Hey guys
well as you must have seen, PO qualifications changes at the very end of each season. I have people complaining about they try to be in PO and play in entire season, then at the very end, some 'overall-high' player fills up his number of games and kick them out, I'm starting this topic for these people and of course for the sake of our league.
What do you think about the whole thing? Do you think it is cool that PO spots can change until the very last moment? Do you think it is an abuse to the system? If so, do you have any idea to modify the league to prevent this?
my ideias, that i said to you.
1- player/clan cant do half of his/their games in last week of the season (season has 60 days fair u do that in the 60 day and not in last 5). e.g if bOr had 14 games in the first day of last week, its alwread out of getting in PO (14 cose at the moment limit is 30)
2-put a variable date for the end of the season, e.g season end not int 23-2-10 but it may end between 23-2-10 to 28 (3,4 or 5 days we have to think.
3-increase the number of games, singles to 100 (evrything would be bettr then 50) clanners to 70.
its just some ideias that i think would improve PO system.
I think point 3 is the only valid options out of beer's suggestions.
Once point 3 is taken into account and i suggest not 100 games but 70 for singles. 50 for clanners. There wont be inactive people with higher overall rating abusing the system. 70 and 50 are alot of games. It doesnt matter if a clan does all it games in the last 4 days of the season like beer's suggestion. If a clan comes on and plays 20 games in the last 4 days then with a winning ratio of over 50% and a high overall they still deserve that po spot.
Don't have varitation dates this is silly. If anything make the season length the length of the actually 2 months. That will add to less confusing than checking the season information. Some seasons will be 61 days, others maybe 62 day. Everyones last day of that month would be end of seaosn.
I would like to add that beer is a hypocrite. He is complaining about pr playing games at the end of the season. Beer did the exact same thing with his clan mate madden at the end of season 9.
The only thing to make playoffs more representitive of the active players of a seaosn is to increase the limits. But you still need good players in playoffs. However an active clan that is 117 - 100 doesnt deserve playoffs in my view. How about increasing the winning ratio to 60 and see if it makes much of a difference?
Quote from: Chicken23 on February 21, 2010, 10:30 PM
If a clan comes on and plays 20 games in the last 4 days then with a winning ratio of over 50% and a high overall they still deserve that po spot
i guess not, that was CF did, nothing ilegal, but still its unfair since lots of clans made this season active and they did PO in last day.
Quote from: Chicken23 on February 21, 2010, 10:30 PM
Some seasons will be 61 days, others maybe 62 day. Everyones last day of that month would be end of seaosn.
yes it will avoid who did theire games in last hours as PR or CF, u cant be there 24h cose u dunno when it end, this point have to be improved, its just the initial idea.
Quote from: Chicken23 on February 21, 2010, 10:30 PM
I would like to add that beer is a hypocrite. He is complaining about pr playing games at the end of the season. Beer did the exact same thing with his clan mate madden at the end of season 9.
hypocrite? how can u call me that? u see an complain here? did i started this theard?
its true that ideas will may avoid pr or CF actituds in last season, they did good, nothing wrong with it, but still unfair in my eyes.. myself and my clan lost playoffs place in last hours of season, thtat season was 60 days. i was alwys in playoffs aftr 50 games, i've never missed that place, also bOr.. u thinks thats fair? u said it was sad in shoutbox, changed ur mind?
what did I in season 9 with madden at the end? watch (could do that b4 ur post) https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/members-stats/beer/?s=9;l=classic (https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/members-stats/beer/?s=9;l=classic)
as u see at the end there is just a game with Madden that i lost, lmao what u want? still, how can u say that? just watch my stats in season 9.
also i played 141 games in season 9, not 50 in last day.. dnt get ur last point, looks like u wanna start a flame agains me now and right here..
I'm not avoider and im active in these seasons...
edit, ulr missed
ok. my mistake. it wasnt very madden or your clan mate. It was the season when people could reset ratings and you earnt loads of seasonal because you reset your overall rank from star rank back down to bronze of 1000 points. Then you earnt loads of seasonal points to make a playoff spot.
yes i did, i could do that, also u too so u would do that too.
and this season? i couldnt reset my rank and watch my position, so no execuses now.
MI started this thread to improve PO system, if u start saing things that dnt matter in third post, this will be just one more thread with lots of spamm and things that we dnt really need here.
indeed. Thats why the only suggestions to improve po places is increasing the games played to make playoffs. 50 for clanners and 70 for singles would be my suggestions.
pr made 50 games and deserved his place. Hes a better player than you otherwise you would have a higher overall rating, espically as you did 100 plus games. If you won more you would have higher overall rating.
dub-c nearly made playoffs only with 50 games and was active during the last month of the seaosn. it was only because he bumped out benz that benz played more games to give himself a higher seasonal than dubc, who didnt play for the last 5 days of season.
If dub had made the playoffs would the same argument be here? I don't think so. I think tus is working fine. The selection of people in the single playoffs is fair. You just werent good enough beer. You dont see me crying because i didnt make it either. I played over 100 games and was in the top 20, i have a strong overall rank of 16th but i didnt make it either. I need to increase my winning precentage, not drop points in defaults and rope a little better to improve my overall. Just get over yourself and try harder next season.
if pr deserv, why do u think that CF dont? they did 30 games..
i donot choice the players that i play, so maybe with more then 100 players its hard to improve my overall rank that fast, but choicing who we play even in last days isnt that hard.
no i dnt see u crying, also im not crying, i just posted some ideas and u started talking 'bullshit' about me, games that i never played, u played over 100 games so me too, u were top 20? i were all season not less then 10 position. sure ur overall rank is strong? but 25th, mine is 16th.. you can not compare.
chicken, pls u may start watching my profile before saying things like that, my overall, my games that i didnt played with madden, etc.. its sad -.-'
requirements is 50 in season and at least 10 every week
for claners is 30 is season and at least 5 every week
imo its easy and good way...
btw in aditional u can add something like: there is atleast 10 (or 20) players in 'Games Limitation' table...
alll this not solve problem at all but its not so hard for MI imo and its add headake to pr and others...
30 games for an inactive clan is easy over 60 days of season. thats why it should be 50 for clanners.
1. It is 45 days not 60. Remember we changed it at the start of season 10.
2. It wasn't about beer and pr or bOr and CF. xLo and Lukz was another case. benz asked me why he was kicked out from PO last season. So please do not make it personal. None of the players did anything wrong, pr/CF/bOr/xLo ... all did fine. It is just about improving.
3. @error, 10 games per week or so is not a bad idea. But some people enters the league in the middle of it, so won't work actually.
4. TUS had even more games done than previous seasons. I think it is possible to increase limits.
5. Maybe a 'culture' to always watch the standings at the very end of season and try to play games along with the end of the season?
i think a slight adjustment to the games needed is all that is needed. This is a ladder remember and overall points are there for a reason. I dont think pr did anything wrong.
I think people forget the league is a ladder and the importance of overall. I think if the default view of standings was with overall then the newcomers to the site would realise this... then if u wanted to view seasonal you could switch to it like you can do now.
This is a ladder, the league doesnt reset and more focus needs to be drawn to this. People would look at the standings last season and think shaggy was the best player on tus, when infact random00 was.
Increase of matches for sure is a good thing imo. And 50 clanners sounds like a fair number. In a 45 day season its over 1 clanner a day which sounds like a fair and reasonable number 2 manage.
And the system with 4 overall and 4 season "tickets" for PO is fine also. The main thing is people dont understand how this works. How about when u press "standings" u get 2 standings next 2 eachother, 1 for season 1 for overall. And thats in the current season of course. Then people can see that the top 4 in each of those 2 tables are the current qualifiers. Its easy for every1 to understand and its easy 2 see how close/far u are from reaching PO and who can catch u etc. Im aware of the option just pressing "season points" or "overall" points, but many dont know/understand this. Put 2 tables next 2 eachother in the same page, both from the current system, its idiot-proof! :)
Uber we don't have any room for that XD, how wide is your monitor/resolution?
:D i have the highest res on a 17" screen. But i can see ur point. WOuld just be nice 2 see em combined. Dont wanna make more work for u tho MI. Ur doing enough for this page/community as it is. :)
First of all I also like the idea of increasing the limits. I'd prefer Chickens suggest with 50 for clans and 70 for singles.
And I also think that you should somehow see seasonal and overall ratings...
I somehow miss a table where you can see the Overall rating, but just the active players (for example players that did 1 or more games in the current season) with the seasonal stats. I mean the Overall rating is kinda more important than the seasonal rating anyway, because points are calculated just by the overall ratings :O
But I dont have any clue how you could be able to show all this information on 1 basic standings site...
Overall rating and overall points should have nothing to do with the current seasons being played.
Quote from: Dub-c on February 23, 2010, 04:51 PM
Overall rating and overall points should have nothing to do with the current seasons being played.
That's not gonna happen. We have a
rating system, ratings are all about overall stuff. It's what they are for. Or should we just go back to -1/+2 system? ::)
Quote from: Rok on February 23, 2010, 05:22 PM
Quote from: Dub-c on February 23, 2010, 04:51 PM
Overall rating and overall points should have nothing to do with the current seasons being played.
That's not gonna happen. We have a rating system, ratings are all about overall stuff. It's what they are for. Or should we just go back to -1/+2 system? ::)
I love the
rating system, but I dont think an overall rating should have such an effect on a league that it is not a ladder system. Overall points should still be shown, as people can be proud of that, but at the start of each season everyone should be on an equal playing field.
yes i agree, overall rating shouldn't take any decide if u r in po or not.. CF can do 30games 7 days before season ends and get easy into playoffs, come on. let's make it only season points,
the best 4 clans of season gets into PO
Quote from: Crash on February 24, 2010, 10:47 AM
yes i agree, overall rating shouldn't take any decide if u r in po or not.. CF can do 30games 7 days before season ends and get easy into playoffs, come on. let's make it only season points,
the best 4 clans of season gets into PO
Goes for singles aswell.
We've already had long discussions about this. The reason we put top 4 overall players in PO is because they eventually come to a point where's very had for them to quaulify thru season points (now when season points are calculated from overall rating, of course). You for example, Dub-c, are at 3000 rating now, it'll be harder and harder for you to find opponents you could get good points from. Now if we remove overall ratings from the calculation, we degrade it to a cosmetic number used for showing off. We had it like that when TUS was new, then changed it coz it didn't work very well, why change it back now? The I only thing I can agree with is raising the games limit, and even that won't prevent someone playing last few needed in the last hour of the season. The system won't ever be perfect for everybody and in every possible situation, there'll be always a way to exploit it somehow. I guess we should all live with it.
Increasing the number maybe will help. But still it is possible to be in PO in the last days. I remember Unique played about 70 TUS games in 3-4 days. Not for PO though, just addiction.
i remember pr played 50 TUS games in 2-3 days for PO though! fuk that smart stalin :P
Not smart 2 remove overall from PO qualification. Then u will se some serious noob-bashing, cause every player start season with 1k in points. The strenght difference between players and points will be completely removed and u will gain alot from playing weaker players, especially at the start of season..
Edit: and if u still want the overall points 2 count for the points a player gets from a win, players like Random00 will have NO CHANCE at reaching the playoffs at all.. :)
Exactly Uber. But that's not a theory. This happened in TUS in the seasons 2-5. since points gets reset every season, good players won't bother looking for a good match cause ANYONE will give them enough points that they want.
Quote from: Dub-c on February 24, 2010, 11:11 AM
Quote from: Crash on February 24, 2010, 10:47 AM
yes i agree, overall rating shouldn't take any decide if u r in po or not.. CF can do 30games 7 days before season ends and get easy into playoffs, come on. let's make it only season points,
the best 4 clans of season gets into PO
Goes for singles aswell.
Ok, I would have no chance to qualify for playoffs then. Even if I can do something like 100-15.
Last season I had 79-20 and just finished 9th place, this season I will get less points then the previous one probably, so removing overall rating from po qualification is a really good idea, not. -.-
i guess MI started this thread not cose of playoff system (calculation) but cose to improve the end of the season, that we have seen unfair things.
evrything can be improved, thats truth, but for now calculation is fine, maybe overall should be showed relevance, i bet 95% of TUSers do not know about that..
so lets talk about this and not about calcutation of point and season+overall, not in this thread i guess..
looks like evryone is for increase games.. any more ideas ae? i'had some but looks like they are bad, anyway i tried :P
edit, well, I do not know nothing ;s
Random00 they meant, the system calculate your seasonal points when reporting, not overall. (along with removing overall from PO)
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on February 24, 2010, 03:22 PM
Random00 they meant, the system calculate your seasonal points when reporting, not overall. (along with removing overall from PO)
which we already know is very bad.
I say increasing them game limits is fine. 70 and 50.
If someone gets 70 games in a 45 day season even if they did play in the last week of 10 games a day i still think that active enough. They're still taken part in the season and 70 games for a player with a higher overall rating is a risk for them as they may drop alot of points trying to get those 70 games done. Encouraging the higher ranked players to get more games done to make playoffs is good for the league as it makes it possible for lower ranked players to take some points of the top players (if they win of course)
I think with 70 and 50 we'll have a much nicer section of playoff players.
Now if you want a different suggestion. Take 16 players to the playoffs. 10 of them with top overall, 6 of them with top seasonal. This is slightly different to fb. They had 12 overall and 4 seasonal. The seasonal points was just called something different. Like handicap or something. There standings were always viewed on default of overall points because it being a ladder, the seasonal points was the amount of points a player gained which was the handicap thingy. Its the same as here. A lower ranked new player could gain more points than a higher overall and the top 4 players who gained the most points also made the playoffs.
although the playoffs using the high overall ratings more over seasonal is what caused discontent in FB as people got sick of seeing the same players in the playoffs every season after making the minimal amount of games.
So i think an equal divid between the two is best. It keeps the playoffs fresh. Raising the game limit to 70/80 for a season and then seeing how it goes and reasses the situation after the next playoff selection has occured with the new limits would be my suggestion.
Just got some new point regarding Single Playoffs. Its pretty ok in round 1, but I dont like the round 2 pairings, cause usually the top2 overall players meet already in semi-final.
Better would be like this:
Quarterfinals:
Game A: Seasonal #1 - Overall #4
Game B: Seasonal #2 - Overall #3
Game C: Seasonal #3 - Overall #2
Game D: Seasonal #4 - Overall #1
Semis:
Game X: Winner Game A - Winner Game C
Game Y: Winner Game B - Winner Game D
Final:
all the losers in round robin system XDDD
ye, well, final should be clear :d
Still need some feedback for my idea, plus: Overall should become more important in the future.
There will be more and more people who will do good season but have no chance to reach seasonal top4 or overall top4. And in addition they can often even do better seasons then the seasonal top4 without reaching the Playoffs. This would just not be fair. So, there should be a change in the PO qualification system quite soon, next season or the season after imo.
Quote from: Random00 on March 15, 2010, 10:38 PM
Still need some feedback for my idea, plus: Overall should become more important in the future.
There will be more and more people who will do good season but have no chance to reach seasonal top4 or overall top4. And in addition they can often even do better seasons then the seasonal top4 without reaching the Playoffs. This would just not be fair. So, there should be a change in the PO qualification system quite soon, next season or the season after imo.
Overall should become less important. Everyone should be on an equal playing field each season. No advantages to anyone. Thats the only way to see who is playing the best that season.
Well not really Dub, cause points are given from the overall ratings of each player ye? So Random00 with over 6k in overall will get less sesonal points from like 43-7 than a player with low overall gets from a 35-15 f.ex. And if we start 2 count points for win without using the overall points as a factor, then the guy who plays the most games and does the most noob-bashing wins.. In a ladder, overall MUST count, if not the whole ladder system fails..
So why not make the overall ratings a archive thing and and totally disregard it when it comes to playoffs?
Read my last post :)
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on February 24, 2010, 02:08 PMIncreasing the number maybe will help. But still it is possible to be in PO in the last days.
Isn't really easy to find TuS on Wn. Increasing the number of games needed will just make harder to go in PO.
Anyway, if someone succeed in going to PO in the last week of season, just good job to him, because it's really not easy.
You just have to play until the end if you wanna be in PO.
Most of the time, when a player raises to PO, he stops doing TuS. And this is the problem atm.
Quote from: Abnaxus on March 16, 2010, 11:50 AM
Most of the time, when a player raises to PO, he stops doing TuS. And this is the problem atm.
I dunno in what TUS league you play, but you can simply look at the classic league at the moment. There is noone that qualifies for PO at the moment who has just 50 games or an amount very close to 50. And there are also guys with 100 games and more. So I think you're just wrong at this point.
Quote from: Random00 on March 11, 2010, 12:26 AM
Just got some new point regarding Single Playoffs. Its pretty ok in round 1, but I dont like the round 2 pairings, cause usually the top2 overall players meet already in semi-final.
Better would be like this:
Quarterfinals:
Game A: Seasonal #1 - Overall #4
Game B: Seasonal #2 - Overall #3
Game C: Seasonal #3 - Overall #2
Game D: Seasonal #4 - Overall #1
Semis:
Game X: Winner Game A - Winner Game C
Game Y: Winner Game B - Winner Game D
[...]
but what about this? noone referred to it, but I think its really important, that the 2 best players (imo this is usually the top2 in overall standings) already have to fight each other in the semis...
Quote from: Random00 on March 16, 2010, 01:22 PM
Quote from: Abnaxus on March 16, 2010, 11:50 AM
Most of the time, when a player raises to PO, he stops doing TuS. And this is the problem atm.
I dunno in what TUS league you play, but you can simply look at the classic league at the moment. There is noone that qualifies for PO at the moment who has just 50 games or an amount very close to 50. And there are also guys with 100 games and more. So I think you're just wrong at this point.
Before my break it was that, and I thought it was the same with the 3 guys with 60 games.
And if it's not the case, then you shouldn't scare about a guy playing the last week of season.
indeed random00. but i think the top seasonal and top overall should avoid eachother untill the final.
then just read my post chicken.
Its the case there -.-
Quote from: Abnaxus on March 16, 2010, 01:45 PM
Quote from: Random00 on March 16, 2010, 01:22 PM
Quote from: Abnaxus on March 16, 2010, 11:50 AM
Most of the time, when a player raises to PO, he stops doing TuS. And this is the problem atm.
I dunno in what TUS league you play, but you can simply look at the classic league at the moment. There is noone that qualifies for PO at the moment who has just 50 games or an amount very close to 50. And there are also guys with 100 games and more. So I think you're just wrong at this point.
Before my break it was that, and I thought it was the same with the 3 guys with 60 games.
And if it's not the case, then you shouldn't scare about a guy playing the last week of season.
There is a problem with people stopping playing soon as they've reached playoffs. Allais, yanme and random00 all did this once they reached the 50 games. Now they are playing again to get to 70. Same with CF and pp in clanners. I guess theres no rules to prevent it. Its just a shame when these players are active and stop playing. It makes the league less active. Harder to try to win points off the top rated players.
I guess this is a good reason for beer's suggestions of 100 and 80 games. Because the top players would be encouraged to play more tus. Instead of quitting as soon as they met the requirements
But then again, you want the most active and most skilled in playoffs. Not the most skilled, not the most active.
50 - 70 seems like a fair amount. I think it could be raised to 60 - 80.
I think maybe raising the winning percentage to more than 50% would be interesting too.
we are just 3 people and its really hard for me to reach the minimum criteria.
You can just look at my history, I dont stop playing when I have the exact amount of games. I just had other things to do the last days, thats all.
I would have played single tus games anyway this season...
I bet if the playoff clan requirements were 60 or 70 you guys would still make it.
Whats up with you Chicken? Stop that now, u are rly on best way to be the biggest idiot in wormnet, even upper listed than guys like dt etc. I rly dont understand ur statements at all.
CF has only 3 active members, like Random said in his latest post. So we are trying to get the minimum amount of games for PO. And thats hard enough with our current roster. Calm down man.
And notice:
Quality > Quantity
More games to get into PO will destroy the activity at all. Thats my opinion! 50/70 is ok, but not higher.
What about adding a minimum "Winning percentage" (like 60-70%) ?
Then, as SPW said, the quality would really surround quantity.
no need for this abnaxus
this would just encourage clans to aviod playing other good clans. Having 50% and be in top2 in seasonal/overall is hard enough, I dont think a bad clan can make it.
Quote from: SPW on March 30, 2010, 08:38 AM
50/70 is ok, but not higher.
Did you read all my posts? Im trying to show the pros and cons to the games limit which this thread is all about. I also said 50/70 is fair.