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Leagues => Leagues Complaints => Topic started by: avirex on October 26, 2016, 08:04 PM

Title: [SOLVED] Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 26, 2016, 08:04 PM
i dont want to post a replay, or mention any names, because my opponent went into a complete rage when i said i would find out if this is legal or not.. lol..  so, i will save him some embarrassment for now.


Is it legal to host on big maps?? and if it is, should you at least make your opponent aware its a big map, and make sure they accept it??

i thought all big maps have you click on the map in the top right corner, because its a large file.. but this one did not, so i was not aware it was a big map until after the game started, and i took my first turn..

after my turn (i did attack, so it had nothing to do with a bad turn) i realized it was a big map, and i asked if we could rehost on a standard map... this guy started ranting about how im crying, and all i care about is wins, and i should stfu and play, im a pussy, etc.

all i want is a fair game, i have never in my w:a career have played on a large map in leagues... is it legal?
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Aladdin on October 26, 2016, 08:13 PM
I never played with large maps :/
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Peja on October 26, 2016, 08:28 PM
Spoiler! View
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-214064/


Spoiler! View
its about RIP ;D

Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: RIP on October 26, 2016, 08:45 PM
Spoiler! View
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-214064/


Spoiler! View
its about RIP ;D

Yep lol. J0hny loved play on big maps much years back and was ok. Dibz and other played on big maps and all was ok. I played it on maps in ttrr style in time how had novice roping and all was ok also.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: RIP on October 26, 2016, 08:58 PM
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-140926/   lol all from AeF xD
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 26, 2016, 09:05 PM
Spoiler! View
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-214064/


Spoiler! View
its about RIP ;D

Yep lol. J0hny loved play on big maps much years back and was ok. Dibz and other played on big maps and all was ok. I played it on maps in ttrr style in time how had novice roping and all was ok also.

i don't doubt at all that you have played big maps... and i don't doubt that others have as well, very rarely, but i'm sure it has happened...

The problem is, you did not make me or my team mate aware it was a big map, and we did not agree. When we found out, and asked for a RH you refused raged.. maybe there are rules saying you don't have to, im not sure. thats what im trying to find out....

im pretty sure though that in classic league, you play with classic maps... big maps are reserved for free league.

Anyway, we can just wait for an answer from the mods.

ps: i did ask several people in AG, people who have been playing in league for quite a while, the common answer was "dunno, never played on a big map"
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Kaleu on October 26, 2016, 09:13 PM
What a terrifying chat, this guy can't have a proper conversation without saying that you are whining over a simple question.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: RIP on October 26, 2016, 09:29 PM
What a terrifying chat, this guy can't have a proper conversation without saying that you are whining over a simple question.
u dont know. if all time some players not like maps. why i not asking all time change maps? coz this play on nervos.. or u play on all maps or is not league and sheet on baby party.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Senator on October 26, 2016, 09:48 PM
You can play on big maps but both clans/players need to agree on the map. You can request a normal size map but if you light up, that means you agree on the map.. If you can't see whether the map is normal size or not (details of the map look tinier in the preview box if big map), you can ask before lighting up.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: lalo on October 26, 2016, 09:59 PM
Why one should ask wether the maps is a big one or not? It should be the one that is hosting! Common sense ne1?
We had the same issue yesterday and we gave our opinion to rip. He doesnt give a shit.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: daiNa on October 26, 2016, 10:05 PM
Why there isnt a rule on this? We were kinda forced by rip aswell to play on these lame maps. We found out on game and were wondering about if this was legal or not. Also we couldnt have a serious conversation with him xD just wanna avoid playing big maps on clanners from now on
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 26, 2016, 10:16 PM
Senator, your not using logic here..

you expect me to ask everyone from now on if its a big map??? you don't think that is the hosts job?? I have never had someone host ANY league with a big map, so why in the hell would i ask that question??

that's like if the host puts on battyrope or some other crazy thing that im not aware about, then you come here telling me... "well avi, you lit up, so you agreed"

nah dude... use your head.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 26, 2016, 10:21 PM
i just realized that senator is a mod??? lol.. or was that some sort of typo by monkeyisland??

i want another opinion from a different MOD.

if big maps are accepted in league games, ok.. but i do believe BOTH sides should agree... and if your using some map that does not show that its a big map, you have to make your opponent aware, you can not say "you lit up, so you agreed" that's not fair in any such way.

i would never in a million years agree to a big map, and as soon as i found out it was a big map, i asked for a RH.. then RIP started acting like a child..

if the game does not get voided, basically RIP will be rewarded for tricking people with map size deception.

game vs. boo should be void as well tbh
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Senator on October 26, 2016, 10:29 PM
I just repeated what the rules say xd

From the league rules page:
Quote
Both players/clans need to agree on the map. If you light up, you agree on the map. Using auto-light up is strictly forbidden.

From announcements:
Summary:
  • Both players/clans need to agree on the map
  • If you light up, you agree on the map
  • Using auto-light up is strictly forbidden
If you light up, then that means you agree on the settings (scheme and map).

Those rules indeed indicate that "if you light up, it's your fault".

Imo it's ok if you request a rematch before any turn is played when you notice the map is not normal size.

And yeah it would be nice if the host told that the map is not normal size. But using a normal size map is not any rule. The host may as well think you are ok with the map cos usually it's possible to see from the preview if the map is big.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: RIP on October 26, 2016, 10:36 PM
Large cards were played for a long time. If all the games with them banned in the future or even remove, I will not worry.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: lalo on October 26, 2016, 10:39 PM
Rules are a guideline. If you see something is not fair and wrong you should be the first one to propose a change.
Avi, Dai and I as old players, we are confident our opponents will be fair and not trick us. We never ever had this experience before, and after that clanner played by us with Rip that should be a wake up call to change his attitude.

That rule should be fixed asap and mods should use common sense to make a right decision despite of what the guideline may say. I am not going to be asking in every single game if we are playing on a big map, it is insane!
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: RIP on October 26, 2016, 10:44 PM
You and so did kindergarten out of the league. All average players stopped playing league or avoid the majority of players. In top overal player who should have 50% winning max because cannot roping but playing or with noobies or with fake accounts. xD If this will continues, soon the league be play a maximum of 20 people.

So you are hosting ttrr against those who are not able to win this scheme and still trying to make their own adjustments to opponent schemes and change the rules for these schemes.  :D :-X
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: RIP on October 26, 2016, 10:52 PM
Rules are a guideline. If you see something is not fair and wrong you should be the first one to propose a change.
Avi, Dai and I as old players, we are confident our opponents will be fair and not trick us. We never ever had this experience before, and after that clanner played by us with Rip that should be a wake up call to change his attitude.

That rule should be fixed asap and mods should use common sense to make a right decision despite of what the guideline may say. I am not going to be asking in every single game if we are playing on a big map, it is insane!
....it is insane? hmmm u not think what for me insine play ttrr? so maybe me be how u and asking change ttrr maps on correct for me size? similar it https://www.tus-wa.com/maps/map-1670/
If we always will choose the card for that both sides were be delighted .... here it is will real madness. But you poke me the rules and probably waiting what i depict you in the lobby?
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: TheWalrus on October 26, 2016, 10:57 PM
For the record, I don't think RIP was trying to 'trick' anyone.  But, people should know what size map they are playing.  Seems like it should be standard to inform your opponent from now on.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Gabriel on October 26, 2016, 11:01 PM
Rules are a guideline. If you see something is not fair and wrong you should be the first one to propose a change.
Avi, Dai and I as old players, we are confident our opponents will be fair and not trick us. We never ever had this experience before, and after that clanner played by us with Rip that should be a wake up call to change his attitude.

That rule should be fixed asap and mods should use common sense to make a right decision despite of what the guideline may say. I am not going to be asking in every single game if we are playing on a big map, it is insane!
....it is insane? hmmm u not think what for me insine play ttrr? so maybe me be how u and asking change ttrr maps on correct for me size? similar it https://www.tus-wa.com/maps/map-1670/

Judging by these kind of comments you shouldn't waste your time trying to reason with him.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Senator on October 26, 2016, 11:09 PM
That rule should be fixed asap and mods should use common sense to make a right decision despite of what the guideline may say.

What decision? avirex asked "is it allowed to use big maps" and "does the host need to tell if the map is big" so I copy pasted the current rules for him. What decision were you even expecting? avirex said he noticed the map is not normal size only after his first turn. For sure he can't request a new map after turns are played. That has to happen before you place any worm on the map.

Rules are a guideline. If you see something is not fair and wrong you should be the first one to propose a change.

Hmm?
Imo it's ok if you request a rematch before any turn is played when you notice the map is not normal size.

And yeah it would be nice if the host told that the map is not normal size.

I've proposed changes to several TUS rules (scheme avoiding being the most recent).
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: RIP on October 26, 2016, 11:15 PM
lol i think need left to the league xD all want change rules for yourself xD AFG in shopper. Map censored on size and style of map in shopper xD what after? xD just u guys need delete Shopper from league and stop careful)) also delete ttrr and all avoiding players will back in league lol
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Sensei on October 27, 2016, 12:30 AM
sheet on baby party.

I think you all should take a deep breath and concetrate on words of a prophet!

LEAD US MASTER RIP!

Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 27, 2016, 01:00 AM
Senator, can you show me where in the rules it says thatlarge maps are legal?

What's next large maps in elite? Bng? O shit, large map roper, that sounds fun *rolls eyes*

This is classic league... not free league.

Also... if its OK to ask for a RH before anyone takes turn.... why can't I ask for a RH only after I took my own turn? That's when I found out about the big map, as I was taking my turn...

How can I agree to something that is unknown to me? Think about that, then give me a real answer... not a copy and paste from the rule book... because as lalo said, rules are a guideline, not a tell all.

Walrus, originally I did not think he was trying to trick anybody, I just thought he was lame... but now when I see he had this exact same problem with dain n lalo, kind of makes me think he is trying to trick people.  Yes.

BTW: rules tell me to finish game, make complaint later... what are you suggesting I should have done senator, quit directly after my turn? 

PS: can somebody please translate RIPs post for me? I'm pretty curious what he is saying.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Kradie on October 27, 2016, 04:45 AM
We gave our opinion to rip. He doesn't give a shit.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Peja on October 27, 2016, 05:14 AM
Rules are a guideline. If you see something is not fair and wrong you should be the first one to propose a change.
Avi, Dai and I as old players, we are confident our opponents will be fair and not trick us. We never ever had this experience before, and after that clanner played by us with Rip that should be a wake up call to change his attitude.

That rule should be fixed asap and mods should use common sense to make a right decision despite of what the guideline may say. I am not going to be asking in every single game if we are playing on a big map, it is insane!

you are the one who likes to turn a shopper into a roper by hosting mole like maps because you think its a more skillful challenge. now you complain about someone who turns shopper into bigrr? this discussion should not be about rules and picks, it should be about a definition of shopper.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Sbaffo on October 27, 2016, 07:11 AM
Time to remove hysteria and shopper from classic! :D
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Senator on October 27, 2016, 09:25 AM
Senator, can you show me where in the rules it says thatlarge maps are legal?

What's next large maps in elite? Bng? O shit, large map roper, that sounds fun *rolls eyes*

There's no written rule about it but there would be a rule if they were completely illegal. There are many Shopper/WxW maps that are bigger than 1920x696. It's ok to use them unless the other player/clan says no. For schemes like BnG and Elite the map should be normal size. This is even mentioned in the BnG rules. And using a Big RR map for TTRR, for example, is not ok. The so called common sense  can be used here. Elite and Hysteria are played on maps generated by the map editor so they are 1920x696. Roper and Team17 are played with border on so the maps are 1920x696. Big Shopper maps are a thing these days, big Elite maps aren't. Feel free to start building a new meta :D

Also... if its OK to ask for a RH before anyone takes turn.... why can't I ask for a RH only after I took my own turn? That's when I found out about the big map, as I was taking my turn...

How can I agree to something that is unknown to me? Think about that, then give me a real answer... not a copy and paste from the rule book... because as lalo said, rules are a guideline, not a tell all.

Think about it. The line has to be drawn somewhere. We would also get complaints like "his worm placements were bad" or "his first turn wasn't really good". It's much more practical to have a clear rule such as "you can't request a normal size map after you have placed a worm on the map". That's why there is a clear rule "if you light up, you agree on the map". Many of the TUS rules are carefully considered by MI/DarkOne. As we see, there can still be some flaws.

If you don't notice the map is not normal size before you place your first worm, then it's really your own fault and you should pay a little more attention.

BTW: rules tell me to finish game, make complaint later... what are you suggesting I should have done senator, quit directly after my turn? 

You should have said "hey this is not normal size map, rematch please" before you placed your first worm. After that the game would need to be replayed.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Sensei on October 27, 2016, 10:04 AM
Senator does have a point here. If after 8 placed worms and 1 played turn, you decide that map is not suitable for your desire, i say: f@#! off! You should have mentioned it earlier.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: RIP on October 27, 2016, 10:22 AM
Why do you have a problem this year and now? I can find more than a hundred games where another player hosts the big map. I myself lost a lot of games on these cards that have been selected against me. It was always legal and commonplace until the time of the complaints did not become a hit.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: RIP on October 27, 2016, 10:26 AM
Dial the 50 people who have played or are playing league and create new rules from the views of all! these players.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Husk on October 27, 2016, 11:52 AM
toi vitun sääntö on kyl aika syöpää |: jos käyn paskalla ku viholline laittaa shopper kartan, tuun takas koneelle ja painan valoa ku se on venannu mua 5 minsaa, sit laitan mun madot ja rupeen naruttaa ja huomaan että vittu tää kartta on iso, nii on liian myöhästä kysyä uutta karttaa? jotenki tuntuu että kärpäsestä tehdään härkänen, surr ja kartan vaihto ja toiminta jatkuu
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: nino on October 27, 2016, 12:33 PM
toi vitun sääntö on kyl aika syöpää |: jos käyn paskalla ku viholline laittaa shopper kartan, tuun takas koneelle ja painan valoa ku se on venannu mua 5 minsaa, sit laitan mun madot ja rupeen naruttaa ja huomaan että vittu tää kartta on iso, nii on liian myöhästä kysyä uutta karttaa? jotenki tuntuu että kärpäsestä tehdään härkänen, surr ja kartan vaihto ja toiminta jatkuu

Lfmao dude!!!!
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Korydex on October 27, 2016, 01:21 PM
Time to remove hysteria and shopper from classic! :D
+1 man! genius!
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 27, 2016, 03:34 PM
Why is there some common sense thing for ttrr, and roper?

The fact that you said that is proof you have a biased point of view.

Your opinion is that they are not allowed in most scheme, and that's obvious, but they are allowed in shoppa? O rly?

I have never seen a big map in classic league... my point is not that they should not be allowed, but they should be agreed on... (it should be the host job to inform everyone involved in the game, not my job to measure the map, and make sure it's the proper amount of pixels, wake up sen.)

I had no idea it was a big map until I started playing man, I had no way of knowing just because people placed worms that's stupid.. and I'm not going to grab a ruler, and measure all maps before I place my worms from this point forward (because that is exactly what your suggesting right? Considering I have no way to know prior to lighting.. only way to truly know for sure is too measure)

So in summary, your biased opinion is that big maps are not allowed in most scheme, due to common sense, but they are allowed in some due to maps existing in said schemes. And to top it all off, if I light, I accept, regardless of unforeseen circumstances?

Well, thanks for your truly shitty MOD opinion... any other mods wanna take a look here and voice their thoughts? MI, D1, barman?
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Senator on October 27, 2016, 05:01 PM
You still fail to understand that I'm just telling how I think the TUS rules are and what's the reasoning behind them. Stupid or not, to my knowledge big Shopper maps are allowed while Big RR maps in TTRR aren't. I've been saying from my very first post that both clans/players need to agree on the map.

And you are totally ignoring how this could be abused: you fail a turn / worm placement and then start requesting a normal size map. Btw I checked that clanner game. I don't know about you but I noticed right away that the map is much higher than a normal map.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: MonkeyIsland on October 27, 2016, 05:21 PM
This is how the map looks like in the lobby:

[attachment=1]

There are empty spaces on both sides of the preview, which is clearly saying that's not a normal sized map. Big maps could fit all those spaces if they have the same aspect ratio, but then the game will give you the big map warning.
So you (and Aladdin) failed to notice the map doesn't look normal-sized, you teleported your worms, played your first turn and then started complaining?

i just realized that senator is a mod??? lol.. or was that some sort of typo by monkeyisland??

i want another opinion from a different MOD.

Well, thanks for your truly shitty MOD opinion... any other mods wanna take a look here and voice their thoughts? MI, D1, barman?

I find your attitude "pretty shitty". First you belittle Senator then after he states the rules you demand another mod. Are you an unhappy customer and you aren't happy with the service? So we must switch mods until one of them agrees with your point of view?

Senator is doing a fine job as a mod. He's actually doing more than I expected.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: reN`s on October 27, 2016, 05:39 PM
delete the stupid shopper from classic league lol who like this scheme is too bored to play rofl and fixed ! xD
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: h3oCharles on October 27, 2016, 06:23 PM
This is how the map looks like in the lobby:

IMAGE GOES HERE

That, and also in advanced settings you can request to always give a warning about a color map, causing to display it's size in pixels.

EDIT1: It's called Map memory warning
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 27, 2016, 08:03 PM
1) you don't think it's possible to make a color map that is narrow? Because that's what I thought it was from the lobby, a narrow map. There is nothing wrong with a narrow map (well at least not a reason for me complain) people host elites on maps that at times are way too narrow, and if they were in .png format they would have gaps on both sides on the lobby, but you won't find me here complaining that issue...I really don't see how some empty spaces mean it's clearly a big map... looks like MOD number 2 doesn't have a clue what he's talking about

2) I have been back a week, and I'm playing on a aptop that I'm not familiar with screen size or res....if either of you watched the game you would see thht even after my turn I asked "is this a big map?" So all the evidence points to me not knowing... no body else took a turn but me, and I attacked. You could then say "well people could then say you had a bad tele, or bad crate" or you could go watch the replay and see that was not the case.

3) MI my quotes clearly showed I was surprised by his MOD title, so much so that I thought you could have made a mistake... I'm only looking out for you, and the well being of Tus. It could be a bad situation if you made a mistake of that caliber, or worse, someone hacked the site.

Also I never asked to switch mods, as in get a new MOD that can handle the job.. I'm sure generally senator does a fine job (just not in this scenario)  I asked to get another opinion from another MOD.

I don't know why I bothered, because I recall situations in the past, you MODS generally all stick together.. even if the entire community knows the original ruling was horrible, the MODS stick together. After all we wouldn't want to "belittle" anyone

4) can you find me a reason I would not ask for another MOD. And show me how he did it a good job. He himself only copy and pasted some rules, told us all his biased interpretation of the rules (which schemes he feels are obvious to allow big maps and which are not) and then rather then making a ruling with my specific game in mind he just said vague shit like "people could say you had a bad crate or bad tele" so let's throw the facts of the visible proof (replay) out the window, and let's worry about what people could say? Interesting approach to this MOD job, wouldn't ya say?

5) clearly the 2 of you think that I should either watch for the small details in the lobby, ask "is this a big map" prior to each game, measure the map before I place worms, or just know from first glance, ignoring different reasons on why I wouldn't. Rather then the most obvious, thing to do, which is....

 "the host must make any unforeseen details clear to opponents before the game starts, or the game is  subject to being void"

That's like me hosting a game with the power of zook up in a rope game, then saying "welllllllllll light means they accept, check rules gg "

See how some people might think that's unfair?

At this point I don't care about the game... but I think me, and many other people would be interested in a rule change... I don't think anyone is asking to ban big maps, but you should be made aware of it before the game starts. Most people would think that's obvious, but because certain mods like to ONLY refer to rule books, rather then game to game situations, while using rule book as a guideline.. and because there is at least one player not mature enough to tell people what's going on.

There needs to be a rule change.

PS: sorry post is long, but I just want to point out MI , that if you believe it was such an obvious thing in the game lobby, how come dainub and lalo were tricked as well? A combined 30+ years of experiences were all tricked into accepting a game we otherwise wouldn't.. and mods see not a damn thing wrong? It's blowing my mind
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: nino on October 27, 2016, 09:53 PM
nice komo's post and talking about komo if MI in the past, had allowed komo to be a MOD nothing of this would be happening cos he would use the common sense, brb 5 years!!! huahuahuahua
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: ANO on October 27, 2016, 09:59 PM
take some effort to make things shorter. porco dio, ma non avete un cazzo da fare?
https://translate.google.com/?hl=it#it/en/porco%20dio%2C%20ma%20non%20avete%20un%20cazzo%20da%20fare%3F
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: TheKomodo on October 27, 2016, 11:04 PM
Senator is generally a good MOD, but both him and MI are being extremely dumb right now considering the circumstances and evidence.

Just make the new rule, keep people happy, or keep making lame decisions as MODs and keep killing the community.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 27, 2016, 11:05 PM
Sometimes you have to cover all the bases, for people to understand, and hopefully see things clearer.

What's worse though, me typing a long post, because it's something im currently involved in, or you having absolutely nothing to do with this thread, yet coming here to read it, comment, then copy and paste your comment to google translate, then copy and paste your link under your comment...

Sorry cool dude pig god, but I think you just won the "I don't have anything better to do" contest
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: TheWalrus on October 27, 2016, 11:11 PM
On an unrelated note, this would make a nice 3.8 update extension, a notification if the map is a large map or not.

It's quite easy to see if a map is large map, I can always spot them, but some other people are not as good at figuring it out i guess, and a prompt would be nice for them.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 27, 2016, 11:36 PM
I don't play them..  I was under the impression they always have that icon to click, to accept them.

Wally: themadcharles guy said there is already a feature like that, in advanced settings... dunno how true it is...

As I said, I thought by default I have to click to accept a big map... I had no reason to suspect it was big, focus on the gaps on the side, inspect the game before I placed my worms, or even ask... I assumed since it did not make me click, it was a standard size color png map

Mods need to make an updated rule, any modification to the scheme, or the map, that is not considered classic should be made well aware to opponents. It's simple...  I'm not sure we need to have an update because one guy is pulling trickery.

PS: walrus, did you check the screen shot of the map MI hosted? How exactly can you tell that it's a big map? MI suggested that because it has gaps on the side, it suggests it's a big map.. that's simply just not true... that looks no different then a ffie Mario map for example.. there is nothing stopping someone from making a narrow map.

So what's your truck to spotting the big map in this situation, that the rest of us are unfamiliar with?
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Senator on October 28, 2016, 12:53 AM
avirex,
1. You asked at a general level without attaching a replay so I answered at a general level: yes, you can use big Shopper maps and no, there's no rule that the host should inform about the map size. There was this "light up = agree" rule which seemed fine to me because I can easily spot large maps. Then I said you could request a new map when you haven't placed your worms. Again, I can see easily in the game if the map is notably bigger without actually roping.
2. it's a fact that in some schemes big maps are allowed while in some they are not. It wasn't my interpretation. I just figured out some possible reasons why it's like that. Like if you wan't a bordered Roper map, it limits the map size to 1920x696 while for Shopper there are no limits cos the maps can be borderless and made outside WA's map editor.
3. yes, I try to find generalizable rules for all the cases cos it makes things easier. That means no judging whether your first turn was successful or not. If I did judge the state of the game, yes, in this specific case a rematch request after the first turn would be as fine as when placing worms.

My opponents have never informed me about the map size when they have picked a large Shopper map. They have just lighted up and I've said no, I don't accept a big map. I can imagine they would have forgotten / not realized to inform me even if it had been obligatory because it's not exceptional that a Shopper map is bigger than 1920x696 these days. Your powered up zooka comparison is just awful cos the map preview is something people always look at before they light up.

So you want a rule that you must inform the opponent about a large map? OK, I already said it would be nice if the host did that. What if the host forgets to do that? How long can you play before requiring a map change? One turn? Even if you fail your turn?
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 28, 2016, 05:36 AM
Oh please senator, your back pedaling..

Op : question/complaint

I agree I didn't post the replay, I planned to after I got an answer, but Peja did it for me.

You know you dropped the ball on this one dude, it's cool.. I don't care about the void anymore, I just wanted to make a point more or less... and hopefully I did, I don't think people should be taken advantage of like this.

It's not only about my taste in maps, but I can't see to rope in these maps, the screen does not follow fast enough, I know there is some key combo, but I don't know it (I pm Aladdin asking him if he knew) also it's very hard for me to find crates, where as others have patches.

So it did not come down to mypersonal map  preference, it came down to putting me at a clear disadvantage without me even agreeing to it...

Anyway, you MI and walrus have all told me about this secret way you have to point out big maps instantly from the thumb nail in the game lobby before you light...  I'm really interested in hearing this method from any of the 3 of you, because gaps on the side I just don't think is a good method. I feel like if I wanted I can recreate the exact thumb nail. In a legal size map... unless I'm mistaken that's not a valid way to know of is a big map or not... so please tell me how you can be so sure as you say, so I can avoid these troubles in the future... honestly that's all I really want.. if there is a way to determine without light that I'm not aware of, then this was a misunderstanding on my part, and I had no reason to complain... I can't be mad at my own lack of knowledge.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: WTF-8 on October 28, 2016, 07:03 AM
I know there is some key combo, but I don't know it
one doesn't simply rtfm >>> http://worms2d.info/Controls <<< plus there's a local copy of W:A manual available in W:A root folder

Ctrl + Home
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Senator on October 28, 2016, 09:41 AM
Nah man. You spread false statements about what I have said/mean't so I wanted to correct you. "Biased interpretations of the rules" is not correct. Other mods wouldn't void a Shopper game that was played on large map but they would void a TTRR game that was played on a Big RR map.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: MonkeyIsland on October 28, 2016, 11:38 AM
@avirex,

For the record, I never claimed that empty spaces equals big map.  This is what I said:

There are empty spaces on both sides of the preview, which is clearly saying that's not a normal sized map. Big maps could fit all those spaces if they have the same aspect ratio, but then the game will give you the big map warning.
So you (and Aladdin) failed to notice the map doesn't look normal-sized, you teleported your worms, played your first turn and then started complaining?

It literally takes ONE GLANCE at the map preview to see that the map isn't normal-sized. After you make such simple observation, it makes you curious. So you ask the host "is that a big map or is it a narrow map?"

Frankly, I find it interesting how you can't take responsibility for a simple mistake of yours and act like you're completely the victim of bad rules.

I feel like if I wanted I can recreate the exact thumb nail. In a legal size map... unless I'm mistaken that's not a valid way to know of is a big map or not... so please tell me how you can be so sure as you say, so I can avoid these troubles in the future...

As far as I know the game generates the thumbnail. I see no reason the game allows you to make your custom thumbnail. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: TheKomodo on October 28, 2016, 12:18 PM
It literally takes ONE GLANCE at the map preview to see that the map isn't normal-sized. After you make such simple observation, it makes you curious. So you ask the host "is that a big map or is it a narrow map?"

Frankly, I find it interesting how you can't take responsibility for a simple mistake of yours and act like you're completely the victim of bad rules.

It's actually a horrible feeling when you see the people in control making unreasonable statements like this.

Similar to what I said in the other thread, the majority of games in Classic League are played in normal sized maps, so the majority of players can possibly be caught off guard with a big map, surprise surprise, 4 very well respected and talented players have been caught like this...(That we only discovered in last few days alone.)

"such simple observation" - Who are you? God? Do you see all and know all? Humans are not perfect, not everyone knows the ins and out of everything, not everyone notices the "signs"...

It is not a mistake of avirex, it should be the hosts responsibility to alert ALL players(even his own clan) for picking a rare and abnormal map type.

Not only is it more logical, it's good manners and promotes a healthy spirit.

What you propose infuriates more people than making a rule so the host should alert the players to any abnormal map sizes.

Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: RIP on October 28, 2016, 12:26 PM
It literally takes ONE GLANCE at the map preview to see that the map isn't normal-sized. After you make such simple observation, it makes you curious. So you ask the host "is that a big map or is it a narrow map?"

Frankly, I find it interesting how you can't take responsibility for a simple mistake of yours and act like you're completely the victim of bad rules.

It's actually a horrible feeling when you see the people in control making unreasonable statements like this.

Similar to what I said in the other thread, the majority of games in Classic League are played in normal sized maps, so the majority of players can possibly be caught off guard with a big map, surprise surprise, 4 very well respected and talented players have been caught like this...(That we only discovered in last few days alone.)

"such simple observation" - Who are you? God? Do you see all and know all? Humans are not perfect, not everyone knows the ins and out of everything, not everyone notices the "signs"...

It is not a mistake of avirex, it should be the hosts responsibility to alert ALL players(even his own clan) for picking a rare and abnormal map type.

Not only is it more logical, it's good manners and promotes a healthy spirit.

What you propose infuriates more people than making a rule so the host should alert the players to any abnormal map sizes.
u kidding me? if be they had the victory, how in previous games they would have remained silent.
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-202703/
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-213479/
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: TheKomodo on October 28, 2016, 12:33 PM
u kidding me? if be they had the victory, how in previous games they would have remained silent.

What difference does it make who wins? Everybody loses, and can accept defeat happily, the point here is about notifying participating players of special map types before the game begins.

It's not the end of the world lol, but surely the person who wants to use a different type of map, should be the person to stand up and inform the other players? "Hi, it's a big map, ok?", especially as there is a rule which means it's possible to refuse a map and request a change.

Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: RIP on October 28, 2016, 12:54 PM
u kidding me? if be they had the victory, how in previous games they would have remained silent.

What difference does it make who wins? Everybody loses, and can accept defeat happily, the point here is about notifying participating players of special map types before the game begins.

It's not the end of the world lol, but surely the person who wants to use a different type of map, should be the person to stand up and inform the other players? "Hi, it's a big map, ok?", especially as there is a rule which means it's possible to refuse a map and request a change.
Hi, it's RIP and he like big maps. 4 players who now avoid it can asking me for a map in shopper.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Tomi on October 28, 2016, 01:48 PM
it should be the hosts responsibility to alert ALL players(even his own clan) for picking a rare and abnormal map type.

Finally somebody has thought about me too! :D i was suffering there too, not only you! Or do you think i played any big map shopper in the last 3-4 years? Guess what, no ^^ but i am that generation of wormers who started this game when there were a lot of tower / big rr hosts, so i kinda remembered how to play these maps. They require only some big map experience, which is not bad to have at all. You are maybe just too oldschool and didn't play towers with those noobs, but only tus games. Anyway, it was good to bring back some memories, so thx rip :D

To the ones crying here: you can always ask to change the map, because teams must agree on the map. And I also suggest you to turn on the feature TheMadCharles suggested some posts ago (maybe it should be automatic in the game?), so you can be sure about the map size. Now you lost about 20 points, next time you can ask to change the map if you don't want to play it and problem is solved. (Or you can try out something "new") In my opinion these maps can bring some color into this league, so i am not against them, but i guess from now on only tdc might apply to play such a map ^^
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 28, 2016, 05:39 PM
I love when people don't read the thread and just jump in and make comments that mean shit.

There was not a single person that said they were against big maps in the league.. if Tomi and rip want to go play big map Tue games, enjoy yourself.

But I should not have to, and I should not be tricked into it... EVERY piece of evidence points to me not knowing it was a big map, I asked for a RH, and this guy raged, calling me a pussy etc. And you mods are just rewarding him for his behavior.. it's really quite surprising how your acting..


Monkey Island: there is a wxw that I know of that is very short, and narrow (gaps on sides) but it's not a big map, it's just rather small, not utilizing all of the classic map size capabilities.. so what your suggesting is I have to be untrusting of everyone and I now have to ask all the time if it's a big map or not, rather then the very simple, and very logical alternative of the host informing every one involved in the game that it's a big map? Are you guys even serious? Or is this some kind of Halloween joke?
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: RIP on October 28, 2016, 05:52 PM
I love when people don't read the thread and just jump in and make comments that mean shit.

There was not a single person that said they were against big maps in the league.. if Tomi and rip want to go play big map Tue games, enjoy yourself.

But I should not have to, and I should not be tricked into it... EVERY piece of evidence points to me not knowing it was a big map, I asked for a RH, and this guy raged, calling me a pussy etc. And you mods are just rewarding him for his behavior.. it's really quite surprising how your acting..


Monkey Island: there is a wxw that I know of that is very short, and narrow (gaps on sides) but it's not a big map, it's just rather small, not utilizing all of the classic map size capabilities.. so what your suggesting is I have to be untrusting of everyone and I now have to ask all the time if it's a big map or not, rather then the very simple, and very logical alternative of the host informing every one involved in the game that it's a big map? Are you guys even serious? Or is this some kind of Halloween joke?
OMG You explained a few people, and MI. If you still do not understand, go and read from the beginning.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Husk on October 28, 2016, 11:42 PM
RIP is one of the best trolls of TUS xD
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 29, 2016, 01:51 AM
RIP is one of the best trolls of TUS xD

if by troll you mean, he types a bunch of bullshit, that nobody really takes much notice to, or even bothers responding, then yes... hes a hell of a troll :D

there has not been one post by him, that i could understand more then 50% of his message, and i can only imagine everyone else is in the same shoes as me, considering no one ever responds to him.. lol its almost as if his posts are not even there.

PS: MI, i know your waiting in hopes that senator wakes up, and smells the coffee, because your not going to over rule him...  but, that's not going to happen... senator is stuck in his twisted head that abnormal maps are the norm around here.

so, just lock this thread. its done.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: reN`s on October 29, 2016, 04:45 AM
f@#! that shit lol RIP pick shopper against me and put a big shopper map  really i cant play in this stupid big map because i don't have any module for watch all cr8s like /arrows and think this is a big adventage for some players with this module thats is why i rage quit and ask him please join my pick zDDDD
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: ANO on October 29, 2016, 08:46 AM
Is this?
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-214064/

I have played many times shopper on this kind of map in clanners, this is the first time I see a complaint and someone arguing in chat. 

For the same reason people should say when they are under the effect of turboweed in rope race. make rules clear, please! FFS 

Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Senator on October 29, 2016, 12:49 PM
PS: MI, i know your waiting in hopes that senator wakes up, and smells the coffee, because your not going to over rule him...  but, that's not going to happen... senator is stuck in his twisted head that abnormal maps are the norm around here.

Complaint thread is a place where both parts of the case + mod(s) share their points. Then comes the final decision. If you look at previous complaints, mods can ask for other mods' opinion and even have a vote. MI and I have disagreed on some things behind the scenes and we have asked an opinion from a third mod. We don't need to stick together. So far in this thread I have mostly just stated the current rules/practice of TUS, I haven't used "mod's discretion" much. I have said that imo it's ok to request a rematch when you haven't placed worms on the map (that was when I thought it's easy for all the people to detect a big map), that's it. You were just so quick to attack on me personally when you should have rather attacked on TUS rules/practice.

In this case there wasn't even a decision to be made at first cos you said that you don't want to post a replay or mention any names. Now you wan't this specific game to be void so we need a decision.

Here comes my vote: the game should stay
- currently there's no rule that the host should inform about a big map
- your rematch request was justifiable. It came a little late but it's not a problem in this case.
- before your second turn, you said that you will continue the game
- instead of surrendering/quitting, you played till the end and tried to win

Now MI can give his vote. I don't mind if he disagrees with me. I think both sides have valid arguments. If it's 1-1, then MI's vote decides cos he is the boss.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 29, 2016, 02:38 PM
"Here comes my vote: the game should stay
- currently there's no rule that the host should inform about a big map
- your rematch request was justifiable. It came a little late but it's not a problem in this case.
- before your second turn, you said that you will continue the game
- instead of surrendering/quitting, you played till the end and tried to win"



so you agree my request was justified? but you don't think the game should be voided, because i followed the rules, and continued the game? that's actually a very interesting point of view senator.

the rules tell me to continue the game, and make a complaint later... you cant have people quitting games every time they think a rule was violated, or they think they are right, and the other is wrong.

i did what i was supposed to do, and you want to penalize me for it??  if i had quit, then it would have been RIP here making a complaint, and asking for free win... and i bet he would get the free win... because its against the rules to quit senator.

[dt`wreckz] this is a big map?? why?
[dt`wreckz] i wanna RH, on a normal map
[RIP`AeF`tr] and why other pick ttrr vs me?
[dt`wreckz] im not playing on big map sorry
[RIP`AeF`tr] play
[dt`wreckz] no thnx
[RIP`AeF`tr] u can surrender
[RIP`AeF`tr] its 3 game shopper
[RIP`AeF`tr] after will be free win

and your penalizing me for not quitting senator??? please, read everything i wrote here, go have a cigg while you think about it, and then come back and change your decision.


anyway, im confident MI will say void if he looks at the facts.


ps: thank you for finally make a decision, hopefully your level headed enough to see it was a bad one, but at least you made one...  MI, after your decision, lock the thread, lets move on from this...

PSS: REMEMBER ALL!! GO VOTE!!! VOTE OR DIE!! YOUR VOTE COUNTS!!! LETS MAKE WORMS GREAT AGAIN!!! lol

https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/tus-discussion/poll-for-a-new-rule-29945/msg251870/#new
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Tomi on October 29, 2016, 02:59 PM
One more note: If I remember well, that game was the rematch of a shopper we played some days earlier where we had quite big advantage, but dt dropped. That's why rip raged like the 3rd game will be free win or something like that.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Sensei on October 29, 2016, 03:02 PM
This big map thread is both, thrilling and interesting! Hope there'll be a sequel someday.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Senator on October 29, 2016, 03:34 PM
My point is that you shouldn't have a chance to win without having a chance to lose. You decided to continue so you accepted the map. I think that's a valid point to keep the game. I don't care if MI decides otherwise, my point still remains.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: TheKomodo on October 29, 2016, 05:27 PM
You decided to continue so you accepted the map. I think that's a valid point to keep the game.

Are you an idiot or what???

It doesn't matter who wins or loses the rules say you must finish the game THEN make a complaint, what else is someone supposed to f@#!ing do, your ignorance is starting to get really f@#!ing annoying!

f@#! it please just ban me again this place is a f@#!ing joke now...
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 29, 2016, 05:43 PM
Dude, I followed the rules so your penalizing me? If I had quit, rip would have complained, and they would have got a free win, and you would have told me "avi, never quit a game, finish then complain"

Use your head senator, be a f@#!ing good MOD instead of handling this with your emotions, because that's clearly what your doing right now... you can't admit that your wrong, and your emotion is getting the best of you.

Also, keep in mind I never wanted the game to be a free chance to win, with no option to lose... your acting like I entered the game, and was like "oh cool, you tricked me into this map, so guess what void game...  but let's continue incase I win" did I say that senator?

I respectfully asked for a RH, and RIP declined with anything but respect.

I even tried telling him that if he's breaking rules, this game is a waste of time and will be void... he continued to rage, and be disrespectful.

Senator, I'm sure you usually a good MOD. But right now your the worst I have ever see

BTW, who are you to say "Idc if MI decides otherwise" ? Your a funny guy...


I hope MI sees through your nonsense
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: lalo on October 29, 2016, 05:57 PM
Damm, this is classic league, which means classic league schemes and maps. Not dumb huge maps where you cannot see shit. This classic league is already ruined with hyst and now I have to be wondering if the host wants me to play in such maps.
Okay I dont mind if someone wants me to play in those silly maps, but that person should at least tell me. Is that request something hard to accomplish or am I asking too much?
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 29, 2016, 05:59 PM
Apparently we are asking way too much lalo
How dare you wish to be informed of scheme and maps before lighting! Outrageous
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: lalo on October 29, 2016, 06:07 PM
Edit: nvm, Im done here.  ;D
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: MonkeyIsland on October 29, 2016, 08:19 PM
@Senator,
You've done enough, I'll take this from here. Thanks for taking time. :)

@Komo,
You're banned.

@lalo,
You don't have to play on big maps. Maps need to be agreed upon before the match starts. I don't know why you should make such comment:

I am not going to be asking in every single game if we are playing on a big map, it is insane!

Lots of times people argue about their scheme pick in the lobby for several minutes until somebody yells "pick a scheme already".  I don't see why a simple "no big map please" sounds insane to you?


@avirex,
Stop mixing scheme and maps. Schemes already have their rules.

Quote from: rules
You must use the official schemes found on the schemes page. If you host and use the incorrect scheme without telling them, your opponent has the right to replay the game with the correct scheme.

I'm gonna repeat. The map thumbnail is in the lobby, on the top-right corner. If the thumbnail does not fit the thumbnail section, it means the map is not W:A's default size. It does not necessarily mean it is a big map, it just means the map size is not normal. That is a clear observation which takes less than a second. If a player sees such thumbnail, they'll know that the map is not normal, so they'll start a conversation with the host about the map, if they want to. The clue of the map size is RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR EYES.

You failed to notice. Because of WHATEVER reason. Next time pay attention to the map thumbnail instead of accusing your opponent for tricking you.

The game stands.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Sensei on October 29, 2016, 08:40 PM
MI, send me your picture, so I can remove Clint Eastwood from profile.
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Hurz on October 29, 2016, 09:11 PM
word
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: TheWalrus on October 29, 2016, 09:24 PM
MI, send me your picture, so I can remove Clint Eastwood from profile.
lol
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: xSniperx on October 30, 2016, 01:16 AM

@Komo,
You're banned.


lol
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Hurz on October 30, 2016, 01:38 AM

@Komo,
You're banned.


lol



f@#! it please just ban me again this place is a f@#!ing joke now...
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: Husk on October 30, 2016, 04:52 AM
YOU LIGHT YOU AGREE
Title: Re: Complaint / Question
Post by: avirex on October 30, 2016, 07:21 PM
thats right senator, fall back son!! your master has spoken.

ok MI, thanks for your poor judgement, better luck next time on MOD'ing.

can lock thread now ae?  or were you waiting to hear from me? **kisses**