The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Worms: Armageddon => General discussion => Topic started by: Sensei on February 01, 2016, 01:48 PM
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Hi all!
Last night I was ready to call it for the evening but stayed a bit longer cause StepS was online and willing to explain me few things about getting bigger resolution for small monitors etc.. (thank you for that, it worked).
After that, I started to fool around with W:A advanced settings. While I was doing that, bumped on saltyk9 in #ag, and had a nice talk. Meanwhile, we discovered I was playing on wrong settings my whole worming career. Graphics were set to DirectDraw 32 bit, both v-syncs turned on, slow frontend workaround was unchecked...
Anyway, he told me to set direct3D9 (shader) and turn off vsyncs. And.. IT HAPPENED!!!
I discovered rope for the first time after 3 yrs of playin. Never was aware of that "delay", before that moment. It felt like I was roping on 50% all this time. Man... Pumps, wizards, outlaws, dragons.. you name it! It all became natural now, without any obstacles. But ofc, my happiness was short lived.
New features brought new problems too. Constant screen laggs, jittering, flickering, cutting, freezing.. So ugly freezes that even speakers started to act weird.. :'(
It's so ugly that is almost unplayable.. But what the f@#! should I do now? Don't want to go back on DirectDraw32. After sensing un-delayed rope, I can't play with old settings anymore. Even with all those negative side effects last night, I roped better than ever before..
Is there a way to solve this problem without buying new monitor/graphic card?
If anyone have some good suggestions, pls help, getting desperate here!
Ty
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Are you sure it's the settings and not your computer/keyboard etc?
I've tried all of them and my roping seems the same on every type of setting, I do have a good keyboard though, and years of experience, that helps I guess.
Currently I have DD32bit, and v sync is checked, I do get the odd tiny lag spike but I get that lag no matter what settings I use.
Is there any evidence that 3D9 is better? You make it sound like DD32bit gives ropers a disadvantage??
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Thats why we activate vsync to get rid of screen tearing.
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Did you try Direct3D9 (shader) but with vsyncs on? This is what I use.
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Are you sure it's the settings and not your computer/keyboard etc?
I've tried all of them and my roping seems the same on every type of setting, I do have a good keyboard though, and years of experience, that helps I guess.
Currently I have DD32bit, and v sync is checked, I do get the odd tiny lag spike but I get that lag no matter what settings I use.
Is there any evidence that 3D9 is better? You make it sound like DD32bit gives ropers a disadvantage??
I actually always thought that my 20$ keylock keyboard is the one making problems.. But after turning off v-syncs and checking slow frontend workaround box - rope got much easier to use.
Don't know which tehnical aspects cause this but my fps jumped from 50-60 on 300+, after changing settings.
Now.. is the low graphic card/monitor that causes freezes or is it unstable fps...
Remember playing CoD2 few years ago. All online players locked their fps on 125, 250 or 333.
I wonder, is something like that possible on W:A!? And would it be helpful in any way..
Guess we need to wait for some thoughts of pc experts. I know they're hiding somewhere on tus.
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I actually always thought that my 20$ keylock keyboard is the one making problems.. But after turning off v-syncs and checking slow frontend workaround box - rope got much easier to use.
Don't be fooled by the price of a keyboard, cheap ones can be great, expensive ones can be bad lol.
I've had a £5 Cheetah keyboard that worked very well with intes Keychanger(Used left control as space), and i've had a £60 Razor keyboard that was absolutely useless for my style...
It depends on the way your hands/body works in conjuction with the technical aspects of the keyboard.
Some people prefer mechanical keys, some people prefer springy keys, some prefer plastic tougher keys, there are so many different variations of response/weight etc.
I guess it depends how hard you press the keys, how quickly you can press as well as how lightly/heavy, some keyboards are too sensitive, some are not sensitive enough...
If you enjoy Roping enough, or want to be good enough, you can test several keyboards out, remember these days you have money back garauntee with many shops, so go buy keyboard, test it, if you really like it keep it, if you don't take it back and get yo money back within 7 days or whatever it is in your country.
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Wanted to buy logitech k120, which sounded pretty nice for that price.
But there was no any in store and was in a hurry to rope - so i took genius slimstar i250.
Reviews are pretty good, and soft keys are actually feel nice, i prefer those.
But keylock on space + ghosting on remapped keys (after pressing it with same time as cursors) sometime make me wanna throw it on the ground and start jumping on it.
Anyway, getting off the subject here. Cmon tus hackers, we need some answers!!
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Wanted to buy logitech k120, which sounded pretty nice for that price.
I bought Logitech illuminated k740 last year and I am very happy with it, at around £60 - £80 if you have the money to spend, buy this keyboard, it's been praised by so many other great ropers including barman, statik, avirex to name a few.
But keylock on space + ghosting on remapped keys (after pressing it with same time as cursors) sometime make me wanna throw it on the ground and start jumping on it.
Best advice, don't use those keyboards for roping, keylock is the bane of roping.
I actually have 2 keyboard plugged in at all times, Logitech for roping cuz it's very sensitive, and Emprex for default because it's less sensitive and more precise for adjusting aim.
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I turned both vsuncs off, now it sucks....
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shut the fuk up xan ;D
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i dont know about any of these settings, my guess is leave them to their defaults, its an old game. Sounds like youve had a taste of snake oil and liked it.
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shut the fuk up xan ;D
Feck off you victim of failed attempt of abortion by plunger ^^
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I use Direct3D 9 (shader) and have both v-sync boxes unchecked. With v-sync on roping feels weird because of the delay. V-sync limits your FPS to your monitor's refresh rate. I have a 144hz monitor (=144 fps) but even then roping feels better with v-sync off.
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I use Direct3D 9 (shader) and have both v-sync boxes unchecked. With v-sync on roping feels weird because of the delay. V-sync limits your FPS to your monitor's refresh rate. I have a 144hz monitor (=144 fps) but even then roping feels better with v-sync off.
Yeah, really do feel weird to turn v-sync again after you tried without. My monitor's refresh rate is 60hz :(
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xan i made a joke urs is kind of not funny u stinky bitch if i ever meet ur distgusting ugly mother i ll pay a n@#!!! to wide her always dirty assc@#! u bith of not playen worms but open stinky mouth faggot
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I run w:a on commodor 64
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I've tried all of them and my roping seems the same on every type of setting, I do have a good keyboard though, and years of experience, that helps I guess.
Currently I have DD32bit, and v sync is checked, I do get the odd tiny lag spike but I get that lag no matter what settings I use.
Is there any evidence that 3D9 is better? You make it sound like DD32bit gives ropers a disadvantage??
A worm flying looks a bit "laggy" for me with DD32bit. I guess this changes from case to case.
You really don't notice a difference between v-sync on/off? It should be evident especially if your FPS is limited to 60/75. Are u sure u haven't disabled v-sync from your graphic card settings? :-X
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Could eliminate some screenlag by removing PX/Rubberworm, if they're installed. Or just install a fresh copy to another folder and have 2 installations.
Other than that, lowering your in-game resolution usually helps quite a bit. Or get a better video card.
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Could eliminate some screenlag by removing PX/Rubberworm, if they're installed. Or just install a fresh copy to another folder and have 2 installations.
Other than that, lowering your in-game resolution usually helps quite a bit. Or get a better video card.
Don't have px, and tbh, I don't think rubberworm could cause such laggs/freezes. Never experienced something similar. Screen is cutting whole time while on rope, but those freezes.. man.. not just it f@#!s up the screen, my speakers start to tremble also. Quite awkward! Apparently it's low quality monitor. I'm planning to buy one for some time now, but never in the world would have thought i'll need better graphic card to play W:A... :D
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the fastest solution with thisvideogame has always been a new installation.
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the fastest solution with thisvideogame has always been a new installation.
I just reinstalled Windows 7 last week, with SSD :D It's super fast now :D
BUT!!!!
WA still lags :'(
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Holy moly, I switched off vsync, and everything feels a lot faster. But the falling background stars & menus are twice as fast.
I use SSD as well.
Also I use a wireless keyboard Logitech Mk700.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/r0eXXsZ4szg/maxresdefault.jpg
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the fastest solution with thisvideogame has always been a new installation.
I just reinstalled Windows 7 last week, with SSD :D It's super fast now :D
BUT!!!!
WA still lags :'(
I still run windows XP, with worms is prefect ehehehhe
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Same here, WinXP 4eva :D
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Man, you guys are on some good drugs or i'm doing something wrong...
I just tried 3D9 again, with vsync off, my roping is worse if anything, nothing feels faster(except the background stars go craaaazy fast when u move mouse in game menu).
The roping is exactly the same but when using vsync off, sometimes my keyboard seems like it fails to respond sometimes, like I do a spike, and when I bounce off the wall at the bottom to scroll fast it doesn't bounce it sorta splats against the wall and stops moving... Wtf is that all about?!
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Holy moly, I switched off vsync, and everything feels a lot faster. But the falling background stars & menus are twice as fast.
Uncheck "slow frontend workaround" and the falling stars in menus should calm down
Edit: I mean, with "slow frontend workaround" checked the stars are even faster :D
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Haha, that's true Senator, thanks :P
In my own personal experience, the rope felt a lot more speedier and fluent with vsync options turned off.
With vsync enabled, it's more moon-like-feel, although this is the settings I have used during modern times of WA. In other words, I am more accustomed to it.
Back in the days I used a CRT monitor for Worms. Are there any of you that uses such monitor now?
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Vsync on is a must. This old game with screen tearing is the real hell. Roping with vsync on is fine regarding delays. Wenn vsync is on and you get only 30 fps for example THEN the shit is steaming. But perfect 60fps with vsync are always good. Maybe you get less than 50 that would explain the delays ^^
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All I saw was:
Blah blah blah, blahdy blahdy blah, yahdy yahdy oh look it's the potato king, no mummy no! oaregihoaerghoaerhgoiarehgoiaerhgoihareogiharighioareg yawn snooze, ladies and gentlemen i'm a little teapot short and stout ^^
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Then you should probably go see a doctor or enjoy your dogshit vision. Can be interesting. Anyway dont deactivate vsync unless you cant maintain the 50-60fps.
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I tried all possible combinations last night, and let's say i find one that works.
D3D9 (shader), first v-sync off, assisted vsync on, hardware cursors on, slow frontend workaround on.
Rope is not on 100% like with unchecked both vsyncs, but let's say it's on 70!
Laggs and freezes are reducted, but not entirely gone. While playin Big RR, noticed blury screen on the top of the monitor. Kinda f@#!ed up, but it's ok, can get used to it.
Just don't want to go back and rope on 50% again.
Hope you all find configurations that suits you the best.
Cheers!
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Only difference is cant minimize game with anything but shader shit thats it. There are no lags or sth unless your pc is DOGSHIT.
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Or maybe there's a problem in graphics card?
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Yeah sorry Godmax, i've been singling you out for no reason recently jumping on the Godmax talks crap bandwagon...
I actually agree with you here, I think it's much better with Vsync on.
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Luckily I have no problem on no matter the option I choose. It just comes down to what you feel most comfortable with.
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Luckily I have no problem on no matter the option I choose. It just comes down to what you feel most comfortable with.
ye, if you have epileptic attacks, screen lags are perfect, B'huahuahuahuah BUIiIi
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its the new update with awful lags, delay and shit. but with shitty windows8 support. Had to leave worms because of that. previous version was a blast, perfect delay, speed and shit
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Just tested DirectDraw (32 and 8 ) compared to Direct3D (9) with and without VSync.
While DirectDraw does not add any latency whatsoever you can see small screen stuttering, an experienced roper will still be able to play on this without any disadvantage because you don't rely on the movement being smooth at all times, as long as there is no delay to your input you will be fine.
Direct3D without VSycn does not add any latency and the gameplay is smooth (if you can get high enough FPS, more on this later). This mode should be set by default because it is the best experience when it comes to roping. Direct3D with Vsync turned on with or without assisted Vsync will add a measurable delay to your input, I have tested it with PS/2 and USB and 4 different keyboards and it is always the same. You have to anticipate the delay and thus will have a weird feeling when roping. While any experienced roper can rope on anything (anticipation skills/ muscle memory) it significantly makes you rope worse if you are not used to it. Since having zero delay is preferred at all times this mode is the worst of the 3 options you can choose.
On to which Direct3D or DirectDraw to use:
On DirectDraw it does not matter as it does not increase or decrease FPS in-game at all.
On Direct3D you should pick the render mode that is the strongest in your machine. If your CPU is better than your GPU pick your CPU, and vice versa if your GPU is stronger pick your GPU. Stronger means which mode can render more FPS, to know this all you have to do is install Fraps for example and start W:A with it, it will display a yellow FPS number, check both modes and then pick the one that has the highest number.
If your PC can not get a stable 60FPS on Direct3D use DirectDraw, it will be less taxing thus increasing your FPS (Fraps can't measure the FPS though, because it does not know the API).
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I've also done some researching, but not that much. Gj Anubis and thx for posting.
Btw, found out that program called Nvidia Inspector could help with this particular problem. If you turn vsyncs off, your fps is gonna get wild. From, 60 to 300 aproxx. With this program you could lower it on size that you want, so try to set fps same as your monitor refresh rate. Maybe it could lower laggs and freezes. Dunno, haven't tried it yet. But will soon.
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Just started testing this. Should I be looking at my FPS in game or at frontend for the stable 60 FPS?
(edit)
Never mind. Using direct3d(9) shader with both v sync's off getting 300+ fps (using Anubis's tips). Roping looks much better than before.
My problems was old graphic card driver. Went to AMD website updated and got an extra 300 fps.
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My FPS is 1300+ with vsync off. I think I might have experienced some lags though, I can't verify it because it might be my wireless keyboard. For example, I press space bar and the rope shot fires 1 second later.
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Wooow.. I've been playing with vsync on on this new laptop for almost a year xDDDDD Handicap.
Tried off and yeah it's more accurate, roping feels much better, coolness.
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This thread helped everyone but me.. Haha :D
Btw, found out about little kb test. Try to write down "lazy fox jumps over quick brown dog" holding both shift keys.
This is what i get:
Y OX UMP OVER QUIC BROWN OG
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Someone should sticky it for future reference, roping is hard as it is when your new, might as well give the newbies the smoothest way into it if they decide to learn roping. Also, if DC/CS read this, W:A should by default render in D3D 9 Shader as it's very likely your GPU is the better part in a normal Gamer PC. I bet many ropers have missed their potential because they roped in gimped VSync Mode. :D
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I bet many ropers have missed their potential because they roped in gimped VSync Mode. :D
Vsync works better tho for most people.
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My FPS is 1300+ with vsync off. I think I might have experienced some lags though, I can't verify it because it might be my wireless keyboard. For example, I press space bar and the rope shot fires 1 second later.
I used to have the same problems with a wireless keyboard.
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I bet many ropers have missed their potential because they roped in gimped VSync Mode. :D
Vsync works better tho for most people.
It's just eye candy though, it's fluent yes, and has no screen tearing, but it adds delay which is poison to roping. You need crisp response times. I play all games with Vsync off so I don't see it anymore except I focus on seeing it. Compare it with FPS games, you will not find any pro CS GO player that plays with Vsync, it adds delay to mouse movement. For fast computer games always turn off Vsync is my advice. If you can live with it though, more power to you. Nobody stops you. :)
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Yeah, I use the following:
No vsync
No assisted vsync
Direct 3d shader
I am pretty sure it is easier for me because I can rope more intricately but it is overall hard to tell because my RR level in general has dropped.
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It's just eye candy though, it's fluent yes, and has no screen tearing, but it adds delay which is poison to roping. You need crisp response times.
Then howcome it makes absolutely no difference in my speed with it on or off? And I can still rope faster than most people yet i've lost so much timing/reaction speed since around 2000-2003 era...
I am not doubting you, I just really don't understand this shit...
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Its the fps! If you have 60 or maybe 50+constantly then there usually is no delay problem. If you got a shit pc with under 45fps you will get a super shitty feeling thats true and thats in any game. Vsync is sth. for men only with the right tools.
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Then howcome it makes absolutely no difference in my speed with it on or off? And I can still rope faster than most people yet i've lost so much timing/reaction speed since around 2000-2003 era...
You can rope fast with vsync on, it's just awkward to control. Maybe that explains why u have lost your timing ;D You should be able see the difference even in menus when u move your mouse.
If u can't see any difference, that means you have vsync forced on/off in graphic card settings or u have a weird computer :D
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Another possibility is that you reach 100 or more fps in Worms with your pc. Activating vsync gives you 60fps max then. Might feel slower for you as well. Nevertheless a clean 60fps and vsync on is never a bad idea. Unless you got a 120hz or more monitor by your side and you want more than 60. Is there a special vsync option for 120fps?
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Ok then here is a better question, what is the best way to emulate WA as if I were playing it in the year 2002?
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I bet many ropers have missed their potential because they roped in gimped VSync Mode. :D
Vsync works better tho for most people.
Not true, not documented, nor facts, but purely opinion stated by people in this thread.
Although, kudos to Anubis for his presentation.
I tried to screen record myself roping last night, my FPS dropped down to 350, and only then I witnessed occasional screen tears.
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Vsync works better tho for most people.
Not true, not documented, nor facts, but purely opinion stated by people in this thread.
I was talking about people in this thread, and I am right, generally Vsync on is better for most of them, based on their hardware at least.
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Ok then here is a better question, what is the best way to emulate WA as if I were playing it in the year 2002?
W:A at release and prior to replays patch used DX7 and/or DirectDraw depending if your graphics card could support DX7. You remember when installing W:A from cd it asked you to install Dx7? Vsync at that time was not very common and Vsync on/off was not an option to choose. At the time we used to warm, Komo, we did not have Vsync it wasn't even an option. I remember W:A prior to DX9 and Vsync to be like DirectDraw 32, no delay but not very smooth animation, it was capped at 30 FPS (I think). I found plenty evidence of Vsync causing input lag, from many sites and debug programs that can show it, for example:
Basically the mouse cursor should be in the top left of the blue square, if it isnt you can see the input lag.
DirectX 9 Results:
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FullScreen - No Fixes: Huge lag : 62 FPS
FullScreen - DX9 Fix : Slight lag: 62 FPS
FullScreen - Grab Pixel Fix: Slight lag: 40FPS
Window - No Fixes: Slight lag : 62 FPS
Window - DX9 Fix : Slight lag: 62 FPS
Window - Grab Pixel Fix: Slight lag: 62FPS
DirectX 7 Results:
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FullScreen - No Fixes: Slight lag : 62 FPS
FullScreen - DX9 Fix : Slight lag: 62 FPS
FullScreen - Grab Pixel Fix: Slight lag: 62FPS
Window - No Fixes: No lag : 62 FPS
Window - DX9 Fix : No lag: 62 FPS
Window - Grab Pixel Fix: No lag: 62FPS
It seems DX9 causes a lot of issues with input lag and even DX7 seems to do so when not in Window mode. If you want to go back in time use DX7 without Vsync or DirectDraw 32 or 8 and relive what it was like to rope back then. :)
Edit: Except I am not sure if W:A emulates the 30 FPS cap when not in DX9 mode.
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Worms and roping is like a wet fart/joke anyway. Some play with vsync and 60fps others without and 1000fps then we got the keyboard whores with their doublekeys and speedkeys and the hacks and shit ofc pluz different monitors and solutions and still some whores think they are just ropegods and f@#! the smaller ropeamateurs. I dont like it. Ive tried to form the amateurs during max scheme but so far not much success.
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Interesting comparison you make there...
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Interesting comparison you make there...
I love how our worms community has a semblance of reality to it, there are leaders, people that everyone respects their opinion, idiots, and finally, crazy hobos that go around muttering to themselves about crazy shit that no one really takes seriously. Godmax is one of those people.
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godmax can I have ur babies
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Interesting comparison you make there...
I love how our worms community has a semblance of reality to it, there are leaders, people that everyone respects their opinion, idiots, and finally, crazy hobos that go around muttering to themselves about crazy shit that no one really takes seriously. Godmax is one of those people.
+idiots. lez be some.