The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
One-Boards => Schemes => Topic started by: Statik on May 05, 2012, 07:01 PM
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MI asked me to post some replay examples of lucky ropers... Here they are. I'm not complaining or smth, I just want some people who don't believe there is luck in roper to see these replays :)
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franz once, twice and three times made me example of a person who were lucky in ropers on XTC, that I had beaten players considered more skillful then me as a result of the crates. I wanted to use franz as punchingbag back then, because I don't really buy this luck talk for this scheme. I can't watch the replays right now, I will later, but I doubt it will change my mind ;P
Crate rape can occure, I don't deny that, but how a player deals with this crate rape is also skill. Does he rage-rope to the crates in desperation to close the gap in health, or does he manage to continue roping controlled? How does he deal with this crate rape, can he control his temper and play a new roper afterwards without being affected by frustration from last game? There are alot more aspects to consider then just the crates, but more how they affect your mind... The better player wins in the end (overall).
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franz once, twice and three times made me example of a person who were lucky in ropers on XTC, that I had beaten players considered more skillful then me as a result of the crates. I wanted to use franz as punchingbag back then, because I don't really buy this luck talk for this scheme.
crazy, what? I think your memories are starting to get really exaggerated, because I've never posted replays saying one person was lucky to win. PM me if you like, we can clear it up once and for all ^^
as for 'lucky roper', I've never denied that there is at least some luck in roper, due to random crate drops. but this will always be the case until someone invents a crateless roper, probably something similar to wxw. My main argument has always been that player mistakes overwhelmingly 99% decide games more than random crates. we're all human, so mistakes are not surprising.
I've already openly (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/announcements/new-plan-for-leagues/msg114933/#msg114933) suggested (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/announcements/new-plan-for-leagues/msg114943/#msg114943) some nice roper ideas, my main one being that 1v1's should have 2 worms per team to add to the strategy. with two worm piles, like in clanners, it adds strategy and likely also would affect how people would approach random crates especially if another worm pile is nearby.
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I've already made my points on other threads.
Game one is all I watched and I feel it is a bad example.
Artics hide first turn was very bad strategically. Can't blame that first bad cr8.
Look at the map. Look where you guys hid the majority of the game.
Both of you made mistakes, it was not a flawless game.
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franz once, twice and three times made me example of a person who were lucky in ropers on XTC, that I had beaten players considered more skillful then me as a result of the crates. I wanted to use franz as punchingbag back then, because I don't really buy this luck talk for this scheme.
crazy, what? I think your memories are starting to get really exaggerated, because I've never posted replays saying one person was lucky to win. PM me if you like, we can clear it up once and for all ^^
as for 'lucky roper', I've never denied that there is at least some luck in roper, due to random crate drops. but this will always be the case until someone invents a crateless roper, probably something similar to wxw. My main argument has always been that player mistakes overwhelmingly 99% decide games more than random crates. we're all human, so mistakes are not surprising.
I've already openly (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/announcements/new-plan-for-leagues/msg114933/#msg114933) suggested (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/announcements/new-plan-for-leagues/msg114943/#msg114943) some nice roper ideas, my main one being that 1v1's should have 2 worms per team to add to the strategy. with two worm piles, like in clanners, it adds strategy and likely also would affect how people would approach random crates especially if another worm pile is nearby.
You can support adding another worm but you can't support higher fd? I agree with 2 worms per team like in clanner.
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I agree, some maps are just not meant to hide in the absolute hardest hide. it's risk/reward when you use those hides. yes you may be safe from an opponent's hard crate, but you're risking harder crates for yourself every single time you hide there. so that's on artic. he also was roping less and less efficient as he got more and more frustrated. like dub said, it's far from a flawless game, you can't blame crates alone.
dub, I'll support what I believe in personally and I generally speak up about it. you should too, I haven't seen you make a fd thread yet. try to convince people. personally, the only reason I can think of for increasing fd is to punish mistakes more harshly. so yeah, I guess if that's what people want, why not? I'm not personally all that against trying higher fd, but I think everyone, like me, just needs to feel convinced.
we've gone on too long just accepting things the way they are, so these discussions are always good in my eyes. I think it's healthy to improve schemes. major sports try to improve every year, so what's stopping us? perhaps getting everyone to agree is the hardest part.
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Roper - one of the luckiest scheme on tus and thats okay since luck is part of competitions ae!
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Roper - one of the luckiest scheme on tus and thats okay since luck is part of competitions ae!
You are new to roper. Maybe after a few thousand ropers your opinion would be more credible.
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I agree, some maps are just not meant to hide in the absolute hardest hide. it's risk/reward when you use those hides. yes you may be safe from an opponent's hard crate, but you're risking harder crates for yourself every single time you hide there. so that's on artic. he also was roping less and less efficient as he got more and more frustrated. like dub said, it's far from a flawless game, you can't blame crates alone.
dub, I'll support what I believe in personally and I generally speak up about it. you should too, I haven't seen you make a fd thread yet. try to convince people. personally, the only reason I can think of for increasing fd is to punish mistakes more harshly. so yeah, I guess if that's what people want, why not? I'm not personally all that against trying higher fd, but I think everyone, like me, just needs to feel convinced.
we've gone on too long just accepting things the way they are, so these discussions are always good in my eyes. I think it's healthy to improve schemes. major sports try to improve every year, so what's stopping us? perhaps getting everyone to agree is the hardest part.
You see fd as a punishment for mistakes. I see more fd as a reward for skilled knocks and drops for fd. If you did 10 fd damage 5 times throughout the entire game, this would make up for a bad cr8, or win you the game outright.
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more fd + cr8 luck will be even worse :<
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more fd + cr8 luck will be even worse :<
Could you expand on this further? Do you have any experience playing ropers with higher fd?
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roper - some luck with cr8s / lot more skill
I wouldnt mind higher fd either way
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Could you expand on this further? Do you have any experience playing ropers with higher fd?
I didn't play, but I can imagine higher fd in our game with Artic.. I would win much faster, because he didn't have time to make any fd to me. Also I failed more turns, but still easy win, the game shouldn't be flawless to be considered "lucky".
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Could you expand on this further? Do you have any experience playing ropers with higher fd?
I didn't play, but I can imagine higher fd in our game with Artic.. I would win much faster, because he didn't have time to make any fd to me. Also I failed more turns, but still easy win, the game shouldn't be flawless to be considered "lucky".
With higher fd maybe, perhaps, you would not have been hiding where you were. Maybe Artic would have attacked on some of the cr8s where he just missed an attack. Maybe he could have had nice drops on you and made up for a cr8?
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Could you expand on this further? Do you have any experience playing ropers with higher fd?
I didn't play, but I can imagine higher fd in our game with Artic.. I would win much faster, because he didn't have time to make any fd to me. Also I failed more turns, but still easy win, the game shouldn't be flawless to be considered "lucky".
but if it is you can see how exactly luck made a factor
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The conclusion is, Dub-C and franz are blind to the truth, glad I ain't that dumb lol.
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You forgot to include me in your dumb list komo :)
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You forgot to include me in your dumb list komo :)
You too then. :P
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There are only very few schemes which are luckfree (Schemes where is no luck included if you use the right maps and no chute).
The only luckfree schemes are: ttrr without chute, SuperSheepRace, BungeeRace on maps without pixelwalls, BoomRace on maps without pixelwalls, Golf on no pixelmaps, BigRR without chute and Tower Race without chute. In every scheme you can still have a big advantage if you know the map much better than your opponent.
All other schemes including luck - which should be (in the theory and mainly) no problem because WA should create games where both get 50 % bad luck and 50% luck. This works not in every single game, it gets only close to it at the overall when you played very many games.
Very important to say is, that THE LUCK ALONE DOES NEVER DECIDE A GAME, because none game can be perfect and there's almost always a chance for a comeback or that the opponent fails. Even with an advantage you still have to rope / handle safe and concentrated to do no fails less fails than your opponent to win.
Like I said the luck can't decide the game directly. A real noob would never beat a real pro. Luck only creates unfair advantages where you can counter with tactic and skill. If that's not enough because the opponent is on the same or a higher skilllevel the advantage could create a not 100% deserved victory for your opponent, so the luck can decide the game indirect. For sure that person who got an advantage (because of luck) has more chance to win the game. But that's like real life ... Just don't give up and let the past be past. Your luck will come back.
+ Theres another way to get a lot of advantage ... Just practise a lot. + If you are very lame you use always the same map(s) to get the lame-advantage, too.
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franz and dub (and MI lol) are generally right, but they exaggerate a little, luck does have it's moments.
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Very important to say is, that THE LUCK ALONE DOES NEVER DECIDE A GAME, because none game can be perfect and there's almost always a chance for a comeback or that the opponent fails. Even with an advantage you still have to rope / handle safe and concentrated to do no fails less fails than your opponent to win.
That is basically the main point. Can we close this topic now? :)
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u can throw me on that list with MI franz and dub, people bringing up cr8 luck in roper has always just been a waste of time... worms has luck in it, get over it
and i love 2 worm roper, i think i might start asking for it with tus
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If you think luck doesn't exist in roper, id say you are mildly misinformed. I am the luckiest wormer to ever shoot a ninja rope in a roper. Ask anyone. It's unfair to go up against my noob crates.
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Ok so roper is the luckiest scheme there is eh? Lets look at the numbers.
TTRR is widely considered the least luckiest scheme. So the top 10 overall winning percentage should be much higher then in roper right?
1 f4st 77 60 17 77.92% -1 +15/-3 2576
2 sock cFc 368 239 129 64.95% +20 +20/-13 2553
3 Dulek ps 85 64 21 75.29% +2 +20/-5 2500
4 Random00 CF 159 131 28 82.39% +7 +24/-3 2417
5 dibz mm 244 210 34 86.07% +5 +45/-4 2360
6 franz CF 137 101 36 73.72% +4 +13/-4 2319
7 Flori ps 191 154 37 80.63% +2 +23/-4 2255
8 ZiPpO 290 221 69 76.21% -2 +29/-6 2254
9 barman mm 103 90 13 87.38% +7 +23/-3 2196
10 ArtiC cFc 286 233 53 81.47% -2 +32/-9 2128
The average winning percentage of TTRR is 78.603%
Roper should obviously be much much lower since its so lucky and you will lose so often because of luck. Lets look at the numbers.
1 ZiPpO 400 300 100 75% +5 +17/-4 2365
2 Crazy TdC 180 115 65 63.89% +7 +10/-5 2272
3 Dulek ps 75 60 15 80% +6 +16/-3 2254
4 Random00 CF 116 102 14 87.93% +5 +17/-2 2222
5 dibz mm 319 266 53 83.39% +3 +31/-5 2222
6 fr4nk CKC 112 82 30 73.21% -1 +17/-6 2131
7 ArtiC cFc 167 135 32 80.84% +2 +25/-3 2096
8 lalo cFc 114 79 35 69.3% +14 +18/-9 2054
9 Crash CKC 281 189 92 67.26% +7 +15/-7 2008
10 franz CF 73 52 21 71.23% +3 +9/-4 1943
Ropers overall winning percentage is 75.205%. That's only 3 percent lower then ttrr? How is this possible for such a lucky scheme? How could people have such a high winning percentage when its so lucky? WOW?
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If you think luck doesn't exist in roper, id say you are mildly misinformed. I am the luckiest wormer to ever shoot a ninja rope in a roper. Ask anyone. It's unfair to go up against my noob crates.
you got nothing, I beat u once >:)
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many threads about roper now.. didn't think ppl gave a fk about this schem x)
ROPER FOR TRL!! ^^
and my imho on the roper = luck is, bs (roper isn't 100% luck).
the better u get at playing roper the less luck u think is involved.. the noob or mediocre roper player will say: yep, this schem is about 75% luck.
the pro player will probably say something like: there is some luck involved, but the probability of getting only bad crates or only getting easy crates is low, so the luck is about 5-10% and rest is skill (note: im kinda noob in roper, so not talking from experience, i feel like there is more than 10% luck there, but when u get better, u might feel like most crates are easy and u feel like roper is not so luck based as u thought 5 years ago, lelz)
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This is not a complaining topic, I just tried to show replays where crates decided much (MI was interested in such replays). Here is franz vs Csongi PO game: https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-109463/ Yes, it wasn't a flawless game, but crates really made Csongi's life easier. It looks like people who are sure there is no luck in roper will always find some mistakes which dramatically affected the game. And I guess in the perfect roper game players should predict crates positions, because there are no random numbers, they are pseudo-random and generated by strict algorithms :P
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Here is franz vs Csongi PO game
That doesn't count. Csongi is just a lucky exception.
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Ok so roper is the luckiest scheme there is eh? Lets look at the numbers.
TTRR is widely considered the least luckiest scheme. So the top 10 overall winning percentage should be much higher then in roper right? [...]
The average winning percentage of TTRR is 78.603%
Roper should obviously be much much lower since its so lucky and you will lose so often because of luck. Lets look at the numbers. [...]
Ropers overall winning percentage is 75.205%. That's only 3 percent lower then ttrr? How is this possible for such a lucky scheme? How could people have such a high winning percentage when its so lucky? WOW?
Note: you have simply calculated the average of winning percentages without taking into account the number of games played by every player.
The weighted averages are 77.47% for TTRR and 75.21% for roper.
Let's look at the weighted averages from the other classic league schemes:
BnG: 84.68%
Elite: 72.94%
Hysteria: 73.82%
Shopper: 74.09%
Team17: 76.4%
WxW: 77.22%
These numbers make me think that comparing the top 10 players' winning percentages is not a good idea to measure how does luck affect the scheme. Players who dominate their favorite schemes are a bad test sample.
Instead, I think it's better to look at the average of the overall points gained by winners of a set of random games from every scheme. A higher average would suggest a more lucky scheme, because it would show that low-rated players occur to beat high-rated players more often.
Here are the results for 100 most recent singles non-playoff games in every scheme. (A total of 800 games analyzed)
BnG: 37.17
Elite: 30.58
Hysteria: 32.77
Roper: 32.95
Shopper: 30.9
Team17: 31.21
TTRR: 28.92
WxW: 29.03
BnG is a large peculiarity here, I think that the unusually high average rating gain is caused by the fact that it's the least played scheme and it's not an uncommon situation when a player's rating doesn't really reflect his/her skill level.
If my methodology is correct, then aside BnG, roper appears to be the most luck-based scheme, followed by hysteria and T17.
Edit: forgot to include WxW
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What are these numbers, bar? And how did u calculate? You should provide a more detailed explanation for lazy people like me :P
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These numbers make me think that comparing the top 10 players' winning percentages is not a good idea to measure how does luck affect the scheme. Players who dominate their favorite schemes are a bad test sample.
Why? Why are they a bad test sample?
I would think the top 10 would be the best test sample since there skill is the highest and luck should play a smaller role.
How do you jump to the conclusion that looking at point distribution has any significance on luck factor? Would winning % not make a little more sense. The more the luck, the lower the winning percentage should be, right?
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The winning percentages: go to any overall scheme standings page (like this (https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/classic-stats/Roper-stats/?s=overall)), sum up the number of won games from the top 10 players, divide by the sum of all games played.
The rating gain averages: go to the recent games from any scheme (like this (https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/recent-classic/Roper/?s=overall)), sum up the overall rating changes from the first 100 games excluding the playoff ones, divide by 100.
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I don't see how rating change holds any significance of luck factor. Could you explain this further.
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This is not a complaining topic, I just tried to show replays where crates decided much (MI was interested in such replays). Here is franz vs Csongi PO game: https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-109463/ Yes, it wasn't a flawless game, but crates really made Csongi's life easier. It looks like people who are sure there is no luck in roper will always find some mistakes which dramatically affected the game. And I guess in the perfect roper game players should predict crates positions, because there are no random numbers, they are pseudo-random and generated by strict algorithms :P
MI wanted my reaction to this game too (specifics), so I'll say it here: I still played like crap, and I'm not happy with my play. I put it on me more than anything (like crates). my 1st turn: awful grab, my 3rd turn: awful climb, 5th turn: awful escape, 8th turn: bad/slow grab (attacked same crate earlier), 11th turn: awful grab again.
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I don't see how rating change holds any significance of luck factor. Could you explain this further.
When you face someone who's better that you (thus higher rated), it's natural that you will need some luck in order to win (by luck I mean any unintentional actions that bring you closer to winning, my definition is not limited to random crate drops). On the contrary, you will probably need some bad luck in order to lose against a weak (lower rated) opponent. Therefore we can see a simple relationship between the potential number of points you can win/lose and the amount of (bad) luck deciding about the outcome of the match.
I think that such relationship is less evident in the win/lose ratio statistics, because they provide no distinction between winning against strong and weak opponent. Take MonkeyIsland (https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/members-stats/MonkeyIsland/?s=overall;l=classic) as an example, he's a top wormer without doubt but his overall winning percentage is rather low (57.78%), because the considerable number of his opponents are other very strong players. On the other side, someone who prefers playing against weak opponents will probably have a good winning ratio coupled with a lower rating.
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i think its funny how anyone can deny there is a major luck factor in rope games...
and when discussed, or shown proof they say "well, that was not a perfect game, so does not count"
there is no such thing as a perfect game, and there never will be.
in an elite game if a lesser skilled player made some crazy skunk play, where the skunk did some insane jumps or made it through a tiny gap that normally would never happen.... majority of people would say it was a lucky win....
but obviously some players would say .... "well, i did not get full damage with the dyno, so it was not a perfect game, my fault"
ok, i went a bit off topic, just trying to make a point that just because a perfect game is not played, does not mean there was not a large factor of luck involved...
the random generated droppings of crates can determine if a player attacks or not... because no matter how good Dub-C 'thinks' he is, there are some crates that are just purely impossible... and that is not fair, its LUCK.
there are a number of things we can do, in order to decrease the luck (we will never eliminate it) but no one wants to do that... this scheme is classic.
you learned to rope with 25 seconds, lets retire with it.
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Just play roper on an empty map with 4 sec Turntime..
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there is no such thing as a perfect game, and there never will be.
And that's the reason why games where crates alone decide the winner are so rare. There's little point in blaiming a bad crate for your loss when you could've won if you didn't make mistakes. I remember that clanner when shyguy was all mad at crates for losing. But in that game mm would still have won if he just did one less major mistake in crucial moment.
Nobody says there's no luck in roper, but you somehow fail to see it's not as LARGE a factor as you say it is.
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there is no such thing as a perfect game, and there never will be.
Yes there is, Deadcode can program it.
And in human terms, like, "he played perfect" is true also, i've seen people go entire games without making 1 costly mistake. Who really gives a f@#! anyway, some people are too dumb to see the truth, some aren't, we're all gonna die someday anyway who cares...
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Ok rok, if you and I play a roper game and my crates are undeniably hareder...
That means I have to rope harder, faster, and stroner then you...
I would say that increases my odds of falling dramaticly...
So people like me and shy will blame the crates, you dub and franz will blame the fallin result of the crate.. But no, not the crate. THE FALL!
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avi seems to be the only one who actually understands ... :p
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So far barman has been the only one to address my stats. If roper is so lucky, how can the top 10 overall ropers have such a high win percentage? One that is comparable to all the other schemes and even comparable to ttrr?
Crates to not hurt the better roper, they help the better roper.
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avi seems to be the only one who actually understands ... :p
No.
Me too!
Ok rok, if you and I play a roper game and my crates are undeniably hareder...
That means I have to rope harder, faster, and stroner then you...
I would say that increases my odds of falling dramaticly...
So people like me and shy will blame the crates, you dub and franz will blame the fallin result of the crate.. But no, not the crate. THE FALL!
It is just true.
Just think about sport:
Person 1 runs 5 km.
Person 2 runs 10 km.
Everybody just say: Sure, it is possible that Person 2 beats Person 1 although Person 1 has such a big advantage.
But if Person 2 would complain at tus because his way was longer many people here would say: No, you were just too slow, you started too fast and then failed (got exhausted too early, fall, shit in pants, died, or what ever).
And then a lot of people will say: WOOOOOOOOOOOOW PERSON 1, VERY GOOD JOB, you won because u just did less mistakes :D
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Ok rok, if you and I play a roper game and my crates are undeniably hareder...
That means I have to rope harder, faster, and stroner then you...
I would say that increases my odds of falling dramaticly...
So people like me and shy will blame the crates, you dub and franz will blame the fallin result of the crate.. But no, not the crate. THE FALL!
My point is that, most of the time, neither player's crates are "undeniably" harder. Sure it's crates to blame if they all fall on the other side of the map for you, but as someone else said ITT, that happens 1 out of 100 games. This excuse "I had to risk more" just isn't there as often as you want it to be.
(http://i48.servimg.com/u/f48/11/68/36/17/avirex10.png)
A and B is roughly where most crates fall. If you're a good roper, whether you got all A crates and your opponent all B, it shouldn't matter. You'll get them all and attack.
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avi seems to be the only one who actually understands ... :p
No.
Me too!
Ok rok, if you and I play a roper game and my crates are undeniably hareder...
That means I have to rope harder, faster, and stroner then you...
I would say that increases my odds of falling dramaticly...
So people like me and shy will blame the crates, you dub and franz will blame the fallin result of the crate.. But no, not the crate. THE FALL!
It is just true.
Just think about sport:
Person 1 runs 5 km.
Person 2 runs 10 km.
Everybody just say: Sure, it is possible that Person 2 beats Person 1 although Person 1 has such a big advantage.
But if Person 2 would complain at tus because his way was longer many people here would say: No, you were just too slow, you started too fast and then failed (got exhausted too early, fall, shit in pants, died, or what ever).
And then a lot of people will say: WOOOOOOOOOOOOW PERSON 1, VERY GOOD JOB, you won because u just did less mistakes :D
I swear, some people on these forums just love to have an opinion and have to respond in threads even though they have no clue what they are talking about and have no experience on the matter at hand.
Dennis:
League ropers played: 18
Wins: 2
Yea you definitely have an expert opinion on this matter.
How about you run along and play a bigrr and let the ropers talk k
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I swear, some people on these forums just love to have an opinion and have to respond in threads even though they have no clue what they are talking about and have no experience on the matter at hand.
Dennis:
League ropers played: 18
Wins: 2
Yea you definitely have an expert opinion on this matter.
How about you run along and play a bigrr and let the ropers talk k
That's an evil fail.
At logical things like 2 + 2 = 4 you don't need much experience, you just need a brain.
I never said that I expect to win in tight parts vs a pro or lose vs a pro because of bl. You should think a little more before posting things like that.
And you shouldn't be so ignorant and keep comparing a noob with a pro.
Try to think about a game where a noob plays vs a noob. If both noobs r on the same skilllevel, that noob with 3 easy crates more ( = 3 attacks more) could have enough advantage to win it with less skill. If that noob with the victory in that cause wouldve got 4 harder crates ( = 4 attacks less) he would've lost the same game, although he has absolutely the same skill.
I know it by myself that the luck does not decide the games directly, for the detailed description you should read my first post here :-\
Edit: Insert Link: https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/schemes-13/lucky-roper-(for-mi-franz-dub-c)/msg118795/#msg118795
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I swear, some people on these forums just love to have an opinion and have to respond in threads even though they have no clue what they are talking about and have no experience on the matter at hand.
Dennis:
League ropers played: 18
Wins: 2
Yea you definitely have an expert opinion on this matter.
How about you run along and play a bigrr and let the ropers talk k
brilliant post dub, we should ban all those unexperieced noobs and only let gods like you write their golden almighty words. didnt want to post here but, your ignorance ...
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yeah dub stfu... just because he does not have as many roper tus games played as you, does not mean he does not have an opinion you clown.
and, im not saying crates decide games, and thats all....
im not saying the higher skilled player will not win majority of the time...
im not saying, that bl cr8s play a bigger roll the mistakes in losing...
all im saying is that the player who got more of the impossible crates through out the game, obviously has to rope a longer distance, resulting in higher risk to make a mistake through out the game.... can anyone here disagree with that? no.
so, you can say its not the crates that make you lose, its the mistakes you make that make you lose.... but having to rope farther and longer means your at a higher risk of making mistakes..... therefor its the crates.. duh
the thing that bothers me the most about this situation is that there are things we can do in order to minimize the luck factor, but as long as you guys keep thinking there is not a luck factor, because no1 plays flawless... nothing is going to change.
and as long as dub keeps thinking he is some kind of roper guru, and trying to talk down to others because they dont have many TUS roper games played.... nothing is going to change.
shyguy said it the best... "why do we let the random generated crate engine, determine if we can make our next attack or not?"
think about it.
edit: im still confused as to what a perfect game has to do with luck.
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and, im not saying crates decide games, and thats all....
im not saying the higher skilled player will not win majority of the time...
im not saying, that bl cr8s play a bigger roll the mistakes in losing...
Ok. So we agree then?
The top ropers have a winning percentage comparable to all the other schemes.
The higher skilled player or the player that plays better will win a high percentage of the time.
What's the problem exactly?
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yeah dub stfu... just because he does not have as many roper tus games played as you, does not mean he does not have an opinion you clown.
I never said that Dennis doesn't have an opinion. I said his knowledge on this subject is extremely limited and his opinion is basically worthless.
As I said to Peja in AG, if I was on a forum and physicists were having a debate on quantum mechanics and string theory, even though I watched a 30 minute television show on string theory, I'm intelligent enough to realize that my opinion may not be well enough informed to start lecturing them on the subject.
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all im saying is that the player who got more of the impossible crates through out the game, obviously has to rope a longer distance, resulting in higher risk to make a mistake through out the game.
right Avi!
I can not believe that such smart peoples can not find better option for roper then those f@#!in crates.
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dub, get your giant head out of your ass....
your trying to compare your roping experience with physics of any kind? get a grip dude... you dont even know what your talking about....
your major point in all of this is that mistakes play a bigger roll then crates do...
but you have not addressed the fact that the harder crates result in a higher chance for mistakes.... so either your too dumb to understand this logic, or you really believe your right, because your experience in roper is far greater then any of these "newbs" as you consider them.
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but you have not addressed the fact that the harder crates result in a higher chance for mistakes.... so either your too dumb to understand this logic, or you really believe your right, because your experience in roper is far greater then any of these "newbs" as you consider them.
Everybody in the world needs to permanently imprint this in their memory and never forget it. I honestly laugh at people who think crates never decide a game lol, it really doesn't bother me anymore, it's just really really funny lol.
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but you have not addressed the fact that the harder crates result in a higher chance for mistakes.... so either your too dumb to understand this logic, or you really believe your right, because your experience in roper is far greater then any of these "newbs" as you consider them.
Everybody in the world needs to permanently imprint this in their memory and never forget it. I honestly laugh at people who think crates never decide a game lol, it really doesn't bother me anymore, it's just really really funny lol.
How many games does it decide though? This is my point. It is a low percentage. Prove otherwise.
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Dub-C, you seem to be forgetting what dennis said about lesser but equal skilled players playing each other, it doesn't make them unprofessional, it just makes players like you, elite. If dennis was to play someone who hasn't played Worms before, he'd look like a god.
It's like, for example, stephen hendry vs ronnie o sullivan at snooker, would be imo something like Mablak vs dibz both at their peak in roping, and then watching dennis vs peja, both games are professional, just, Mablak/dibz are the best of the best, dennis/peja are less skilled, but still professional.
crates decide the outcome of the game imo at least 20% of ALL games, not just the best players.
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and still there are no replays posted where crates decide the game
here are some replays where crates don't decide games: https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/recent-classic/Roper/?s=overall
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and still there are no replays posted where crates decide the game
Husk, let me share a very valuable quote with you "You cannot find what you are looking for, if you don't know what it is".
Same as, "If you do not know what you are searching for, you may never find it".
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I'm searching for a replay of a lost game due to crates.
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Dub-C, you seem to be forgetting what dennis said about lesser but equal skilled players playing each other, it doesn't make them unprofessional, it just makes players like you, elite. If dennis was to play someone who hasn't played Worms before, he'd look like a god.
It's like, for example, stephen hendry vs ronnie o sullivan at snooker, would be imo something like Mablak vs dibz both at their peak in roping, and then watching dennis vs peja, both games are professional, just, Mablak/dibz are the best of the best, dennis/peja are less skilled, but still professional.
crates decide the outcome of the game imo at least 20% of ALL games, not just the best players.
The situation that 2 players of exact equal skill play each other doesn't occur. There always will be one which is more safe, which is more quick, which can handle climbs better or scroll better than the other. That's simply too theoretical. But then, would the difference in skill level make a big difference in the outcome of the game? Or will the crate luck do? I don't think so. It's a combination of many thing which make you lose or win. I think rather a change of mind is needed here. If you don't think the crates work against you then you're on a good way to get the right attitude to still win a game if you get f@#!ed by crates. :)
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Seriously, it's like talking to a brick wall here on TuS lol.
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(http://img1.joyreactor.ru/pics/comment/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B8%D0%BA%D1%81%D1%8B-you-don%27t-say-9gag-%D0%B4%D0%B0-%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BD%D0%BE%3F-52761.png)
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Just my opinion though, not trying to disagree for the disagreement's sake. :/
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Yah I know, we just see things differently, but it's still frustrating, it's same both ends.
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Seriously, it's like talking to a brick wall here on TuS lol.
You are just plain ignorant. You act like everything you say is fact. It's your opinion it's not fact.
Oh wait I forgot
I seem to be the only one who actually understands the whole depth to this game, both professionally and logically
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Ok.. So what I have gathered from all this is..
Hard crates are not the problem... The problem is the worm that rushed to get the hard crate, he made a mistake...
Notice the guy with the easy crate, he had a perfect turn ;)
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Everytime! Every scheme discussion turns into this. wow.