The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Worms: Armageddon => General discussion => Topic started by: Kradie on July 17, 2020, 07:36 PM
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I have taken the liberty to experiment with 2 important settings for the ninja rope, which I think is crucial for its role in wide arrange of schemes. One of these settings are ''Rope Speed'' and second ''Projectile Speed''. I have added extra value to both of these options, it makes the rope more ''speedy'' and ''frantic''. People have tested it and some of them do like it. However they are concerned that ''old schoolers'' won't approve because it would be too easy to rope. Do you agree with this? No one really liked TS, and r+ for rubberworm. But yet I have played with intense rope settings with no problem. I even had a game with a few experienced ropers who decided to quit after a few brief turns because they failed on every level imaginable.
What do you think? Could speedy rope be something or not?
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See, back then I already knew that playing online could be much more difficult than their offline counterpart, the first time I played AoE2 online I was literally defeated in just a couple minutes, even though I had no issue beating any campaign.
I got W:A sometime between 2008-2009, and I played every training, every mission, the whole deathmatch campaign, and I've unlocked the full wormage "twice". I had a strategy, some skill on ground control, and I thought I was ready to tackle on WormNET. I was completely wrong.
When I first joined WormNET back in 2010, it was like learning a whole new gameplay, because I had no option but to play rope games, and nobody would ever play a "classic" game. Any practice I had for a "classic" game was pushed far behind in my brain, and some things such as strategy became really rusty as I had to come up with something quick after touching every wall in a WxW. The learning curve was also more difficult than for a classic game, because the "rules" are only in our imagination so we got to learn them other friends we meet (after getting kicked or cow-ing to a bunch of haters who won't tell them) or read an external wiki.
So, Worms Armageddon effectively turned into a "rope" game in its own right, requiring a whole different skill set. People from WormNET made a whole new game (or games) over time, but W:A is required to "run them". And as I've improved my roping over the years, there's some missions I can't beat anymore unless I tried/practiced them again for a long time.
So, I've made an effort in learning a "new game" and I actually got some really good times on it, but... I don't know if it's worth it to change it again? I'd say I'm conflicted in this one, but I'm leaning towards no... isn't the typical rope already pretty damn difficult, taking MUCH time and effort to practice and master? It will have to be forgotten again
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Mr lolicon-guy, I understand the reluctance to master a new rope, however please hear me out.
You as many others have already mastered the art of roping, so why not go further? By challenging your existing skills to a new arena that's a bit different? Sure the rope may be different but yet you understand it, you just need to treat it differently and get used to it.
It doesn't take long to master it, I didn't, why can't you or anyone else?
Speedy rope is very fun. Sure, it ''may'' be easy to master for noobs, but who cares? It's still hell of a lot of fun :)
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When it comes to something like rope physics, I don't personally approve of change unless it's a change enforced in every scheme and literally everyone agrees never to use the old physics ever again.
I guess it would be like spending your whole life playing billiards then switching to snooker or vice versa.
Change the scheme settings sure, be creative with map design sure, but changing physics, no.
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See, I can give it a try, but in the meantime, I insist it feels like Billiards -> Snooker -> Pool. Agreed with the first one and it was already a pain. Can tell is an issue that goes from "can't be bothered to try something new" (which to me isn't a good thing) to "maybe I'm too old to master a game now" like back in teenhood, but I digress.
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If the applied settings change the way rope behaves, even slightly, then no. I agree with Komo, changing psychics is a big no. Of course this excludes casual games with your friends where competition is not a concern, just like when you put overpowered explosive bananas on Big RR.
If the applied settings does not change the rope behavior, but only change animation speed, then it might work. It might even be interesting. I think one way to achieve that is by changing the speed of game engine.
Newbies can practise muscle memory by lowering engine speed. To give you an example, I practise guitar and when I face with a hard riff, I try to play it at lower speed. Let's say I begin at 50% speed. When I manage to play it, I raise the speed level incrementally till I reach 100%. This works because I get motivated when I am able to play at lower speed, and at that speed I build muscle memory.
Pros can improve their roping by playing at a higher speed. They can increase their reaction time, which will translate to regular speed as more precise roping.
If rope animation becomes faster while keeping the gravity same, it can also work on some competitive events with more freedom (a Big RR or WxW cup), and not work on the rest (league schemes, TTRR, Darts etc.)
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Definitly yes.
We played many hours yersterday with oldscock, masta, legion and many others on fast rope.
At the beggining i was just testing options, playing with all that new settings in the "star".
Finally we played maybe 4 hours with fast rope (actually we didnt change the rope speed, but the whole engine game speed).
Its also great that we can set the "ghost" option, and "wind" option to get something similar to the old /racingstuff :)
For people who want to give a try and are lazy to play with options themselves i upload the options we used.
What was intially just testing, became a big roperace session, trying "slow-motion", "fast rope", "ultra-fast rope :D" on ttrr normal maps and big rr.
I usually just play 1 hour and get bored, here I played my longest worm session, and i was feeling everybody had fun trying something new.
In my own opinion, 3.8 roping is too slow, and only switching the engine game speed to something between x1.15 and x1.25 makes it really more enjoyable.
One more thing for rr players, as this option doesnt only change rope speed but the whole game speed, we also wait less between each turns, looking for useless animation or listening worms voice faster :)
So yea, whatever every player preferences is, its just so great that we have many new options / advanced schemes settings to play with.
And as a conclusion, yea; I think if you can do something faster, it will be even more easy to do it on normal speed later. So I guess you could only improve from this experience.
Cheers, and thanks again for 3.8
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When it comes to something like rope physics, I don't personally approve of change unless it's a change enforced in every scheme and literally everyone agrees never to use the old physics ever again.
I guess it would be like spending your whole life playing billiards then switching to snooker or vice versa.
Change the scheme settings sure, be creative with map design sure, but changing physics, no.
I Agree.
New available rope settings are quite similar to ts options. So nothing has changed for those who are familiar with it. I could play it for fun, like in the past but I am not going to consider it as the new way to play WA.
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In my own opinion, 3.8 roping is too slow,
Keep hearing this from players and it's mind boggling. If anything, 3.8 feels faster for me. How come community is divided on this matter? Does it have anything to do with monitor refresh rate? In game video settings? I'd like to hear more.
My setup is:
Win10 (no compatibility set to previous versions in wa.exe)
direct3d9 shader
Windowed borderless mode
Both vsyncs turned off
144hz monitor
Game running better than ever.
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I just played With DawgScrap with 1.8 speed and it is good. I liked it just fine.
I told scrappy that everyone on worms now seem to have their own gimmick now, even myself. I guess time will tell what will appeal to most.
I changed settings on rope just to experiment, some likes it, some don't. It really does divide everyone. Personally, I try to be open to new things. The annoying thing is to master something new again, that can throw people off.
At least there's more freedom of choice here. No one is forcing people to play this or that.
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I am talking about rope speed and game speed.
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You're overthinking it SirJ. I assure you all the ppl you usually play with will stick to regular rope. And the ones that have fun with customization atm, will quickly get bored of changing speed, friction, gravity and whatnot. Even if they don't - who cares. It's not like you played with them before anyway :)
In the end, we're gonna end up with having handful of great innovative schemes with new settings + thousands of unusable ones. Like we do now. So only thing it's gonna change is higher number of quality modes. See it as a good thing.
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-Try normal
-Try x1.18
-Tell me wich is the best
:D
I mean, its just about having fun, i personally like it faster.
And its exactly the same roping physics, overall speed changes (the whole balance remain the same)
Nothing to worry about your actual or posterior skillz
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tweening goes nyoooooooooooooooom
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I have taken the liberty to alter DawgyStyle's scheme aka LilScrappy94 version.
All I did was to enhance the speed of rope.
You can examine it by downloading my game replay.
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Back in the days of xSpeed and MagicSpeed or whatever it was called you could either slow down or speed up the rope. I quite liked the speedy (1.5x speed) and played a bit on that for a while and when going back normal speed felt like slow motion and it improved myself, it certainly makes you react faster because you have to. The physics would be the same, the game just ran faster. Another interesting thing about ever changing (slight) settings is this fact: You actually become better if you constantly change your input slightly.
https://cochranemusic.com/guitar-muscle-memory-speed
We basically have a cognitive phase, an associative phase and an autonomous phase. When you "master" the rope you are only working in the autonomous phase, you don't learn anything anymore and just do what you learned. During my "career" I often switched keyboards, modding of keys, how to tap, made entire aliases that focus on one aspect of roping. I basically always returned to the associative phase and autonomous phase back and forth. Hell I even entered the cognitive phase by altering the actual game engine. In my opinion all this fiddling was strengthening my skills, you get worse for a while but come back stronger. You don't forget your old skill sets, you also never "unlearn" how to walk, run or ride a bike. You just don't. I stopped playing basketball for 5 years, and when I started I could still shoot 3 pointers just fine, a bit rusty but returned to normal just fine. So in my opinion the true key to master something is to always challenge yourself, mix it up. You are good with your right hand? Now stop using it and use your left etc. I remember in my starting days of fingerroll I would try to beat my own fingerroll on left vs. right hands. Like with these old tapping meters that measured your speed. I would have like 200 taps on left hand and then try to beat it on right hand and so on.
yes sure, repetition will and can get you closer to a goal (like beating a time) you will get more consistent and consistency alone can (will) improve you,... but the true road to overcoming your limits is to think outside the box and challenge your mind and brain ever so slightly that it has to adapt, and learn and discover new skill sets that you can integrate in what you have already learned.
And to answer the thread, yes I would.
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help me guys, cant remember the command for change the ninja rope colors haaalpp
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help me guys, cant remember the command for change the ninja rope colors haaalpp
It was /colormod.
It's no more.
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Back in the days of xSpeed and MagicSpeed or whatever it was called you could either slow down or speed up the rope. I quite liked the speedy (1.5x speed) and played a bit on that for a while and when going back normal speed felt like slow motion and it improved myself, it certainly makes you react faster because you have to. The physics would be the same, the game just ran faster. Another interesting thing about ever changing (slight) settings is this fact: You actually become better if you constantly change your input slightly.
https://cochranemusic.com/guitar-muscle-memory-speed
We basically have a cognitive phase, an associative phase and an autonomous phase. When you "master" the rope you are only working in the autonomous phase, you don't learn anything anymore and just do what you learned. During my "career" I often switched keyboards, modding of keys, how to tap, made entire aliases that focus on one aspect of roping. I basically always returned to the associative phase and autonomous phase back and forth. Hell I even entered the cognitive phase by altering the actual game engine. In my opinion all this fiddling was strengthening my skills, you get worse for a while but come back stronger. You don't forget your old skill sets, you also never "unlearn" how to walk, run or ride a bike. You just don't. I stopped playing basketball for 5 years, and when I started I could still shoot 3 pointers just fine, a bit rusty but returned to normal just fine. So in my opinion the true key to master something is to always challenge yourself, mix it up. You are good with your right hand? Now stop using it and use your left etc. I remember in my starting days of fingerroll I would try to beat my own fingerroll on left vs. right hands. Like with these old tapping meters that measured your speed. I would have like 200 taps on left hand and then try to beat it on right hand and so on.
yes sure, repetition will and can get you closer to a goal (like beating a time) you will get more consistent and consistency alone can (will) improve you,... but the true road to overcoming your limits is to think outside the box and challenge your mind and brain ever so slightly that it has to adapt, and learn and discover new skill sets that you can integrate in what you have already learned.
And to answer the thread, yes I would.
amen :-*
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Back in the days of xSpeed and MagicSpeed or whatever it was called you could either slow down or speed up the rope. I quite liked the speedy (1.5x speed) and played a bit on that for a while and when going back normal speed felt like slow motion and it improved myself, it certainly makes you react faster because you have to. The physics would be the same, the game just ran faster. Another interesting thing about ever changing (slight) settings is this fact: You actually become better if you constantly change your input slightly.
https://cochranemusic.com/guitar-muscle-memory-speed
We basically have a cognitive phase, an associative phase and an autonomous phase. When you "master" the rope you are only working in the autonomous phase, you don't learn anything anymore and just do what you learned. During my "career" I often switched keyboards, modding of keys, how to tap, made entire aliases that focus on one aspect of roping. I basically always returned to the associative phase and autonomous phase back and forth. Hell I even entered the cognitive phase by altering the actual game engine. In my opinion all this fiddling was strengthening my skills, you get worse for a while but come back stronger. You don't forget your old skill sets, you also never "unlearn" how to walk, run or ride a bike. You just don't. I stopped playing basketball for 5 years, and when I started I could still shoot 3 pointers just fine, a bit rusty but returned to normal just fine. So in my opinion the true key to master something is to always challenge yourself, mix it up. You are good with your right hand? Now stop using it and use your left etc. I remember in my starting days of fingerroll I would try to beat my own fingerroll on left vs. right hands. Like with these old tapping meters that measured your speed. I would have like 200 taps on left hand and then try to beat it on right hand and so on.
yes sure, repetition will and can get you closer to a goal (like beating a time) you will get more consistent and consistency alone can (will) improve you,... but the true road to overcoming your limits is to think outside the box and challenge your mind and brain ever so slightly that it has to adapt, and learn and discover new skill sets that you can integrate in what you have already learned.
And to answer the thread, yes I would.
Nicely put there Anubis :)
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I hope you guys have tried the tweened rope, Komo, Anubis, and everyone else who's ever enjoyed roping. Even if you play on a 60Hz monitor, those extra 10FPS mean a world of a difference. And roping at higher than 100FPS? Forget it, you'll never go back. :D
I am only a little sad the update hasn't come out sooner, since the feature has been working for a while now. My only wish is for a roping renaissance from now on.
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I am trying out the new rope now and it might be my imagination but it feels like latency is worse now than it was before. The animations themselves look smoother but I noticed that I am falling a lot more than usual.
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Back in the days of xSpeed and MagicSpeed or whatever it was called you could either slow down or speed up the rope. I quite liked the speedy (1.5x speed) and played a bit on that for a while and when going back normal speed felt like slow motion and it improved myself, it certainly makes you react faster because you have to. The physics would be the same, the game just ran faster. Another interesting thing about ever changing (slight) settings is this fact: You actually become better if you constantly change your input slightly.
https://cochranemusic.com/guitar-muscle-memory-speed
We basically have a cognitive phase, an associative phase and an autonomous phase. When you "master" the rope you are only working in the autonomous phase, you don't learn anything anymore and just do what you learned. During my "career" I often switched keyboards, modding of keys, how to tap, made entire aliases that focus on one aspect of roping. I basically always returned to the associative phase and autonomous phase back and forth. Hell I even entered the cognitive phase by altering the actual game engine. In my opinion all this fiddling was strengthening my skills, you get worse for a while but come back stronger. You don't forget your old skill sets, you also never "unlearn" how to walk, run or ride a bike. You just don't. I stopped playing basketball for 5 years, and when I started I could still shoot 3 pointers just fine, a bit rusty but returned to normal just fine. So in my opinion the true key to master something is to always challenge yourself, mix it up. You are good with your right hand? Now stop using it and use your left etc. I remember in my starting days of fingerroll I would try to beat my own fingerroll on left vs. right hands. Like with these old tapping meters that measured your speed. I would have like 200 taps on left hand and then try to beat it on right hand and so on.
yes sure, repetition will and can get you closer to a goal (like beating a time) you will get more consistent and consistency alone can (will) improve you,... but the true road to overcoming your limits is to think outside the box and challenge your mind and brain ever so slightly that it has to adapt, and learn and discover new skill sets that you can integrate in what you have already learned.
And to answer the thread, yes I would.
Quality post, very good points.
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Me and Slip made a PERFECT SCHEME from roper and big rr
We came from worms 2 as all know, so we have schemes, maps etc.. then we have this update and all changed. So we thought about "How we can help who like plays with more speed and no change INSIDE THE GAME (rubber inside the worms).
So we made 2 schemes that dont change NOTHING INSIDE THE GAME, but is more faster then last update.
1 - We changed the ZAR BIG RR ( We know that its yours, Kradieeee haha).
- 30 seconds;
- Zooka
- No chute
2 - We changed TUS Big RR
- 40 seconds
- No weapons
- With chute
All this schemes were made just to HELP with who like plays more faster than usual way :)
Again: We used ZAR BIG RR scheme to make this scheme (all credits from they) and TUS Big RR.
You can teste here if you want. I believe all you'll love it!
Tell us what you think about after play, ok?
(Sorry about my terrible english)
PS: we didnt change speed and NOTHING inside the game :) so you can play and test all the ways.
[attachment=1]
[attachment=2]
[attachment=3]
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We came from worms 2 as all know, so we have schemes, maps etc.. then we have this update and all changed. So we thought about "How we can help who like plays with more speed and no change INSIDE THE GAME (rubber inside the worms).
So we made 2 schemes that dont change NOTHING INSIDE THE GAME, but is more faster then last update.
Im curious to know what option did you change.
But yea, you totally changed the game.
Im not sure what do you mean by "We didnt change anything, just speed", but actually you totally change the rope physics and you unbalanced classic wa roper.
I play a lot of speedy games lately, there is only one way (I guess) to speed it up "Without changing the initial balance" : Game engine speed.
All attemps to increase speed by changing stuff like gravity, rope speed, air friction... Will totally change the rope physics that we all know on wa.
I personally like a lot speedy games but i hate changing the roping style.
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We came from worms 2 as all know, so we have schemes, maps etc.. then we have this update and all changed. So we thought about "How we can help who like plays with more speed and no change INSIDE THE GAME (rubber inside the worms).
So we made 2 schemes that dont change NOTHING INSIDE THE GAME, but is more faster then last update.
Im curious to know what option did you change.
But yea, you totally changed the game.
Im not sure what do you mean by "We didnt change anything, just speed", but actually you totally change the rope physics and you unbalanced classic wa roper.
I play a lot of speedy games lately, there is only one way (I guess) to speed it up "Without changing the initial balance" : Game engine speed.
All attemps to increase speed by changing stuff like gravity, rope speed, air friction... Will totally change the rope physics that we all know on wa.
I personally like a lot speedy games but i hate changing the roping style.
Who knows me and all guys who came from worms 2 has ideia how we play. In worms 2 is this the way to play :) like as said: we changed to be more faster then original scheme (tus, for exemple).
Our friend (Hulk) made to us a scheme (last version) with rubber to remember w2 schemes, so we just got that scheme and change for big rr. The roper's scheme already changed before. Just me and my friend have played it. Then i saw a lot of players complaim about gravity, speed, friccion etc. So we tought to make a scheme based on OUR scheme from worms 2.
So yes, we put ZAR scheme and TUS scheme and changed based in our last version (worms 2 roper) and here we are lol.
It's just a new way/another way to play fastier different as another plays were made. They changed speed when u can see left button (1.3x speed) etc etc.. If you play this scheme you wont see nothing like that :) Understand? I'm not put this way to substitue the original scheme or something like that.
We just put our last scheme and changed to be "like" all players were talking about. In my opinion got better than anothers schemes, but it's my opinion :) for me it's more clean and easy to play.
Sorry if my last post showed something different :) if you download i hope you like it
PS: WA roper's scheme is so HEAVY. So yes, its totally different to me and my friends :B And yes, our idea were modify this scheme and play similar worms 2 roper scheme and we did it! For us it's better (10000000000000000000x better haha). (:
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So yea, its more some w2 scheme than speedy scheme.
And yea you changed the game to w2 physic.
I tried it, didnt like it and I was just suprised you keep repeating you didnt change anything
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So yea, its more some w2 scheme than speedy scheme.
And yea you changed the game to w2 physic.
I tried it, didnt like it and I was just suprised you keep repeating you didnt change anything
Unfortunately, I can't speak English enough to try to make you understand my point, but no problem. If you played and didn't like it, no problem. The scheme is nice to play, it does not change the speed of the worm as seen in the lower left corner of other schemes (1.3x) etc. etc. I won't be able to explain and it's okay lol
Edit1:
But I understood what you meant and I will try to explain it anyway with the google translator. Our scheme was changed before update 3.8 with rubber to be similar to worms 2. So, the SAME scheme was not changed in version 3.8. That's what I meant. Sorry if I couldn't explain this correctly.
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I am trying out the new rope now and it might be my imagination but it feels like latency is worse now than it was before. The animations themselves look smoother but I noticed that I am falling a lot more than usual.
Hey skunk3, that might be three things together, each with its own influence:
1) Disable Vsync. It adds input latency by definition: the game waits until the next logic frame to process input. This is single handedly the most signifficant source of input lag and roping unresponsiveness.
2) Your 50FPS-conditioned timing needs adjustment. But it's very easy to pick up, once you relax and let your brain get used to the extra ms the game allows you to send input. After that, going back to 50 rendered frames per second will feel horrible, guaranteed. :)
3) If your monitor refresh rate is much higher than 60Hz, roping will feel not just smoother but also much more sensitive to input. Again, see 1).
Alternatively to 1): enable assisted vsync (if you're using the Direct3D renderer), and compare roping in it vs roping with No Vsync. No Vsync will let W:A use all CPU and GPU resources it can take, so be aware. Assisted vsync should strike a balance between both worlds but needs some tweaking to get right, by editing the registry. The readme has more information, but I'm willing to explain more if anyone wants to.
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Without v-sync enabled I get horrible screen lag. I think that this is because I use a 1080p television as a monitor connected to my laptop via HDMI. I've always had v-sync enabled before and it never gave me issues. All I know is that ever since the update, roping has felt weird. I'm falling a lot more than I normally do and I can't scroll worth a crap. Worms feel 'heavier' somehow too. The game does look smoother overall animation-wise but I guess I'm just having trouble adapting to the update. I'm struggling!
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Try x1.18 speed, your worms will feel in shape like a triathlon athlete
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Without v-sync enabled I get horrible screen lag. I think that this is because I use a 1080p television as a monitor connected to my laptop via HDMI. I've always had v-sync enabled before and it never gave me issues. All I know is that ever since the update, roping has felt weird. I'm falling a lot more than I normally do and I can't scroll worth a crap. Worms feel 'heavier' somehow too. The game does look smoother overall animation-wise but I guess I'm just having trouble adapting to the update. I'm struggling!
You can also try ''unrestricted rope'' it reduces friction and drag. It really makes the rope more speedy. Takes some time to get used to.
You can also try x1.18 speed combined with ''unrestricted rope''. I have mastered both of these options, and so should any experienced roper be able to, at least those I have played with.
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Changing only game speed multiplicator = Same roping
Changing anything else = New roping
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Changing only game speed multiplicator = Same roping
Changing anything else = New roping
In combination imo, faster, and requires more skills for maneuvering, control, to tricks and so on.
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Without v-sync enabled I get horrible screen lag. I think that this is because I use a 1080p television as a monitor connected to my laptop via HDMI. I've always had v-sync enabled before and it never gave me issues. All I know is that ever since the update, roping has felt weird. I'm falling a lot more than I normally do and I can't scroll worth a crap. Worms feel 'heavier' somehow too. The game does look smoother overall animation-wise but I guess I'm just having trouble adapting to the update. I'm struggling!
what is the refresh rate on the television? that makes a massive difference. if its 60hz its not fit for roping.
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what is the refresh rate on the television? that makes a massive difference. if its 60hz its not fit for roping.
Don't think 60/100/120 hz would make any difference. Only masochist or old ppl could rope using TV.
Don't even want to imagine input delay on that thing. Let's hope skunk3 is just getting old.
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Make sure the TV itself doesn't have its own motion smoothing crap enabled. That'll cause input lag if it's on.
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I have no idea what the refresh rate is on the TV. I don't really care too much because these days I don't do much gaming, and most of the gaming I DO partake in is fairly slow paced and not graphically intensive. I just use HDMI to connect to my TV because a 42" screen is a hell of a lot easier on my eyes than a 17" laptop screen. I haven't had any issues with latency until the update. Now I have other issues but I think it's unrelated to all of this.