Schemes > Schemes

Scheme #5392, Only One submitted by kirill470

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FoxHound:

--- Quote from: TheKomodo on December 18, 2023, 05:11 AM ------- First section of your comment ---

--- End quote ---
I agree with you. Now let's go to the second section of your comment. This one I have more things to say, specifically on some sentences:

--- Quote from: TheKomodo on December 18, 2023, 05:11 AM ---Unfortunate? That's weird because I strongly believe it's historically the opposite and that you should count yourself lucky there are people who only play the same schemes! I call them scheme specialists, it's also MY biggest strength as a player!
[...]
Thanks to all these unconventional schemes, people actually suffer from choice overload these days, the major problem is that most of these schemes are scheme variations of core concepts.
[...]
I wish there was a way to get new players immediately involved in ONLY the classic schemes first when playing online, a way to filter out all the extra stuff. Then, later if they become more invested, can pursue that at their own peril.

--- End quote ---
I agree that playing the same schemes increase the competitive level and thus the quality of the games being played. I agree that these "scheme especialists" are important and contributed to this game being active and with high level gameplay. Although, everyone in this community enjoys doing something in the game. I like schemes, I consider myself an amateur historian of this community, specially regarding schemes. Some people are map makers, other only make soundbanks, other are involved with PX weapons or other PX things. Not only the competitive scenario makes the community active. Having fun is the core thing to a community stay alive.

I think the most known schemes always were highlighted, here in TUS they are on the same leagues for an eternity, on WMDB the most famous schemes received proper categories, while the rest don't (same for TUS, that recently added Quickdraw and changed this a bit).

In worms Knowledge Base they are on a page while all the other schemes are kept in Scheme ideas, after a long discussion there. Schemes page will be updated in the future separating schemes based on competitive events or maybe other relevant stuff. Out of Order was working to organize on a deep level classification, but honestly the way WMDB is right now, I don't aspect much from him. I'm working myself the way I can and the way people let me to organize schemes, with data and precise information to in the future people organize schemes in a way that newbies will easily see which schemes are indeed popular and the ones that are not, without hiding the existence of fantastic schemes that didn't receive much attention from the community for many reasons, some of them you didn't mention in the first section of your comment.

There are lots of brilliant musicians out there that are not recognized while most of the music being heard by people are not complex and the "artists" sometimes pay others to write songs for them, or are just a pawn controled by a company behind the "artist".

People in general have herd behavior, and in WA this is not different. People play schemes because many people are playing so they start playing that scheme without thinking much why. People's opinion are like this too. People listen to music because it plays on the radio or is on top spots in spotify. If you watch a film that everybody is talking about at the moment, you have something to talk on a bar, while if you watch an old 50's movie, you can share your experience, but people will probably not opine much, because they most likely didn't watch the film.

Regarding Board Games, here in Brazil, people only know a national "pirate" version of monopoly called Banco Imobiliário, a national "pirate" version of Risk called War, Uno (that has a less popular national "pirate" version called Can Can), etc. People don't know even the board games that are a success around the globe, such as CATAN, Dix It, etc. I know that Board Games are really expansive here, with an absurd taxation and that in the past few games were available in the market, now we have more options, but even so, people still only play the same games that are not necessarily great, they play because people play or because it is more accessible. Banco Imobiliário (the pirate monopoly) in my opinion sucks in terms of balance, but people have fun playing it and that's the most popular game here. For me The brazilian Monopoly is like the original Kaos Normal scheme. It is bad, but you have fun playing it and you play because everybody plays it, but you would play something else if you can.

I'll skip the third section of your comment, because it is more of the same talk we already had about scheme classification. I agree with you, and I think your classification is relatively equivalent to the Domains in taxonomy. There are surely many other Taxonomic Ranks for the schemes, and these ranks are different from biological classification, they are more related to Board Game classification or Music classification.

Let's go to the fourth and last section of your comment. This is the one I have more to say:

--- Quote from: TheKomodo on December 18, 2023, 05:11 AM ---My point is, even though you see all these new schemes, they don't bring anything new or original to the table, and have not done for a very long time.

Hence why we have literally thousands of schemes, 5392 on TUS to be precise right now, while less than 25 of these are considered exceptionally competitive schemes worthy of being in Leagues by most players who have ever existed.

--- End quote ---

Here I can see ignorance in your comment, because you don't seem to understand how schemes evolve the way they are being played competitively right now.

HHC created Aerial based on a random PlayStation scheme that would probably be considered a "boring noob" scheme here on TUS - yes, especially here on TUS we have this kind of mindset, unfortunately - because the scheme has 45 seconds of turn time and almost no weapons, except the infinite grenade. So yeah, if it has crates, it makes more sense, but even so, it would be considered a scheme "for noobs" here. I'm saying this as an example, because I actually never played the PS1 Aerial. And I'm sure Aerial was inspired by Hysteria.

Do you understand how schemes evolve? PS1 Aerial was not played, but it inspired someone that fortunately made a scheme apreciated by the community. All this 5392 schemes on TUS and outside TUS might inspire a player to create something unique that will bring more activity and fun to the comunity, including competitiveness.

So, all schemes are important, and must not be hidden from others, but I agree that a new player should know the famous ones not necessarily first, but soon (and honestly, this is something natural).

Aerial is just an example, but even your beloved Darts scheme once was played differently under the name "Long Jump" and other names. Long Jump I think is the oldest one.

TheKomodo:
A really well thought out and written reply! Nice!

I'll reply to a few parts I found most interesting, or something I'd like to counter.


--- Quote from: FoxHound on December 18, 2023, 09:32 PM ---Although, everyone in this community enjoys doing something in the game. I like schemes, I consider myself an amateur historian of this community, specially regarding schemes. Some people are map makers, other only make soundbanks, other are involved with PX weapons or other PX things. Not only the competitive scenario makes the community active. Having fun is the core thing to a community stay alive.

--- End quote ---

Agreed, and I apologize for not including the other people who contribute to the game! It wasn't the focus of my part so I'm glad you mentioned it.

To be fair, in my opinion that's YOUR speciality, that's YOUR passion... A lot of people are grateful for it, even I learn stuff from you often.

Regardless when we disagree on stuff please always remember that the work that yourself, Korydex, StJimmy and many others do recording the history of the game is a massive task and something we do not take for granted!

To be fair, this isn't even a "competitive" scheme, in the sense that it's being actively played in the major Leagues in WA, I guess I've got scheme stuff on the brain with Fort scheme editing and talking about Aerial over the past week.

It's nice though, to have people trigger me in such a way, because although you wrote that one sentence, it has led us, at least from my side, to once again take a moment to consider myself grateful to bask in the greatness that the combined community has created over the years.


--- Quote from: FoxHound on December 18, 2023, 09:32 PM ---There are lots of brilliant musicians out there that are not recognized while most of the music being heard by people are not complex and the "artists" sometimes pay others to write songs for them, or are just a pawn controled by a company behind the "artist".

People in general have herd behavior, and in WA this is not different. People play schemes becouse many people are playing so they start playing that scheme without thinking much why. People's opinion are like this too. People listen to music because it plays on the radio or is on top spots in spotify. If you watch a film that everybody is talking about at the moment, you have something to talk on a bar, while if you watch an old 50's movie, you can share your experience, but people will probably not opine much, because they most likely didn't watch the film.

--- End quote ---

This is a VERY fascinating conversation!

I'm a people watcher, I've studied a lot about psychology, human behaviour, cause and effect, etc...

There ARE lots of brilliant musicians out there, I wouldn't say they aren't being recognized, I'd say they aren't as popular as they would like to be.

I'm assuming we're talking about legit musicians, people who have put serious effort into their craft. None of them would be musicians at all if they had literally ZERO recognition. I know, I'm one of them lol! For me personally that's mostly due to choice, I'm good at producing, good at doing mixdown engineering, however I don't promote my music or take it seriously as a professional, it's just a hobby.

Though... The point I'll eventually get to! Music is similar to WA schemes is similar to the choice of food, the choice of movies, the choice of gadgets and other technology we have in todays world...

WA hasn't evolved as fast as it has simply because of WA alone, we have the rest of the world to thank for this as well, as the world grows at increasingly exponential rates in technology and knowledge, that translates to... EVERYTHING!

We are becoming oversaturated by all the failures it takes people to reach their potential.

People NEED to fail before they succeed, they need experience, they need practise.

The reason why we have a handful of successful and popular schemes isn't just because of "herd mentality" aka "herd behaviour" dictating what everyone does... Of course it plays a small part.

For Worms Armageddon though, it's strongly to do with word of mouth, if you've heard of that term?

Of course, things could have played out differently had Worms Armageddon been released with everything we have now, 24 years ago!

It is what it is though, and the schemes which passed the test of time became "authentic" schemes.

Just like I had to study how to be authentic to produce music, by studying all the best samples, best techniques, you learn the foundations then you can tweak things to make your own flavour.

You can think of schemes as being authentic, that doesn't mean the only way possible, it just means the right recipe and ingredients, or set of circumstances that make things most enjoyable!

Over 24 years we've tried and tested almost everything possible and as a global community we've decided which groups of settings are the most "authentic".

We've created authentic schemes for artillery, for physical schemes and for strategic schemes.

Though in our case, replace the word "authentic" with "classic".


--- Quote from: FoxHound on December 18, 2023, 09:32 PM ---Let's go to the fourth and last section of your comment. This is the one I have more to say:
Here I can see ignorance in your comment, because you don't seem to understand how schemes evolve the way they are being played competitively right now.

--- End quote ---

Well, I strongly disagree with this!

I have a solid understanding of how evolution affects, well, everything on the planet and the universe. I understand cause & affect, human behaviour, physics and many other things, things we can control and things we cannot control.

WA scheme evolution is kind of, simple, compared to other things I've researched in life and fortunately have the capacity to comprehend.

So while I might not speak about it in a way that aligns with your personal appreciation of history regarding WA schemes, I certainly understand where we've came from(generally speaking) to get to where we are, for the most part.

Of course I don't remember absolutely everything perfectly lol! Nobody does!

Which is why guys like YOU are an actual treasure around here! You love teaching others about it!


--- Quote from: FoxHound on December 18, 2023, 09:32 PM ---Do you understand how schemes evolve?

--- End quote ---

You mean via the spark of an idea, based on an entire life experience up until that point, to create something that triggers other experiences so they can do the same thing...

Then it will either fail or succeed, if it fails they might try to fix it, they might have to fail a lot, experimenting, until something clicks!

It might succeed! Though in due time people discover new experiences in life and want to add that to the collective experience, in this case they would "update" their "scheme".

Yes, evolution is simple, in every aspect of life. Why do you ask?


--- Quote from: FoxHound on December 18, 2023, 09:32 PM ---So, all schemes are important, and must not be hidden from others, but I agree that a new player should know the famous ones not necessarily first, but soon (and honestly, this is something natural).

--- End quote ---

Yes, and no... It depends on perspective really.

For example, I could say that both my idea here and your idea here would help a newcomer, it really depends on the person learning and we would have to adapt the way we teach to fit each person.

Though if it were up to me I'd make some sort of beginners guide implemented into the actual game with a VERY brief summary of what WA has to offer.


--- Quote from: FoxHound on December 18, 2023, 09:32 PM ---even your beloved Darts scheme once was played differently under the name "Long Jump" and other names. Long Jump I think is the oldest one.

--- End quote ---

This has been the subject of conversation many times! It's interesting, same thing happened with Grenade Wars also, came from another scheme others made!

So yeah, if you haven't already, watch this, I think you would absolutely love it! You can take all the information from this and apply it to, well, pretty much anything in life:

Camper:
Could you make a movie for us?

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