The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Other Things => Clans & Communities => Kf => Topic started by: Dream Trance on October 11, 2021, 04:36 PM
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I noticed some hype around classic kaos these days. So I think the right time has come to try to resuscitate the official event once again after the long hiatus. If there is enough interest I could revive the legendary official classic kaos league. Everyone who wants to try their skills in an official classic league please write in this section. Shall there be enough players wanting to play I will disclose further details. The season of the league can start with at least 8 players.
However it would be best to play it on the tweaked scheme without overpowered weapons and with double time turned off (along with some more interesting improvements) it would be strongly recommended to use that scheme, but it is only made possible with PX editor which most players are somehow afraid of (even though kaos offers much more through that editor).
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You can still turn off certain weapons using 3.8 schemes, and the game now provides more customization options than with the old RubberWorm.
For example, the Kaos Normal scheme currently used in HB replaces 60 seconds turn time with a 52 seconds turn (3 sec active hotseat with the ability to select worms + 5 seconds automatic retreat at the end of each turn). With the Pro version (based on your TUS upload), 45 sec turn + 5 active hotseat + 5 retreat. This diminishes the effect from double turn time crates. Auto-retreat with SDET is impossible in older versions of the game, even with PX.
No-crate probability is now tweakable separate from the 3 crate type probability bars. This means that you can make e.g. weapons or health crates fall more frequently while still ensuring that 1 crate is guaranteed to spawn each craterate cycle. (previously you had to max them out leaving no gaps on each of the bars.) Additionally, it eliminates the 1 in 100 chance of no crate falling due to rounding errors.
Kaos Normal in HB currently uses experimental probabilities with a higher chance of Weapons spawning and a turn total rate of 7~10 crates. Kaos Pro uses fixed 8 crates per turn with classic equal probabilities, no x2 damage or french strike.
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I wasn't aware it can be even more modified with settings available in 3.8.1.
Is there just a built-in editor or is it done with some external one?
I wanted to improve the official kaos scheme for the community to use in tus matches as well.
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If you type "boggysentme" on the main screen you will unlock (if you didn't accomplish all missions and stuff from the game yet) 3.8 features available on the scheme options window (it has a star now so you can see all the new possibilities of 3.8 ). They are called ESO - Extended Scheme Options (https://worms2d.info/Game_scheme_file#Extended_options).
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Thanks. I will have to look at it to be able to prepare an improved official kaos scheme then.
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TUS scheme editor can be helpful too for setting custom values
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Yes, I will take care of this. This thread though was basically meant to be the "sign-up" place. Official league will be professionally covered and most likely will also provide money prizes for the best 3 players of the season.
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I am ready to take part in this.
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With each interested player I will disclose little piece of information about this complexed event. So first relevant info is that this is about to be a classic league (fixed amount of players and each player playing exactly 2 games vs every other player from current season on the "home and "away" basis). With 4 best players advancing to season's playoffs and winners of these playoffs advancing to the final and losers playing 3rd place match.
Season(s) lenght will be depending on a number of players that will be interested.
When a minimum of 8 players will be interested to participate in the season there will be a small money prize only for the winner.
When 9 to 12 players will be interested there will be small money prize pool for top 3 players (finalists and 3rd place match winner) gradually applied.
When 13 to 16 players will be interested there will be extended 8-players-playoffs (4 playoff matches) and medium money prize pool for all 8 players who will qualify for playoffs (applied gradually).
When more than 16 players will be interested the event will become a tournament with big money prize pool for ALL players participating distributed gradually depending on their achievements.
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Oh missed this so far. On my way.
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Ok, another important detail - the scheme. The development of official scheme as the community knows will take yet another major step to improve what wasn't possible with standard editors prior to 3.8.
Scheme will be a variation of what's widely known as kaos normal, but it will be even more improved with what 3.8.1 extended scheme editor can offer. Basically it will keep the original feel, with the increase of tactical solutions that should influence the skill even more. Major changes will mostly include overpowered weapons limitation as well as removal of double time if possible. These will be the biggest changes to the gameplay, but I cannot exactly tell how exactly will it be as I need to investigate the editor possibilities and what it can do to make kaos better.
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I'm in
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For example, the Kaos Normal scheme currently used in HB replaces 60 seconds turn time with a 52 seconds turn (3 sec active hotseat with the ability to select worms + 5 seconds automatic retreat at the end of each turn). With the Pro version (based on your TUS upload), 45 sec turn + 5 active hotseat + 5 retreat. This diminishes the effect from double turn time crates. Auto-retreat with SDET is impossible in older versions of the game, even with PX.
To be fair, setting hot-seat and retreat time in kaos was not possible prior to 3.8 thus it was never considered to being implemented.
When I think of it though I'm very sceptical if this is a good idea for this particular scheme which was meant to be quick-decision making and efficient turntime management.
Probably it can act just as an interesting variation of the original idea.
Although I understand the point of trying to make double time NOT impacting the turntime by shortening it, I don't think that it was meant to have the default turn shorter actually. Kaos normal was about 1 minute turns. For fast-paced action there was some half-kaos hybrid created few years ago.
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For example, the Kaos Normal scheme currently used in HB replaces 60 seconds turn time with a 52 seconds turn (3 sec active hotseat with the ability to select worms + 5 seconds automatic retreat at the end of each turn). With the Pro version (based on your TUS upload), 45 sec turn + 5 active hotseat + 5 retreat. This diminishes the effect from double turn time crates. Auto-retreat with SDET is impossible in older versions of the game, even with PX.
what about Double Time stack limit?
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I think that double stack limit can only allow to use max once per turn to minimise the advantage it dies, but it's still usable anyway.
I studied extended 3.8 settings, but I can't see a way to turn off certain super weapons as well as completely turn off double time.
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We have 3rd interested player, that means another detail about the kaos league disclosed.
Experimentally it will have the reversed map pattern system introduced to avoid playing a decider round on an island map.
1st and 2nd round will be always cave followed by islands in 3rd and possible 4th round, then if a score will be 2-2 at this point, a cave decider will be played.
I think that cavemap decider can be more tactical and more interesting, but I think this needs some feedback / voting, because after all it doesn't matter what map type is the decider once every player starts his home match, so in a head-to-head confrontation between 2 players within the season of the league, both players will start their matches, so there won't be a situation when same player will start the posible decider twice.
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Kaos scheme is not my best friend, but I'm also interested in this obviously : ]
So you plan to keep the stockpiling between the rounds?
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Interested.
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Kaos scheme is not my best friend, but I'm also interested in this obviously : ]
So you plan to keep the stockpiling between the rounds?
Keeping supplies between rounds is an integral part of the tactics in this scheme and by abandoning this function you kill a large percentage of the interest in playing Kaos.
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Keeping supplies between rounds is an integral part of the tactics in this scheme and by abandoning this function you kill a large percentage of the interest in playing Kaos.
actually Sibasa, have you ever been to AG? If so, have you ever joined a Kaos host by others, which was not TUS kaos? then again, you can be pretty sure that 98% of players are playing 1 rounder, or 2 rounder Kaos matches, without stockpiling. That's more fair, and makes more sense. In 1 round match, you can't say that its luck based, because a more experienced kaos player even with the shittiest spawns, and getting the worst weapons from the crates will still always defeat a less experienced kaos player. No one plays it with stockpiling, only for TUS. And you can see how many tus league Kaos matches are being played in the past years.. :) ?? Not many, to say the least.. ;D
For me, it is ok though.. I can endure stockpiling, just sharing my experience with others.. ::)
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What can I say, I'm surprised that people play without stockpiling nowadays actually. Kaos is around for over a decade now and was always played with stockpiling since oldschool times. Not sure what has happened to it in the mainstream space.
Stockpiling makes the effort put in collecting crates reasonable, so nothing you got is lost. Losing it would be kinda unfair in a longer match wouldn't it? And since real kaos (not the random modified versions played for 1 or 2 rounds only) is a longer process played to at least 3 victories it just requires this feature just as people need water I'd say.
I can only say that official kaos scheme development always included stockpiling as one of the most important scheme roots. People who played it since the beginning are mostly inactive by now though, but they know the deal and could say something more about it.
So yes, stockpiling has always been (and I hope amongst true kaos pros will be) and I hope it will remain an integral part of it. It's a task for true fans to keep up the tradition.
Since we have also a 5th player interested, another detail being disclosed - a special performance system will give a chance to create special skill-ranking of players for each season (the same or very similar system to what has been used around 2014-2015 in these events). This ranking will also be used as a coeficient while calculating money prizes graduality.
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Keeping supplies between rounds is an integral part of the tactics in this scheme and by abandoning this function you kill a large percentage of the interest in playing Kaos.
actually Sibasa, have you ever been to AG? If so, have you ever joined a Kaos host by others, which was not TUS kaos? then again, you can be pretty sure that 98% of players are playing 1 rounder, or 2 rounder Kaos matches, without stockpiling. That's more fair, and makes more sense. In 1 round match, you can't say that its luck based, because a more experienced kaos player even with the shittiest spawns, and getting the worst weapons from the crates will still always defeat a less experienced kaos player. No one plays it with stockpiling, only for TUS. And you can see how many tus league Kaos matches are being played in the past years.. :) ?? Not many, to say the least.. ;D
For me, it is ok though.. I can endure stockpiling, just sharing my experience with others.. ::)
No, you are definitely talking nonsense. I have been to many games that are created in AG and most of them play with stockpiling (even Kaos Normal, which most are hosted through HostngBuddy, has this feature.)
Perhaps those 98% that you took from somewhere - simply do not know and do not understand the real benefits of this function, however, like you. I wish you to finally understand this scheme and tell all your 98% of players about it.
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I just played some "Kaos Normal" hosted by Hosting Buddy. Apparently it even had Damage*2 in it which is some kind of huge misunderstanding :) Seems like someone put some rubbish into Hosting Buddy and not the legendary kaos scheme.
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seriously lupastic, the ppl who play "kaos" normal ag by hostingbuddy cant even be blamed for misunderstanding the scheme. they just see theres superweaps in crates and theres double damage plus you get multi shots. seems like easy stupid great fun for a round, no tactics or skill at all.
but thats not the scheme. just cuz ppl play it the wrong way and its popular for a while that way doesnt mean it has any sense. its not competitive at all, and what you said, every skilled player would for sure win 1 round is just the total wrong view. every noob can win 1 round of kaos with nice crates and places. esp when dtt and dd is active. thats why we dont use that stuff usually.
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I could revive the legendary official classic kaos league
Keeping supplies between rounds is an integral part of the tactics in this scheme and by abandoning this function you kill a large percentage of the interest in playing Kaos.
actually Sibasa, have you ever been to AG? If so, have you ever joined a Kaos host by others, which was not TUS kaos? then again, you can be pretty sure that 98% of players are playing 1 rounder, or 2 rounder Kaos matches, without stockpiling.
This is neither about TUS nor AG, it's about Kaos League. The scheme people in any of those places decide to play has nothing to do with the version played in Kaos League. If any of those players ever become interested in playing a Kaos League, they can come and post about those changes themselves.
That's more fair, and makes more sense. In 1 round match, you can't say that its luck based, because a more experienced kaos player even with the shittiest spawns, and getting the worst weapons from the crates will still always defeat a less experienced kaos player. No one plays it with stockpiling, only for TUS.
Are you implying a highly luck based scheme should be Bo1? Even when a match between two experienced players can be decided entirely by luck, if that were to happen?
And you can see how many tus league Kaos matches are being played in the past years.. :) ?? Not many, to say the least. ;D
Is this of any substance? Does this even mean anything?
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I just played some "Kaos Normal" hosted by Hosting Buddy. Apparently it even had Damage*2 in it which is some kind of huge misunderstanding :) Seems like someone put some rubbish into Hosting Buddy and not the legendary kaos scheme.
This is intentional. The "Kaos Normal" and "Kaos Pro" schemes on HB are separate for the exact reason being that Kaos Normal is more suited for fast-paced casual play on WormNET. Kaos Pro does not have double damage.
I also shall remind you that the original ("legendary") Kaos Scheme (https://worms2d.info/Kaos_Normal) did not even tweak any utility probabilities and had both Damage*2 and Crate Showers and was played that way for years before the Kaos League.
Unfortunately most people are still not aware that the scheme requires playing multiple rounds to win and quit early - despite reducing the number of required wins in Kaos Normal from 3 to 2. That said, there are a few people who do host Kaos Pro lobbies sometimes.
I studied extended 3.8 settings, but I can't see a way to turn off certain super weapons as well as completely turn off double time.
Super weapons can be turned off in the same way as before 3.8 - by setting their delay to 255. In 3.8 you only need to set the delay, ammo does not need to also be set.
In 3.8, Damage*2 can also be turned off individually in the same way through delay. However, there are no unique crate-probability settings for utilities available at this moment. This feature was cut due to time constraints (until update 3.9), but you can still access the old Kaosmods (https://worms2d.info/RubberWorm/Download#Pre-game_lobby_chat_interface) through the "RubberWorm" section. There is no kaosmod currently that completely disables double time. Kaosmod4 is currently used for the "Pro" scheme and kaosmod3 for the "Normal" scheme.
I would suggest experimenting with setting "No Crate Probability" (4th crate bar in scheme options) to 0 and then changing weapon and health crates to fall more often than utility crates - that could perhaps improve the balance of the scheme.
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Yes, I can understand several versions of the scheme existing, it's fine to have a variety. Yesterday I managed to find a hosted Kaos Pro game and it was the closest to what kaos scheme was intended to be.
I admit that kaos was played with Damage *2 and Crate Shower, BUT that was in very early years of its development 2009-2011 (first 2 of 8 seasons of the official league were played like that I think) and that is why I was ordering several kaosmods from Pisto back then to try to improve the scheme and make it more skill-based and not a luck-based.
Since many years now official development excludes Damage*2 and Crate Shower, although just yesterday I made a testscheme with a 25 maximum cratelimit and constant crateshower (without Damage*2 ofc) with majority of overpowered superweapons turned off and most strong weapons reduced which increased the pace of play and was actually interesting. I may release it soon as "Shower Kaos official 2021". It's a very interesting hybrid of kaos I think.
Although league version is to still be played on a somewhat "regular" scheme I can disclose some changes from the last official version. Major changes to adapt the scheme to modern times and make it even more skilled as the 2021 official edition will include:
- reducing turn time to 45 seconds to reduce the unbalanced effect of double time (as well as super sheep or jetpack excessive collecting), so players will need to involve little more creativity to get weapons.
- removing Teleport that ruined tactical endings (especially in caves where it took some time - even with Jetpack, to reach last worm for example).
- removing several overpowered super weapons and keeping just those tactical ones and less lethal strikes
- reducing probabilities of some key weapons (like Super Sheep - due to excessive collecting possibility, Mad Cow - because it comes as 3 units per crate and Ninja Rope (combined with lower power set at 1) - because it is one of too many collecting tools
I really wish utilities will become modifiable in 3.9 (I'm surprised it wasn't implemented in 3.8 already) to be able to remove Double Time from appearing in crates (maybe someone can create suitable "kaosmod6" that will turn off 3 instant effect utilities at once - Damage*2, Crate Shower and Double Time).
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The required amount of players have confirmed participation in the Official professional kaos league powered by Kf community so I can proudly announce that it will take place once again after longer hiatus (it's been over 6 years since last season was completed).
Usually the best players of this scheme gather to showcase their skills, creativity and all what it takes to succeed in kaos and compete for the title of the true champion of professional kaos.
I will disclose full details about this event in separate thread until the end of this week. Official scheme (2021 revision) that will be used for this event should be revealed very soon for you to get familiar with it before season starts. I will post full specification and just try to highlight in red all the changes that some of you may not be familiar with and what differs from the last major scheme revision that was around 7 years ago.
The players who joined this season so far (season 9 overall since 2010) are:
Sibasa
Hurz (kaos community member)
o (kaos community member)
Lupastic
Mega'Adnan
Kayz (kaos community management) - organisation help executive and scheme consultant
tita - signed by contacting me and not via this thread
and me Dream Trance (continuator of Mr Kaos' legacy, the official kaos scheme developer since 2009, founder of this official league back in 2010 and founder of kaos community).
Signups are still open until Friday 29 October (end of the day). Once knowing full list of players by the end of that day this will give me time to create fixtures to be played for each week (on the weekend of 30-31 October) and provisional deadlines of matches for your convenience. This will be the last step of information that will be revealed and season will be able to kick off on Monday 1st November (played until unknown yet date - this will depend on a number of players that will join).
Event information publishing schedule:
Tuesday 19 October: official kaos league scheme revision for 2021 will be revealed (along with a surprise version of kaos never published before).
Wednesday 20 October: hosting procedure and league format will be explained
Thursday 21 October: performance points system and potential crash issues handling will be explained
Friday 22 October: money prize system and other organisational details such as ranking updates and possible discord coverage will be explained
Saturday and Sunday 30 & 31 October: fixtures with deadlines will be announced
Monday 1st November: probable season start
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I'm pretty sure there are much more Kaos players out there, they just don't find this.. ><
Try to advertise it elsewhere as well, so we can get more participants.
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Yes exactly, I advertised on facebook, discord and snooper already a bit. Anyone that want to help promoting this - please help spreading word if you want this event to be even more exciting with more professional players on board.
Many of great kaos players and my good friends are also inactive at this moment in time as well, but anyone with decent skills is appreciated if they only want to.