The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Leagues => Leagues General => Topic started by: HHC on April 17, 2013, 08:24 PM
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Can this scheme be fixed?
Were leading with 4 worms, of which 2 healthy (frozen) vs 2 worms of which one was skunked as well. And still lost :(
In singles T17 works fairly ok, although you still need luck with the SD weaps. But in clanners it's a different matter.
Basically, this scheme could use a 5-10 min longer round time. Cause you can't rotate between all 4 worms and because people generally take longer turns in clanner games, the time till SD is really short. You only get about 6 turns each until SD sets in. You can do some damage, but by far not enough to decide a game prior to SD.
And since the turns take longer and you can't rotate all 4... you pick up less crates as well. In most cases both clans pick up about 15-18 weaps each. And with the very low probability of SD weaps it's really a matter of pure luck who happens to get that Aquasheep :-[
I've played about 8 clanners this season and I can't remember winning a single one :o
Everytime it dwells down to who gets that special weap in late SD and everytime I get f*cked >:(
- Proposal: increase round time with 8 more minutes.
- Proposal 2: up the SD probability. It sucks to have SD weaps fight, but it's more fair than 1 player getting it all and the other getting absolutely zero. Even if you totally pwn the regular time, you can still get owned in the end just because you didn't get a single SD crate. (which happens a lot).
- Proposal 3: kick the scheme out. Love it maybe more than any other scheme, but in clanners it just sucks ass :(
- Proposal 4: play it on island maps. lal ;D
- Proposal 5: include the old 2 worm switches. That will make attacking a little easier. Even though WS'es piss me off in general..
All that goes for the scheme in clanners. In singles it's right as it is :-[
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i said it many many times , just add 1 HOMING to each inventory !
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That's a good plan Berria. Will fix a lot.
Another proposal: Limit the girders even further in clanners.
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make sd witout water rise maybe,crazy idea,but why not
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lololo rage thread xD
you didnt get owned by sd weaps this game, they just killed worms in open combat, and well u guys didnt care much for collecting crates. cant see any sign of scheme flaw in the game u mentioned. what i really would like to fix would be decreasing chances for cows. those shits come way 2 often, and are damm powerful.
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you didnt get owned by sd weaps this game, they just killed worms in open combat
Yeah.. cause we had to tele over to attack. Exactly BECAUSE we had no sd weaps.
and well u guys didnt care much for collecting crates.
We tried our best to collect them, but we ain't gonna tele in closed off spots that block us for turns to come just to get a 0.05% chance of an SD weap.
cant see any sign of scheme flaw in the game u mentioned.
It's not just this game, it's the whole season.. A guy who can easily get into Team17 TRL playoffs, and even gets voted best T17 player in the awards fails to win more than 10% of the games in clanners... it makes you think.
what i really would like to fix would be decreasing chances for cows. those shits come way 2 often, and are damm powerful.
They are common indeed. But without them you can do even less dmg :(
Uzurpator has a point IMO. This scheme depends way too heavily on 3 or 4 SD turns. It's the normal game time in which you gotta strike if you want to gain the upperhand in the SD phase.
In clanners that normal game time is too short and has but a negligable effect on the outcome of the entire game. It seems like the best strategy to follow is to just tele your worm to the latest crate that fell and f@#! everything else.
That's just noob shit any guy can do. Same goes for the SD play really.
Pretty sure other pro Team17 players, like MI, will feel the same. That 2vs2 Team17 is totally different from 1vs1.. that all advanced strategies tend to fail there and that in the end it just comes down to being lucky enough to have lady Fortune on your side.
I like to give Uzur's idea a try. SD without water rise. Because yeah, without a fix 2vs2 team17 is kinda bogus :(
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lol any time anyone wants to improve a scheme, peja is the first one there to reject it :D
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lolo right, i never supported your w2 roper, i never supported ropeknocking in elite and t17. imo if you wanna improve t17 talk with van, he already is/was working on it.
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Maybe try to go wxw way, and add health crates ?? xD
If seriously, i remember like i played t17 with 2 draws... damn it, so homing is good idea + delete some shit wpns like mole(i really didnt see the good application of this) or change power of that.
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Well I never liked Team17 clanners because you don't have control over your 4 worms and this changes a lot.
I watched the game, and Aef did major mistakes. 4 worms and you are trapped in 1/3 map while 2 other worms are ruling 2/3 map. Then you are teleporting your worms one by one into the 2/3 field without having any backup by your other worms, wth? making a steak sandwich for them?
Adding one homing missile doesn't solve much and it will change game strategy.
"No SD time" won't be Team17 anymore.
Increasing round time, this could work but 8 mins? That seems a lot.
How about decreasing water rise level in clanners?
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the reason this game was lost was merely because of poor planning/strategy.. there were tons of mistakes made and very few crates grabbed on your part. thats what cost you the game.
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Can this scheme be fixed?
Were leading with 4 worms, of which 2 healthy (frozen) vs 2 worms of which one was skunked as well. And still lost :(
I've been saying this for like forever.
And now that you lose a game you're inclined to agree.
hahaahaahahaahhahh
jajaaj
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the reason this game was lost was merely because of poor planning/strategy.. there were tons of mistakes made and very few crates grabbed on your part. thats what cost you the game.
I beg to differ. I think we played it well considering the circumstances. We did major damage in regular time, but had to make offensive moves in SD which didn't work out too well, but did we have a choice there? By the time you had 1 or 2 girders left the water was already near the top. Torching through the land woulda taken too long, so we tele'd in and hoped for my frozen worm's HP and our worm switch to still enable us to take you guys out. It was either that or settle for a possible draw IMO.
It is true we didnt get too many crates, but was it our fault? The turns that we lost that big space up are the turns we used to kill 2 worms (and almost killed more if that cow attack on the bottom had been a little bit more lucky). Once SD hit (after just a few turns) it was too late to 'conquer' that zone and we had to settle for the right. At that point you can choose between collecting 4 or 5 crates and hoping there's an SD in it (which isnt likely, certainly not 2) or go out and attack. We did the latter and it costs us.
I'd like to hear what you would have done different in the few turns we had. I really don't think we had many other options than the ones we made.
It's not this 1 game as I mentioned. It's the whole season this shit is going on. And the seasons before that as well.
@ropa: oh yeah sure, I was just nice enough to copy your posts.. my god.
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@ropa: oh yeah sure, I was just nice enough to copy your posts.. my god.
Come on now, I'm celebrating we agree on something at least partially.
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T17 already takes a long time, but make it longer changing SD? Draws would be even more unbearable. Maybe the more turns you're wanting are obtainable through shorter turn time.
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T17 already takes a long time, but make it longer changing SD? Draws would be even more unbearable.
Longer round time stands a chance of reducing the number of draws and making the early and mid game more relevant to the outcome of matches. You know, fix the actual problems with the way the scheme is played currently. Average round length in and off itself just isn't one of them, not compared to other league schemes.
By no means do I think nearly doubling round time for clanners only is an elegant enough solution, but somewhere between 12 and 14 minutes instead of the current 10 (in my scheme anyway, I'm not sure what TUS uses) is something I've considered before and couldn't spot any immediate problems apart from players simply having to get used to it. Certainly though I think the resulting new scheme should be made to work unchanged for both singles and clanners, as well as not drastically alter the unique strategy of the scheme (as some other proposals here would).
I'm also yet to figure out why crate probability is apparently all over the place in the T17 schemes used on TUS today. Has anyone ever explained why the old way of doing it, with the same probability for every weapon (except cows) was flawed? I guess that's a somewhat separate discussion, though.
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lolo right, i never supported your w2 roper, i never supported ropeknocking in elite and t17. imo if you wanna improve t17 talk with van, he already is/was working on it.
its not the w2roper, or anything else im referring to, it just seems like you knock any attempt for change... maybe your the type of person that just does not like change, or maybe you really do believe that all these schemes are the best they can possibly be....
but its a bit frustrating when people dont even give things a chance to find out.
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jesus, another drama topic because "omg, I have lost a game, and I'm that pro, I couldn't lose it!"
We used to play this scheme for few years now, and you still didn't learn tactic in t17 I see. There are not needed any changes, and we should back to infinite girders too imo.
If you don't like to have 4 worms while SD, you should attack as many times as possible. And if you had 4 worms while SD and you still lose it's only your problem. If you played well, your opponent must have 4 good SD weapons and it really doesn't happen, so you should draw it at least.
So go back and try your better next time, because you wouldn't complain if it was a won game.
ye, I'm waiting for smites now, only because hhc has better reputation than me. But I don't care, hope that few people will understand me, and I'm not afraid about telling my own minds.
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Maciej, HHC is one of the most skilled & experienced Team17 players of all time... Team17 has been debated for years and years, and many still recognise it could do with improvement, more so, every scheme is kinda in the same boat...
Why are people saying, along the lines of "he lost a game, and now he wants change" HHC has probably won thousands of Team17 as well as lost at least many hundreds, I wouldn't be surprised if he's played 10,000+ Team17 games & many different leagues with different Team17 schemes since he started playing worms do you really think he made this decision because of 1 game, really LOL?!
You should not get smited, you haven't said anything insulting, you spoke your mind and that is fine, but give HHC a chance, cmon, it's HereHeComes for crying out loud !
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we should back to infinite girders too imo.
Let's add infinite rope too :< .
Imo we should decrease water level rising in sd to make it more important part of round .
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Maciej, HHC is one of the most skilled & experienced Team17 players of all time... Team17 has been debated for years and years, and many still recognise it could do with improvement, more so, every scheme is kinda in the same boat...
Why are people saying, along the lines of "he lost a game, and now he wants change" HHC has probably won thousands of Team17 as well as lost at least many hundreds, I wouldn't be surprised if he's played 10,000+ Team17 games & many different leagues with different Team17 schemes since he started playing worms do you really think he made this decision because of 1 game, really LOL?!
You should not get smited, you haven't said anything insulting, you spoke your mind and that is fine, but give HHC a chance, cmon, it's HereHeComes for crying out loud !
most likely because when this idea was presented for the second time in TUS, long ago, HHC was strongly against it.
But now he lost a game and... I'm not drawing any connections
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somtimes it takes losing to realize the scheme is jacked...
look at hyst, the only people who think its a good scheme are the ones who win...
they thought "hmmm ill practice this jacked up kill your own worm to win scheme and beat even pros some day"
now they dont want to get rid of the damn scheme...
we need to figure out how to make them lose ;D
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most likely because when this idea was presented for the second time in TUS, long ago, HHC was strongly against it.
But now he lost a game and... I'm not drawing any connections
Which idea are we talking about? There's a dozen mentioned in this thread.
If it were true, which I kinda doubt, what would be the problem anyway? That I changed my opinion from long ago to a new one?
I'm not a prophet lol.
edit: counted turns in yesterday's T17 against TdC.
10 turns till the counter hit 0. That's 5 turns for each player.
That's 10 crates per clan. Mmh!
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dont pay any attention to ropa, hhc...
he just likes to be a "i told you so" type of guy, the type no one likes. ;)
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dont pay any attention to ropa, hhc...
he just likes to be a "i told you so" type of guy, the type no one likes. ;)
T17 is the most useless scheme for league ever created ... I know, maybe it has years being played .... but c'mon, it's a game that takes at least 20+ min per game, and when u least expect it, yes, it finished with a draw, lets repeat another 20+ min and hope it doesn't finish with a draw again .... and here, is when conflicts arise, cuz it is a tired and bored game so opponents refuse to repeat it once again ... however i will not generalize , there are games that end before SD (i suppose are minimal)
Maybe t17 needs skills , i will not say it is just luck, but c'mon, most of t17 players (im included) try to take cr8s in first turns, (obviously, if u've got a dyna and worm close u hit them...) and then when u've got a ''SD weapon'' lets take a corner side, burn time and go for SD... and well... pray the opponent doesn't force a draw... that's the basic strategy of this game ... as i told in other post , i would like to see a percent of draws in t17, i don't think that's possible but well ... an approximate percentage would be nice ... for me 40% of t17 finishes in draw, and this is a lower number ...
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dont pay any attention to ropa, hhc...
he just likes to be a "i told you so" type of guy, the type no one likes. ;)
T17 is the most useless scheme for league ever created ... I know, maybe it has years being played .... but c'mon, it's a game that takes at least 20+ min per game, and when u least expect it, yes, it finished with a draw, lets repeat another 20+ min and hope it doesn't finish with a draw again .... and here, is when conflicts arise, cuz it is a tired and bored game so opponents refuse to repeat it once again ... however i will not generalize , there are games that end before SD (i suppose are minimal)
Maybe t17 needs skills , i will not say it is just luck, but c'mon, most of t17 players (im included) try to take cr8s in first turns, (obviously, if u've got a dyna and worm close u hit them...) and then when u've got a ''SD weapon'' lets take a corner side, burn time and go for SD... and well... pray the opponent doesn't force a draw... that's the basic strategy of this game ... as i told in other post , i would like to see a percent of draws in t17, i don't think that's possible but well ... an approximate percentage would be nice ... for me 40% of t17 finishes in draw, and this is a lower number ...
+1