The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Worms: Armageddon => General discussion => Wormkit Modules => Topic started by: cgar on September 08, 2021, 02:20 PM
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Some might already know of https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/display-weapons-on-intermediate-stream-32128
It's a separate app often used by streamers to keep track of weapons used by each team.
It would be really cool to have the functionality for this built in. It is often useful to keep track of what your enemy has used, especially in strategic schemes.
Some manage fine with just their memory, others use notepads. Having the functionality in game would allow everyone to focus more on the game and less on keeping track of a physical or mental list.
Something like having the weapons panel have tabs for each player, such as the ones that show in replays with the colours of the teams. clicking the teams colour would change the weapons panel to a kind of notepad for that team, prefilled at the match start with weapons from the scheme, which you could then click to decrement when you notice that they have used something.
Especially compelling would be the ability to have it do so automatically, subtracting automatically from the totals any time it detects a weapon is used.
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I would find this idea sensational. It would make my gaming experience much more enjoyable. I usually take notes of what the enemy uses on paper or smartphone. Having this option integrated into the game would be awesome!
The idea of switching between panels and click to decrement when you notice that they have used something is very good. The other option, which is the game to automatically count, although I'm not against it, I think there are people who might consider that this will make the game "easier".
I fully support the idea, whether the control of what is used by the enemy is done by me manually, or is something automatic.
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That is definitely going too far for competitive games.
Seriously guys c'mon, stop trying to make things too easy for everyone, one of the reason this game is so good is because it has a really high learning curve!
There must be a reason they don't include stuff like this in ANY of the games that I know of, please correct me if i'm wrong.
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I am ok with it and I kinda the Idea.
But what about what other have said about numbering every worms order? Wouldn't this also be the same? Not being able to remember which worm it is next? Now we have suggestion to make something for us to remember what weapons other team used and have? I am just pointing out this little thing which others have said or may say.
Again It's kinda cool I am down for it as longest you can turn it off.
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That is definitely going too far for competitive games.
Seriously guys c'mon, stop trying to make things too easy for everyone, one of the reason this game is so good is because it has a really high learning curve!
You mean the automatic counting? Perhaps yes. I think it can make things easier. But manual counting, I see no problem. Many players already do this. The only difference is that some do it on paper, others use the chat window (which makes difficult to use chat for something else) etc. The idea of cgar would just be to allow us to do this in-game, and remove the need for many to do this outside of the game. That way we can keep 100% of our attention just on the game screen, and we can get more immersed in it.
There must be a reason they don't include stuff like this in ANY of the games that I know of, please correct me if i'm wrong.
I played for quite some time, competitively, a very famous MOBA. There was the option for you to PING to create a reminder when the player used a spell.
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Having to actually put the effort in to write it down, and do it correctly, doing it as fast as possible when players tab through their worms at 100mph like Dario is actually a skill.
Having AI to do this automatically for you is, at least in my opinion, pathetic.
The other, more important problem is, since this guy started making modules at the request of everyone, literally everyone is gonna want this, then that, then the next thing, until we aren't even playing the game manually anymore. Everyone will want their own thing(the thing they can't be bothered doing properly).
It's an unhealthy path you are heading on.
Edit - Worms franchise Albus, not other games outside the franchise. My bad for not being specific enough.
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There was a cheat which showed every teams weapons and it was banned in competitive games of course. Do you want this in funner games? Ionno.
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Having to actually put the effort in to write it down, and do it correctly, doing it as fast as possible when players tab through their worms at 100mph like Dario is actually a skill.
Depending on the method chosen, there is almost no effort involved. I, for example, use a messaging app to keep track of what the opponent used. And I don't even have to type anything. I only need to hold the word for 1 second and it will be marked, indicating that the opponent used a certain utility. In fact, the idea of cgar, in theory, would give me a little more work than what I do at the moment (it would take a few more seconds and more clicks). However I prefer his idea as it would allow me to be more immersed in the game environment.
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I wish modules would have to be approved by official staff or something before even being allowed public.
This is getting ridiculous having a module for every little thing that makes the game challenging because people don't want to put the work in.
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Should a player feel that its important to self-flagellate with endless tedium to scratch their masochistic urges then they are welcome to do so, in that case they simply neglect to press install on the module.
Other people who want to focus on the actual game instead of Dr Kawashima's Brain Training: WA Edition will very likely be overjoyed with such a module.
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Komito, coincidentally, I'm supporting things you don't like. I'm sorry for encouraging things that for you are bad for the game. But, I place a high value on things that make the gaming experience more enjoyable, as long as the line separating it from cheat is not crossed.
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Should a player feel that its important to self-flagellate with endless tedium to scratch their masochistic urges then they are welcome to do so, in that case they simply neglect to press install on the module.
Other people who want to focus on the actual game instead of Dr Kawashima's Brain Training: WA Edition will very likely be overjoyed with such a module.
F**k off cgar :D :D :D
Your perspective is literally to make the game less challenging because you don't want to put the work in, it doesn't matter if people can choose not to use it, because others will. That is the problem. Everyone is asking for their own personal module for the things they subjectively don't like, and looking at the bigger picture it's degrading the effort and skill required for competitive games.
I don't give a f**k about what people do in funners, though these modules people want to use for fun in turn can and likely will be used by some people in competitive games.
Keeping track of what weapons people have used is literally one of the fundamental skills in the entire franchise, it is extremely selfish to want to degrade that for everyone because a minority 22 years into the game want to make things easier because they are too lazy to put the effort in.
It shouldn't happen in the first place, and I sincerely hope it doesn't happen.
Komito, coincidentally, I'm supporting things you don't like. I'm sorry for encouraging things that for you are bad for the game. But, I place a high value on things that make the gaming experience more enjoyable, as long as the line separating it from cheat is not crossed.
It's a shame these things you personally think are enjoyable, is actually degrading to the skill of this game.
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Perhaps someone should just make wkKomito. A module that asks you to solve a soduku puzzle or other tedious extraneous nonsense before every move within 10 seconds. Fail it then you get the wonderful prize of self-flagellation. With code that monitors your webcam to make sure you do it. And scans your filesystem to make sure there is nothing that allows focusing on having fun.
For everyone else, there's wkWormOrder and wkWeaponTrack to maximize the ratio of fun to tedium.
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Komito, i watched two of your cup streams where my friend played. I've noticed that you had trouble keeping track of what weapons were used during the turns, took long time to update the weapon display or even marked some weapons wrong. I'm sure that such module would benefit your streams, since it would remove a huge burden of keeping the track of mundane things.
Are you sure that this module is a bad idea?
The weapons that are marked wrong is because Dr.Abegod designed the app to be used for Intermediate, not 80hp, so we don't have the right icons, we're hoping he can make a version for 80hp.
We manage to get the right stuff used most of the time, it's more of a guideline for viewers. I'm actually glad there are mistakes made sometimes because that means anyone trying to watch the stream and cheat could get the wrong information. :P
@cgar - You are lazy, just admit it.
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Oh yea this would be great for streams. I bet a bunch of streamers would love this then. They could just spectate the game and flip through the weapons panel to see whats been used.
@Komito You are a masochist, JuSt AdMiT iT.
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@Komito You are a masochist, JuSt AdMiT iT.
To reach his level at BnG, I assume he is at least a little bit :D
EDIT: but then the correct term would be sadomasiquite? Never mind. :-X
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Masochists are fine. Sadists though, no thanks. Never been into bdsm, especially if its Komito.
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make it happen!
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In intermediate I've won and lost so many rounds because of human mistakes when tracking weapons/utilities usage. So yes, such a module would definitely erase one skill that many times gives the more invested player an edge. But if that module is going to be written, then I guess it's better if everyone has access to it.
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In intermediate I've won and lost so many rounds because of human mistakes when tracking weapons/utilities usage. So yes, such a module would definitely erase one skill that many times gives the more invested player an edge. But if that module is going to be written, then I guess it's better if everyone has access to it.
I think your concern has more to do with the module tracking automatically, right?
If it's done manually by the player, it wouldn't be a problem for you, right? The module would just transfer what some already do on smartphone, paper etc and make this possible within the game. Cgar's suggestion included this as well: "Something like having the weapons panel have tabs for each player, such as the ones that show in replays with the colors of the teams. clicking the teams color would change the weapons panel to a kind of notepad for that team, prefilled at the match start with weapons from the scheme, which you could then click to decrement when you notice that they have used something".
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yes, was talking about the auto-tracking idea.
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Writing down used weapons and utilities on a piece of paper is bad for the environment. Think about how much paper was wasted during those 22 years!
Joking aside, I'd really like to use this module, so that I will be finally able to chat with a team mate in 2v2 games.
(https://i.imgur.com/ctqErMN.jpg)
When I'm playing an important game, I do this: on whatsapp, I have a list of weapons. I just hold the name of the weapon used for 1 second to highlight it and mark it as used. I also can copy there the order of the enemy team (which I can get between rounds - some people know how to get it during the round, but I don't know). In other words, the modules just makes possible to see inside the game what can be done outside the game and do not require any skills.
Anyway, I believe that the idea of this module and wkWormorder will only make public something that is already done discreetly by some players.
PS: I know this can be considered lame for some people. But I don't have such a good memory, so I do it. I don't consider myself worse than anyone in the game because of that per se. Worms is not a memory game.
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Alternative idea: add an extra textbox somewhere in game chat where we could type this stuff.
Yes. That would be nice too. That way I could write what the opponent used in the game etc., and still be able to use the chat to talk.
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I will quote this post from the other thread as it's relevant to both:
The ignorance here is shocking. :o
Making statements like "violent reactions from league players to even the simplest and harmless quality of life improvement".
Maybe it's harmless to some of you, maybe some of you don't care about the integrity of competitive gaming. I do, and others do as well.
What I see, are people who want the easy way out, who are not prepared to go the extra mile that hundreds of players have in the past few decades, making things "easier" is not always the best thing to do.
The issue isn't that some people want QoL improvements. Any QoL improvement made because a few people want something made easier is forcing their QoL improvements on everyone.
The sheer ignorance and disrespect of someone saying "Just because I use it, doesn't mean you have to use it" is absolutely selfish! Why should anyone get an advantage over people who want to play naturally because they simply don't want to put the effort in or simply don't enjoy it?
Also saying "If everyone has it, it makes it fair", again, the problem isn't even about what's fair, it's that many people who don't want it will be forced to accept it!
This wouldn't be a problem if it could be kept separate from leagues, though that isn't possible.
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I'm sorry, but I really don't understand conservative people. I know TUS is a democratic environment, though.
This discussion seems more like what's happening in Brazil right now, a huge wave of people fighting to not use the brazilian voting machine which was a huge progress in our elections system, and still works very well. Our voting machine was used as reference in several other countries that inspired on us. And many brazilians still insist in a retrograde model just to imitate the USA system that many citizens of that country complain (and usually takes a very long time to count votes).
This game has already 22 years and still doesn't have such simple quality of life module because always have some people being conservative, that don't understand that things evolve and are always changing.
For me being against this module is like saying:
"Why using cars or bus? Lazy people! Go walking! Why using a smartphone? Get the telegraph back!"
In League of Legends you can just press a button to see which build the enemy is doing, so you can build in a way to counter that build. Imagine memorizing all stuff everybody is doing just because it is part of the skills of the game... We are talking about something everybody already does with paper (it is a sign that the community wants this)... Memorization can be a skill but in practice it just make the gameplay worse, because people do dumb moves because forgot that the enemy still had 1 transport tool left.
As people already said, a streamer should be the first person who would like to support this idea...
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I'm sorry, but I really don't understand conservative people. I know TUS is a democratic environment, though.
This discussion seems more like what's happening in Brazil right now, a huge wave of people fighting to not use the brazilian voting machine which was a huge progress in our elections system, and still works very well. Our voting machine was used as reference in several other countries that inspired on us. And many brazilians still insist in a retrograde model just to imitate the USA system that many citizens of that country complain (and usually takes a very long time to count votes).
This game has already 22 years and still doesn't have such simple quality of life module because always have some people being conservative, that don't understand that things evolve and are always changing.
For me being against this module is like saying:
"Why using cars or bus? Lazy people! Go walking! Why using a smartphone? Get the telegraph back!"
In League of Legends you can just press a button to see which build the enemy is doing, so you can build in a way to counter that build. Imagine memorizing all stuff everybody is doing just because it is part of the skills of the game... We are talking about something everybody already does with paper (it is a sign that the community wants this)... Memorization can be a skill but in practice it just make the gameplay worse, because people do dumb moves because forgot that the enemy still had 1 transport tool left.
As people already said, a streamer should be the first person who would like to support this idea...
This is nothing like what is happening in Brazil right now.
This is not simply a QoL module, it isn't about people being conservative, it's about protecting the integrity, skill ceiling, and learning curve of this game! You act like we are refusing to change things that actually need to be changed. This is something that does NOT actually need to be changed, we do not need this module.
Also, how can you call it a "QoL" improvement, when it degrades the quality(An essential or distinctive characteristic.) of a very important part of strategic schemes which is the skill of manually keeping track of turn order and weapons used.
Also, I am a streamer, and I don't support it, i'm so against with every fibre of my being.
As mentioned by Deadcode when we were chatting about it, it would be via a scheme option built-in to WA. Then those who want it, can use it, and those who don't want it, don't have to use it. It could be used as an alternative version of a scheme that players could agree to, though if there isn't an agreement they would have to use the mandatory version.
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I may have exagerated a bit talking about voting machines, I know... But I just wanted to express my feeling when I see some people preserving things that doesn't make sense to me. The arguments sound absurd to me.
Memorization is used in Blindfold Chess (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindfold_chess), a game with very high learning curve and plenty of skill on this. Most people still prefer to play normal chess because they simply don't want to learn that difficult learning curve in memorizing something when they can simply "open the eyes" and play normal chess without being afraid to make dumb moves because they forgot about one single piece. Memorization has nothing to do with the tactical aspects of the gameplay. It is just memorization skills.
Concentration game (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration_(card_game)) (in portuguese we call something like "Memory game") is a game which relies pratically only on the memorization skills. There is no big strategy in it.
WA can be played with 6 players free for all games and yes, I see this module as a quality of life.
I don't think this should be a scheme option, it is really something that should already be coded in the game. I know some schemes like Team17 work differently than Intermediate, but it is good to know at least which weapons the enemy used.
I already suggested that the game should also inform the mine fuse, the weapon powers, the scheme rules and any other scheme (v3.8 or not) feature while in game. This way we wouldn't need to remind players about mines and they could check any differences while in game. Maybe people would accept better different weapon powers and other stuff they usually are conservative.
EDIT: by the way, memorization is often avoided in education when possible, because in the past (in the present this still happens, but a bit less) memorization of dates, names, formulas and many other stuff used to appear in big exams and after the exam people usually forgot all that stuff, many didn't even know how to explain importants things of the subjects, they only trained their memory and passed (or not).
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Blindfold chess is a perfect analogy for this nonsense! :D
If you can do it with a pen and paper then it is extremely silly to deny the exact same functionality from being built in.
Its like Komo is the living embodiment of the over the top tedium guy from that old xkcd meme. http://xkcd.com/378/
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Did someone mention politics and voting? 8)
After months of peace someone had to use politics to compare something to a Worms game.
*cracks fingers*
As a conservative I support changes that are of benefit for the community :)
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Writing down used weapons and utilities on a piece of paper is bad for the environment. Think about how much paper was wasted during those 22 years!
Joking aside, I'd really like to use this module, so that I will be finally able to chat with a team mate in 2v2 games.
(https://i.imgur.com/ctqErMN.jpg)
Hahah nice, I'd rather use Google Keep as I use it for many other purposes, you can make one of those checklists that is much more intuitive. In whatsapp you can risk missclick and lose all your markings.
[attachment=1]
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I don't understand why you need so much acceptance to implement features that we already abuse but with help of external tools, same applies to opponent worm orders, there's many methods to do so, don't worry about it. ;D
My thoughts are that those who are against it are afraid that they could no longer rely on the possibility of human error from their opponents (when they forget to write or lack of attention of weapons used) to get some sort of advantage over them.
Then there's those who never write anything (me included), this module can place us in the same level, increase the fun and lower effort.
If you go and say this decreases the skill cap and became unfair for those who have dedicated themselves a little more to the game: what skills are we arguing about? The skills of holding a pen and using it? LOL.
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My thoughts are that those who are against it are afraid that they could no longer rely on the possibility of human error from their opponents (when they forget to write or lack of attention of weapons used) to get some sort of advantage over them.
I lost count of the times I lost a game because I didn't write down what the opponent used. I find it very boring and that's why I only do this in most important games. I wanted to be able to focus only on the game screen and increase my immersion in the game, without having to use external resources.
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I'd rather use Google Keep as I use it for many other purposes, you can make one of those checklists that is much more intuitive. In whatsapp you can risk missclick and lose all your markings.
Another idea that we can use while people create obstacles:
(https://i.imgur.com/ld4fZB3.png)
This is the app streamers use to keep track of weapons used by each team. You can download it at https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/display-weapons-on-intermediate-stream-32128
You download a software to make this window stay "always on top" and click on the weapon icon when the oponnent uses it.
The downside is that it pollutes the game's interface a bit.
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Yeah, forgot to mention my reasons are the same! I don't do it because it's already extremely boring to just to think that I have to do it outside the game, and it feels even more "extreme" when I remember that I have to sacrifice immersion, take hands off of my keyboard, my mouse, take my eyes off the monitor which can lead me to even more unforgivable mistakes than not writing down the weapons (miss which worm played, miss more weapons used).
These modules would prevent all of that and increase the fun, making us to focus totally on the game screen potentiating what really matters (intelligence, creativity, game sense and effectiveness), we would enjoy an objective and less mechanical gameplay.
I will finish by saying that I want to win on my merits, my smart strategy etc and not because I mishandled the use of ropes and my opponent forgot to write it down or missed it while writing another weapon I just used. If I mishandled, I should face all the consequences and vice versa.
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I will finish by saying that I want to win on my merits, my smart strategy etc and not because I mishandled the use of ropes and my opponent forgot to write it down or missed it while writing another weapon I just used. If I mishandled, I should face all the consequences and vice versa.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/YRuFixSNWFVcXaxpmX/giphy.gif?cid=790b76113f216617c21a79cb92679048b394495461a2062c&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
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Memorization has nothing to do with the tactical aspects of the gameplay. It is just memorization skills.
If this quote is aimed at WA, you are wrong:
Memorization means to commit to memory, to learn by heart.
Most aspects of this game is using your memory, it's the biggest fundamental skill of this entire franchise.
You must learn and memorize all the weapons, how to use everything, the terrains and soil types.
Your body and mind will memorize how to rope.
You must learn worm order, and your opponents worms.
You must pay attention and memorize what your opponent does, and based on their skillsets and abilities attempt to predict their future plans.
Almost everything about this game involves memory skills. Which is exactly why this is so important.
WA literally uses your memory for everything whether people realize it or not, it's a skill that cannot(and/or should not) be avoided, and was built that way.
I don't think this should be a scheme option, it is really something that should already be coded in the game. I know some schemes like Team17 work differently than Intermediate, but it is good to know at least which weapons the enemy used.
Why don't you make your own game or play another one then instead of compromising one that has already existed fine for over 20 years?
I already suggested that the game should also inform the mine fuse, the weapon powers, the scheme rules and any other scheme (v3.8 or not) feature while in game. This way we wouldn't need to remind players about mines and they could check any differences while in game.
In leagues, people should be reading the rules and actually studying stuff before even playing. Laziness should not be rewarded or catered towards.
If you are talking about funners, sure, the method Deadcode mentioned would help players who haven't played before, and i'd be ok with that as long as it doesn't affect competitive games.
EDIT: by the way, memorization is often avoided in education when possible, because in the past (in the present this still happens, but a bit less) memorization of dates, names, formulas and many other stuff used to appear in big exams and after the exam people usually forgot all that stuff, many didn't even know how to explain importants things of the subjects, they only trained their memory and passed (or not).
Education is literally memory, both mentally and physically. Education literally means the process of acquiring knowledge, developing the powers of reasoning and judgment, and generally of preparing oneself or others intellectually for mature life. Everything about this is using memory.
Edit:
I lost count of the times I lost a game because I didn't write down what the opponent used. I find it very boring and that's why I only do this in most important games. I wanted to be able to focus only on the game screen and increase my immersion in the game, without having to use external resources.
So, because something is subjectively boring and overly challenging to some people, and because it causes them to lose some games, you want to make that easier? It's part of the game, it was designed that way!
Do you think everybody should have their own personal module which makes the thing they don't like easier?
Do you think it's better for the game that every little minority can dramatically change fundamental aspects of the game, regardless how others feel about it?
Where does this end? What is the limit?
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Komito, why not leave it up to the players?
If any opponent of mine, from any league, lets me use a module like that, what's the problem? It's his choice.
Do you really want to win knowing you only won because your opponent doesn't like or forgot to write down what you used? If I know that my opponent can counter my misuse of utilities (the module will show this information), it will definitely be a much more difficult and challenging game for me. I'd rather win a game this way than win because someone forgot or finds it boring to take notes with pen and paper etc.
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Komito, why not leave it up to the players?
If any opponent of mine, from any league, lets me use a module like that, what's the problem? It's his choice.
If we let every individual person or minority make decisions, this game would be absolutely kaotic, I cannot even begin to imagine how bad it would be, or how bad it could become.
I actually think these decisions should be made by Team17 if i'm honest.
Do you really want to win knowing you only won because your opponent doesn't like or forgot to write down what you used? If I know that my opponent can counter my misuse of utilities (the module will show this information), it will definitely be a much more difficult and challenging game for me. I'd rather win a game this way than win because someone forgot or finds it boring to take notes with pen and paper etc.
I don't want them to fail any more than I don't want to fail, however failure is part of the learning process, we learn and adapt through our mistakes it is what makes us better if we care enough. You don't judge a man by how hard he falls, it's how well he picks himself back up.
I don't respect people who want the easy path for selfish reasons, that's just me.
If everyone liked the same thing, life would be boring. You're fighting your side, i'm fighting mine.
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I don't want them to fail any more than I don't want to fail, however failure is part of the learning process, we learn and adapt through our mistakes it is what makes us better if we care enough. You don't judge a man by how hard he falls, it's how well he picks himself back up.
It's not about failing. There is no difficulty in taking notes on what opponent uses. It doesn't require skill for that, just a pen and a paper, software, app etc. Here we show several ways to track enemy utility usage and enemy team order.
The point is that these are methods that take our immersion out of the game, and if the module brought that information, the game would be more fun and challenging, and we could just focus on the game itself.
Anyway, I would like to hear people's opinion on this topic: https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-ARMAgeddon/private-module-33565/msg281013/?topicseen#new
If figuring out the order of the enemy team and tracking what the opponent used is not difficult, then I assume that a private module for this cannot be considered cheating, correct? So can these people make modules like this? If not, who's going to analyze game by game to see if anyone used a private module?
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If there is absolutely no difficulty, why do you need a module?
Pffffft! :D
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If there is absolutely no difficulty, why do you need a module?
Pffffft! :D
Because, like I said multiple times, it's boring and takes my immersion out of the game.
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Too good so far we are the majority and you are the minority you were talking about, Komito.
In overall, I don't think the intention of people is cheating, if it were the case, anyone can pay less than 5$ in a freelance site for some crazy russian or indian to code multiple modules (who can guarantee there's not some of these going around?)
Private modules are real boys.
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If there is absolutely no difficulty, why do you need a module?
Pffffft! :D
Because, like I said multiple times, it's boring and remove my immersion of the game.
You just said it isn't difficult at all, you don't need a module. Difficult also means hard to please or satisfy.
So are you lying, or just uneducated?
@donnie, a handful of people is not a majority when i'm talking about the entire player base, not a handful of selfish people on a forum thread.
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Difficult also means hard to please or satisfy.
No. Difficult is something I'll have trouble executing (which is not the case with taking notes on what the opponent used).
Difficult to satisfy is something just... unpleasant?
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Difficult also means hard to please or satisfy.
No. Difficult is something I'll have trouble executing (which is not the case with taking notes on what the opponent used).
Difficult to satisfy is something... just unpleasant?
Difficult also applies to being hard to please or satisfy. Look it up.
You are still being subjective either way, as am I to be honest, though at least i'm not trying to force people to change something that plays as it was intended to be played because I don't personally like it.
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You just said it isn't difficult at all, you don't need a module. Difficult also means hard to please or satisfy.
So are you lying, or just uneducated?
(https://i.imgur.com/ymITknH.png)
I'm using it in the first sense (1).
You gave me only two options: liar or uneducated. I'm curious... what was your conclusion?
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Since you ask, at that point you were either lying just to get your way, or you didn't know that being hard to please or satisfy was another definition of the word 'difficult'.
It turned out to be the latter, and that you were just using it in the sense of being subjectively inconvenient for you.
So yeah, which is why i'm saying it's selfish, these module ideas are popping up because of personal inconvenience, not actual ideas for big problems the community as an agreed collective actually face.
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you didn't know that being hard to please or satisfy was another definition of the word 'difficult'.
Wouldn't need a context for this meaning? In the dictionaries I consulted I did not find this meaning.
https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/us/definition/english/difficulty?q=difficulty
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you didn't know that being hard to please or satisfy was another definition of the word 'difficult'.
Wouldn't need a context for this meaning of the word "difficult"? In the dictionary I consulted I did not find this meaning.
There is more than 1 dictionary. Even dictionary.com has this meaning, exactly.
Also this entire notion of saying I don't like change is ridiculous. There are lots of things i've tried to change as well as lots of things i've tried to convince people not to change. I've had success and failure both ways. Every human has things they wish would change, and wish wouldn't change, this is perfectly normal human behaviour.
Everyone here does the same thing, some things they want to change, some things they don't want to change.
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If there is absolutely no difficulty, why do you need a module?
Pffffft! :D
Because, like I said multiple times, it's boring and remove my immersion of the game.
You just said it isn't difficult at all, you don't need a module. Difficult also means hard to please or satisfy.
So are you lying, or just uneducated?
@donnie, a handful of people is not a majority when i'm talking about the entire player base, not a handful of selfish people on a forum thread.
Entire player base? LOL, sorry we can't work with that unless you want to assume that most of the people don't want the module?
I hate to use politics as an example but have you ever seen how voting intention polls work?
We have many many of these throught elections in Brazil.
In order to consider that one politician has a greater intention to vote than others, polling institutes gather the opinion of just a few thousand people and not the entire population of the country, with a margin of error of 2 to 5 percent, and guess what? They are likely to never fail the results.
With this module it will be no different, the "forum population" and everyone who participates in this topic will decide who is the majority. If you disagree with this method I'm sorry but then the selfish one is you.
So let's rely on facts here and say that so far you make part of minority whether you like it or not.
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Sorry donnie, how Brazil handles their voting is not my problem(I know nothing other than you and FoxHound said anyway and have no idea about the culture and how people generally live over there) and has nothing to do with what is going on here, though I wish you good luck on that.
I'm not assuming most people don't want the module, though the amount of people who have written support for it on TUS so far I can count with both hands.
nizikawa
Albus
donnie
cgar
Rudolf289
FoxHound
Korydex didn't support it.
Dario didn't say it should be a thing, though feels if it is going to be available, it's best everyone has it. He does agree it would degrade a valuable skill though.
Obviously I don't support it.
Unfortunately, i'm aware that a lot of people simply don't want to share their opinion and really dislike confrontation in the fear of being disliked, so there could be more people who want this module, or more people who don't want it, and we will never know.
So yes, 9 people is a huge minority.
I think there's maybe a handful of people on Discord as well. Though my issue lies with how it will affect leagues, and this is a league so i'm voicing my concern in the place where it would have the biggest consequences from my perspective.
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so i'm voicing my concern in the place where it would have the biggest consequences from my perspective.
Perhaps it would be better to focus your energies on the community having an anti-cheat system that detects private modules etc. Worrying about these two modules (which will increase people's QoL) won't change anything. Whoever wants to use it will use it. Not everyone is like nizikawa who listens to people's opinions before creating modules.
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I know nothing other than you and FoxHound said anyway and have no idea about the culture and how people generally live over there
Porra Komo u must come to visit the ninos kingdom
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so i'm voicing my concern in the place where it would have the biggest consequences from my perspective.
Perhaps it would be better to focus your energies on the community having an anti-cheat system that detects private modules etc. Worrying about these two modules (which will increase people's QoL) won't change anything. Whoever wants to use it will use it. Not everyone is like nizikawa who listens to people's opinions before creating modules.
To begin with, "which will increase people's QoL" is a subjective opinion, please write it as so.
Also, if it "won't change anything", then why do you need it? If it literally does not change anything, why do you even need it? That just seems absolutely pointless if it literally changes nothing.
The actual fact is, it literally does change something, and we've already explained exactly what.
Also, here's an example of me wanting change which I did not win:
In ONL Discord some months back a number of people(including I) were complaining about maps being overly complex and being boring because of shotgun wars.
Even though I have absolutely zero power and influence over making the decision about rules for ONL, the very fact I, as a streamer was discussing making changes to something some players love and enjoy was enough to really demotivate some people, including chuvash who listed it as one of his reasons for quitting, saying to me I should stick to streaming and not get involved in what the players themselves desire.
Immediately, I felt guilty, and from that moment have not even raised the issue again once, i've discussed through normal conversation my opinion about complex maps. Though actually seeing even a handful of players protest about changing was enough to make me realize some things are best left alone until there is at least a unanimous decision or protest.
@nino - You've offered me a few times and as usual, just not the right time, not enough money, and I suffer immensely in hot weather lol.
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Sorry donnie, how Brazil handles their voting is not my problem(I know nothing other than you and FoxHound said anyway and have no idea about the culture and how people generally live over there) and has nothing to do with what is going on here, though I wish you good luck on that.
You are avoiding my point, it has nothing to do with Brazil, it's just an example of how voting intention works because it can't gather the vote of an entire country, stop playing fool with me.
I will elaborate again perhaps you guys are already discussing another topic.
In other words (or example) It's like asking only 50K women in UK if they prefer to date short or tall men. If 80% of these women answer they would go for tall men, then these numbers are likely to represent the majority of the entire country with small margin of mistake.
I think there's maybe a handful of people on Discord as well. Though my issue lies with how it will affect leagues, and this is a league so i'm voicing my concern in the place where it would have the biggest consequences from my perspective.
If that's your reason what prevents us for standing exactly for the opposite of it? What makes you think it's more valid to consider professional players over casual players? I don't think it's as simple as that.
Obviuosly for you, fun is to watch or play competitively in a professional level but for others it might not be just because of this "imposed" barrier of using external tools and hacking replays for worm orders which "pro" players already have their own personal formula.
If we remove this barrier I don't think we are putting professional players at a disadvantage and giving advantage to those who were not used to write notes, we are just putting everyone in the same pot and giving importance to what really matters in a professional game, intelligence, game sense and effectiveness.
If you go and say that this reduces the learning curve and become unfair for those that hacked replays mastered the game for years with personal methods than I would say it's all bullshit, because games every time update and bring new stuff and evolves, and you know what? That player that studyied the game for months will need to learn lot of new stuff, if not everything, again, like everyone else. Dota 2 is the best example I can use, no teams can be at the top for long because the game updates and evolves constantly requiring a constant game study. I want the same for worms, not a handful of old players that already know everything and cannot be taken out of the comfort zone with new game features.
Edit: I don't think that it is fair at all that a player who started playing competitively a few months ago has not to have the same chances of winning as a player who has been playing for several years just because he refuses to invent an external method for recording weapons and worm sequences as this old player, it's stupid.
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You are avoiding my point, it has nothing to do with Brazil, it's just an example of how voting intention works because you can't gather the vote of an entire country, stop playing fool with me.
I will elaborate again perhaps you guys are already discussing another topic.
I am not avoiding your point, it has nothing to do with this situation.
This decision is not coming down to vote by the entire nation of WormNET(compared to the entire nation of Brazil for example).
You just don't accept why I don't think your point has any relevance here.
Feel free to stop playing yourself though.
If that's your reason what prevents us for standing exactly for the opposite of it? What makes you think it's more valid to consider professional players over casual players? I don't think it's as simple as that.
It is as simple as that, i've already explained if there was a way to separate competitive players and casual players i'd fully support it.
I've also explained why already, it's your choice to go back and read it.
The problem is that a few casual players are going to directly influence and affect competitive players, so taking more time or waiting to find a solution that makes everyone happy is the obvious solution, which is exactly what i've been saying this entire time, i'm not against what you want, just the way you are going about it and the selfish desire to not care about what already exists.
Obviuosly for you, fun is to watch or play competitively in a professional level but for others it might not be just because of this "imposed" barrier of using external tools and hacking replays for worm orders which "pro" players already have their own personal formula.
I've already addressed my view on that.
If we remove this barrier I don't think we are putting professional players at a disadvantage and giving advantage to those who were not used to write notes, we are just putting everyone in the same pot and giving importance to what really matters in a professional game, intelligence, game sense and effectiveness.
Everyone is already in the same pot, so your point is mute.
If you go and say that this reduces the learning curve and become unfair for those that hacked replays mastered the game for years with personal methods than I would say it's all bullshit, because games every time update and bring new stuff and evolves, and you know what? That player that studyied the game for months will need to learn lot of new stuff, if not everything, again, like everyone else. Dota 2 is the best example I can use, no teams can be at the top for long because the game updates and evolves constantly requiring a constant game study.
You are entitled to your opinion, i'm entitled to mine. I believe these requests are spoiling the charm of this game, lowering the learning curve and skill-ceiling.
I don't care about Dota, it has nothing to do with this, this is Worms Armageddon.
If you can't use Worms Armageddon to argue about Worms Armageddon to get your point across, then i'm not interested because it's not relevant.
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I edited my post but you already was finishing your reply.
I used Dota 2 as an example because I want the same for worms, I don't think it's ok to have a handful of old players that already know everything (or the most of it) like you that obviously refuses to be taken out of the comfort zone to learn, perform and adapt to new game features. The very meaning of selfishness.
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I used Dota 2 as an example because I want the same for worms, I don't think it's ok to have a handful of old players that already know everything (or the most of it) like you that obviously refuses to be taken out of the comfort zone to learn, perform and adapt to new game features. The very meaning of selfishness.
Comparing other games to WA is not the same though.
Those games have better security, they are modern with what I imagine is more sophisticated software, they actually have official developers who are actually still involved in official stuff and the competitive scene aren't they?
We don't have those luxuries. :'(
As for saying I refuse to be taken out of my comfort zone, that is just ridiculous and an outright lie.
Even in the past 2 weeks alone i've went from hating Island Team17, to finding ways to enjoy it and i'm having such an amazing time with Syc, Deadcode and others who are involved in the Team17 scene! I actually DO give things a chance, let people talk, debate with reason and logic.
In the past decade i've went from playing BnG exclusively to enjoying most schemes that there are, I even enjoy spectating the schemes I don't enjoy playing and willing to stream and support schemes I don't even like.
Are you saying I must accept every idea everyone ever mentions? Are you trying to say I am not entitled to having my own opinion about things? You are talking about the very meaning of being selfish though you want to strip away my rights to disagree with anything.
Regarding this situation, I want you and the others to have your module, not at the expense of others though, THAT is the definition of being selfish, actually.
Edit:
I think all that has to be done is the following:
1. Make a list of wormkit modules and programs that aren't allowed on TUS.
2. When a player reports a game replay files are checked and if any of forbidden programs were used, the player gets banned immediately.
3. Alternatively, develop an Anti-Cheat system that would block any cheats in league games.
But please don't mess with funners! If some casual players want to simplify gameplay a little bit, let them do it!
Good idea, we've already suggested this, though unfortunately it is not that simple. :'(
If it was possible, I wouldn't protest these recent modules.
In future, if someone says it is, then i'll have no need to protest these modules.
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@nino - You've offered me a few times and as usual, just not the right time, not enough money, and I suffer immensely in hot weather lol.
porra!! ok ae :(,
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Komito, you are not getting out of your comfort zone by applying the basics of what you already know of worms in a new scheme, so your justification seems weak.
My point is based on the assumption of adding new functions to the game, learn and adapt to it and NOT applying what we already have and what we already know of the game basics. You don't get out of comfort zone when you play Intermediate then proceeds to try Elite, you will just apply the same basics of the weapons because you already know how it work etc, unless you are very new to the game but it's not the case.
A better example is, if you are a TTRR player, you are not getting out of your comfort zone if you go and play a warmer, it's not a new challenge, the rope mechanics don't changed.
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@nino - You've offered me a few times and as usual, just not the right time, not enough money, and I suffer immensely in hot weather lol.
porra!! ok ae :(,
Porra. Why are you "warned" nino?
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@nino - You've offered me a few times and as usual, just not the right time, not enough money, and I suffer immensely in hot weather lol.
porra!! ok ae :(,
Porra. Why are you "warned" nino?
Cos i said what 99% of communnity wanted to say to Kradie hauhauhua some nice insults to put the puto/a in his/her right place xD
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@nino - You've offered me a few times and as usual, just not the right time, not enough money, and I suffer immensely in hot weather lol.
porra!! ok ae :(,
Porra. Why are you "warned" nino?
Cos i said what 99% of communnity wanted to say to Kradie hauhauhua some nice insults to put the puto/a in his/her right place xD
Who is the entire community? Do you represent the entire community?
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@nino - You've offered me a few times and as usual, just not the right time, not enough money, and I suffer immensely in hot weather lol.
porra!! ok ae :(,
Porra. Why are you "warned" nino?
Cos i said what 99% of communnity wanted to say to Kradie hauhauhua some nice insults to put the puto/a in his/her right place xD
Who is the entire community? Do you represent the entire community?
The communnity are me and others including you, so i made a favour for 99% of these peoples ;D ;D ;D
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@nino - You've offered me a few times and as usual, just not the right time, not enough money, and I suffer immensely in hot weather lol.
porra!! ok ae :(,
Porra. Why are you "warned" nino?
Cos i said what 99% of communnity wanted to say to Kradie hauhauhua some nice insults to put the puto/a in his/her right place xD
Who is the entire community? Do you represent the entire community?
The communnity are me and others including you, so i made a favour for 99% of these peoples ;D ;D ;D
You do not speak for the community but I know there are people that don't like me as you do. Perhaps you could form a Kradie Haters Alliance ''KHA''. Could be useful to fill up your free time :)
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Komito, you are not getting out of your comfort zone by applying the basics of what you already know of worms in a new scheme, so your justification seems weak.
Sure, you are entitled to your opinion, just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there.
My point is based on the assumption of adding new functions to the game, learn and adapt to it and NOT applying what we already have and what we already know of the game basics.
I'm quite happy to see new functions, features and changes to the game, as long as they aren't compromising parts of the game that have existed throughout the entire franchise for decades, these are not major problems experienced and complained by a massive majority of the player base, literally a tiny minority of players so far want this module.
Are you trying to say you would be 100% happy to have literally everybody change the game in any way they see fit, regardless if other people don't like it?
Should I ask for changes to BnG to suit my needs? Should I try to change Big RR so players use Rubberworm because I enjoy it more? Can I ask for a module that disables the use of multiple spacebars because I think people who need to use more than 1 button for spacebar have less talent/skill? My answer is no to all of those.
You don't get out of comfort zone when you play Intermediate then proceeds to try Elite, you will just apply the same basics of the weapons because you already know how it work etc, unless you are very new to the game but it's not the case.
A better example is, if you are a TTRR player, you are not getting out of your comfort zone if you go and play a warmer, it's not a new challenge, the rope mechanics don't changed.
We can agree to disagree there, those things are not the same, literally.
This is why people who only play Elite suck at Intermediate and those who only play Intermediate suck at Elite, and also those who only play TTRR suck at Big RR and people who only play Big RR suck at TTRR.
They still have to learn the differences between the schemes, their bodies still have to learn the mechanical differences of other weapons, memorize the scheme settings and let their bodies adjust to physical differences and reflexes that you need for different roping schemes. They are entirely different styles.
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You do not speak for the community but I know there are people that don't like me as you do. Perhaps you could form a Kradie Haters Alliance ''KHA''. Could be useful to fill up your free time :)
very original idea. :D
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You do not speak for the community but I know there are people that don't like me as you do. Perhaps you could form a Kradie Haters Alliance ''KHA''. Could be useful to fill up your free time :)
very original idea. :D
Gotta help you hate me! :D
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Gotta help you hate me! :D
no need to help, just by borning u already made this ;D
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Gotta help you hate me! :D
no need to help, just by borning u already made this ;D
Okay deal. I will help you to hate me more :D
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Okay deal. I will help you to hate me more :D
ok puto ;D
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Okay deal. I will help you to hate me more :D
ok puto ;D
Obsession is not good though.
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What, in theory, would be easier and more doable way to implement this idea: as a scheme option or a module? I would like to play an alternative intermediate scheme where players can see the sequence of the enemy team (already possible with wkWormOrder) and the weapons used by the enemy (an alternative tab for each team's arsenal would appear, as it appears in replays files).
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If this is software that you manually have to mark the use of the weapon. I don't see a problem, If this software automatically tracks weapons use it is cheating.
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If this is software that you manually have to mark the use of the weapon. I don't see a problem, If this software automatically tracks weapons use it is cheating.
If I want a scheme with this option, what's the problem? Can't I have freedom of creation here? Each one makes a scheme as they want, right?
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If this is software that you manually have to mark the use of the weapon. I don't see a problem, If this software automatically tracks weapons use it is cheating.
I would like the one with manual marking.
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I would like a module that suggests a weapon to use that will cause the most worm kills in a given turn. If both players have access to it, it will create more exciting and fast games. I don't see the downside. Also, maybe a module that automates my turns when I go to bathroom during match since there is no pause key in worms. I shouldn't be penalized for having to take a shit, amirite?
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I would like a module that suggests a weapon to use that will cause the most worm kills in a given turn. If both players have access to it, it will create more exciting and fast games. I don't see the downside. Also, maybe a module that automates my turns when I go to bathroom during match since there is no pause key in worms. I shouldn't be penalized for having to take a shit, amirite?
You guys love appeal to ridicule.
Intermediate is my favorite scheme and I play it for more than 10 years. I may not be among the best, but I consider myself a very good and experienced player! After so many years I suggest changes, creating an alternative that will bring a new gaming experience to me in this scheme, and that creates so much hassle.
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Just want to add this by pointing out that I made this:
As you can see it is a proof of concept of detecting objects in real time. Therefore it can be worked up upon to track weapon usage. And all of that without it being a WormKit module. That of course opens the way of cheating which—as has become clear during the course of this forum thread—is not wanted.
The original idea of my software was that it could automate weapon tracking as in CWT live streams on Twitch. Like here in the bottom left: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1257129065?t=01h49m14s
Therefore the idea would be to do the processing on a server that has authentication via Twitch. Resulting in only being able to use this software while live streaming. One wouldn’t then be able to use the software without it being publicly known. Alternatively the server could just track usage without Twitch authentication.
I think I could make it work. The proof of concept is successful—the complicated part done. It would require lots of work to extend it to be able to recognize all the objects (weapons), though.
By the way, to the people thinking about just extracting the log during live play to check weapons usage are unfortunately missing a point. For instance it logs Ninja Rope use for every shot fired even if it didn’t reduce ammunition. Like when firing into empty space. Also, it would require the “software” to join the game making it harder to host the software because it would need to be able to run WA then join the game etc.