This is a joke, so many avoiders and noobs bashers it's ridiculous, it seriously needs sorted it's am embarassment, how the hell can #1 be Casso against all those unknown players, I know I went 13-2 against klekamp in TRL TTRR but then I lost 13-2 to oldsock, but os didn't report in time the f@#!er.
I really like Hysteria, and although I get extremely pissed off with the noobs who do nothing but hide/pile/tele in water etc I was enjoying playing all the best Hysteria players, but looking at the statistics and the games the top 10 have played I cba anymore, it's a complete waste of my time when alot of the active players are noob bashing and avoiding the best players, the standings are just unrealistic and fake.
Can we seriously please make a rule against this sort of lame cheap avoiding and noob bashing?
the problem is that it's really hard to enforce it, the best we can do IMO is give those who noob bash bad publicity, screenshots and the such usually help so keep an eye open for when this stuff happens
DEATH 2 AVOIDERS, BURN THE NOOB BASHERS
It's ok for people who just play for fun, but I don't, I like to play at the most professional level, something which barely anyone actually wants these days, how can you expect people like me, who love to play so serious and competitive, to enjoy a Season where even #1 is a noob basher?
I don't care even if I reach PO and win, i'd want to win the Season overall as well... I seriously give up even trying anymore, what's the point, I feel it's getting out of control, and no one is gonna do anything about it...
I wish MI was more like how franz handles PO against lame cheap players...
someone make the NBP.
Noob Bashers Police.
well.. but it's kinda impossible to catch avoiders, he can always say he had to go or whatever...
what about hide/pile/tele as you mentioned... TRL is league, most of ppl play it for the win, so you can't avoid these 'noobish' moves.
I'm not a noobasher ! I always ask in AG who want to play TRL without knowing who will be my opponets and if only the players that aren't so good accept what can i do ? I avoid them ?
I love hysteria and i can play vs all. I only played 5 games with a my friend who (HE) asked me to play TRL and i accepted...
I hope that all the players who played against me write here that they accepted without constraints to play with me
I hide when i had bad position at start, is this lame ?
Sorry for my bad english, now i have to go bye bye
Quote from: Casso on August 12, 2011, 06:50 PM
I'm not a noobasher ! I always ask in AG who want to play TRL without knowing who will be my opponets and if only the players that aren't so good accept what can i do ? I avoid them ?
I love hysteria and i can play vs all. I only played 5 games with a my friend who (HE) asked me to play TRL and i accepted...
I hope that all the players who played against me write here that they accepted without constraints to play with me
I hide when i had bad position at start, is this lame ?
Sorry for my bad english, now i have to go bye bye
man casso is a nice guy its true... we played tel many times, he isnt an avoider
Casso is a good Hysteria player Komo.
Casso play TRL with me :D
I have a suggestion:
Change the Hysteria scheme in TRL:
Tele inf -> 4 teleports.
What about?
an alternative:
keep teleports infinite, and limit jetpacks. this way, the guy with the advantage can choose careful hides in which telepiles wouldn't be effective due to not having a clear scape route without a jetpack
Without jet inf, i cant to do jet attacks like f1, f2, f3, f5, f10 and f11 :/
best advice is to actively try to find players at the top and ask them TRL yourself.
not only do you feel good if you win and get points, but you help knock them down ;p
still, I believe what MI said about Casso being a good player, so don't take it personally Casso ;]
also, for each new TRL scheme, the TRL overall ranking needs to start somewhere.
but any future TRL season will use those overall ranking again to help combat this :]
Quote from: Casso on August 12, 2011, 06:50 PM
I'm not a noobasher ! I always ask in AG who want to play TRL without knowing who will be my opponets and if only the players that aren't so good accept what can i do ? I avoid them ?
Lier , I've always asked you for trl , and you never answer me
Quote from: ropa on August 12, 2011, 07:10 PM
an alternative:
keep teleports infinite, and limit jetpacks. this way, the guy with the advantage can choose careful hides in which telepiles wouldn't be effective due to not having a clear scape route without a jetpack
Quote from: Professor on August 12, 2011, 07:05 PM
Casso play TRL with me :D
I have a suggestion:
Change the Hysteria scheme in TRL:
Tele inf -> 4 teleports.
What about?
nah, those changes would change all the scheme tactic.
keep the scheme as it is , and keep the fun as i do , f@#! da points :D
Casso is pretty good player. To be honest, all at top stats are good.
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on August 12, 2011, 07:00 PM
Casso is a good Hysteria player Komo.
I am not saying he isn't mate, I know he is good, it annoys me I don't get a chance to play him and i've asked him 2 times now and no reply. He's a good player yeah but right now his stats show he isn't playing top players like me seba dubc phanton camper etc, we are all top 10 players but with 5-10 lose each, which is realistic, but #1 is just stupid atm, no offence Casso I know you are good mate, don't think I don't like you, or think less of you, I still respect you as a person, but right now you really gotta try and push to play better players, you will only improve mate...
It's just 10 days past. 50 to go. You're reading too much in the standings at this point.
Quote from: seBa on August 12, 2011, 07:43 PM
Quote from: Casso on August 12, 2011, 06:50 PM
I'm not a noobasher ! I always ask in AG who want to play TRL without knowing who will be my opponets and if only the players that aren't so good accept what can i do ? I avoid them ?
Lier , I've always asked you for trl , and you never answer me
You asked me to play TRL 2 times but all the times I was playing in Worm Olympics, another time Dmitry asked me to play but i avoided him for the same reason. Komo have never asked me to play...
I think that the Jetpack should be infinite because a lot of player use it with F1, F2..., eventually we can reduce the teleport but i like that scheme and "those changes would change all the scheme tactic." (Professor Dixit)
I spent a lot of time trying to write an avoiding rule for tus but everyone said I was retarded. Where were you then?
I find this thread very condescending towards Casso.
At the end of the day, asking someone twice (and as explained he was clearly busy) without luck is no grounds to base avoiding on.
I am in no way saying avoiding isn't a problem in general, but it is blown way out of proportion here. MI is right, it's too early to look into standings.
On top of that, you can only beat what is in front of you and he has clearly seized the opportunity for a quick start which in such a league (one scheme and specialists playing) is only a smart thing to do. If there is real grounds for evidence that he (and others, given that the whole league is accused 'TRL wtf...') has been avoiding then hands do need to be held up and changes made such as stricter limits, greater amount of different players you must play against.
But to single out and voice so strongly about the whole standings at this point is a bit extreme.
i was thinking the same thing... why such an extreme post after only asking casso twice.... thats not very many times to make such accusations.. especially during Worms olympics, and only 1/6 of the way into the season...
but if he truly is avoiding (the 16 players he did play do seem to be on the lower end) that is a problem :o
There is no rule against it even if he was avoiding. Can't blame Casso or anyone else that avoids or noob bashs.
The community for the most part doesn't want a rule against it.
https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/tus-discussion/avoiding-rule/
Yeah like I said before, I will just play noobs and avoid pro's from now on, it's not illegal so whatever :)
Komo wants to be part of what he considers to be the problem :)
lol
That was sarcastic, but I am seriously considering it, I mean, why not lol, so many other players are doing it, it's like the new fad, if you don't noob bash you are a noob...
Quote from: Komito on August 15, 2011, 06:48 AM
it's like the new fad, if you don't noob bash you are a noob...
Consider double-checking the text you wrote before sending it, because sometimes it's way exaggerated.
In my opinion, should do well ... match before the game starts (and not in telecow jetcow), so if we can avoid such prearranged noobshi komo as our friend said.
What did Dulek say about double checking, Phanton?! :D
i am making a new hysteria scheme.
I am not a teletactic hater or anything.
Its annonying when i do some gj and after i suffered a f8.
F8 is useless, sometimes teletactics are beautiful and needed. But f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 for me is lame. Like not reaim in BnG.
My new scheme will have:
- 4 teleports only.
- Jetpack with less retreat (i am testing what power will be more interessant).
When i should end i ll post here for all.
Quote from: Professor on August 15, 2011, 06:30 PM
i am making a new hysteria scheme.
I am not a teletactic hater or anything.
However, is annoying a person does a gj and after this, f8 in himself.
F8 is useless, sometimes teletactics are beautiful and needed. But f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 for me is lame. Like not aim in BnG.
My new scheme will have:
- 4 teleports only.
- Jetpack with less retreat (i am testing what power will be more interessant).
When i should end i ll post here for all.
(http://blogs.westword.com/showandtell/00cool%20story%20bro.jpg)
/darkz :D
ok ty camper i laughed so much that i became tired ;)
Now, i finished my suggestion about Hysteria scheme:
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/download/file-557/
Like i said before, i dont hate the f8 wormers. But with this 2 changes the game becomes more strategic:
1. only 4 teles
2. jetpack retreat 3 secs.
Pls test it!
i think darkones idea with random worm order was much better, tbh... i never tried it, but it seemed like a nice solution to the problem...
limiting the tele is just not practical... sometimes you start the game in all shit spots, and have to use 4 teles just to get the game going... i have seen games where each team teles right off the bat, all 8 worms get teled to differnent spots lol....
tbh, im not sure why its random placement, it should be tele placements to start the game, as in elite... just an idea.
Quote from: avirex on August 16, 2011, 02:22 AM
i think darkones idea with random worm order was much better, tbh... i never tried it, but it seemed like a nice solution to the problem...
limiting the tele is just not practical... sometimes you start the game in all shit spots, and have to use 4 teles just to get the game going... i have seen games where each team teles right off the bat, all 8 worms get teled to differnent spots lol....
tbh, im not sure why its random placement, it should be tele placements to start the game, as in elite... just an idea.
Quote from: avirex on August 16, 2011, 02:22 AM
tbh, im not sure why its random placement, it should be tele placements to start the game, as in elite... just an idea.
indeed putinho!
Please, don't try to modify hyst scheme, it change totally the gameplay and the strategy xd
if We will change hysteria to manual placement, some ppl will complaint that We want to become hysteria a bng game.
The random placement gives a surprise for game.
@avirex: the tele number is the same as worms number.
If u will play hysteria with 3 worms, will be 3 teles.
If u will play hysteria with 4 worms, will be 4 teles (tus default).
Quote from: Dulek on August 15, 2011, 11:19 AM
Quote from: Komito on August 15, 2011, 06:48 AM
it's like the new fad, if you don't noob bash you are a noob...
Consider double-checking the text you wrote before sending it, because sometimes it's way exaggerated.
Well done Sherlock, that was the whole point...
I think histeria scheme should be modified in 2 respects
Teleport Placements at start of the game and Random turns !
That will be an excellent scheme
Hysteria is Fine, Just everyone Picks shit maps with alot of Hides.
Everyone Conplains about the maps i pick, because there is no where to hide.
Play Hysteria on 2 island map with a bridge in the middle, It cuts the crap and makes for a good game BnG skills included
I love hysteria as it is.
Komo, this is not bng dude...
With only 1-2 changes this will be bng and that's what we don't want.
It's not my/his/her foult because you don't want to use tactic called "telecow" or something.
naaa Krezo, i limited the tele number but still is possible do teletactic.
What i saw is that many people only play hysteria using f8 f8 f8 f8 f8 f8.
Man, f8 all time is unfair. Its like not reaim before each shot in bng.
I was starting to get really into hysteria but the scheme obviously needs a revamp. Random turn order was definitely an improvement. Instead of people constantly ploping there own worms why not use just 1 worm per team and 200 health? Just a suggestion since it usually always ends up 1v1 anyways and its not a real advantage to have lots of worms.
you guys are always 'aa f@#! stupid luck scheme'... Now you wanna put random worms. So?
Leave it as it is. If you guys cant stand at pilling, who cares. IT IS hysteria
Quote from: Camper on August 16, 2011, 02:13 PM
you guys are always 'aa f@#! stupid luck scheme'... Now you wanna put random worms. So?
Leave it as it is. If you guys cant stand at pilling, who cares. IT IS hysteria
When i heard it i think "aiaiaiaiai if there isnt tele inf how can i win?"
No one is saying "no piling in hysteria". Just we are saying "porra lets play, stop f8!"
@Dub: if 1vs1 i believe that will be bng... In WO Gal hosted this one and i dont like it...
@Random turn: i guess nice but the scheme becomes lucky :/
worms selection at the beginning of turn
pros:
-having more worms actually is a good thing
-suiciding without inflicting grave damage / push is dumb
cons:
-you have to be fast to select the right worm and pull of an attack
conclusion:
you actually have to kill your opponent's all 4 worms, rather than just the one that didn't commit suicide. plopping yourself becomes a fail, not a tactic.
select worms in start requires 1 sec more i think but isnt bad idea :)
I was able to change worm + jetpack + lg + nade, it wouldn't be hysteria if we had 2 secs.
Let's face it, hysteria is a noob friendly scheme: anyone can do jetpack + mine. Having to plan and hit the tab key x amount of times before you choose your weapon, aim and shoot, would actually require the player to pay attention to the game. In the honor of hysteria, it would continue what this scheme is all about, trying to do stuff u never thought possible all in 1 second turntime. I admit something like tab+jp+lg+nade+fuse would be a hell to pull off, but thats what hysteria is all about.
Quote from: Husk on August 16, 2011, 02:40 PM
worms selection at the beginning of turn
pros:
-having more worms actually is a good thing
-suiciding without inflicting grave damage / push is dumb
cons:
-you have to be fast to select the right worm and pull of an attack
conclusion:
you actually have to kill your opponent's all 4 worms, rather than just the one that didn't commit suicide. plopping yourself becomes a fail, not a tactic.
Good idea but I would hide 3 of my worms so they cant b damaged n fight 1 worm at a time
Quote from: Dub-c on August 16, 2011, 03:11 PM
Good idea but I would hide 3 of my worms so they cant b damaged n fight 1 worm at a time
Well you'd be fighting over the odds then. I mean, it's not like you have any advantage going 4v1 with Husk's scheme
ii would say he does.... husk having 4 worms out to fight does not improve his accuracy, or percentage to hit...
but it does improve dubs percentage to make a hit.... obviously much easier for dub to attack 1 out of 4 worms.. then husk to only be able to hit 1....
dub > husk :p
good point =P
However, I would share the same accuracy and percentage to hit with dub;
He would have to hit the tab key 3 times to have his attacking worm's turn.
If I wanted to choose the worm that is in biggest danger from dub's attacks, I would have to press the tab key 3 times aswell before choosing and aiming my weapon. However, I don't have to use the specific worm, I have 3 other worms out there on the roof that I can use without stressing with selecting the right worm at the beginning of every turn.
There's more you could do in such a situation; You could move your worms to safety, be it the potential victim or all of your worms or you could confront opponent's hidden worms.
I rly don't know how this would work, I havn't given it a good test.
Quote from: avirex on August 16, 2011, 03:26 PM
ii would say he does.... husk having 4 worms out to fight does not improve his accuracy, or percentage to hit...
but it does improve dubs percentage to make a hit.... obviously much easier for dub to attack 1 out of 4 worms.. then husk to only be able to hit 1....
dub > husk :p
And yet Husk can shoot from 4 different positions whilst DubC is restricted to one, much easier to defend against.
With the worm selecting if the "3 tab press" worm is in danger, so it's hard to select and do anything by him in time, you can counter-attack scaring your opponent with the ability of killing/damaging one of his worms. Then if he tryes to save his worm, it becomes easier to save your worm, which was "3 tab press" before (the amount of tab presses becomes less then 3). Also he still can kill/damage your "3 tab press worm", but then you can revenge him by killing/damaging the worm you've been coming close by the counter-attack.
Quote from: Husk on August 16, 2011, 04:00 PM
good point =P
However, I would share the same accuracy and percentage to hit with dub;
He would have to hit the tab key 3 times to have his attacking worm's turn.
If I wanted to choose the worm that is in biggest danger from dub's attacks, I would have to press the tab key 3 times aswell before choosing and aiming my weapon. However, I don't have to use the specific worm, I have 3 other worms out there on the roof that I can use without stressing with selecting the right worm at the beginning of every turn.
There's more you could do in such a situation; You could move your worms to safety, be it the potential victim or all of your worms or you could confront opponent's hidden worms.
I rly don't know how this would work, I havn't given it a good test.
Definitely worth testing out imo.
Quote from: Husk on August 16, 2011, 02:40 PM
worms selection at the beginning of turn
pros:
-having more worms actually is a good thing
-suiciding without inflicting grave damage / push is dumb
cons:
-you have to be fast to select the right worm and pull of an attack
conclusion:
you actually have to kill your opponent's all 4 worms, rather than just the one that didn't commit suicide. plopping yourself becomes a fail, not a tactic.
I agree this seems to be the best "solution'.
Another hyst cup experiment?
someone host in WO some tourney then :D
I believe that select worms in Hysteria will change all the gameplay but could be nice.
The most important is change the scheme anyway. I am tired to play this scheme like it is now. Hysteria deserves to be a better scheme, yes!
Quote from: Dub-c on August 16, 2011, 01:59 PM
I was starting to get really into hysteria but the scheme obviously needs a revamp. Random turn order was definitely an improvement. Instead of people constantly ploping there own worms why not use just 1 worm per team and 200 health? Just a suggestion since it usually always ends up 1v1 anyways and its not a real advantage to have lots of worms.
ehhh
http://2010w.wormolympics.com/t58#results
Quote from: Krezo on August 16, 2011, 11:17 AM
Komo, this is not bng dude...
With only 1-2 changes this will be bng and that's what we don't want.
It's not my/his/her foult because you don't want to use tactic called "telecow" or something.
I never said it was BnG and I don't want it to be BnG, if I want to BnG, I will BnG lol.
Piling is good, what I don't like is people hiding under/sides trying 10-20 times for 1 good shot then acting like they own, it's even worse when they plop their 1st worm just to pile all game, I don't like that kind of piling. But when I play for example Dub-C we will pile each other but remain on top making it more "skill".
I don't like to hide because I prefer Hysterias to be under 10 minutes per game, I just enjoy it that way.
And for the record for about the 4th time, I said you are a good player Krezo and I like you, I just don't like your tactics lol, I don't have a bad thing to say about you cuz you done nothing wrong, I hope there isn't a problem between us cuz I am cool with you mate :)
Well, the telenade (PX®) could be an alternative to teleport and it might help avoid these things people complaint about
Everybody who thinks BnG is about cool shots, take a piece of paper, and write this 50 times a day:
"Hysteria is not 1sec BnG. Hysteria is not style BnG. Hysteria is not about cool shots."
Boy I'm fed up with this infectious disease. People wanna draw you a line "How you must play", "You must play the tactic I like", "That move is lame to me, so I change the scheme to eliminate lameness", "He is noob because he defeated me with telecow, a pro beats me with a nice shot."
Why can't you just accept that some tactics are lame, some are nice. Why can't you leave it at that? Do you think you are a good hysteria player? Then you will beat your opponent no matter what. The time you spend on changing the scheme, you could improve yourself in hysteria, you could improve yourself in tactics against telecow. Spend your time trying to solve the question, not to erase the question.
You nor me MI have the authority to make such claims about how the scheme is played. What I can tell you is that Run didn't have in mind a scheme in which telepile and darksiding was the usual.
Solve the question as opposed to erasing it, well, imagine we lived in anarchy state of chaos. Should society aim to become super elite bountyhunters capable of killing bandits with their bare hands or should the efforts be focused in trying to restore democracy?
If you think the hysteria scheme is fine as it is that's a very valid oppinion but saying people should just learn to cope with its flaws isn't a valid argument.
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on August 17, 2011, 08:48 AM
Everybody who thinks BnG is about cool shots, take a piece of paper, and write this 50 times a day:
"Hysteria is not 1sec BnG. Hysteria is not style BnG. Hysteria is not about cool shots."
Boy I'm fed up with this infectious disease. People wanna draw you a line "How you must play", "You must play the tactic I like", "That move is lame to me, so I change the scheme to eliminate lameness", "He is noob because he defeated me with telecow, a pro beats me with a nice shot."
Why can't you just accept that some tactics are lame, some are nice. Why can't you leave it at that? Do you think you are a good hysteria player? Then you will beat your opponent no matter what. The time you spend on changing the scheme, you could improve yourself in hysteria, you could improve yourself in tactics against telecow. Spend your time trying to solve the question, not to erase the question.
well said :}
Hysteria is hysterica says it all, you go crazy with tactics or telecow jetcow, but this is already part of the game, hence the name hysteria ... and hide the sides of the map trying 10-20 times as Komitas said, is a tactic, spend time as MI said forcing his opponent to rise to the battle, but I think changing the scheme hysteria, hysteria would be .. . come to be near an elite (2 tele) hysteria would be changed with a tele 4 shit, if you do not have time or patience to play 10 or 20 minutes hystria Alt + f4 gg and ready ...
not change
BnG is not Hysteria. Everybody knows it. But Hysteria is not f8 race too.
Imo the Hysteria must to be a mix of nice shots (BnG) with handling capacity.
Hysteria needs to be change. Each day Hysteria becomes a annoying scheme, with excessives darksiding and teletactics and less skiilz.
If hysteria doesnt change, the better to do is delete its from classic league.
Quote from: ropa on August 17, 2011, 09:10 AM
If you think the hysteria scheme is fine as it is that's a very valid oppinion but saying people should just learn to cope with its flaws isn't a valid argument.
This is a great line.
Its pretty dumb to say too bad this is how the scheme is live with it. The NFL is one of the worlds greatest professional sports organizations. They make changes to their rules every year trying to make the league and game even better.
Its progression. As time changes rules also need to change and the game change.
Why not try to make schemes better instead of living with their downfalls just because.
Quote from: Phanton on August 17, 2011, 12:35 PM
Hysteria is hysterica says it all, you go crazy with tactics or telecow jetcow, but this is already part of the game, hence the name hysteria ...
[citation needed]
(I'm positive Run didn't consider telepiles (stop calling it telecow, it doesn't make sense, it's not ilegal) and other form of cheap ass tactics when deciding the name)
edit: for the record, he didn't even plan it as a league scheme so it's normal there's a bunch of things that could do with a tweak to make it a more specific league scheme. This is an example of what I've been trying to say all these days, you made a poll and people decided to vote hysteria in the league, but at what point did you sit down and ask yourselves "is this scheme going to work?". I'm not sure how much experience you have with democracy, but by now you should've realized that evne if people voted to include hysteria as a league scheme look how many are already realizing it might not be the best of ideas, in its current state, do you think these people are going to be responsable and take the blame for the voting? No, they'll blame Obama.
There's no real argument to defend its current state for league competition, other than "it's always been like that", it's funny, since it's the attitude you condemn so much here in TUS, and you're doing the same (sorry to generalize). In fact, some of you are even making up fats to support your one and only argument: "I don't want to learn how to play Hysteria again".
My question is, why didn't this discussion take place before including the scheme in the league?
Because no one gives the least of a f@#!, people voted, ergo they'll play it ergo activity raise. TUS line of thought.
well i guess that there is a place for Hysteria in Classic League yet.
But is hard to play because dont care what a nice game u did, always a teleport comes to crash our game (in hysteria).
Imo limiting teleports and jetpack retreat could help. There are 2 changes that wont change the Hysteria experience.
Quote from: Professor on August 17, 2011, 01:10 PM
well i guess that there is a place for Hysteria in Classic League yet.
But is hard to play because dont care what a nice game u did, always a teleport comes to crash our game (in hysteria).
Imo limiting teleports and jetpack retreat could help. There are 2 changes that wont change the Hysteria experience.
I don't think limiting the teleport is the answer.
Quote from: Dub-c on August 17, 2011, 01:48 PM
Quote from: Professor on August 17, 2011, 01:10 PM
well i guess that there is a place for Hysteria in Classic League yet.
But is hard to play because dont care what a nice game u did, always a teleport comes to crash our game (in hysteria).
Imo limiting teleports and jetpack retreat could help. There are 2 changes that wont change the Hysteria experience.
I don't think limiting the teleport is the answer.
Limiting teleport doesnt avoid teletactic but this isnt the intention.
Hysteria must to have teletactic, sometimes hysteria becomes bng and u need something to change it.
But if limit teleport we will be avoiding players that has the finger sticked in F8 key.
*insert overly defensive post, pointed at ropa*
Nah, just kidding :) Just wanted to point out ropa's been part of the crowd that helped test hysteria in its very beginning and that
Quote from: ropa on August 17, 2011, 12:54 PM
(I'm positive Run didn't consider telepiles (stop calling it telecow, it doesn't make sense, it's not ilegal) and other form of cheap ass tactics when deciding the name)
is also the idea I got about Run when he started hysteria. Hysteria was made to have radically chaotic and hysterical gameplay; that means at least 4 players with plenty of worms in an ffa and preferrably lots of screwups. Especially the 6 player chaosfests were a blast :) Only rule is the gentleman rule: don't kill someone's last worm if other players still have plenty of worms left.
Since this discussion still seems to be very much alive, I think I'll just keep hosting hysteria cups with random turn order :) See if this sways the public attitude towards the scheme (or not) or even if it's just for the few people that prefer hysteria like that.
i believe dark1s scheme is the answer to the hysteria problem....
next season there should be 2 options of hysteria, and whoever has pick, can choose which scheme they prefer (not the if everyone agrees thing) that way everyone tries the scheme, and see for them self if its good or not... THEN you can have a vote which scheme will remain...
while we are at it, lets force a better rope scheme... if its w2roper, or a variation i dont care.. but lets try something new.. its obvious roper, and hyst need some serious help
Avirex, w2roper is perfect solution, You have to change it in classic league, just do it ae :D
about Dark's hysteria, i gonna host a tourney in WO with his scheme, lets rock!
i like how hysteria is so complex and free. there are so many ways to play the scheme. it's fun, and it's competitive.
even if Run who created Hysteria didn't consider telepiles, who has the authority to say they are even a bad thing?
piling exists and is accepted in many schemes as a tactic like piling in roper, piling in elite, piling in shopper, piling in wxw.
why should piling in Hysteria get such a bad reputation? only because it wasn't from a rope? or axe?
and still, piling isn't even the only way to play Hysteria. you can win without piling a single time. that's fun to explore too.
don't misunderstand me either. I'm not saying Hysteria should never ever be changed.. but this discussion is still very new and raw. I just don't see a simple solution/compromise yet that everyone can agree on, since there are many people who like the scheme how it is.
What if there was a 2nd rotated league specializing only in new schemes/settings? it could even be informal, like lasting only 1 month or maybe even 2 weeks, no playoffs. people could vote like between Hysteria(some new setting, limited tele?), Roper(some new setting, w2?), Elite(some new setting, giga mole?), and/or others. this could at least keep a record of these style of games played for people to analyze if needed.
Quote from: franz on August 17, 2011, 04:47 PM
and still, piling isn't even the only way to play Hysteria. you can win without piling a single time. that's fun to explore too.
The people asking for change are saying exactly that, sir!
Quote from: DarkOne on August 17, 2011, 04:58 PM
Quote from: franz on August 17, 2011, 04:47 PM
and still, piling isn't even the only way to play Hysteria. you can win without piling a single time. that's fun to explore too.
The people asking for change are saying exactly that, sir!
right, but what I'm also saying is, people should be allowed to play that piling strategy too. I encourage every strategy.
Telepile is just not another strategy, it's one that takes very little skill and goes against the flow of the game like in team17. And it does so because killing worms isn't actually an achievement or a handicap, it's just a process in which to make the game shorter. Killing worms should be encouraged by the rules of the scheme whose aim is to kill all worms.
That's why most people don't see it as an strategy per say, because it's easy to achieve, and because it gives those losing a hypothetically unfair advantage. Obviously, there's some that consider teleporting a worthy skill, and teleporting with precise aim when losing could be considered on the same level as a comeback zook or nade, but that'd be being to technical for the sake of fun.
vn Ropa, u said all about Hysteria.
i agree with telepile when the game is "darksided", in other words, when the worms are far away and the only way to get them is telepilling.
However, when i play against some players, all that i see is f8, f8, f8, f8.
Limiting teleports will valorize the weapon. When someone thinks to make a telepiling, will be strategic.
In others schemes the pile is useless because in these schemes You are able to dissolve the pile and shot it (with rope knock, with shotgun skillz,...)
Quote from: ropa on August 17, 2011, 05:18 PM
Telepile is just not another strategy, it's one that takes very little skill and goes against the flow of the game like in team17. And it does so because killing worms isn't actually an achievement or a handicap, it's just a process in which to make the game shorter. Killing worms should be encouraged by the rules of the scheme whose aim is to kill all worms.
That's why most people don't see it as an strategy per say, because it's easy to achieve, and because it gives those losing a hypothetically unfair advantage. Obviously, there's some that consider teleporting a worthy skill, and teleporting with precise aim when losing could be considered on the same level as a comeback zook or nade, but that'd be being to technical for the sake of fun.
Quote from: DarkOne on August 17, 2011, 03:47 PM
Nah, just kidding :) Just wanted to point out ropa's been part of the crowd that helped test hysteria in its very beginning and that
Sorry I need to troll this! Quick ropa, change your name to hysteria. Now you have 2 schemes under your belt ;)
Quote from: ropa on August 17, 2011, 09:10 AM
If you think the hysteria scheme is fine as it is that's a very valid oppinion but saying people should just learn to cope with its flaws isn't a valid argument.
You didn't get what I meant. My bad.
I see it as some way of expectation spreading. If I do pumps, skidows and butterflys in league wxw, can I call my safe-roping opponent lame? how about adding rule to wxw that in each turn you must do at least one advanced trick? You know safe-roping is so boring and lame. All I'm saying is, if you wanna do pumps in wxw, practice them, master them and use it like shadows in your game and own your opponent but don't try to add a pump-rule to the game.
Quote from: Professor on August 17, 2011, 01:10 PM
But is hard to play because dont care what a nice game u did, always a teleport comes to crash our game (in hysteria).
This is one of great examples of misunderstanding of hysteria game play. (Not pointing at your professor).
See how do you call it a nice
game turn if a teleport crashes your game? I tell you how! because you are seeing hysteria as another version of BnG. There are many times in hysteria, I have a chance to kill a worm, but if I do that, my opponent will telepile in the next turns. So as killing that worm could a be a
nice BnG turn, but it will be a
dumb hysteria move. IMO this is one of the lines that separates Hysteria from BnG.
Quote from: ropa on August 17, 2011, 12:54 PM
(I'm positive Run didn't consider telepiles (stop calling it telecow, it doesn't make sense, it's not ilegal) and other form of cheap ass tactics when deciding the name)
If I'm not wrong, this must be Run's page about Hysteria which he clearly considers telepiles: (see Worm rotation abuse)
http://wahelp.worms2d.info/scheme-hysteria.php
Quote from: MonkeyIsland
If I'm not wrong, this must be Run's page about Hysteria which he clearly considers telepiles: (see Worm rotation abuse)
http://wahelp.worms2d.info/scheme-hysteria.php
i stand corrected, but still, he still didn't design the scheme with it being abused in mind, because that's something that started happening as people started realizing it was the cookie cutter easiest way of winning and not from the begining of the popularization of the scheme
Quote from: MonkeyIslandIf I do pumps, skidows and butterflys in league wxw, can I call my safe-roping opponent lame?
No, but you can call him lame for hiding on easy hides on top of the map. Just because there's a line to be drawn doesn't mean it's either black or white.
but Hysteria is Hysteria sir Monkey.
In hysteria You can to move in any place, you can to run, to walk, to use acid molotov...
BnG is just hidding and skill shotting. Hysteria has more gameplay.
What me and some friends are talking is that many people abuse of telepiling. Some times anyone can to take a telepilling. Hysteria is able to it. But telepiling after telepiling... some cases one player can to win only some teles, jets and mines. Where is skill in this?
I tested playing with straight up and down walls on each side. Seems to play better to me.
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-81570/
Update: Been playing more with this map style. Really liking it and positive feedback from people I am playing with. Try it out for yourself!
+1 MI
Quote from: Professor on August 17, 2011, 11:13 PM
What me and some friends are talking is that many people abuse of telepiling. Some times anyone can to take a telepilling. Hysteria is able to it. But telepiling after telepiling... some cases one player can to win only some teles, jets and mines. Where is skill in this?
There's no skill yes, but absolutely wrong tactic of the player who let this to happen. There are many Hysteria players out there who won't let this to happen. Off the top of my head, have you played with SPW? Try to telepile on him turn after turn.
Why should you let piling happen in the first place? Learn tactics against piling, instead of making rules to ban piling.
If you're not convinced yet, please show me a replay of hysteria with someone who is abusing teleping.
Hmm MI, I wouldn't so much say, tele abuse, as to more, being boring using tele all the time lol.
Teleing and jetpacking around the map is the only funny thing at hyst. MI posted good thins there jaja!
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on August 18, 2011, 08:04 AM
(...)
Why are you not addressing the problem directly but instead choose to address ways in which people can avoid facing such problem?
Yes, telepile can be countered. Might as well allow sitters since you can hide in places were those can't happen, or you can overcome them by, simply put, owning your opponent.
I rather read actual argumentations as to why this "feature" makes the scheme more competitive or better, because I've already stated why I think it's the complete opposite.
If you could do that whilst at the same time stop people from making stupid "i agree" posts that add absolutely nothing to the debate then you'll be looking at an overall improvement for this thread.
I tested playing with straight up and down walls on each side. Seems to play better to me.
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-81570/
http://wormolympics.com/t458#results
Update: Been playing more with this map style. Really liking it and positive feedback from people I am playing with. Try it out for yourself!
MI, I understand ur viewpoint. Some times we can to avoid telepiling but when You pile ur own worms to avoid it, You cant to move ur worms to attack, so the enemy does darksiding with wind zookas. So the game becomes boring.
I played agains Warg yesterday. When Warg kill 1 worm mine, he plop himself in the next turn. That's so roflmao. Is it the Hysteria's objetive?
Games with Warg Uzurpator Dmitry..... and all Che clan are not funny....... just ploop your worms...... games with them you can start 1 worm vs 1 worm xD
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on August 18, 2011, 08:04 AM
Off the top of my head, have you played with SPW? Try to telepile on him turn after turn.
Why should you let piling happen in the first place? Learn tactics against piling, instead of making rules to ban piling.
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-81191/
The best tactic against turn order abuse is killing a worm of your own :)
SPW shows that here (twice)
Quote from: Professor on August 18, 2011, 12:20 PM
MI, I understand ur viewpoint. Some times we can to avoid telepiling but when You pile ur own worms to avoid it, You cant to move ur worms to attack, so the enemy does darksiding with wind zookas. So the game becomes boring.
I played agains Warg yesterday. When Warg kill 1 worm mine, he plop himself in the next turn. That's so roflmao. Is it the Hysteria's objetive?
Did you even read my f@#!ing post? I pretty much solved the darksiding wind zook. Its not rocket appliances.
lol amigo there are a lot of posts yours here :P
if i must to kill myself to win a game this its absolutelly freak. I can not play anymore worms xD
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on August 18, 2011, 08:04 AM
Quote from: Professor on August 17, 2011, 11:13 PM
What me and some friends are talking is that many people abuse of telepiling. Some times anyone can to take a telepilling. Hysteria is able to it. But telepiling after telepiling... some cases one player can to win only some teles, jets and mines. Where is skill in this?
There's no skill yes, but absolutely wrong tactic of the player who let this to happen. There are many Hysteria players out there who won't let this to happen. Off the top of my head, have you played with SPW? Try to telepile on him turn after turn.
Why should you let piling happen in the first place? Learn tactics against piling, instead of making rules to ban piling.
If you're not convinced yet, please show me a replay of hysteria with someone who is abusing teleping.
Quote from: Chelsea on August 18, 2011, 12:23 PM
Games with Warg Uzurpator Dmitry..... and all Che clan are not funny....... just ploop your worms...... games with them you can start 1 worm vs 1 worm xD
Haha, our 3v3's with che earlier were class, the 2nd game was my fault I missed my turn, I would have tele'd but whatever they were fun games :)
No solve it.
I said a lot of times:
If i pile my worms avoiding teletactic the enemy will do darksiding.
How i am being smited because some ppl have lag brain, then i ll say clearly:
HYSTERIA NEEDS TO CHANGE PORRA.
It is unbelievabul that We are discuting rules like "plop ur own worms", this is not profissional. This is against the game sense.
I can stop to talk now, but more and more ppl go here and complaint it.
Many schemes changed with time, Roper changed, Shopper changed, but when someone say "change hysteria", the f8 gang comes here to smite anyone that agree with me.
If this comunitty is "democratic" so respect my voice.
Damnit.
Quote from: Professor on August 18, 2011, 07:24 PM
No solve it.
I said a lot of times:
If i pile my worms avoiding teletactic the enemy will do darksiding.
How i am being smited because some ppl have lag brain, then i ll say clearly:
HYSTERIA NEEDS TO CHANGE PORRA.
It is unbelievabul that We are discuting rules like "plop ur own worms", this is not profissional. This is against the game sense.
I can stop to talk now, but more and more ppl go here and complaint it.
Many schemes changed with time, Roper changed, Shopper changed, but when someone say "change hysteria", the f8 gang comes here to smite anyone that agree with me.
If this comunitty is "democratic" so respect my voice.
Damnit.
Have you tried playing a hysteria with flat sides? If so how did they darkside?
Quote from: Dub-c on August 18, 2011, 08:45 PM
Quote from: Professor on August 18, 2011, 07:24 PM
...
Have you tried playing a hysteria with flat sides? If so how did they darkside?
I never tried that, sounds like a good idea. Gotta try it (=