The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Leagues => Leagues Playoffs => Topic started by: TheKomodo on July 05, 2010, 06:47 AM
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Seriously right, not trying to cause trouble here but this is just ridiculous, look at season 13 standings for clanners
CKC played more and won more than any other clan, we have a higher win % than every clan except CF and doH (you guys need to start playing more anyway).
We beat every clan more than they beat us (except CF I think cuz well, they never play us really, only when it suits them)
Yet we still didn't make playoffs...
This is pretty crap lol...
And no, i'm not just mad because we didn't make playoffs, i'm just a bit sceptic as to HOW we didn't make playoffs although we had a better season than everyone else...
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TdC and ps collected more points in the season than CKC did, also, the overall points for CKC was not enough to qualify (CF and doH had more).
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TdC and ps collected more points in the season than CKC did
Well duh ! Well done sherlock... *clap*
Did you read my post? lol
We won more games, have a higher win ratio, even though we won more games and beat other clans more, we didn't get in because of this system...
My point is (no offense to other clans here, we are all good clans lol), CKC have played a better season than anyone, we have played more risked more, but fallen short with this points thing.
Nevermind lol, everyone will just bitch at me for being honest anyway lol
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Higher overall's = doH and CF
Higher point at season = ps and TdC.
If CKC caught 2nd place. So you CKC would caught PO's too.
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IMO activity doesn't mean a thing in an ELO-like ladder system.
(https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/graphs/clans/CKC-classic-13-max/)
If you had stopped at that peak, or a bit later, you would've made playoffs easily. You lost too many points afterwards for whatever reasons.. It's not easy to be constantly winning with such a big clan as CKC is - the more different players you have, the harder it is to play perfectly together with every single one of them.
Can't find more reasons now. :P
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that graph shows alot. thats the reason why u didnt reach PO. And as darkz said, its harder to hold a level with more ppl. Thats one reason, why CF are full with a current lineup from 5 ppl.
But tbh, its not easy to get into PO's anyway. Work on ur game, there is still a lot possbile to make u better. PS and TdC made a good season too so its rly ok they reached it. So what about "Congratz" and just psssst. :)
Meanwhile ckc can play the old PO's which still not played.
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his point is not weather or not we have a big clan, or how well any of us played at any particular time.. his point is we had better win ratio then most clans in the playoffs, and were the most active. yet we do not make it to the playoffs.... and darkz, if ur suggesting that at our peak we should have stopped playing clanners? good idea, lets make clan league even more inactive! ;D
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Kinda sucks to have ELO system in Clanners as there's not that much activity anyways...
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(https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/graphs/clans/RS-classic-all-max/)
lol xD
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Okay, then more to the point:
In an ELO system the win/loss ratio isn't as relevant as it seems. Because if you have played 200 games and won 140 of them, which is 70%, it doesn't say the least bit about your rating.
Following the 200 games 70% win example:
Clan A won their first 140 games of the season and lost the last 70. They end up with 1050 points that season.
Clan B lost their first 70 games of the season and won the last 140. They end up with 2200 points that season.
Sure it's an extreme example but I think that's what happened to CKC's rating. You lost more near the end of the season and that's why your rating isn't as high as it could be.
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what dark just wrote plus:
seasonal rating sucks.
All clans playing clanner at the moment already played a decent amount of clanners for tus. Because of this their rating is representative for their skill and the overall rating just shows which clans are the best at the moment. If you just want to see who is the best clan in 1 season I cant imagine any fair system that would actually work (cause 1. you cant set fixed dates so its a big league system like football leagues; 2. an ELO system that resets all rating every season would be a big privilege for clans that start as late as possible in the season when all other good clans already have more points then they do; 3. a simple system like 3 points for a win and -1 for a lose or something similar would just let the most active clans reach POs).
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3. a simple system like 3 points for a win and -1 for a lose or something similar would just let the most active clans reach POs).
If it was like this, you guys would probably play like at least double the amount of games a season, I mean cmon, 61 games?
I know you guys are active, cuz you are all playing singles and other stuff, and because of me working nightshift and slowly changing my hours, i've asked you guys for clanners at literally EVERY hour of a day... And you still said no to me everytime, I have asked you literally close to 100 times in season 13, no offense, but that's pathetic, you could have managed to scratch up ONE game.
I know you played the other guys, and seriously no offense to them, but you know they are not as strong a team without the other players of CKC, all I wanted was a few games with each clans best members, and don't get me wrong, those guys are our best members, but not in that order, like we need 2 of each scheme not 1, and you knew that, all I wanted was a few games with the supposed "best clan on wa" just for the thrill of it, couldn't care if we lost or won, it's just a challenge it's like, I have to do lol, but nah, you guys have to sit back and pick your games carefully, and i'm saying this just because I think you are avoiding sometimes, which you plainly are there is no doubt about it, but, it's just really really boring to play like that, you guys are at the top, you should be defending your honour whenever challenged, not making up excuses not to accept the challenge.
Basically my point would be, if CKC were to pick their games as carefully as you did we would probably have a higher rank than you, but at the cost of actually enjoying ourselfs, this is why it is annoying that you make playoffs for being overall 1st, JUST by playing the smallest amount of games possible, you are cheating the system and you know it.
And most people are thinking it, i'm the only one who will say it, cuz everyone too scared they will get smited or something stupid...
And don't think I hate you guys or anything, I still respect and like every one of you guys individually.
Oh and Rene, I know, but why should we stop enjoying ourselfs just because of that?
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Oh and while i'm at it, Hat's off to cfc, they have played almost as much as ckc and still in top 5 :D well done cfc!!!
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3. a simple system like 3 points for a win and -1 for a lose or something similar would just let the most active clans reach POs).
well this would also suck...this way somebody could pick same scheme every single time without winning less/losing more points >:(
P.S.: there are professional football players who just play for money,and professional players who don't care that much about money,they just enjoy playing the game
BUT both kind of players are very good at what they do and they are respected for that.
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3. a simple system like 3 points for a win and -1 for a lose or something similar would just let the most active clans reach POs).
well this would also suck...this way somebody could pick same scheme every single time without winning less/losing more points >:(
Not really, people who ENJOY the game pick their favourite scheme anyway, like me, I get like what, 2-3 points a win for BnG now, I still pick it cuz I enjoy it, well not really cuz I haven't even been playing WA recently i've been playing PangYa lol it's awesome ! you should really try it ! But anyway I made the playoffs, I don't care and won't even play in them lol, winning something like that isn't good to me and I don't enjoy it so why do it?
But that's how a2b works, 3 points for win, 1 point for loss, you should be rewarded for trying, it's great :)
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We've had a system like 2 points for win and -1 for lose and as others said, it exactly happened like that. Checkout TUS 2nd season of classic league standing (https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/classic-stats/?s=2). (I remember SPW said "in no league someone with 55% ratio is first", jd had 55% that time)
You care about enjoying BnG komo, Flori used to pick TTRR all the time, that's fine. Some people enjoy "earning points". Most of TUS community believes an all around player should qualify be in PO.
After almost 1.5 year of hosting league, I've never seen somebody mention who they are playing with. ELO system is all about how much your rank differs from your opponent. I can bash some players which I know I have a huge skill difference and have a high ratio and high number of games.
When setting up ELO system for TUS, all people were like 'high ranked player must gain less if he beat low ranked, that'll teach them to stop noob bashing!', which ELO DID actually decreased noob bashing. But seems people had forgotten ELO system encourages you to 'pick on somebody your own size'.
I believe a high ranked player still have a chance to be in top seasonal, if he try to beat his own level.
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aw, this again?
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I know you guys are active, cuz you are all playing singles and other stuff, and because of me working nightshift and slowly changing my hours, i've asked you guys for clanners at literally EVERY hour of a day... And you still said no to me everytime, I have asked you literally close to 100 times in season 13, no offense, but that's pathetic, you could have managed to scratch up ONE game.
I know you played the other guys, and seriously no offense to them, but you know they are not as strong a team without the other players of CKC, all I wanted was a few games with each clans best members, and don't get me wrong, those guys are our best members, but not in that order, like we need 2 of each scheme not 1, and you knew that, all I wanted was a few games with the supposed "best clan on wa" just for the thrill of it, couldn't care if we lost or won, it's just a challenge it's like, I have to do lol, but nah, you guys have to sit back and pick your games carefully, and i'm saying this just because I think you are avoiding sometimes, which you plainly are there is no doubt about it, but, it's just really really boring to play like that, you guys are at the top, you should be defending your honour whenever challenged, not making up excuses not to accept the challenge.
Man, we also asked CKC for clanners several times and your members wouldn't play us because only bad combinations of players were on at that time. It's not a big deal to us though because it just makes no sense playing a clanner if you only have a default player and a rope player online..
CF's best example for a bad combo would be SPW and yanme: SPW isn't good at RR and Roper while yanme isn't the best choice for Elite. Asking for a clanner in such a situation is a waste of time because we don't play if we 100% know we're going to lose - where's the point?
Also, at least 50% of times you were bugging us for clanners (at least the times I witnessed) was past 1am German time during weekdays which is pretty much impossible for most our members - unlike for Chicken, Mablak and you (because of time zones and nightshifts etc, I know you're very night active).
Last thing I'm gonna say about this topic: We're asking for clanners publicly on #AG whenever we want to play, how come we never get to play you? Avoiding? Must be it. Stupid accusation imo. I'm sick of defending ourselves and more so of you accusing us of shit and talking bad about us on the forums.
See you in playoffs.
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Ahahaha
René, I appreciate the "see you in playoffs" ! :p
i just understand what Komo means, but there isnt a miracle system to satisfy all players.
In my case that's why i appreciate Tdc, we dont "calculate" anything and even if a rope guy plays with a default we play it for fun.
It just depends on the mind spirit of each persone :)
To finnish, there isnt any reason to blame a clan like Cf, theirs players are ones of the most respectfull (wtf is that english :p)
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Man, we also asked CKC for clanners several times and your members wouldn't play us because only bad combinations of players were on at that time. It's not a big deal to us though because it just makes no sense playing a clanner if you only have a default player and a rope player online..
Also, at least 50% of times you were bugging us for clanners (at least the times I witnessed) was past 1am German time during weekdays which is pretty much impossible for most our members - unlike for Chicken, Mablak and you (because of time zones and nightshifts etc, I know you're very night active).
1. You've never asked when we have been on with a full squad, and 2, I am actually most active BEFORE 1am german time and that's when I ask most, from 1am-9am I just play funners n stuff cuz theres no clans or clanmates on...
I couldn't care less how you defend yourself, start playing more or you will be accused of avoiding, it's as simple as that.
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dude this stinks, next season play more and well. nothing to do now, thats it..
there is like 19394329429 threads about this
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what is ELO ? xD
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It would of been very lame of us to stop playing clanners 2 weeks ago when we had 2200 seasonal points.
When we dropped some points after that it was difficult to regain them. Espically for seasonal as our overall rank was much higher than tdc and ps and most opponents don't give us many points for wins. We can only get nice points if we play CF or DoH. Or pick hysteria... which we suck at!
And it was rather hard to find CF all season as already dicussed.
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It would of been very lame of us to stop playing clanners 2 weeks ago when we had 2200 seasonal points.
When we dropped some points after that it was difficult to regain them. Espically for seasonal as our overall rank was much higher than tdc and ps and most opponents don't give us many points for wins. We can only get nice points if we play CF or DoH. Or pick hysteria... which we suck at!
And it was rather hard to find CF all season as already dicussed.
it happend many time with us (bOr) for you, and we are still here, not big deal. just play more and well if u wanna make it thats all
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I don't see how bitching about us on every occassion will improve the situation.
Other than that I only have 1 thing to add:
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2zp14sw.png)
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I don't see how bitching about us on every occassion will improve the situation.
Other than that I only have 1 thing to add:
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2zp14sw.png)
Rofl nice picture ^^. As agneau said, we do not care about what scheme and with who we play it just matter for our pick coz spaazi always spam me to pick T17 :D. What I think is for example yanme can be a very good elite player he just need to practice it and the best way is to do it in clanner :). General rating imo, should reflect all the member in all scheme of your clan and not only a few. After it's just a way to see things :). I totally understand that CF want to play with their best player in their scheme but that's not how I want tdc to work :).
Thing is, I must admit I prefer to play CF than a lot of clan. I know most of the member and we really often have fun playing with them. So I guess it's not CF who is avoiding but TdC for example who spam them to play :D
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Fine i'll be the one to say it cuz no one else has the guts, CF are only happy to play you all the time cuz they beat you more or less everytime,I'd bet any money I have if TdC beat CF 90% of games, you would find that they would not play you as much, I know how competitive they get and how angry they get when they lose.
And by this i'm in NO way saying you suck TdC, but it's fact they win more or less every time I know how good you guys are and how fun you are to play, you guys are what clans should be, don't care whether win or lose and just enjoy it.
And CF, you can get all angry or mad at me or laugh or whatever, I am not saying this in anger, seriously right now I'm pretty relaxed, had a few drinks and a nice night with my girl so i'm pretty chilled out and thinking straight, I still like you all individually, but as a whole clan together you can't argue with statistics and the statistics are you guys play clans you win more with, period, and no wonder you enjoy it so much, everyone likes winning and enjoys it.
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I like winning roper clanners. :-[
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I like winning roper clanners. :-[
Lol :D
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To be honest, I totally agree with you Komo. Being the top 1 clan here CF should have more balls and risk some points, but they look just like the selfish giant. IMO it's not a fair way to reach po's, just having a seat, playing the games that they need against TdC and done we're in po once again.
That's why I don't like the current system, it benefits the laziest players and other situations. I'd rather see noobashing, I wonder what's better the illness or the medicine.
I'm pretty sure if CF plays a bit more with clans like TaG, DoH or CKC they wouldn't reach PO's that easy
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To be honest, I totally agree with you Komo. Being the top 1 clan here CF should have more balls and risk some points, but they look just like the selfish giant. IMO it's not a fair way to reach po's, just having a seat, playing the games that they need against TdC and done we're in po once again.
That's why I don't like the current system, it benefits the laziest players and other situations. I'd rather see noobashing, I wonder what's better the illness or the medicine.
I'm pretty sure if CF plays a bit more with clans like TaG, DoH or CKC they wouldn't reach PO's that easy
You're speaking as if it's easy to beat us but from what I see you lost more point than won against us ;) in the last season. Dudes you just gotta admit CF is a strong clan and if TdC was noob bashing as you suggest lalo, we wouldn't be in po ;).
Komo is right about something, they often beat us, we even make fun about it (see some of tdc/cf topics :D).I might be wrong but I don't think that's just because of win they play us.
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what is ELO ? xD
Élő Árpád was a mathematician who developed a ranking system based on statistics to determine strength at chess :) The idea is still used in chess federations now, though the exact calculations are now different than wat Élő had in mind.
TUS is also using a derivative of Élő's system for ratings.
On another note: if you have problems with a certain clan's behaviour, how about talking to them rather than a hanging in the public square?
I thought this thread was about the way playoff participants were determined. If you have some suggestions that take away problems in the current system without creating new ones, I think that would be welcome indeed.
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zipp, komo never said tdc was easy, and komo never said if ckc beats tdc more, or tdc beats ckc more... he said CF beats tdc more (u dont seem to disagree) so why are u twisting around what he said??
its the truth, CF sits back picks and chooses who they play, and even sez to us "if u stopped playing when u were at ur peak, u would be in playoffs".. thats pretty lame lol...
CKC for the most part plays against any, and everyone... seemed like we had a great season, played our ass's off.. and yet still dont make it to the playoffs, thats pretty frustrating.. i wish there was a better way to do the league... but maybe there is'nt... so what does everyone suggest? ckc should only play clans we trust in beating? and when we reach a high rating level, we should stop playing alltogether, to clench a spot in the playoffs? is that the best we can come up with? :|
and lets just note: i dont think komo made this thread as a big complaint, its more of a discussion.. because allthough alot of you dont want to admit it... somthing needs to be done... i have heard countless people complaining how much the system sux... why no1 stepping up now and saying it? lol.. the system does suck... needs a change
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Let CF (because I seem to be a clan rather than an individual ::) ) rephrase then:
If the season ended when you guys were at your peak, you would've made playoffs easily. But as it is, you lost too many points near the end of season, which means you sucked and it's your own fault, period.
Edit: I already posted a thread about how useless "seasonal" playoffs qualification is here (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/tus-discussion/playoff-regulations/). Yes the system is f@#!ed up and it needs to be changed.
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saying the system sucks tho comes back to the same debate we had about single leagues. Darkone and MI have asked for suggestions on how to improve the system. Not just repeating critizism.
When there was a debate of single league and players being caught in the area of not enough overall but too much overall to acheive good seasonal points you can see that is what happened to CKC. We had a great season but we still did not qualifly. To address that we could suggest top 3 overall and 1st from seasonal to make the playoffs but i think 2 and 2 is fair. (although it sucks when a new clan is made of good players and get an easy pass to playoffs.. look at ck with dibz n shaggy. Now ck is dead and they still have unfinished playoffs)
We fell short at the end of our season. If we were as consistent as the rest of it we would of made the playoffs. But yea... we weren't lame and stopping once we had reached 2200 seasonal.. Plus none of us would of played any clanners for two weeks and how fun would that have been?
We had a winning percentage much higher than ps and tdc. Prehaps a suggestion could be to increase the winning percentage for playoff qualification? Or once again the activity and game limit? You should of seen CF when the limit was 30 and would qualify for playoffs with minimum requires and stole bor's spot.
I think it was a one off season. If we have a season as good as last and gain 900 points that will put us in the top 2 for overall hopefully. It will be harder to gain those points because of our strong overall rank but also the other clans on tus are developing and we still can gain good points off cfc, tag, bor, ps. DoH and CF give us the best points and we play doh often.
CF has a different attitude to clanning than the majority. They take a professional and very competitive approach. We can't knock them for doing that, they'll play the way they want to play. They play to the system and do pick and choose when to clan and when they are at their strongest. If you look at their past seasons you'll see that only a few of them i think they have played more than a handfull of games more than the mininum requirements for playoffs. They are all active on wormnet but they are not like us. They don't want to play clanners all the time. On worms playing clanners is the only fun i get so i choose to do that and never play 1on1's, warmers, funners of single games. Well not often anyway. The majority of my time spent on worms is in 2vs2 clan games and i love it. I wouldnt change that for the world.
Atleast avi we can enjoy yourselfs more by clanning with whoever we want and whenever we want. And still be a stable and strong clan in the league. We take the best of both ethics. For example; TdC's fun and mix it with the competitiveness of CF and thats what ive tried to do as a leader for many years. A fun competitive clan.
Tdc deserve their playoff spot. They haven't had many great seasons, no offensive, me and crazy would talk alot about tdc and its members and always knew you guys were able to produce the results you did this month. Look at their members list, some amazing players are in tdc.. HHC, fada, crazy all have outstanding reputations in certain schemes. Ive even been lucky enough to have been in the same clan as them many years ago. Then agenua and rash, theredi, ninjacamel and amokz been on good form. I wish them good luck for the playoffs.
As members of CKC we should now focus on our game and improve our overall rank, enjoy clanning, play as many clanners as we want and have fun while trying our best. Thats whats important, to have fun, try hard and its been working for us sofar. Look at our profile. Its not like we haven't made the playoffs before!! The past two seasons we've come short. This one was very close but we can use that to spur as on in season 14!
Over and out.
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lol.. the system does suck... needs a change
I heard a lot of people saying something similar to this, but noone gives a suggestion that can really be better.
Imo CKC just didnt reach the Playoffs because you were just the 3rd best overall clan and its quite hard to reach top2 seasonal if you had a decent overall rating before the season started.
That was basically one of the reasons why daina failed to reach the single POs as well. There are just seasons where you're stuck between seasonal and overall, but if you're good enough you'll just reach the overall qualification this season and you wont hate the system anymore, cause it isnt as bad as it seems for sooooooooo many of you.
edit: very nice post, chicken.
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lol.. the system does suck... needs a change
I heard a lot of people saying something similar to this, but noone gives a suggestion that can really be better.
Imo CKC just didnt reach the Playoffs because you were just the 3rd best overall clan and its quite hard to reach top2 seasonal if you had a decent overall rating before the season started.
That was basically one of the reasons why daina failed to reach the single POs as well. There are just seasons where you're stuck between seasonal and overall, but if you're good enough you'll just reach the overall qualification this season and you wont hate the system anymore, cause it isnt as bad as it seems for sooooooooo many of you.
agreed.
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Imo CKC just didnt reach the Playoffs because you were just the 3rd best overall clan and its quite hard to reach top2 seasonal if you had a decent overall rating before the season started.
Yes, and that's exactly why it's unfair for players/clans to qualify for playoffs with seasonal rankings, as mentioned many times before. :)
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Not sure if this would apply here, but I thought of something a long time ago but was never put into practice.
Right now, you could win a game and gain 40 points and your opponent loses 40 points...
My idea was to have it so you could win a game and gain 40 points and your opponent loses 20 points... exactly half of whatever you gain...
This does a few things...
1. It could raise activity. I know for CKC, when chicken is on, he likes to have a 3rd clan member on because he can't rr very well... well with this system, you wouldn't lose as much points for a rr. You would lose half of what the other clan gained. So perhaps people would be willing to clan more knowing they won't lose a barrel full of points because the two members online can't cover a certain scheme.
2. I think it shows a true reflection of the clans abilities. You could have really strong ropers playing in the clan and get a good roper rating, but sometimes you have a true defaulter on that can't rope well. Well, losing that roper with that nice big rating wouldn't put such a large hole into the rating after all. In other words, you don't get terribly punished for losing schemes your clan would normally win.
3. It helps with the higher ranked clans. Right now, if a high ranked clan did 1-1, usually it would be a loss for them. For example, right now, if higher ranked clan A wins 25 points the first game, and loses 50 points the second game, they are down 25 points even though they made it even. The system I proposed would mean clan A would have broke even at gaining 0 and losing 0. Of course, the numbers won't be so exact all the time, but that is just an example. When you do 1-1 in a clanner, it seems logical that you would end up at around the same rating you started as, give or take a few points... with the system now, it is a bit more punishing for higher ranked clans.
4. It doesn't create such a huge gap between clans. I know in CKC's case, we tried to make a run for the playoffs the last day.. we went 5-1, but the one loss came from the clan who we were trying to knock out of the playoffs... we lost 59 points that game, they gained 59 points, and right there they bolstered their lead by 118 points just for winning one game... that pretty much ended any hopes of making the playoffs. The system I proposed would have only given them a 88.5 point gain for one game... at least it turns into something less devastating for 1 simple loss. Basically, I guess this system would reduce blowout leads in the standings.
Of course with this system comes a lot of points generated from nothing, but idk what to tell you about that. It could determine better candidates for the playoffs, or it could not... you never know without testing. that's all I've got to input... peace yall................................ LOST IS THE BEST SHOW EVER!
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It's an interesting idea, but you completely ignore the fact that if an average clan beats an elite clan, then that average clan has achieved something better than could be expected based on rating. On the other hand, the elite clan achieved something sub-par based on rating.
That means the average clan should get something out of it while the elite clan should lose points (rating is supposed to show how strong you are, it's not used for ego trips). This is in direct contradiction with point 2.
As for activity: yes, it would raise activity. But would you really want activity to be the only reason people qualify? Didn't there used to be questions about people getting into playoffs with only 55% wins?
Point 3: Do they really need help? Aren't they on top enough already? (see first paragraph)
Point 4: basically, what you're asking is a lower maximum points lost/won for each game here. This also will not change the situation: If you can win 40 points for each game, then 118 points is not an easy difference to overcome. If you reduce this to 20 points for each game, then the difference would automatically become 59 points (half of it).
But you'll still need to win the same amount of games to overcome this smaller difference.
Again: interesting idea, but I don't think it'll fix the problems and possibly creates a new one (activity becomes more important than skill).
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Not sure if this would apply here, but I thought of something a long time ago but was never put into practice.
Right now, you could win a game and gain 40 points and your opponent loses 40 points...
My idea was to have it so you could win a game and gain 40 points and your opponent loses 20 points... exactly half of whatever you gain...
Take a look at the first 2 TUS seasons' games played. We had exactly this before and it awarded way too many points for activity.
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Alright cool though at least i sparked some sort of discussion. yeah. YEAH!!! LOST!!
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Alright cool though at least i sparked some sort of discussion.
And this is commendable :) Keep the ideas coming!
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I honestly think the best thing to do is Chicken's idea, which is what I have implemented in a2b already.
Raise the game limit for Clan playoffs, I think 100 games would be fair, At least 8-12 clans are active enough to achieve this.
And, or put in a win ratio % for Playoffs, I think 60% would be easily achievable for clans who actually deserve playoffs, and by this I mean, You should be able to play 100 games, and have over 60% ratio to be considered good enough for playoffs.
bOr, TdC, cfc and six only fell short of 60% by 0-6% which isn't too much to be honest, thats like about 5-15 games depending on how many they played.
I think with Game limits and win ratio's, is only way of deciding in a fair and competitive manner, who deserves the spots.
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This doesn't take into account which clans you're playing against.
Certainly, if you win 55% against CKC, CF and DoH, that should be considered a better result than winning 65% against che, LoS and WM, even though the former wouldn't qualify for playoffs, while the latter would
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Yeah but seeing as you should be playing all clans anyway, it works out, it's the best idea so far and IMO would be better than the current system...
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Why can't we just increase number of clans qualifing for play-offs?
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Why can't we just increase number of clans qualifing for play-offs?
Then it wouldn't be as highly sought after if it was THAT easy...
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Avi, I was speaking about lalo comment which I though a bit mean ;). Dude, if I understand right, you all say that there are clan who play the minimum of game and qualify to po. Let's just increase it but not by 10 or 20 by far more. Clan like CKC who play a lot of game and then do more gamble should not be the only high ranked clan taking risk :). Also I think that active clan will play PO quicker.
PO game are not played so I doubt increasing the number of clan in PO is a good idea. Also, the system as it is encourage new clan comer to clanner which is imo very good for worms.
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Yeah but seeing as you should be playing all clans anyway, it works out
If all people would play the way the game should be played, I wouldn't have quit BnG ;) And we wouldn't be having this thread either!
And then there's the whole time zone issue which makes it less likely certain clans cross your path.
But let's take a look: In season 13, if we applied win percentage, We'd get the following clans: CF, DoH, CKC and TaG. I also recall you saying TdC earned its playoff spot, but this system you're proposing seems to contradict this: TdC should've been 8th then.
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i just have one thing to say
TDC SUCKS! ... or not! :d
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Yeah but seeing as you should be playing all clans anyway, it works out
If all people would play the way the game should be played, I wouldn't have quit BnG ;) And we wouldn't be having this thread either!
And then there's the whole time zone issue which makes it less likely certain clans cross your path.
But let's take a look: In season 13, if we applied win percentage, We'd get the following clans: CF, DoH, CKC and TaG. I also recall you saying TdC earned its playoff spot, but this system you're proposing seems to contradict this: TdC should've been 8th then.
I don't have anything against TdC and please don't make it look like I do ever again...
I like TdC and actually favour them over actually more or less every other clan, they are an extremely fun and relaxed clan that you can actually let your game slip a bit with and I don't mean you can play worse, I mean, you can concentrate on having fun and trying to do cool stuff in games instead of just purely try to win by any means necessary...
And what you mean about thats why you quit BnG? BnG is pathetic meaningless and boring with no rules and easy shots.
And what I mean is with the way playing clanners, is that most clans DO play any clan they can, except a select few...
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I don't have anything against TdC and please don't make it look like I do ever again...
That was entirely not the point I was making, sir. I know you don't have anything against TdC. I know you feel TdC has earned the playoff spot.
But if we're looking at just the winning percentage, then they were in 8th place and I think you will agree with me that that would be highly unfair to TdC, considering they play every clan (and since the most active clans are also the strongest, that means they have very strong opposition).
Sorry you read my comments in a negative way, but that's not how I post.
And what you mean about thats why you quit BnG? BnG is pathetic meaningless and boring with no rules and easy shots.
The second sentence there answers the first sentence, really :)
And what I mean is with the way playing clanners, is that most clans DO play any clan they can, except a select few...
I may have read this incorrectly (please correct me if I did!), but didn't you say the exceptions were the reason clanners are messed up?
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I don't have anything against TdC and please don't make it look like I do ever again...
That was entirely not the point I was making, sir. I know you don't have anything against TdC. I know you feel TdC has earned the playoff spot.
But if we're looking at just the winning percentage, then they were in 8th place and I think you will agree with me that that would be highly unfair to TdC, considering they play every clan (and since the most active clans are also the strongest, that means they have very strong opposition).
Sorry you read my comments in a negative way, but that's not how I post.
And what you mean about thats why you quit BnG? BnG is pathetic meaningless and boring with no rules and easy shots.
The second sentence there answers the first sentence, really :)
And what I mean is with the way playing clanners, is that most clans DO play any clan they can, except a select few...
I may have read this incorrectly (please correct me if I did!), but didn't you say the exceptions were the reason clanners are messed up?
So you quit BnG because you prefer to play like myself and people at a2b? And most don't in leagues now?
And about the clanners, nvm lol can't be bothered anymore...
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" they look just like the selfish giant.
I'm pretty sure if CF plays a bit more with clans like TaG, DoH or CKC they wouldn't reach PO's that easy "
I totally agree with lalo..
this all stinks..
there should be a special warning for CF, and they should play doH and ckc 10 times a season = a minimum -to get into playoffs
that's the best way to do it..
cus CF only plays TDC.. what's not really fair yo
as I can see tdc is giving wins to CF really - nothing bad about TDC.
but CF yo? where are the balls
be a men all of you pff
dark just said that spw is newb at ropes, and dark also called yanme newb elite commander.. start clanning doH and CKC
no avoiding
we could sometimes agree the games' schemes..
[ specially for u when it's only spw and yanme on ]
as u sayin " u don't hf playing doh and ckc"
or u meant u dont HF playing strong clans cus the chances are similar to 50/50eh?
I remember CF years ago they weren't like that, when medal played and codex .. i remember only that oldschool CF times, today this is a pussy avoiding!
random00 how can you agree on that? what's wrong with all of u
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https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/clans-stats/CF/sort-time-down-1/
Total games played: 61
Games against TdC: 15
Games against doH: 4
Games against CKC: 5
Games against ps: 5
1) Could you be anymore insulting to one of the longest running and well-respected clans? "as I can see tdc is giving wins to CF really"
2) They're clearly not "only playing TdC"
3) I recall I was trying to get your clan to finally play one of your games and it took well over a month to get it done.
4) Rating is determined by your performance. It is not determined merely by your wins, it is determined by who you are playing when winning/losing. First you complain that they don't play enough, then you complain that they only play against "noobs". Well, I'll let you in on a little secret: if you only play the lowly rated clans, you'll need a huge activity to be able to gain points out of it.
Either they are active enough or they're not avoiding the strong clans.
Anyway, reason 1 was enough for me to post.
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crash even if u disagree, u can give ur arguments staying polite
especially with CF which is a clan who always respect others
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https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/clans-stats/CF/sort-time-down-1/
Total games played: 61
Games against TdC: 15
Games against doH: 4
Games against CKC: 5
Games against ps: 5
1) Could you be anymore insulting to one of the longest running and well-respected clans? "as I can see tdc is giving wins to CF really"
2) They're clearly not "only playing TdC"
3) I recall I was trying to get your clan to finally play one of your games and it took well over a month to get it done.
4) Rating is determined by your performance. It is not determined merely by your wins, it is determined by who you are playing when winning/losing. First you complain that they don't play enough, then you complain that they only play against "noobs". Well, I'll let you in on a little secret: if you only play the lowly rated clans, you'll need a huge activity to be able to gain points out of it.
Either they are active enough or they're not avoiding the strong clans.
Anyway, reason 1 was enough for me to post.
That is total and utter bull, seriously, you only look at numbered statistics, not the whole story and the truth.
They have played CKC 5 times, but look at the players who played at that time, they specifically wait until we don't even have a team for any scheme on, for example, 1 player each who is good at rope schemes, and one who is good at defaults, This is what annoys me.
You can call me WHATEVER you want OR lose your temper or whatever, I don't care lol, but the truth is, whether it is on purpose or not, even though it looks more deliberate than coincedence, you haven't played us properly (last few seasons) with our strongest squads.
They will never admit it, but the evidence all adds up better than any evidence they can provide to try and wriggle their way out of this accusation.
And Rene, do NOT take this personally ok, for starters you are 1 person not a whole clan, so it's not YOUR fault so don't think I am blaming you, you are probably the most game out of all of them imo if that helps, if I didn't respect you then I wouldn't have asked you to join b2b.
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Crash, Komo, whats exactly ur problem? A day in CF isnt like a day in any other clan. We are playing a lot of trains / fungames, we dont need the challenge anytime. If Unique, for example, asking us about playing clanner now, then we decide in group and searching by input "Clanner anyone?" in #ag. We dont care which clan response on that - we are ready for all! So this is totally bullshit at all. We dont pick up our oppenents. We actually dont care if we are ready to play!
your words sounds a bit like "they are noobasher and not that skilled like us" - and thats no respect at all. Think about that and you too Komo. I dont understand your words at all.
Just to show you what i mean, here the Playoff Stats from last couple of seasons.
Season #1 Season #2 Season #8 Season #9 Season #10 Season #11 Season #12 Season #12
CF def. RoH CF def. WQW CF def. Wee CF def. PB CF def. RoH CF def. doH CF vs doH CF vs PS
CF def. CKC bOr def. CF CF def. CKC CF def. CKC CF vs CKC CF vs cFc
Looks a "Noob-Basher-Clan" like that?
And: Random00, Darkz, Yanme, Unique and me are very fair player and we dont fake, flame and whine after or in a game. So sorry, but its kind of ironic that one of the most fairplay clan gets an insult by anybody. We dont fear anyone / any clan, and our history says a lot about our skill. Reading such things about CF makes me bit sad. But I know, there are only a few peaople thinking like that. So we should just ignore them.
CF stands for fairness and respect - but dont f*** us, we can bite too!
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Crash, Komo, whats exactly ur problem? A day in CF isnt like a day in any other clan. We are playing a lot of trains / fungames, we dont need the challenge anytime. If Unique, for example, asking us about playing clanner now, then we decide in group and searching by input "Clanner anyone?" in #ag. We dont care which clan response on that - we are ready for all! So this is totally bullshit at all. We dont pick up our oppenents. We actually dont care if we are ready to play!
your words sounds a bit like "they are noobasher and not that skilled like us" - and thats no respect at all. Think about that and you too Komo. I dont understand your words at all.
Just to show you what i mean, here the Playoff Stats from last couple of seasons.
Season #1 Season #2 Season #8 Season #9 Season #10 Season #11 Season #12 Season #12
CF def. RoH CF def. WQW CF def. Wee CF def. PB CF def. RoH CF def. doH CF vs doH CF vs PS
CF def. CKC bOr def. CF CF def. CKC CF def. CKC CF vs CKC CF vs cFc
Looks a "Noob-Basher-Clan" like that?
And: Random00, Darkz, Yanme, Unique and me are very fair player and we dont fake, flame and whine after or in a game. So sorry, but its kind of ironic that one of the most fairplay clan gets an insult by anybody. We dont fear anyone / any clan, and our history says a lot about our skill. Reading such things about CF makes me bit sad. But I know, there are only a few peaople thinking like that. So we should just ignore them.
CF stands for fairness and respect - but dont f*** us, we can bite too!
Seriously, you got to the top, just, the point is NOW you are way ahead, and you just leech points from clans that don't have their best squads on, it's quite pathetic, and not just a few people think this, ALOT of people think this, so get something done about it, if you really DO NOT fear other clans, then start clanning CKC/ps/TaG/doH ALOT more, you are all active, very active, and not just at certain times, most times you are all active, so all this, "we are too busy" "it's too late" "we are too tired" "we haven't warmed yet" excuses are just ridiculous and just MAKE you look like you are too nervous to play us, so many times have we asked you to play when we have a full CKC squad on and you have rejected, yet when we have 2 members on that are only good at 1 scheme each, or when Anything Goes is pretty emptyish with unco-ordinated clans on, you will play...
Basically, I wouldn't care if you avoided us if you weren't 1st, it's because you make playoffs EVERY season by playing the smallest amount of games with the least amount of strong squaded clans as possible, and act like you don't and it's pathetic.
You only have yourselves to blame, why don't we (CKC and CF) organise to play at least 14 games per season with each other with BOTH clans having their STRONGEST teams on?
I think that would be pretty fair, and whoever wins/loses, I really don't care, at least we played...
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once again, read carefully!
If Unique, for example, asking us about playing clanner now, then we decide in group and searching by input "Clanner anyone?" in #ag. We dont care which clan response on that - we are ready for all!
Thats how we are organized. And thats our way in the future. And you cant change us. Get it now - this is senseless at all.
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spw.. why u lying here man
I saw dark and unique asking CLANNER NE1
I say me, and SILENT ?!
then dark says no we won't clan u..
want me to respect that?
komo:
"Basically, I wouldn't care if you avoided us if you weren't 1st, it's because you make playoffs EVERY season by playing the smallest amount of games with the least amount of strong squaded clans as possible, and act like you don't and it's pathetic."
that's the truth
ye why don't we organize 15 games in this season? you with us and CKC?
want people to respect "CF" so show that by playing best clans rofl
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I saw dark and unique asking CLANNER NE1
I say me, and SILENT ?!
then dark says no we won't clan u..
want me to respect that?
Proof?
For talking bullshit we know you, Crash. U are a fool, since years. Every word with you is wasted time.
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Dave, just because YOU have the habit to play ANY clan at ANY time it doesn't necessarily mean that all the other clans have it too.
CF is a very success based clan, that's true, but we never backed off when it came down to business. Just because we don't play when we got no strong players on doesn't mean we're cowards or pathetic, GET A GRIP MAN, it's a matter of intelligent playing. Let an Elite and a Rope player play a clanner together, that's pure suicide. I'm sure you get what I mean but the only thing you do is reflect it on YOUR OWN OPINION which says differently but ITS NOT AN ABSOLUTE FACT. Whatever, just keep doing that and you'll never get any points from CF. We're free to play whoever we want and you're not helping CKC at all to get games against us.
We don't care whether or not you call us lame, cheap or pathetic, it's really just a matter of attitude and we don't have ANY obligation to play you at ANY time because we have LIVES too.
PERIOD.
And Crash, your clan is full of whiners who can't lose. That's the whole point why I don't play against you. Change your attitude or I'll keep on playing against doH only in playoffs.
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And Crash, your clan is full of whiners who can't lose. That's the whole point why I don't play against you. Change your attitude or I'll keep on playing against doH only in playoffs.
And this I understand too. Totally agree.
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Dave, just because YOU have the habit to play ANY clan at ANY time it doesn't necessarily mean that all the other clans have it too.
CF is a very success based clan, that's true, but we never backed off when it came down to business. Just because we don't play when we got no strong players on doesn't mean we're cowards or pathetic, GET A GRIP MAN, it's a matter of intelligent playing. Let an Elite and a Rope player play a clanner together, that's pure suicide. I'm sure you get what I mean but the only thing you do is reflect it on YOUR OWN OPINION which says differently but ITS NOT AN ABSOLUTE FACT. Whatever, just keep doing that and you'll never get any points from CF. We're free to play whoever we want and you're not helping CKC at all to get games against us.
We don't care whether or not you call us lame, cheap or pathetic, it's really just a matter of attitude and we don't have ANY obligation to play you at ANY time because we have LIVES too.
PERIOD.
And Crash, your clan is full of whiners who can't lose. That's the whole point why I don't play against you. Change your attitude or I'll keep on playing against doH only in playoffs.
Come on dark, don't be mean. :)
Some quote for you :P:
A man is like a cat; chase him and he will run - sit still and ignore him and he'll come purring at your feet.
Helen Rowland
“If you can't ignore an insult, top it; if you can't top it, laugh it off; and if you can't laugh it off, it's probably deserved.”
J. Russell Lynes
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FUB ftw ;* :D
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CF doesn't deserve to get in playoffs, total minimalizm
if you will be like that, noone will play you clanners soon and you won't even come close to playoffs haha
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K, if this thread is only about slamming CF, there's really no point.
If you have suggestions about how to actually improve the league, fine, go ahead. But if you're going to continue this, I'm going to lock the thread.
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Reputation: -529
All mouth and no trousers.
get a ife, boy.
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Ahahahah
seriously guys, don't forget the fun of worms
even if u take the league vvseriously (which i did in single for example)
stay polite present ur arguments and a way to improve system but stop yelling CF sux, they are cowards or things like that.
respect others thats all
and crash really think about ur clan urself before criticize (is it english? :p) others.
imo doh isn't really a model
and if u think we gave free wins to CF, its maybe true coz we dont calculate anything
if i am with a mate and we want to play clanner, no matter who answers we will play it at any schem he picks
tdc kept being a fun clan and we always play with fairplay
thats all
and i dont give a piece of shit to statistics, but check if we didnt give "free wins" to ckc or doh too
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Dave, just because YOU have the habit to play ANY clan at ANY time it doesn't necessarily mean that all the other clans have it too.
CF is a very success based clan, that's true, but we never backed off when it came down to business. Just because we don't play when we got no strong players on doesn't mean we're cowards or pathetic, GET A GRIP MAN, it's a matter of intelligent playing. Let an Elite and a Rope player play a clanner together, that's pure suicide. I'm sure you get what I mean but the only thing you do is reflect it on YOUR OWN OPINION which says differently but ITS NOT AN ABSOLUTE FACT. Whatever, just keep doing that and you'll never get any points from CF. We're free to play whoever we want and you're not helping CKC at all to get games against us.
We don't care whether or not you call us lame, cheap or pathetic, it's really just a matter of attitude and we don't have ANY obligation to play you at ANY time because we have LIVES too.
PERIOD.
And Crash, your clan is full of whiners who can't lose. That's the whole point why I don't play against you. Change your attitude or I'll keep on playing against doH only in playoffs.
You are actually being an idiot right now and your lying, your clan ARE cowards when it comes to clanners, PERIOD !
This isn't a game where you win money, or do it professionally so screw your intelligent playing, it's just sad...
Even when you win, you don't win anything, you are ALL active and EVERYTIME we ask you to play when WE have a strong squad on, you say no...
I know you can pick and choose when you clan, which isn't my point, it's that you ALWAYS say no to us...
I seriously though you out of everyone in CF would see where I am coming from, I didn't even insult you personally or anything I raised valid, true points without attacking individuals.
Anyway I couldn't care less anymore as I have other things to do, just thought i'd point out how useless CF is, and how most actually agree, if you want a totally professional clan, play a professional game where you can actually win things...
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Let me try it another way.
CF, can you PLEASE try a little harder to play us more?
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Let me try it another way.
CF, can you PLEASE try a little harder to play us more?
only when there are more then 4 players :D
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NT @ having a mature discussion, guys.