If I am allowed, I just want to shed some light on 3 things.
1. You always put all your heart into the 1st match. Upon hearing that it's been all in vain, you will never play the 2nd round as good. Moreover, the person whose loss was spared instantly gains an immense boost in morale (just like Uruguay that won against Ghana in penalty shootout in 2010 after Ghana's goal was stopped by hands). So the argument that Adnan did "some great moves there" isn't fair in my opinion.
One example is drawing. I used to draw a lot. I would spend 10 hours of one bigger project. I would just be utterly demotivated to do the same as good again if it was destroyed. We all lost an essay that we spent a night on, you know this feeling.
2. One person said that Albus "agreed" to play rematch so he should be fine with it. Please show me a football player who was informed that his successful penalty was invalid, he must repeat is, and the footballer refused to do so... Nobody will refuse in a heat of a moment.
3. Komito, my friend, everybody knows you are a fantastic mod and that you have good intentions. No authority is needed here. You already earned everybody's respect. Winning is not accidental. The one who is better will win if you let them fight on a separate day, 4 days from now so that they can appear there both given 2nd chance for their morale to be the same. I think you know what's a right to do. I have damaged the good spirit of my own 2vs2 cup by my mistake, so I don't want the same to happen to this cup.
Heads up. We are all human beings. All good
Komito, I would like to hear your opinion for some specific cases.
1) an error in the scheme settings can be invoked by the loser when he was the creator of the room?
2) a scheme error that didn't benefit anyone can nullify a game?
Komito, I would like to hear your opinion for some specific cases.
1) an error in the scheme settings can be invoked by the loser when he was the creator of the room?
2) a scheme error that didn't benefit anyone can nullify a game?
Those are not specific enough, they are vague. You need to elaborate on the conditions and context.
Any alterations to the scheme will result in any reported games being voided and the players having to play again, if caught of course, as if we don't know something, we cannot act on it.
Any alterations to the scheme will result in any reported games being voided and the players having to play again, if caught of course, as if we don't know something, we cannot act on it.
This rule can be used by players with bad faith, eg, the host makes a deliberate change to the scheme settings, and if he lose, a third person (some of his friend for example) mentions the error in the scheme with the intetion of the game being being voided and the loser get more 1 chance. If he wins, he doesn't say anything, as these errors are not always noticed by moderators.
Prove to us that this wasn't just an aesthetic decision Komito. Obviously no one benefited from this little mistake.
btw, almost nobody checks the exact scheme options to the dot ever, how could Albus possibly spot that something was wrong?
Host games yourself if you don't wanna get zucked like that.
btw, almost nobody checks the exact scheme options to the dot ever, how could Albus possibly spot that something was wrong?
Prove to us that this wasn't just an aesthetic decision Komito. Obviously no one benefited from this little mistake.
Did you read everything I posted about this? I spent a while explaining everything.
Also, what does aesthetics have to do with it?
There is only one situation where I agree that the game must be void even after being reported, and it would be this: my opponent hosts the game using a scheme with wrong settings (eg, wrong SD time, wrong retreat time etc.). In this situation, if I lose the game and notice this after the game, I could ask for the game to be canceled. However, if I win the match, I might not want to cancel the game, otherwise I would be giving the one who caused the mistake (intentionally or unintentionally) an opportunity to have a second chance to beat me. But, taking into account the rule that Komito wants to apply, this player, who caused the error, would have a second chance to beat me because of an error I did not caused.
Komito, there is the following rule in the cup we are talking about:
Each round you can choose only one type of special/team weapon to use (...) If in one round you use more than one type of special weapon, you lose the round. For example, you can use 2 cows on round 1 and 2 pigeons on round two, but you cannot use cows and pigeons on round 1
I won my second match against the player Hal. However, in one of the matches I used a second special weapon (aqua sheep), the special weapon didn't touch anything (I threw it off the map). If we are going to follow the rule radically, my defeat should have been automatic. Maybe you didn't see this happening because you didn't was in the host and didn't saw the replay yet. What would your decision be about that?
there's no other reason to selfishly choose to replay the matches as it caused no harm, no advantages to the players.
Komito, there is the following rule in the cup we are talking about:
Each round you can choose only one type of special/team weapon to use (...) If in one round you use more than one type of special weapon, you lose the round. For example, you can use 2 cows on round 1 and 2 pigeons on round two, but you cannot use cows and pigeons on round 1
I won my second match against the player Hal. However, in one of the matches I used a second special weapon (aqua sheep), the special weapon didn't touch anything (I threw it off the map). If we are going to follow the rule radically, my defeat should have been automatic. Maybe you didn't see this happening because you didn't was in the host and didn't saw the replay yet. What would your decision be about that?
If this is true then yes, you would automatically lose that round.
The rule says:
"If you use more than one type of special weapon, you lose the round"
It does not say:
"If you use more than one type of special weapon, you lose the round, unless using the special weapon does not deal damage to your opponent or land, in which case it's fine".
I will need to check this game and if that actually happened that round will be your loss, however, this issue should be posted in the actual Cup page.
As I said, we can't act on things we do not know.
I mean, you done that just because you are cup moderator and your giant ego just can't let it go, this can't stain your mod integrity, there's no other reason to selfishly choose to replay the matches as it caused no harm, no advantages to the players.
It would be much better if you asked the players what they think instead of just arbitrary tell them to redo the matches. This, in fact, caused much more harm than good.
No, it wouldn't inherently be much better, that's your subjective opinion, which has absolutely nothing to do with what the goal is here.
Dario may wish to be more lenient in certain situations and i'd respect that, though we have discussed this specific scenario and Dario agrees about this specific situation:
(https://i.imgur.com/8tfl2WO.png)
I will only reply to what I judge important to discuss, cuz all I see is you bragging over and over of what you do and what you've done to worms in the past and bla bla, lot of people have done a lot for worms, I have done plenty, but I don't see the necessity to brag about it everytime I post. We know you love worms, you are passionate etc etc, bragger.
I mean, you done that just because you are cup moderator and your giant ego just can't let it go
"in a way that is directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining."
in a way that relates to or is associated with a particular person.
What are you saying? It is not a subjective opinion if I say that only the people who could have been harmed say whether they felt harmed or not, it's a fact, what we saw here is you decided for them, so you assumed this is the best for both, how can this be subjective at all?
It would be much better if you asked the players what they think or if the loser felt harmed
or not instead of just arbitrary tell them to redo the matches. This, in fact, caused much more harm than good.
This would apply if we consider someone mentally ill, unable to define right or wrong, good or bad, which clearly is not the case.
In other words: only someone interdicted or with a disability needs others to decide for them (in this case the legal guardian), you decided without even listening to their opinion so I stick with my statement that - yes, it would be much better to ask them.
@Komito, what would be your decision if Kaleu refused to play the rematch?
Would you:
1. Proceed Albus to the next round?
2. Proceed none of the players.
I don't think the game with 7 worms should be considered a game from this cup, because it wasn't played in accordance to the scheme settings. In this case, the scheme was tested and balanced for 8 worms, 1 less worms makes a huge difference, so a match with 7 worms can't count as a match for this cup. Yes, it isn't explicitly written, but in the scheme description and in every one of the past tournaments it was said that 8 is the number of worms. My mistake for not writing that down, many times some things seem so obvious that we don't even write down rules for some situations. I like the point about professionalism, and I think that if variations (intentional or not) are to be allowed, then it has to be explicitly said so in the cup description.
I also don't think the game should be played with 7 worms. But, as I said, it was an error caused directly by Komito. Me and Mega failed because we didn't saw the mistake, but it wasn't a mistake caused directly by us. Ultimately, Mega and I were forced to repeat the game because of mistake by a third person. So I think we should be asked if we wanted to repeat the game or not.
Yesterday I asked Mega Adnan on discord if he thought it was unfair that he lost because he played with 7 worms, and he replied as follows:
Albus - Hi Mega. I didn't ask at the time. But I would like to know your opinion. What did you think of komito's decision for us to do the rematch? Did you just play because it was determined by komito, or did you play because you really thought it was unfair to play with 7 worms?
Mea Adnan - Hae, well I wouldn't have mind the 7 worms. But since the rules are same for everyone, it wouldn't be nice if we just go with our own rules.
I wouldn't have minded playing with 7 worms. But since the rules are same for everyone, that would create a conflict if we go on our rules.
But still, it wouldn't be nice if someone won the game, and then in the end we realize that host made a mistake then repeating the game, then opponent wins.
I can rematch again if Albus wants to. (Even the last game was awesome with incredible knocks and tense etc. Please don't delete that stream recording, Komito was like surprised in that. :D)
Please don't delete that stream recording, Komito was like surprised in that. :D)
Komito, please be more concise. You are very wordy my friend!
This is an odd request, I wouldn't ask you to change how you write, I believe people should express themselves in whatever way they are comfortable with.
I don't, and won't write a specific way to make people comfortable.
Komito, please be more concise. You are very wordy my friend!
This is an odd request, I wouldn't ask you to change how you write, I believe people should express themselves in whatever way they are comfortable with.
I don't, and won't write a specific way to make people comfortable.
No, I didn't mean "how" you write, or your "style" of writing. Each person has their own unique way of writing. But never mind. This is not important.
Komito, please be more concise. You are very wordy my friend!
I'm sure some people don't read everything you write, not because what you write is bad (you say interesting things), but because you're too wordy.
I don't, and won't write a specific way to make people comfortable.
(...)
Though i'm sure those who actually care enough, take the time to read, and those who don't, well that's their choice really.
So let me get this straight: Albus and Mega`Adnan scheduled a cup match, Komito hosted it for them but zucked up the settings, so they had to play a rematch, which Mega`Adnan won. And since it's a legit victory for Adnan, why do they have to rematch again? I don't get it.
I realize it's painful for Albus to admit his defeat, but boy is it a deserved victory! Adnan did some incredible moves!
So let me get this straight: Albus and Mega`Adnan scheduled a cup match, Komito hosted it for them but zucked up the settings, so they had to play a rematch, which Mega`Adnan won. And since it's a legit victory for Adnan, why do they have to rematch again? I don't get it.
I realize it's painful for Albus to admit his defeat, but boy is it a deserved victory! Adnan did some incredible moves!
But you already had a rematch with the correct settings. You wanna keep playing until you win or what? That's not fair to Mega`Adnan.
Yeah, sucks to think you played a cup game and in the end you were playing a funner. But sorry mate, the cup is with 8 worms.
First game is null and void, as it was a funner according to the cup moderator:Yeah, sucks to think you played a cup game and in the end you were playing a funner. But sorry mate, the cup is with 8 worms.
You're just making up your own rules, which again, isn't fair to your opponent.
Is it worth canceling a game, for a mistake that wasn't caused by the players, and that didn't generate a feeling of injustice in any of the players?
There will hardly be a situation like this in the future. I invite you to look for a similar situation throughout the history of cups and tournaments in TUS, where a game was played with one worm missing and nobody noticed it during 1 hour of play, only noticing it after the game was reported. In other words, this is a very peculiar situation that will possibly never happen again.
Deadcode, if you played cup games not according to the scheme indicated, I have the right to delete your games, since they were played in a different scheme. I would advise you to replay all the games with whom you played in the band without unnecessary emotions. In any other case, if you refuse to change the scheme, then the games will not be counted again.
Lancelot, if you want to delete my games, go ahead. I will have no further interest in playing this cup if you do though, so go ahead and delete me from the roster while you're at it. I think Syc will want the same, as he agreed with me about the scheme you attached to the cup.
So you want to make a big deal out of it?
Why so much adherence to the rule if none of the players felt harmed by a mistake that was not caused by them and probably won't never happen again?
There is no proportionality in this decision. Adopting this decision is being very attached to the rules, to the detriment of the player's well-being.
I maintain my starting position and suggestion that in similar situations in the future, the game should be maintained.
If he found the first game fair and so did I, adding to the result of the second game, it's 3x2 for me.
First game is null and void, as it was a funner according to the cup moderator:Yeah, sucks to think you played a cup game and in the end you were playing a funner. But sorry mate, the cup is with 8 worms.
You're just making up your own rules, which again, isn't fair to your opponent.
I'm not making my rules. I just don't agree with the decision that was made. I'm trying to come to a deal that makes me and Adnan happy ok? I'm talking to him. If it's something he doesn't like, I won't want it either.
This decision does not revolve around you and Mega`Adnan, this decision affects everyone who participates in the Cup.
If the only participants in the Cup were you and Mega`Adnan, and there wasn't a cash prize, and it wasn't part of the official Cup rankings, i'd allow it. However it's not, so I won't.
As i've explained countless times, which you seem to keep ignoring, yes, it is worth voiding this game, because the importance and impact of that decision will affect more than just you and Mega`Adnan.
You are the one making a big deal out of it, all i'm doing is defending my decision and explaining why, you keep choosing to ignore the importance of why the decision was made.
Yes there is proportionality, i've literally explained why this decision and rule has been made after looking at the bigger picture and balancing equality for everyone.
For you it's 3x2, however to the Cup, as judged by the official Cup scheme, which is the only scheme that matters, it's 2:1 for Mega`Adnan.
I'm talking about the idea of the rematch, which he proposed too.
Wait, won't you allow it if we want to do a rematch? I did not understand.
Everything I'm going to expose is in accordance with my sense of justice. The rules are made by you. I will speak the way I would like it to be. So consider this as a suggestion for future situations.
I don't think it's fair to consider that game null, due to the mistake of a third person. Your fault was direct and commissive, because you were the host. Adnan and I act with omission and inattention. But the obligation to put the correct scheme belongs to the host. Imagine the work it would be, every time someone creates a game, you go out looking at all the scheme settings. The host is responsible for selecting the correct scheme etc.
Yeah, sucks to think you played a cup game and in the end you were playing a funner. But sorry mate, the cup is with 8 worms. Players should have noticed that as soon as the first round started, can't blame it all on the host since in a strategic scheme it is kind of expectable for players to be aware of where each of their worms is as soon as the round starts.
It's awesome that you guys decided to play an extra game :), can't wait for another amazing stream.
If I had been the host, I wouldn't be having this debate. I would take the blame, and the opponent would deserve a tech win for my mistake in selecting the correct scheme (not a rematch). If Adnan had made the mistake, the fairest would be for me to have the victory.
An individual cannot suffer the consequences of a third person error. Also, we must take into account that this affects the psychological of the player, who has to "win a second time" and endure the frustration of having your victory canceled and time wasted.
But then we can ask: if Adnan was not responsible for the error, just as me, he cannot be harmed by something he has not caused. That's why Adnan's opinion about it is important. Did he think he lost because he had 7 worms instead of 8? Does he think this error interfered with the result of the match?
Ok, you are contradicting yourself there a bit.
You started off by saying it's not fair to void the game due to the mistake made by a 3rd party.
Ok, we're ok so far, however then, you said because I am the host, you and adnan act with omission and inattention
It would be much better if you asked the players what they think or if the loser felt harmed
or not instead of just arbitrary tell them to redo the matches. This, in fact, caused much more harm than good.
If I am allowed, I just want to shed some light on 3 things.
1. You always put all your heart into the 1st match. Upon hearing that it's been all in vain, you will never play the 2nd round as good. Moreover, the person whose loss was spared instantly gains an immense boost in morale (just like Uruguay that won against Ghana in penalty shootout in 2010 after Ghana's goal was stopped by hands). So the argument that Adnan did "some great moves there" isn't fair in my opinion.
One example is drawing. I used to draw a lot. I would spend 10 hours of one bigger project. I would just be utterly demotivated to do the same as good again if it was destroyed. We all lost an essay that we spent a night on, you know this feeling.
2. One person said that Albus "agreed" to play rematch so he should be fine with it. Please show me a football player who was informed that his successful penalty was invalid, he must repeat is, and the footballer refused to do so... Nobody will refuse in a heat of a moment.
3. Komito, my friend, everybody knows you are a fantastic mod and that you have good intentions. No authority is needed here. You already earned everybody's respect. Winning is not accidental. The one who is better will win if you let them fight on a separate day, 4 days from now so that they can appear there both given 2nd chance for their morale to be the same. I think you know what's a right to do. I have damaged the good spirit of my own 2vs2 cup by my mistake, so I don't want the same to happen to this cup.
Heads up. We are all human beings. All good
2. One person said that Albus "agreed" to play rematch so he should be fine with it. Please show me a football player who was informed that his successful penalty was invalid, he must repeat is, and the footballer refused to do so... Nobody will refuse in a heat of a moment.
In fact, I didn't agree at all. I just did what was "ordered". No one asked what was my opinion or my feeling about having to play again and have my victory canceled. And that was what upset me the most. I felt terrible because it was like my opinion or what I felt about it didn't matter.
Now you are outright lying.
You did agree, you were not ordered to play that game there and then.
You did not even complain about this situation, or show any negative emotions about it whatsoever until the next day.
The fact that I don't express frustration immediately doesn't mean I'm not frustrated komito. Does anyone need to cry for you to know that this person is sad? When empathy. At that moment I wanted to do everything you wanted and then reflect on what happened.
The point is also that I am not psychic. There is no evidence of you telling me specifically that you had a problem during the actual entire ordeal.
Albus, you keep asking questions i've already answered...
Why can't you just read the thread again?
This is exactly why I got angry with you in our private conversation, you keep asking the same questions i've already answered over and over again, you are not actually listening.
Reached the conclusion in a few seconds? Do you think I was born yesterday? I've been hosting and moderating events in various video games throughout my life, this isn't a decision that happened in a few seconds. This has came from years of experience and success.
You didn't like it, you quit the Cup.
(...) and will not be swayed by any attempt at a guilt trip either.
What else can I do? I've answered everything you've asked and explained the reasoning behind the choice for playing the match again.
so what now? game will be replayed or what?
so what now? game will be replayed or what?
It will not be replayed a 2nd time as Albus quit the Cup, and would only be replayed again if both players agreed to void the currently standing match.
so what now? game will be replayed or what?If Albus and Mega want to play another game, I guess that in this particular situation it should be allowed.