The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Leagues => Leagues Games Comments => Topic started by: Triad on March 05, 2024, 06:18 PM
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[dF-blitzed`zar] who is eegy u knew him?
e3gy was one of the best Turkish freestyle ropers, his name still comes up among Turkish ropers today
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e3gy was one of the best Turkish freestyle ropers, his name still comes up among Turkish ropers today
Ow, nice video, he is very skilled freestyler for sure. I like his WxW maps so much! Especially this butterfly map is a pure art.
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Definitely a skilled roper, such a shame you can't hear the sound of the rope in that video though.
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Since when community talks in superlatives about guys using cheats for roping?
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Since when community talks in superlatives about guys using cheats for roping?
roping looked a little wack but wasn’t gonna say anything about it :P
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Since when community talks in superlatives about guys using cheats for roping?
If you count using two spacebar keys as a cheat, sure.
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roping looked a little wack but wasn’t gonna say anything about it :P
How? Looks like pretty normal top tier roping to me lol.
Not to mention it's all small clips taken from thousands of hours of practise.
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Since when community talks in superlatives about guys using cheats for roping?
What cheats was he using? Do you have any proofs or just a guess? Just interesting, because I only see superfast shadows, which cannot be performed consistent and reliably way without macro / special script.
roping looked a little wack but wasn’t gonna say anything about it :P
Any wack moments? Please post it with timecodes. I'm not going to argue or defend anyone, I'm just interested in seeing wack moments that I don't see (except superfast shadows as I said above).
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Myself, Mablak, and various others can do everything shown in that video and can do it live on stream with proof.
Not saying we'd nail it immediately but show any one of those clips and you could do it live on stream showing webcam and keyboard inputs within 30 minutes.
There are a number of players much better than what is shown in that video.
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What cheats was he using? Do you have any proofs or just a guess? Just interesting, because I only see superfast shadows, which cannot be performed consistent and reliably way without macro / special script.
Any wack moments? Please post it with timecodes. I'm not going to argue or defend anyone, I'm just interested in seeing wack moments that I don't see (except superfast shadows as I said above).
im taking about the guy egy or whatever, i remember roping with him and his keyboard would spazz out like it was on drugs sometimes and do completely unrealistic tapping things. Didnt watch the full video, I just remember his roping, im not smart enough to know what would produce such a thing. I just know with the eye test when i see stuff that isnt possible.
EDIT: just watched the video, its pretty good, dunno if he stopped using his macro/program thing cause the roping doesn't look very unrealistic as komo said
Too bad I don't have my game replays going that far back, im sure i could show you some of the weird roping things i seen this egy guy do
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im taking about the guy egy or whatever, i remember roping with him and his keyboard would spazz out like it was on drugs sometimes and do completely unrealistic tapping things. Didnt watch the full video, I just remember his roping, im not smart enough to know what would produce such a thing. I just know with the eye test when i see stuff that isnt possible.
EDIT: just watched the video, its pretty good, dunno if he stopped using his macro/program thing cause the roping doesn't look very unrealistic as komo said
Too bad I don't have my game replays going that far back, im sure i could show you some of the weird roping things i seen this egy guy do
I'm talking about him too. I didn't get which things you label as "unrealistic": anything from this video or from old replays where you've played with him? I'd like to see the timecodes or something.
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I'm talking about him too. I didn't get which things you label as "unrealistic": anything from this video or from old replays where you've played with him? I'd like to see the timecodes or something.
anecdotal (personal) experience of playing with him in the past, don’t know if you’ve ever seen this super fast rope spasm thing, we need someone who knows more than me to know which program does it. Someone I play with in this community semi-regularly, his rope does the same glitchy type thing, so maybe I’ll ask him what program/macro he uses.
It looks really unnatural when you see it though.
Again, not talking about the video so stop asking me for timestamps lol :P
Already more involved in this then I want to be
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anecdotal (personal) experience of playing with him in the past, don’t know if you’ve ever seen this super fast rope spasm thing, we need someone who knows more than me to know which program does it.
It looks really unnatural when you see it though.
this old program maybe? https://worms2d.info/Constipated_Silkworm
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Triad and flash - I don't have proof. Although, it's a known fact that freestylers use scripts and don't even try to hide it. Can't respect the rope skill they show, but I personally respect the honesty behind it. Most of them admitted using forbidden macro to rope the way they rope, after I asked.
If I'm wrong about e3gy, will gladly apologise and bite my tongue. But the real questions are - why you guys are so sure he's not cheating and can you prove it? Thanks.
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Triad and flash - I don't have proof. Although, it's a known fact that freestylers use scripts and don't even try to hide it. Can't respect the rope skill they show, but I personally respect the honesty behind it. Most of them admitted using forbidden macro to rope the way they rope, after I asked.
If I'm wrong about e3gy, will gladly apologise and bite my tongue. But the real questions are - why you guys are so sure he's not cheating and can you prove it? Thanks.
I think the burden of proof should be to prove he’s cheating, not to prove he’s not, Sen. Honestly I don’t think it’s cheating if it’s not for league anyways. I don’t think this guy was a league player ever, so it doesn’t even matter much. It doesn’t feel right to slander him anyways because he’s not around, I shouldn’t have opened my mouth up in the first place. Going to depart this thread.
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But the real questions are - why you guys are so sure he's not cheating and can you prove it? Thanks.
Back in the day, I personally played hundreds of games with him, even had his number on WhatsApp. I recall he only used two space keys for roping (which is something Sbaffo also admit doing openly, so I don't think it can be considered cheating). e3gy even sent me a video of him roping with two space keys in the past, if I remember correctly, don't have the vid anymore unfortunately.
The wack roping Walrus talking about might be a specific, popular wormkit module back in 3.6.31.0 days. It was like a turbo key for space. Tbh, even I had that module, and most people used that to f@#! around on funner games, it was never useful for competitive roping, or even freestyling for most use cases. It wasn't something that could give you an unfair advantage. To my knowledge, the module got discountinued 3.7 and onwards anyways.
I think I only got bothered by the term "cheat", since cheating implies using illegal ways to win and: 1) Dude never played competitively. 2) He strictly sticked to warmers/freestyling, and you know, you can't really "win" a warmer.
Although, it's a known fact that freestylers use scripts and don't even try to hide it. Can't respect the rope skill they show, but I personally respect the honesty behind it. Most of them admitted using forbidden macro to rope the way they rope, after I asked.
It's totally fine to not like or respect those ropers, and the method they use. Definitely no hard feelings about that, yeah. I also prefer more organic roping.
It doesn’t feel right to slander him anyways because he’s not around
I agree. Even if he still had other, "cheat-y" modules, it doesn't matter. At least not anymore.
It was nice to reminisce about him. :) Looks like he's doing well, and is playing PUBG these days instead of WA.
Edit: I remembered the name of the module, it was called wkAutoKeys. For example, if you set the Z key as Space in that module, you would spam Space at the speed of light when you hold down Z, but it was uncontrollable af ;D
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Just found one of the old replays of me f@#!ing around with the boys using wkAutoKeys (this was before I started playing competitively, btw). Just check the first turn, I perform a secret trick called "Fire Scrolls" ;D
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Just found one of the old replays of me f@#!ing around with the boys using wkAutoKeys (this was before I started playing competitively, btw). Just check the first turn, I perform a secret trick called "Fire Scrolls" ;D
yeah this is specifically what i was talking about, way too fast taps and unnatural rope behavior, it was probably this wkautokeys thing. Interesting parachute macro, never seen that before! Looks wild.
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I don't consider using 2 spacebars cheating, it's just less impressive in my opinion.
A person who can do the same thing or better with 1 spacebar, is definitely better in my opinion.
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Triad and flash - I don't have proof. Although, it's a known fact that freestylers use scripts and don't even try to hide it. Can't respect the rope skill they show, but I personally respect the honesty behind it. Most of them admitted using forbidden macro to rope the way they rope, after I asked.
Can you explain in detail, which macro / script is forbidden? I'm kinda new on tus, you know. I have seen some people using something that helps them to make their rope unnaturally super-fast. I'm not blind and I see that this is cheating, but I would like to know more on this issue.
I think the burden of proof should be to prove he’s cheating, not to prove he’s not, Sen. It doesn’t feel right to slander him anyways because he’s not around, I shouldn’t have opened my mouth up in the first place. Going to depart this thread.
Right words, man.
I recall he only used two space keys for roping (which is something Sbaffo also admit doing openly, so I don't think it can be considered cheating).
There's a delicate point: it's impossible to use two space keys without a script / macros AFAIK. I mean, of course you can set 2 spaces, but then you gonna get some troubles with roping. I've tried this many times via wkremapkeys and even ahk. I've tried this on several keyboards. In both cases I noticed some missing clicks. As a result I was falling so often for no reason, as if the second button just didn't work properly when pressed. I suppose that sometimes I could press the one of two keys out of timing, because I'm not so skilled fingerroller. But I've never reached such extreme tapping speed. It cannot be faster than the game allows, even with 2 keys. Therefore I conclude that unnatural fast tapping is some kind of cheat, maybe a special script, macro or speedhack. If anyone knows more about this, please answer, it’s interesting.
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There's a delicate point: it's impossible to use two space keys without a script / macros AFAIK. I mean, of course you can set 2 spaces, but then you gonna get some troubles with roping.
Wrong, you can do it easily with 1 spacebar with this keyboard:
If you don't want to watch a full video like that, then when you are free I can show you live on stream how you can fingerroll EASY with no prior experience thanks to rapid trigger and customizable actuation points.
44:20 That's when I start doing the actuation point and rapid trigger stuff.
Of course it looks silly at first... But, when I practised for even 5-10 minutes straight I started doing perfect speed scrolls.
In the video I was doing it with 2 buttons actually, but, I found it's actually easier for me using just spacebar with 0.1mm actuation point and 0.1mm rapid trigger.
It's the best keyboard for roping in the world, currently.
BUT!
Because of it's size, it's not the best for most schemes, it's great for racing rope schemes, but if you need to use f keys and number keys together, you'll need to make up your own profile to suit that.
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Wrong, you can do it easily with 1 spacebar with this keyboard:
Hmm, I don't really believe that all persons that I've seen was using exactly this keyboard with rapid trigger. :) What about an other keyboards? And I wouldn't call it as unnatural fast tapping. Although it looks interesting, maybe I'll watch the whole video later.
In the video I was doing it with 2 buttons actually, but, I found it's actually easier for me using just spacebar with 0.1mm actuation point and 0.1mm rapid trigger.
Yeah, that's it. Using two spaces should not be different in tapping speed compared to one space. I know some people who look suspiciously fast while tapping rather to justify themselves this way: "I use 2 spaces, you don't see the difference between a fingerroll and cheats". Now we can admit that is delirious fairytale for losers. So any unnaturally fast tapping is a cheat / script / macro / speedhack.
EDIT:
Btw, Komodo, what the software was it?
(https://i.imgur.com/1pJjh7x.jpeg)
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Hmm, I don't really believe that all persons that I've seen was using exactly this keyboard with rapid trigger. :) What about an other keyboards? And I wouldn't call it as unnatural fast tapping. Although it looks interesting, maybe I'll watch the whole video later.
I can do the same thing on my Keychron, though, there just isn't as much a window for error, it is definitely possible, I've had a few good scrolls with it, and good shadows etc, but need more practise with either of the keyboards to be confident enough to play in Leagues.
That isn't possible for me anyway for 2 reasons:
I'd need more than the half dozen people who take this league seriously and competitively.
I'm not allowed to create a new account so will never play again in Leagues 1v1 anyway.
Yeah, that's it. Using two spaces should not be different in tapping speed compared to one space. I know some people who look suspiciously fast while tapping rather to justify themselves this way: "I use 2 spaces, you don't see the difference between a fingerroll and cheats". Now we can admit that is delirious fairytale for losers. So any unnaturally fast tapping is a cheat / script / macro / speedhack.
No... I can tap as fast as scripts, without scripts lol.
There are multiple methods to achieve this:
Two handed taps
Fingerrolling
Mouse wheel set as spacebar
Or, someone who is stupidly fast(this is the most rare, and don't believe there is anyone who can do it with 1 finger on 1 spacebar.
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No... I can tap as fast as scripts, without scripts lol.
There are multiple methods to achieve this:
Two handed taps
Fingerrolling
Mouse wheel set as spacebar
You can't do this with wkremap, because this module strictly blocks pressing the second spacebar key. I've tried this many times. I can also press keys quickly, and yeah, with both hands as well. :D But no matter how fast I pressed the keys, I couldn't achieve faster tapping than with a single spacebar. So are you gonna use the firm software for this, right?
P. S. Please answer the question in the previous post about software under "EDIT" mark.
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You can't do this with wkremap, because this module strictly blocks pressing the second spacebar key. I've tried this many times. I can also press keys quickly, and yeah, with both hands as well. :D But no matter how fast I pressed the keys, I couldn't achieve faster tapping than with a single spacebar. So are you gonna use the firm software for this, right?
Oh, I need to be sure what you are talking about...
There was a 3rd party program, which enabled you to fire rope again even if the spacebar was already activated, which is why the 2 spacebar method became popular in the first place.
There was also something I heard about, if someone can clarify this... A script that you can press spacebar even before the rope has connected properly.
Those 2 things, are the cheats/scripts that manipulate the game engine and make things possible that shouldn't be possible.
The rest, are things you can actually do just by being good physically in various ways.
What I meant is, I can tap as fast as macros that just spam spacebar, in various ways, each method has it's pros and cons though.
Well, it's not AS fast with raw speed, but, it's as fast due to the game engine and limits, if you know what I mean?
You can tap 10 times but the game will pickup maybe 6 of those taps because the delay between connections.
So you don't need to tap as fast as a macro spam, to tap as fast as a macro spam, to be as fast as a macro spam, you understand?
P. S. Please answer the question in the previous post about software under "EDIT" mark.
That software is NohBoard, it's a program that enables you to show your key display/input as an overlay on your stream so players can see which buttons you press and the timing etc.
You can get it here:
https://obsproject.com/forum/resources/nohboard.44/
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There was a 3rd party program, which enabled you to fire rope again even if the spacebar was already activated, which is why the 2 spacebar method became popular in the first place.
There was also something I heard about, if someone can clarify this... A script that you can press spacebar even before the rope has connected properly.
Those 2 things, are the cheats/scripts that manipulate the game engine and make things possible that shouldn't be possible.
The rest, are things you can actually do just by being good physically in various ways.
That's what I'm talking about too. Thanks for clarifying. By the way, what was the name of that program / script?
Well, it's not AS fast with raw speed, but, it's as fast due to the game engine and limits, if you know what I mean?
You can tap 10 times but the game will pickup maybe 6 of those taps because the delay between connections.
True. When I tried to tell those people with suspicious fast taps something like that, they told me that I was lying and the WA has no delay between taps. Now we know that were a lies and pathetic excuses.
That software is NohBoard, it's a program that enables you to show your key display/input as an overlay on your stream so players can see which buttons you press and the timing etc.
Cool, thanks. It's useful thing for streaming WA.
EDIT: Btw I asked about firm software for one reason. I suspect that many of these programs can also bypass the limitations of the WA engine. Therefore comparing these programs with wkremapkeys is pointless.
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I cannot remember the name of it, sorry! Pretty sure others will though.
I've been accused of cheating hundreds of times over the years, most people who are really good get accused of cheating from people who aren't good enough to understand how good a person can actually be, or something who is just paranoid and untrustworthy.
I've also accused other people of cheating myself, but always give people the chance to prove themselves, like Sir-J recently.
Personally speaking it's great being proved wrong when you think someone is cheating because that your eyes and it's inspiring!
Now that I am older, a bit wiser and have spent a bit of time looking at various roping techniques... I've literally found multiple ways to get godlike roping skills with very little effort.
Hell, in warmers as soon as you have a bit of momentum you can simply hold UP+LEFT or UP+RIGHT and just tap at the right times to look stupidly good... Though, you still need to have good timing and a sense of creativity to still make it look good!
wkRemapKeys is the very reason I started roping again. To finally have an internal key remapper for Worms Armageddon, a feature which most video games have as standard!
I don't think using multiple spacebars is cheating, though I do find it a bit less impressive.
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This post is conjecture.
Back in early 2000 to mid 2000s when people were younger, it was more common to encounter people with fast and dare i to say unnatural fast taps? At the time I always wondered how it was possible but I figured with time and practice that I could become just as good. Of course back then I could achieve somewhat close to such taps but not consistently and during long duration. My taps were more prominent while I played warmer.
Nowadays you do not see players of such caliber quite as often. There are only a handful of people who I can count on one hand who has super fast taps and can keep that up consistently. One of these people have openly admitted that they rely on ''specific tool' to rope better because their ''hand'' or whatever can't keep up. At least that's how I understood it at the time. Then there are other people with fast taps that can be extremely toxic, or have accused me to have used cheats. The only thing I have is wkRemapKeys, CTRL+Left as Spacebar, and bought peripherals without modification.
While I can personally achieve crazy fast scrolls when I am warmed up and have a good rope day, I realize I cannot become what these people of the past was. So with everything said, this makes me question the legality of certain people of the past.
But I will say this and it might sound contradictory to everything I said: If you have practiced to use 2 or more spaces to rope, or sit crosshanded. Then that's worthy of praise alone, provided if you can rope consistently. Because THAT is difficult, and not easy to learn. Of course, if there are other modifications, and third parties tools applied, then that's fraud. I have easily beaten people with super fast taps in BIG RR because they had no control.
Ultimately, I think that if people want to cheat, they should do so offline. If they really want to go online and use cheats, they should be open about it that the people are aware of it.
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wkRemapKeys is the very reason I started roping again. To finally have an internal key remapper for Worms Armageddon, a feature which most video games have as standard!
You haven't used wkremapkeys there. You was using the firm software (wootility) all the time in this video. As I said, I suspect that many of these firm programs can manipulate the game engine. At least because you can create macros there, and that's what you did later. You've created a several macros, based on rapid trigger technology, and your taps became ~2 times faster. You couldn't reach that fast tapping on the default settings. Therefore I think that using this rapid trigger based macros (and macros at all) is tantamount to cheating.
This keyboard is quite rare and expensive. I don't really think that every player with unnatural fast taps uses this keyboard.
There are only a handful of people who I can count on one hand who has super fast taps and can keep that up consistently. One of these people have openly admitted that they rely on ''specific tool' to rope better because their ''hand'' or whatever can't keep up. At least that's how I understood it at the time. Then there are other people with fast taps that can be extremely toxic, or have accused me to have used cheats.
I wasn't surprised when I read about a "specific tool". Briefly, these "tools" are:
1. Broken wormkit modules like wkautokeys. Perhaps someone have managed to get it work on 3.8.1.
2. Special AHK-scripts that can manipulate the game engine. This doesn't apply to simple AHK-scripts. A normal remap via AHK works fine and honestly, as well as wkremapkeys.
3. Macros written via firm tools of certain keyboards or another 3rd party tools.
4. Constipated Silkworm. I haven't tested it, because I even couldn't run it on Windows 11, but probably someone have managed to get it work on modern systems.
this old program maybe? https://worms2d.info/Constipated_Silkworm
5. Speedhacks. I've never tried it, I guess it can only works offline (usable for RR and TTRR challenges for example).
This is all the information I have managed to find and summarize. Btw I've just googled a very interesting post:
https://www.elitepvpers.com/forum/coders-trading/4275662-looking-coder-decent-payment-who-can-work-worms-armageddon.html (https://www.elitepvpers.com/forum/coders-trading/4275662-looking-coder-decent-payment-who-can-work-worms-armageddon.html)
(https://i.imgur.com/NcC7Hhg.png)
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You haven't used wkremapkeys there. You was using the firm software (wootility) all the time in this video. As I said, I suspect that many of these firm programs can manipulate the game engine. At least because you can create macros there, and that's what you did later. You've created a several macros, based on rapid trigger technology, and your taps became ~2 times faster. You couldn't reach that fast tapping on the default settings. Therefore I think that using this rapid trigger based macros (and macros at all) is tantamount to cheating.
This keyboard is quite rare and expensive. I don't really think that every player with unnatural fast taps uses this keyboard.
I did use wkRemapKeys there, but part of the point of that review is to show the keyboards capabilities.
I use WASD for roping, and it doesn't matter if I use wkRemapKeys or do it with the Wootility software, the end result is the same.
Also, what you do with this keyboard is NOT macros, it does not fall under the description of what a macro is because of how it actually works.
None of it is cheating and I'll explain why.
Actuation point is something you can mod with any keyboard by putting o-rings or paper etc underneath the key so that the actuation point is shorter meaning you can twitch faster.
That's what Anubis done back in the day, that's what Mablak does as well puts little paper balls under his keycaps.
The rapid trigger doesn't make your taps faster, it makes the window of error larger. This works in harmony with a low actuation point.
I explained it in the video if you want to watch the whole video.
The other thing, which you call "macros" which are not actually macros is called "Dynamic Keystroke".
On normal keyboards, you press a key and it's either 100% on or 100% off, activated by the actuation point, then deactivated once it passes a certain threshold.
When you activate a macro, it does multiple things with 1 signal.
This Wooting keyboard has magnetic hall effect switches, which means you can go from 1% to 100% think of it as an Xbox or Playstation controller, with the back triggers acting like a gas/brake pedal on a vehicle.
The harder you press down, the stronger the force in response.
With Dynamic Keystroke, you can setup up to 4 different pressure points, so for example:
1% down = X
25% down = X
75% down = X
25% up = X
If you do not press all the way down, you will not activate all the keystrokes.
It is not a macro, but it is capable of doing things that a macro can do without doing it the way that a macro does it.
Edit - For example, in Roper, you can set up 1 key with dynamic keystrokes so you can do multiple things together.
For example, Instead of having to reach around to select a weapon then enter to drop it, you can set it up to select mine and drop it immediately with 1 button, using dynamic keystroke.
Yes, this keyboard is OP at a top tier level, and yes, it would give players good enough a useful advantage but no, it is not technically cheating, unless someone makes up new rules specifically banning this, but either way, you cannot detect it using normal methods that finds macros, because it's not macros lol.
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I did use wkRemapKeys there, but part of the point of that review is to show the keyboards capabilities.
Where? I've watched almost full video and didn't see this.
I use WASD for roping, and it doesn't matter if I use wkRemapKeys or do it with the Wootility software, the end result is the same.
WASD doesn't matter. I didn't talk about WASD at all. In this discussion the only space keys does matter in the context of unnatural fast tapping.
Actuation point is something you can mod with any keyboard by putting o-rings or paper etc underneath the key so that the actuation point is shorter meaning you can twitch faster.
That's what Anubis done back in the day, that's what Mablak does as well puts little paper balls under his keycaps.
Actuation point on normal keyboards doesn't make as much sense as it does on keyboards with rapid trigger. I have some O-rings and I've tried it on my mechanical keyboard. I barely felt any difference. The only noise from the keys has decreased a little, but even then it felt more like a placebo. But I couldn’t get used to this actuation point of the red switches and I have switched back to my old membrane keyboard.
The rapid trigger doesn't make your taps faster, it makes the window of error larger. This works in harmony with a low actuation point.
Really? Was it true even when you created a macro for 2 actuation points for the one key? In fact, you put 2 spacebar activations on the one button.
The other thing, which you call "macros" which are not actually macros is called "Dynamic Keystroke".
I don't want to go deep into theory. Who cares how it's called if the result is almost the same? Anyway these macros (or not macros, who cares?) gives big advantage over an other players who does not use it.
When you activate a macro, it does multiple things with 1 signal.
Yes. And you have set 2 actions to one key by using different trigger points. It's almost the same as a macro, but much more advanced. If we call a macro is a cheat, then why is an "advanced" macro not a cheat?
It is not a macro, but it is capable of doing things that a macro can do without doing it the way that a macro does it.
True.
For example, in Roper, you can set up 1 key with dynamic keystrokes so you can do multiple things together.
I believe that set up multiple actions to one key is cheating, as I said before.
Yes, this keyboard is OP at a top tier level, and yes, it would give players good enough a useful advantage but no, it is not technically cheating, unless someone makes up new rules specifically banning this, but either way, you cannot detect it using normal methods that finds macros, because it's not macros lol.
I'm not going to argue, my point of view is unbreakable there. I also understood your point. We still won’t prove anything to each other anymore lol. :D Thank you at least for your honesty.
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Where? I've watched almost full video and didn't see this.
You can see in the video that I am using WASD for roping, the wooting keyboard doesn't even have arrows lol!
I have wkRemapKeys activated at ALL times, check this video at the given timestamp to see my exact setup:
If it doesn't load at the right point, then skip to 28:48 to watch the 5 minute wkRemapKeys tutorial.
WASD doesn't matter. I didn't talk about WASD at all. In this discussion the only space keys does matter in the context of unnatural fast tapping.
Yes, WASD does matter, at least for me, if it does not matter for you, then this discussion has no point lol.
I cannot tap as fast/efficient with my left hand as I can with my right, that's why after 20 years of roping "normal" I switch to what I call "inverted" roping.
Normal = Right hand on arrows, left hand on spacebar.
Inverted = Left hand on WASD for arrows, right hand on spacebar.
Actuation point on normal keyboards doesn't make as much sense as it does on keyboards with rapid trigger. I have some O-rings and I've tried it on my mechanical keyboard. I barely felt any difference. The only the noise from the keys has decreased a little, but even then it felt more like a placebo. But I couldn’t get used to this actuation point of the red switches and I have switched back to my old membrane keyboard.
Well, yes it does... The actuation point is the distance at which the key is activated on the way down.
Rapid trigger isn't a macro, rapid trigger is basically an inverted actuation point, meaning at which point on the way UP(while releasing the button you have pressed) that the signal deactivates.
What rapid trigger in combination with a low actuation point is it makes the off signal more dynamic and flexible so it doesn't matter how far down you push, the signal goes OFF as soon as you lift your finger up as low as 0.1mm.
Do you understand better now?
Really? Was it true even when you created a macro for 2 actuation points for the one key? In fact, you put 2 spacebar activations on the one button.
Again, it is NOT a macro, so please stop calling it a macro. If we were talking about macros, I would use the word macro.
If you don't like it, or you think it's cheating, or whatever, that's fine lol, but it is NOT, I repeat NOT a macro!
It will not execute 2 different actions if you do not press it all the way down, or whatever you set it to.
Another way to think of it as putting a key into a keyhole to unlock a lock:
(https://i.imgur.com/4ClKJ2V.png)
If you do not push the key all the way in, it will not activate all the notches.
I don't want to go deep into theory. Who cares how it's called if the result is almost the same? Anyway these macros (or not macros, who cares?) gives an advantage over other players who does not use it.
Yes, it does give an advantage, for those good enough to take advantage of it.
This is not a secret, it's the entire point of the review, to show everyone the technology that is available.
Also, about giving an advantage over other players...
Why is that a problem?
Forget about this Wooting keyboard for a moment, and let's just use my Logitech k740 or Corsair K65 Vengeance, which are normal keyboards which don't have any software to macro etc.
Isn't it already an advantage that I have a better CPU/GPU/Keyboard/Monitor/Gaming Chair/Internet connection than 90% of people who have ever played Worms Armageddon?
Isn't it an advantage that I've been playing this game for over 24 years and have 50k+ hours of experience with this game?
It's not illegal to own more powerful equipment, or play on different resolutions etc.
This keyboard is available for anyone who can afford it, the technology available in this keyboard is going to be the industry standard soon.
So rather than labelling it cheating(which it literally isn't anyway lol), it's better to embrace it and get yourself better educated with it, and probably use it yourself, if you want to compete at the highest level of the game.
Yes. And you have set 2 actions to one key by using different trigger points. It's almost the same as a macro, but much more advanced. If we call a macro is a cheat, then why is an "advanced" macro not a cheat?
It's not an advanced macro... LOL stop using the word "macro" and call it by it's official term please, it's called "Dynamic Keystroke", not macro.
As far as I know, it's easy for someone like Deadcode/MonkeyIsland to detect macros.
It's impossible to detect dynamic keystroke, as far as I know.
I believe that set up multiple actions to one key is cheating, as I said before.
There is no other way to say this except straight to the point.
It doesn't matter if you think it's cheating, it's literally NOT cheating unless the owner of this League, or the developers of Worms Armageddon label it as cheating.
You are neither, so you don't get to decide.
Anything you do within the rulebook, is perfectly legal and quite frankly, who cares if it upsets other people, they can use the same technology if they want.
I'm not going to argue, my point of view is unbreakable there. I also understood your point. We still won’t prove anything to each other anymore lol. :D Thank you at least for your honesty.
Well, it doesn't matter to me if you understand the truth or not, my entire purpose is just to keep the entire community up to date with current technology that can improve almost anybodies gameplay and skills.
Whether they understand it and believe it or not, that's up to them lol, I've done my job! :)
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Stop starting every sentence with a new paragraph. You're trying to overwhelm me with a wall of text again. Don't you know how to divide paragraphs correctly?
Yes, WASD does matter, at least for me, if it does not matter for you, then this discussion has no point lol.
Agreed, this discussion has no point, because initially we were talking only about the space keys in context of super fast tapping, the rest is demagoguery.
Do you understand better now?
I understood it perfectly and immidiately. I said that I don’t want to go deep into the theory, so I’m intentionally simplifying it a little, including for those people who may read these posts later.
Again, it is NOT a macro, so please stop calling it a macro. If we were talking about macros, I would use the word macro.
If you don't like it, or you think it's cheating, or whatever, that's fine lol, but it is NOT, I repeat NOT a macro!
This terminology is absolutely not important for explaining my point of view, so I don’t care. As I said, I'm simplifying it a bit. The much more important thing that you said:
it is capable of doing things that a macro can do without doing it the way that a macro does it.
It will not execute 2 different actions if you do not press it all the way down, or whatever you set it to.
But it will execute 2 different actions if you press it all the way down. :)
Yes, it does give an advantage, for those good enough to take advantage of it.
In other words, it does give an advantage for all more or less experienced WA players. :D
Also, about giving an advantage over other players...
Why is that a problem?
Isn't it already an advantage that I have a better CPU/GPU/Keyboard/Monitor/Gaming Chair/Internet connection than 90% of people who have ever played Worms Armageddon?
Isn't it an advantage that I've been playing this game for over 24 years and have 50k+ hours of experience with this game?
I could write a lot of things there, but I’ll try briefly, because you always complicate, and then I always have to simplify, in order to bring you back into the mainstream of the dialogue.
Would it be interesting for you to watch a ski race (for example) where one participant has a super-modern skis, and the other guy has old, crooked and rusty ones? It seems the winner is obvious. Ideally, players should compete on equal terms. But no one can prohibit a player from buying anything and upgrading PC. Right? So any peripheral is okay. If you have 24 years of experience, then you're awesome, that's a fair advantage, because it's about skill, perseverance, patience and more, so it's okay as well. But we can prohibit using all kind of macros, as well as setting up 2 actions to one key. It's an unfair advantage. In some cases, it can even manipulate the game engine, allowing you to tap faster than the developers intended. I’m not talking about Wooting and its technologies, I’m talking about macros and scripts that allow you to press one space key and shoot a rope when another space key is already pressed.
It doesn't matter if you think it's cheating, it's literally NOT cheating unless the owner of this League, or the developers of Worms Armageddon label it as cheating.
You are neither, so you don't get to decide.
Ow seriously... I’m just used to live in a democratic society, but it seems like you have an autocracy here, guys. Not only the developers and the owner of the league plays this game. Therefore It does matter and I consider myself in the right to propose some amendments. If you think that only developers has the rights to say their opinions about rules, then I would wish you to play with each other, guys, it would be very exciting. Developer vs the league owner or developer vs another developer. Fun. I'm surprised that this statement was written by a person who declares his goal is building big and healthy community.
By the way, sensei is still silent. He has not explained which macros and scripts are not allowed. Seems like a simple question. Probably you scared him with walls of text haha. :D
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Stop starting every sentence with a new paragraph. You're trying to overwhelm me with a wall of text again. Don't you know how to divide paragraphs correctly?
This isn't a peer reviewed essay, or professional assignment... It's a forum, I'll write however I want, thanks.
I write like this because it's easier for the average person to digest, and even more useful if they want to quote specific parts, or find specific sentences.
Would it be interesting for you to watch a ski race (for example) where one participant has a super-modern skis, and the other guy has old, crooked and rusty ones? It seems the winner is obvious. Ideally, players should compete on equal terms. But no one can prohibit a player from buying anything and upgrading PC. Right? So any peripheral is okay. If you have 24 years of experience, then you're awesome, that's a fair advantage, because it's about skill, perseverance, patience and more, so it's okay as well. But we can prohibit using all kind of macros, as well as setting up 2 actions to one key. It's an unfair advantage. In some cases, it can even manipulate the game engine, allowing you to tap faster than the developers intended. I’m not talking about Wooting and its technologies, I’m talking about macros and scripts that allow you to press one space key and shoot a rope when another space key is already pressed.
Actually, I would be interested in seeing old technology vs new technology in pretty much anything lol. That's a great idea!
That reminds me of these videos about epic hypothetical battles that are on YouTube, like 5,000,000 Aliens, Predators and Space Troopers against humanity!
Anyway, sure, you can prohibit macros, and you can detect this with competence.
You cannot prohibit Dynamic Keystroke though in a way that it's even detectable, and if there isn't a rule that says it's illegal, then that's your problem for being annoyed about it and not embracing it. It's definitely not my problem.
Part of the entire purpose of competition is to take things to the next level, and most people are always trying to find loopholes and techniques that give them an advantage or an edge against other people.
And most of the time, rules are only created AFTER someone found something that gives too much of an advantage and it's possible to prevent it.
I am doing my part, to show people what's possible and they can make their own decisions.
Ow seriously... I’m just used to live in a democratic society, but it seems like you have an autocracy here, guys. Not only the developers and the owner of the league plays this game. Therefore It does matter and I consider myself in the right to propose some amendments. If you think that only developers has the rights to say their opinions about rules, then I would wish you to play with each other, guys, it would be very exciting. Developer vs the league owner or developer vs another developer. Fun. I'm surprised that this statement was written by a person who declares his goal is building big and healthy community.
You've taken this completely the wrong way, and it's probably my fault for wording it so bluntly...
So let me rephrase it:
You, and anyone else, are all free to make any and as many suggestions as you want to help shape this League, website and community in general.
However, MonkeyIsland, and MonkeyIsland ALONE makes the final decision about everything, this is not debateable. Those are the terms and conditions when you register to this website.
Every part of this website that I am a moderator for, MonkeyIsland can overturn any decision I make and there's nothing I can do about it other than trust him.
He DOES have my complete faith and trust when it comes to running the most successful and longest running mainstream Worms Armageddon League/Website that has existed in the history of the game.
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!!!