as you were aware."
senator, maybe when considering new rules, you should be more concerned about the VICTIM, rather then the aggressor.
anyway... i think everyone is right... i really hope senator does not have final say in rule changes, just because hes a right fighting MOD.
what we need to do is have a vote.. if majority think that the rule is not needed, then ill move on, and accept it...
im having trouble accepting one guys opinion (well 2 and a half, counting RIP and Tomi) over a group of people saying otherwise. sorry.
-
I hate two things only: when somebody is trying to be more clever than he is and when somebody thinks i am stupid. The latter happened twice here last days, so it's hard to stay calmed but i will try and just quote..
... and also in advanced settings you can request to always give a warning about a color map, causing to display it's size in pixels.
EDIT1: It's called Map memory warning
but you just skipped this post.. and i am the f@#!ing shit who dont read the f@#!ing threads ffs..
And now I am off from this thread
-
Tomi nobody thinks your stupid, it's just that some of your posts are stupid...
Do you knew where you are right now? This thread is discussing if we need this new rule implemented.
I had no idea about the option mad Charles pointed out, and I'm sure many others didn't either (and those that are not reading this thread still don't)
Even though I'm sure your a very smart man, I think your missing the objective here.. the rule will not be put into place for me, because I'm going to take proper precautions not to be tricked in this fashion again... the rule needs to be put into place for others, so they do not get tricked. Do you understand yet? Or would you like me to send you a "clever" private message, and try to better explain it?
-
and also in advanced settings you can request to always give a warning about a color map, causing to display it's size in pixels.
sooo each time I'd want to play on a color map I'd have to click on that warning message first? that'd be a bit annoying
-
ahhh... i just read this more clearly, thanks to WTF
That, and also in advanced settings you can request to always give a warning about a color map, causing to display it's size in pixels.
EDIT1: It's called Map memory warning
so, this option does not give a warning for big maps at all.... it only gives a warning for color maps.... he said it then causes it to display its size, but for me... i have no idea what size a standard map is... senator did mention it in the post somewhere, ill have to go back and look, just to protect myself from future lamery...
but i have said it several times, let me say it again... this rule is not needed for me (anymore, because ill keep a close eye on RIP's lame shit) and its most likely not needed for anyone that has posted, or read this thread... but what about everyone else?? what about the people who do not read forums, or long pasts/topics.. they don't matter?? what about the people who are currently on a break, and will return next week... they don't matter?? what about the people that cant speak/read English well, and could not understand everything said here... they don't matter??
-
they maybe dont light up without look at map when play league.
-
:D All know movie Dumb & Dumber?!
Avi your would take the lead role in the sequel of part.
-
Map memory warning doesn't work cause if you play a .bit big map you won't get warned. Big shoppa maps is the new "i'm too spastic to pick a skilled scheme".
-
Sbaffo, do we have .bit big maps?
-
Sbaffo, do we have .bit big maps?
I didn't say "there are" i said IF, map memory warning is based on how many kb or mb the map file is large. The method you suggested in the other thread ain't that better...
-
Damn, this thread was fading away ;D
senator, i never found out that big maps ARE allowed.... i found out YOUR interpretation of the rule....
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-140358/
clear rules such as "finish games, then make complain.. DO NOT QUIT" should be taken literally.... ok??
1. "Both players/clans need to agree on the map. If you light up, you agree on the map."
2. "Quitting a game before it ends means you forfeit the game. There is only one exception to the rule: if your opponent chose the wrong scheme without informing you. Before you quit, you must point out the scheme is incorrect and that you want to replay the game with the correct scheme."
That quitting rule assumes you agreed on the map. In your case there was no agreement although you lighted up.
I think we could just write down another exception to the quitting rule: you can quit at the start of the game if your opponent chose non-default map size without informing you. You must point out before the first turn that you want a normal sized map. If you start playing, you agree on the map.
What it means:
- you request a normal sized map when placing worms. Then you quit/surrender when it's your first turn. If you request/quit later, it's up to the mods.
- the opponent should quit/surrender when it's his first turn. If he doesn't, you quit/surrender when it's your first turn.
So yes, people should pay attention at the start of the game and decide whether the abnormal map is ok or not (if they were not aware of the map size when they lighted up).
-
Seems like you like to interpret the rules how you want to.
There is no arguing with mods.... who cares what over 60% of the community think, right? You still want to interpret things how you want, there no point in arguing.
Write the rule how ever you see fit, if you see fit.
-
stop crying.
-
who cares what over 60% of the community think, right? You still want to interpret things how you want, there no point in arguing.
sorry to say this, but anyone being familiar with basics of empirical research knows your poll is worth nothing.
-
not cry, just saying facts...
big maps can only be played in shoppa?? says the rules?? Nope, says senator.
dont quit games, finish games and complain later, says rules...
but senator says you finished the game, so your penalized...
i can go on and on with senators contradictions.
peja: did you pull the basics of empirical research out of your ass?? TUS does everything by some dumb ass poll, i know its stupid.. but thats how they do things, when i make a poll though, its worth nothing..
i love how this community works, they just bend and twist things when ever its convenient.
anyway.. im done with this thread. might as well lock it tbh. senator update the rules.
-
At least u pulled those "facts" out of someone's ass :D
big maps can only be played in shoppa?? says the rules?? Nope, says senator.
Why is this even important? Your case was about a big Shopper map and I just showed you proof that they are allowed. But cos you insist:
Big WxW maps are also allowed as I said: https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-103226/
Big TTRR maps are not allowed, message from MI this Summer:
Yes, TTRR on big RR maps are not allowed. But there's no written rule about it.
BnG: the scheme rules state BnG should be played on maps with default width size. This is the ruling in original form: "BnG map must have default width size (1920 pix), not more and not less."
As for Roper, Elite, Hysteria and Team17 I can't provide proofs. So.. maybe you can start painting big Roper maps!
-
Dude, your so busy trying to prove your right to me, and the other 60% of people involved in this thread that don't agree with you, that you don't realize how stupid the shit is your saying.
Your missing the point dude, and then trying to debate with nonsense.
All I'm trying to do is get an update to the rules, it's a much needed update considering more than half of the community had never played on a big map in a league game, or had any idea they were allowed.
But your too busy trying to prove your right to even care about updating the rules...
Well, it's time to lock this thread.
Anyone who is unsure of a rule from this point forward, just check MI's games, if he has played in a similar style game, or made any quote about a topic, there's your answer... who needs rules. Just look up MI's quote from last summer, very simple process.
This community no longer has a say in anything, if MI played, it, or spoke about it, it's forever etched in stone.
Just lock the thread, it's clearly going no where.
-
Some schemes are defined within their map. For example Team17 requires to be played in a specific map. TTRR needs to be played in a narrow maze. If you make it wide, it won't be TTRR anymore.
@avirex,
What %60 of the community? You mean the poll in this (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/tus-discussion/poll-for-a-new-rule-29945/) thread?
The no option's description says the host has the right to trick you. Was that serious? It's like asking a child, do you want these coins that can spin on the table, or do you want this boring dollar bill made out paper?
-
plz delete tus site :D
(http://s018.radikal.ru/i524/1611/ac/b89c7ec45156.gif) (http://radikal.ru)
-
Tttr Can not be played on a big map? Sure it can, actually ninja camel made a big map ttrr that was still "narrow".
And t17 had to be played on cavern style map, why can't it be big?
You see...llee llee le le letttttt me sa sa sa say this s s s slowly...
You fools need to update rules, it's been talked about since tus was conceived, almost everyone tells you this... and I thought when I new MOD was discussed a couple years back, it was in hopes to get a MOD that will update rules as complaints come in and warrant changes...
MI, I thought you didn't want to be a dictator, but apparently you are... you have decided since YOU have played big shoppe map, that those are accepted. Senator decided because you made a quote last year about ttrr games big maps are not accepted...
But your more recent quote is they have to be narrow maps? Ninja camel has a narrow big map ttrr will that be accepted?
Does anyone see the point here? The rules should be updated. Or should we just always base the rules off what MI does, or says next?
PS: you never said how many coins your offering the child, I'm a gambling man, I would take the coins.
-
woah slow down avi, updating the rules is a bad idea indeed, it would be much simpler if we just looked up game chats of Monkey Island playing a shopper game back at say... 2015?
-
Don't forget quotes too husk...
I believe MI quoted back in the summer of 1992 sarcasm could result in a ban.
***warns husk***
-
Last time TUS did major change there were like.. 200 votes in the poll. And it actually didn't change anything, afaik, activity might have dropped since then.
Now couple of you busting mods balls over some big map shit for last 2 weeks? I wouldn't interfeer but it literally takes 1 sec to see if map is big or normal size. This site have bigger worries than this shit. Let it be.
-
Another person missing the point... the topic is updating the rules, map size is just an example dude.. wait another week and the will be a different example in complaint threads.. and senator will be making some ruling based off his emotions, or MI's quote from the winter of 03'
But while your at it, what's the sites bigger problems? A shitty set of rules? OK, I'm done responding in this thread...
It's obvious there is a clear divide, people who see the problem, and know there should be change.
And people who want to talk about map size.
-
As a side note, that quote was about wide Big RR maps that are used for Big RR scheme. I asked MI's opinion and then voided a TTRR game that was played on a map meant for Big RR scheme.
Over the last year, there has been complaints about avoiding players/schemes and now about big maps. We had discussions on avoiding and people (including me) suggested some rule changes but no changes have been made yet. While the current ruling may not be perfect, the changes people suggest have usually loopholes or lead to another problem. If I find a rule/practice that has been applied to this point, I can't make a new rule and apply that to the case (the current rules/practices are not so horrible that I couldn't apply them). I can suggest a new rule and start applying it to future cases.
-
Avirex this is your suggested rule:
"light bulb symbolizes acceptance of map and scheme 99% of the time, but in the case of unforeseen circumstances, it is the hosts job to make opponents aware of maps, scheme changes, etc. Failure to do so could result in void games"
Schemes already follow their own rule set. Failing to host with the official scheme can void the match. So we're only talking about the maps. What unforeseen circumstances? How do you distinguish a truly unforeseen circumstance from a fake one?
- I like to start the first turn. But right before we start teleporting I noticed that my opponent is having the first turn. Can I use the map excuse?
- I don't like the worm positions. Can I use the map excuse?
- We teleported, but my opponent took all the good spots. Can I use the map excuse?
- I messed up my first turn. Now I just realized this map is big and I don't like it. Can I use the map excuse?
And what is up with all these sarcasms? Are they supposed to wake me up and realize the depth of your issue? Your whole argument started because you failed to notice a thumbnail. You want to have an update in the rules rather than accepting a simple mistake. We get it dude. You made an HONEST mistake. You didn't know. WE BELIEVE YOU!! But an honest mistake is still a mistake. Accepting it doesn't make you any less of that tough guy you are. Trying to modify the rules so that it becomes the host's duty to inform you, that does.
-
Here.
1. Unforeseen Circmstances
Sometimes, when hosting a map you have downloaded there can occur unforeseen circumstances, this rule is here trying to help clarify the issue.
1a. Unforeseen circumstances are issues, that disturb regular game-play such as pixels on the map that hinder/block movement and actions, falsely set water level or wrong borders in schemes that need/don't need them.
1b. Unforeseen circumstances happen regardless of worm order, placement or outcome of turns. They are easily reproducible by any user by extracting the map via the right-click context menu of the replay and then loading it up in W:A.
Notes: 1a is basically giving examples of what they are disturb regular game-play, while 1b allows future issues that are similar but not mentioned to be applicable with 1b. because map issues are always reproducible by downloading and extracting the replay.
-
OK now that's good, Anubis.
Pixels that hinder/block are not detectable from the lobby, therefore count as an unforeseen circumstance. Please explain why "map sizes that differ from the norm" should count as an unforeseen circumstance? (because it can be seen from the lobby, within 1 second observation)
-
I don't know, I included it because it was branded as an issue you can't tell from the lobby, if it isn't then the point is irrelevant and can be removed. :)
I updated the text accordingly and also added "and actions". Because Pixels also hinder actions with weaponry.
-
MonkeyIsland... not one single person has said how they determine if its a big map. your genius idea was if the map is narrow in the thumb nail, its a big map.
ITS NOT TRUE.
in my experiences small maps in thumb nails, are small maps, and big maps in thumbnails require "click to accept"
it was not until recently that lalo, dainub, aladdin, and myself all realized differently.. how can you even argue that it was not an unforeseen?? Senator even said himself, he does believe i did not know about the big map, but because i followed the rules, and completed the game before i complained, i should not get a void game.
ironic.
but let me just say again, i don't care about that game, i care about clear rules. MI my rule was a quick write up, not a final copy, just a quick idea, but my rule did state that the host should announce any unforeseen things before game starts, so how can you ask questions like...
- I like to start the first turn. But right before we start teleporting I noticed that my opponent is having the first turn. Can I use the map excuse?
- I don't like the worm positions. Can I use the map excuse?
- We teleported, but my opponent took all the good spots. Can I use the map excuse?
- I messed up my first turn. Now I just realized this map is big and I don't like it. Can I use the map excuse?
if the host told everyone its a big map, the answer is an obvious no.
i have said it time, and time again that i don't care about that game, its nothing more than an example to prove a point... which i have proven... you have proved nothing, but continue to fight to be right.
MI, do you know what thread your in anymore?? this is a rule change thread... not a complaint thread.... do you know what your even arguing about anymore??? or are you just trying to attack me with your petty "avirex is a tough guy" comments... where did that shit even come from?
you guys are fighting that the rules do not need to be changed, there is no need to specify what schemes allow big maps, and what schemes do not, there is no need for a host to announce an abnormal map is being hosted, because your theory is... if you have any questions of the rules, just watch some of MI's games, and check quotes from last summer...
is that right? i just want to be clear, because honestly, im sick of arguing, this is obviously a losing battle...
even if you don't think that the host should make people aware when hes hosting a big map (despite majority thinking they should) at least make it clear what schemes allow big maps, and what schemes do not..... or do you want to argue with me, how thats not needed either?
Please lock the thread. your obviously right, and I'm wrong, there is no need to continue going back and forth i don't think.
-
just for avirex:
The map is something that has to be agreed on by both players/clans. If you host your pick and your opponent doesn't want to play on the first map you pick, you have to change the map. Try to agree on a map with your opponent if he/she/they disagree with your first pick.
If you (the host) don't change the map when your opponent(s) says he/she/they don't want to play on that map, then your pick will not happen.
If you're not the host, clearly, you don't have to agree with the map. We don't want an unending fight about the map though: suggest your own map to move things along. If you are being unreasonable with your own map request, then the host is entitled to a free win because you'd basically be refusing to play his pick. Make an effort to agree on a map. If you light up, then that means you agree on the settings (scheme and map). If the host refuses to change map after you request another map, remind him of this rule. If he still refuses to change the map, then there's nothing more you can do. You can quit the game. If the host reports a free win, just make a thread on the complaint forum and attach the chatlog from the game lobby (in your User/Logs folder).
this announcement gives you the right to refuse big maps. if someone tries to trick you into playing them, you are free to quit.
-
MonkeyIsland... not one single person has said how they determine if its a big map. your genius idea was if the map is narrow in the thumb nail, its a big map.
ITS NOT TRUE.
avirex, I'm really tired of this. I've never said that and I've explained that twice already, yet you talk like you haven't read a word.
If the thumbnail is narrow, it DOESN'T MEAN it is a big map. I've never claimed that. It means that the map is not normal-sized. Can't say its bigger or its smaller, but definitely not normal-sized.
in my experiences small maps in thumb nails, are small maps, and big maps in thumbnails require "click to accept"
it was not until recently that lalo, dainub, aladdin, and myself all realized differently.. how can you even argue that it was not an unforeseen?? Senator even said himself, he does believe i did not know about the big map, but because i followed the rules, and completed the game before i complained, i should not get a void game.
You said "small maps in thumbnails". Congratulations!! So you CAN detect small map previews after all!! When you see the thumbnail doesn't look right, tell the host:
- Y U NO Normal map?
- Me ONLY normal map
- No normal map, NO TUSY
Somebody show me an abnormal map with a standard thumbnail preview. That will give this discussion a direction.
-
Somebody show me an abnormal map with a standard thumbnail preview. That will give this discussion a direction.
1920x696 = 80.24 x 29.24
Any map with 80:29 ratio will look like standard thumbnail size?
PS: Just tell WA devs to add map size number preview on upcoming 3.8 update.
-
Somebody show me an abnormal map with a standard thumbnail preview. That will give this discussion a direction.
https://www.tus-wa.com/maps/map-79/
well, that's x2 1920x696 and looks like a normal sized map on game lobby.
-
How is this 1920x696?
https://www.tus-wa.com/maps/map-2059/
Am I missing smth?
-
@Triad, @Albino,
Same ratio will appear as normal size, but then the game will give the large map alert. I'm talking about an abnormal map disguise as a normal map. (without the game alert)
@Sensei,
[attachment=1]
-
Peja what exactly was the reason for that thread?
MI, I have said before that it should be possible to make big map that looks normal in thumbnail.. guess you don't read ether?
I no proof of it, but you have no proof otherwise.. I guess it's too much to assume the host should announce when hosting any map out of the ordinary. My bad.. I'm crazy.. let's just move on..
Anyway, you seen to be stuck on just big map in shoppe, what about other schemes? Do you plan to update those schemes rules with big map/normal map rules? Or should we just wait to see if you ever play a tus elite, roper, or t17 with a big map?
-
Sensei that map is 2200x1400, tus sites are lying.
Same ratio will appear as normal size, but then the game will give the large map alert. I'm talking about an abnormal map disguise as a normal map. (without the game alert)
Albino's map doesn't give the large map alert if your "map memory warning" is at default value (22.4 MB).
-
I do read avirex. I even quoted you and replied to that statement. Here's my quote, quoting you in the complaint thread:
I feel like if I wanted I can recreate the exact thumb nail. In a legal size map... unless I'm mistaken that's not a valid way to know of is a big map or not... so please tell me how you can be so sure as you say, so I can avoid these troubles in the future...
As far as I know the game generates the thumbnail. I see no reason the game allows you to make your custom thumbnail. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I guess it's too much to assume the host should announce when hosting any map out of the ordinary. My bad.. I'm crazy.. let's just move on..
Why is it too much for you to look at the thumbnail size?
Anyway, you seen to be stuck on just big map in shoppe, what about other schemes? Do you plan to update those schemes rules with big map/normal map rules? Or should we just wait to see if you ever play a tus elite, roper, or t17 with a big map?
Shoppers (including WxW) are schemes that can be played on big maps. It's not a rule, just something that has happened in years and nobody had a problem with it. If you are interested, I can check league games to see how many of them have played on big maps.
I've never stated that I'm the law or the games I've played must be considered one. Senator pointed to my games as a reference. Sorry if it offended you that much. :(
@Senator,
That's actually a good case. Maps like that can be abused yes. (since most people do not touch their default settings)
-
I do read avirex. I even quoted you and replied to that statement. Here's my quote, quoting you in the complaint thread:
I feel like if I wanted I can recreate the exact thumb nail. In a legal size map... unless I'm mistaken that's not a valid way to know of is a big map or not... so please tell me how you can be so sure as you say, so I can avoid these troubles in the future...
As far as I know the game generates the thumbnail. I see no reason the game allows you to make your custom thumbnail. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I guess it's too much to assume the host should announce when hosting any map out of the ordinary. My bad.. I'm crazy.. let's just move on..
Why is it too much for you to look at the thumbnail size?
Anyway, you seen to be stuck on just big map in shoppe, what about other schemes? Do you plan to update those schemes rules with big map/normal map rules? Or should we just wait to see if you ever play a tus elite, roper, or t17 with a big map?
Shoppers (including WxW) are schemes that can be played on big maps. It's not a rule, just something that has happened in years and nobody had a problem with it. If you are interested, I can check league games to see how many of them have played on big maps.
I've never stated that I'm the law or the games I've played must be considered one. Senator pointed to my games as a reference. Sorry if it offended you that much. :(
@Senator,
That's actually a good case. Maps like that can be abused yes. (since most people do not touch their default settings)
This guy cannot stop talk a bullsheet :/
COS he from https://www.tus-wa.com/groups/Pro/
Professional Roping Organization
in real
Professional Crying Organization
:D
Sorry if I did not hold back the truth :/
-
MI, we assume big maps are allowed. We're just asking to create a rule where a big map is not a surprise, to make the host to tell us. That's really simple to do! Isn't it? Not everybody will be paying close attention if a map looks weird on the thumbnail, personally I just light up without seeing the map too much since I never had to play big maps in a league game until now.
Can't believe it can be so hard to let people know if a map is big or not before the game starts. We're not asking you to cure cancer.
-
I think this topic wont get anywhere since mods have a different vision of classic league and classic schemes from where i started begginers werent hosting big maps on leagues but i guess its fine if tus wanna allowed this nothing we can do
-
We'll probably change the rules. Because of "the Albino case". It shows that a big map can appear as normal without any warning.
MI, we assume big maps are allowed. We're just asking to create a rule where a big map is not a surprise, to make the host to tell us. That's really simple to do! Isn't it? Not everybody will be paying close attention if a map looks weird on the thumbnail, personally I just light up without seeing the map too much since I never had to play big maps in a league game until now.
Can't believe it can be so hard to let people know if a map is big or not before the game starts. We're not asking you to cure cancer.
Yea I know what you're asking. My side is not that different from you. You say why is it a big deal for the host to inform? I was saying why is it a big deal to look at the thumbnail?
personally I just light up without seeing the map too much since I never had to play big maps in a league game until now.
You should be paying more attention to the thumbnail. You're playing a league, it won't hurt to pay more attention in the lobby. In fact, at least it saves you time. (going into the game, then realizing the size and rematching)
@RIP,
You're not contributing anything to this topic. Please stop posting similar messages.
-
Ok MI, but I think you also tired read and respond on him messages.
I do not mind if I will be obliged to talk in the lobby when I choose a bigger map.
-
Yes, it is easy to create a low sized big map with 80:29 ratio if you use drastically less colors on your map. For example, maybe not a big map but stilstill Shiny Stuff darts map had 12 or 16 colors in total. 'cause of that it's only 8.62kb
https://www.tus-wa.com/maps/map-10813/
Similiar thing should be doable for bigger maps.
-
MI, you missed the entire point, your so stuck on those past games, that you won't look to the future for YOUR league.
The rules need to be clear to everyone, not just the couple people here that have already been tricked (yes, we will most likely be more aware of thumbnail) but what about future players, old schoolers that will return, or just people that don't read tus forums, but still play tus?
You can tell me until your blue in the face, that I should have looked at thumb nail. but the fact of the matter is, why would I be watching out for something I never knew was allowed in the first place?
****newsflash***** the rule should be made for any unsuspecting people in the future, and other schemes rules should be made clear if big maps are accepted in those too.
To answer your question, the fact that this league is using MI games as references for rules, then expected me to know the rules.... rather than updating the rule book... yes, it kind of offends me.
Anyway... I'm glad your FINALLY seeing that the rule that when a host makes a big map, he should simply tell everyone is a big map "because of the albino case". Maybe you should consider saying somewhere in the rules what schemes can be played with big maps?
Or shall we just wait to see if a bunch of noobs start playing roper on big maps next year? If there is ever at any time tus games reported with big map in a scheme, that either no one complained, or flew under the radar... that will tell us what's legal now, and in the future.
OK... please, lock this thread... you have FINALLY realized maybe the one rule needs to be changed due "to the albino case" :) but your not going to see things differently on anything else, because your far too stubborn to take any advice from avirex.
I can't resist not posting to tell you how much of a dumb ads I think your being.. this thread is my rough guy kryptonite MI . Please....lock... thread...
-
The only solution for this is what i already posted. Set map size warning to 0 (always warn) and it will always display the map size. However its not really convenient because you always need to click on the thumbnail, BUT that ways it is ensured that you checked the map size.
-
The only solution for this is what i already posted. Set map size warning to 0 (always warn) and it will always display the map size. However its not really convenient because you always need to click on the thumbnail, BUT that ways it is ensured that you checked the map size.
doing 1 click looks more convenient to me than checking thumbnails though.
-
The only solution for this is what i already posted. Set map size warning to 0 (always warn) and it will always display the map size. However its not really convenient because you always need to click on the thumbnail, BUT that ways it is ensured that you checked the map size.
doing 1 click looks more convenient to me than checking thumbnails though.
this
-
Can someone write a module to display map size w/o need to do any clicks?)))
-
avirex, I haven't "FINALLY" realized your point of view. I'm aware of it. I believe it must be the player's responsibility to notice. The "host's responsibility" idea allows the player to be careless. It is a league game, both parties should pay close attention to what they're agreeing to and that includes 5 seconds thumbnail observation. The albino case, says it is possible for a big map to have a normal-looking thumbnail. While it is theoretically possible, but the odds of that happening is almost zero and we haven't had one single case of it in 8 years of TUS.
Furthermore, big maps for shopper/wxw has been used on TUS several times. That is not a new thing for TUS, only new to you. They didn't flew under the radar, they flew under YOUR radar.
Anyway I'm not gonna continue this debate, I've already wasted enough time on it. We're working on the rules.
-
of course it flew under my rader, considering big maps make up less then 1% of TUS games...
its really shocking that you wasted this much time debating this... and under no circumstance will you change your mind.
its such a far stretch to imagine that the host should give a simple reminder that he is going to host something that only occurs in 1% of all tus games?? lmfao
i do agree, that we should all pay attention in the lobby.... but "close attention" come on man... you never went and took a piss, or grabbed a drink, or smoked a cigg, or jacked your little dick during lobby??? its not like im saying that the host should describe each and every map style before each game.....
im asking that the host gives a friendly reminder he is going to host a style game that has came up less then 1% of TUS history...
anyway, nothing i say, or anyone else will change your mind, you made your mind up from OP.
lock the thread already dude? why keep it open? do i entertain you?? :D
anyway, congratulation on finally deciding the rules need some work..
can i give you a friendly tip?? you should update the rules as the complaints come in... when complaints come in, and you can not find a clear rule about it, you then make an update.
i mean, i will not claim to be an expert on this topic, but i would think thats a better idea then basing complaints off MI replays, and quotes... just sayin' :(
should rly lock the thread though, because im too stubborn not to respond to you. :D
-
I think about 10% of the shoppers I played was on bigger maps, it's fairly common avi.
I always considered the 'lightning up = agreeing to map'-rule a necessary evil. It can lead to messed up situations where the map is obviously flawed and the host persists in playing on. But the alternative is probably worse: either you scratch the rule and wait for ppl to sent in hundreds of complaints about ppl whining about the map in-game and quitting; or you make the rule as you say: that you are obliged to mention any significant alterations as the host.
Personally I wouldn't count bigger maps in shoppers and the like as a real deal-breaker (it's not in anyone's advantage? maybe just in wxw where it makes the map a lot harder, but wxw's are never played like this?); and the fact that the host must mention it.. I dunno, it feels like an extra step that ppl are gonna forget about it or feel that it's a nuissance (when playing good friends I find it pretty embarassing to ask them to check the scheme.. or map.., it's a matter of trust). So yeah I can see this rule implemented and then ppl not mentioning it in 95% of their games without prob. And then one day you come across an asshole who can't stand losing and finds a way to get out of a fair-and-square loss by pointing to this little text of rule; that was really just there to serve a guy who once upon a time came across an unexpected situation. It's not worth it in my opinion.
-
Do you honestly think that it's 10% hhc ?
I don't... I'm sure there has been well over 5000 shoppas played, and I would bet less then100 have been big maps.
Hhc, the rule would protect people on the case they start the game, and then realise its a big map, and want to rh, they would have that option... it would obviously not be justified to finish the game and never even mention a problem with the nap until you lose...
Also, you saying that there is no advantage in big map shoppe means you did not put much thought into it before saying that, and you also didn't read this thread.. (which I can't say I blame you)
In big maps, when you roping /dropping downward, the screen moves in a way I'm not used to, your worm can even fall faster then the screen keeps up. So if your not used to that, your at a disadvantage.
Also, there's some key combo, all + home? That will make the screen center, but in my experience it was very strange, and made me dizzy because it just bounced around so much with my every movement... not to mention in that specific shoppe, I didn't know what key combo it was too activate center camera... off you can say that's my fault I didn't know, and I'll agree to that... but who's fault is it that I didn't even have a clue big maps were played in Tus classic, so I had no reason to want to know... Not my fault I didn't know.. unless someone wants to come and tell me I should have been more knowledgeable about MI's past games/quotes.
Another disadvantage I can think of off the top of my head is how hard the crates are too find, and remember the path to get to them.... but some people have the crates finder patch, which I don't have or even know how to get... you can tell me it's my fault I don't have it sure.. but it's never been needed in classic Tus on the past.
Anyway, needless to say I don't agree with anything in your post. But np
This thread is useless anyway, MI is stuck in his ways.
-
Over 700 big shopper maps, out of ~ 9000. 7,77% big maps.
First TUS shopper on big map is this:
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-15172/
-
Over 700 big shopper maps, out of ~ 9000. 7,77% big maps.
First TUS shopper on big map is this:
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-15172/
Classic season 10... wow... now I see how the TUS community changed
EDIT1: As it goes for big Shopper maps, keep in mind you can also generate one via MapGEN, so... the percentages are useless IMO
-
7%?? whoa...
ok, yeah, host should not need to remind people when he hosts a big map, i did not realize big maps were played 7% of the time... jeez, i feel silly... lock thread.