The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon

I've been roping without parachute since the inception of ZaR community. Recent years I have been thinking ''Why do we need parachute in popular rope schemes? It totally feels like trainer mode is enabled holding your hand''.  New people that comes to my rope games without parachute  doesn't always question the absence of parachute, instead they try to adapt. Many have successfully adapted and accepted the punishment that comes with no parachute and improved. It is fun for them to overcome and that's why it is so enjoyable.

Big Zar RR have batty to compensate for lack of parachute, and allows for risky climbs. That's why people like, the reward of  calculating the release of bazooka and eluding its blast radius. It takes certain skills just to do that in nick of time.

No no ladies, I am not dismissing parachute, and disputing the fact it is useful in certain scenarios. But the question is, do we really need it? Do we need to depend on parachute to save us?

Shopper is better with parachutes. Big RR is slightly better with parachutes. Otherwise I prefer schemes without them.

Why dont you people who likes to play without parachute just dont active this? Why to remove parachute from scheme? Who wants to rope with parachute active and who dont like to play with parachute just dont active...

My opinion is, there's more skill and strategy involving rope knocking (high fall pile, hide etc), than trying to don't lose your turn playing with half speed plus great chances to end up panicking with a self hit zook lol.
This statement is limited to battle rope schemes. Racing schemes are argueable.

f@#! the parachute! in my opinion it should be extinguished in the rope games.

We shouldn't promote drug use on TUS.
Do it in safety of your home guys, stop sharing opinions with others when you're high.

No parachute...  :D

I'd miss lazy falls

If you can't rope with full speed with no parachute, then you surely lack confidence in your own ability. There's many form of roping, but if you are only about showing off, doing 10 tricks in one short turn, then you are better off doing that in a warmer or trick race. Why even play roper or even a shopper where there are 30s and do hundreds of tricks before attacking? Sure, one could argue ''It is fun and enjoyable'' And to some extent I do agree. But isn't it better just to do a nice efficient turn, with a few cool tricks that can benefit the turn in hand? Why do you even have to compromise your turn with risky moves where parachute saves you on each possible fail? It is better to do these risky moves when they are called for, otherwise you will look incompetent for each time parachute activates.

I have seen experienced ropers fail over and over because they favor freestyle and recklessness over efficiency. You can be just as fast if you just adapt.

It is kind of sad, that people are so reliant on this trainer mode it is embarrassing. To be honest, parachute should only be in warmers.

He didn't talk about zar in awhile.. This thread could turn into it. Just wait, people.

Quote from: Kradie on August 03, 2019, 08:16 AMIf you can't rope with full speed with no parachute, then you surely lack confidence in your own ability

how about skill and equipment? I can't rope with full speed even with parachute

No offense Kradie, and don't take it personally, but in my personal opinion Big ZaR RR is the dumbest ZaR variant or Big RR variant I have ever seen yet.

So Big RR is almost completely luck free scheme, right? There are two minor things preventing it to be 100% luck free. One of them is parachute. Since wind value is always random, it adds a certain luck element. But there are some stuff to consider: First, it becomes a more welcoming scheme for beginners. They can fail but if they have parachute they still have chance to keep going. I mean if you are good, people won't catch you just because they got a parachute. You know Sensei's TT Big RR Challies, right? I think they are great way to compete Big RR offline and really welcomes everyone. They have parachute AND ldet module, where your turn never ends even if you fail. Does that make noobs beat pros? Nope. Just take a look at winners (https://www.tus-wa.com/challenges/challenge-755/) in challenges list. Nonentity won every challenge he participated. Parachute or even ldet won't change the outcome. So why make things difficult for beginners in a game that is already losing player base every year? I personally improved my roping mostly by playing big rr with ldet like sensei's scheme back in the day. We had similar challenges with an identical scheme in UC site. Since it was beginner friendly, it attracted more people and those people improved themselves thanks to it.

Second thing about parachute, wind value might be random but they don't bring significant luck. Not to mention, when 3.8 eventually arrives, we'll have option to set a default wind value, which will remove this luck factor for good.

Now, the other luck factor in the current Big RR schemes are bananas. There are certain times (for example during a long fly or a fall) where throwing a nana right at optimal time is not really possible. For that reason, I always use no nana 40 sec scheme in funners and always suggest to play this way in competitive games. And your idea is replace it with a f@#!in zook? A weapon that adds even more luck factor since it's affected by wind. Completely ridiculous.

Quote from: Kaleu on August 03, 2019, 12:35 AM
My opinion is, there's more skill and strategy involving rope knocking (high fall pile, hide etc), than trying to don't lose your turn playing with half speed plus great chances to end up panicking with a self hit zook lol.
This statement is limited to battle rope schemes. Racing schemes are argueable.

I completely agree, parachute is definitely a must for battle rope schemes.

Quote from: WTF-8 on August 03, 2019, 06:30 AM
I'd miss lazy falls

Yes, I also sometimes do this deliberately to save time. ;D

Quote from: Triad on August 03, 2019, 12:49 PM
No offense Kradie, and don't take it personally, but in my personal opinion Big ZaR RR is the dumbest ZaR variant or Big RR variant I have ever seen yet.

So Big RR is almost completely luck free scheme, right? There are two minor things preventing it to be 100% luck free. One of them is parachute. Since wind value is always random, it adds a certain luck element. But there are some stuff to consider: First, it becomes a more welcoming scheme for beginners. They can fail but if they have parachute they still have chance to keep going. I mean if you are good, people won't catch you just because they got a parachute. You know Sensei's TT Big RR Challies, right? I think they are great way to compete Big RR offline and really welcomes everyone. They have parachute AND ldet module, where your turn never ends even if you fail. Does that make noobs beat pros? Nope. Just take a look at winners (https://www.tus-wa.com/challenges/challenge-755/) in challenges list. Nonentity won every challenge he participated. Parachute or even ldet won't change the outcome. So why make things difficult for beginners in a game that is already losing player base every year? I personally improved my roping mostly by playing big rr with ldet like sensei's scheme back in the day. We had similar challenges with an identical scheme in UC site. Since it was beginner friendly, it attracted more people and those people improved themselves thanks to it.

Second thing about parachute, wind value might be random but they don't bring significant luck. Not to mention, when 3.8 eventually arrives, we'll have option to set a default wind value, which will remove this luck factor for good.

Now, the other luck factor in the current Big RR schemes are bananas. There are certain times (for example during a long fly or a fall) where throwing a nana right at optimal time is not really possible. For that reason, I always use no nana 40 sec scheme in funners and always suggest to play this way in competitive games. And your idea is replace it with a f@#!in zook? A weapon that adds even more luck factor since it's affected by wind. Completely ridiculous.

Quote from: Kaleu on August 03, 2019, 12:35 AM
My opinion is, there's more skill and strategy involving rope knocking (high fall pile, hide etc), than trying to don't lose your turn playing with half speed plus great chances to end up panicking with a self hit zook lol.
This statement is limited to battle rope schemes. Racing schemes are argueable.

I completely agree, parachute is definitely a must for battle rope schemes.

Quote from: WTF-8 on August 03, 2019, 06:30 AM
I'd miss lazy falls

Yes, I also sometimes do this deliberately to save time. ;D

I didn't take this personal at all quite the contrary, I am glad :)

Anyhow. I have nothing against parachute in rope schemes, what I am saying they behaves as a trainer mode, typical for beginners, and therefor can diminish the punishment. If there is no brutal punishment, then it opens up for reckless and inconsequential roping. If you commit numerous mistakes with parachute, then automatically you become accustomed to it. But with a couple of mistakes with no parachute, will without a doubt hardwire your brain to avoid past mistakes, and Improve your roping. You will become more comfortable, and confident, and therefore introducing swift and efficient roping.

Beginners will get used to this, I had many beginners in my games of zar and big zar rr. Many of them have failed countless of time but yet they come back and improved. Majority of my games are funner, and mistakes are welcomed, but that's how everyone get better.

People are getting more aware of big zar rr, because it is interesting because it has no parachute. The bazooka makes it interesting as well, because it is all about timing when to release it. It gives you 5 second retreat, and it is up to each player to decide if it is worth the risk to fire the bazooka or not, depending on the wind and surrounding areas. The handling of the bazooka is also a skill in itself. When to fire, how to fire, how to avoid and claim those 5 seconds. You got used to it, and you just need keep calm and not panic.

I see your point regarding no chute. Honestly, no chute itself doesn't sound that bad to me since it doesn't have any other purpose in Big RR other than saving your ass. But I disagree with your points regarding play styles. Playing risky isn't really bad. It will force you to rope more faster and after awhile you'll start doing less mistakes. Having no chute may force players to always err on the side of caution and force them to have a  slower run overall. The fake safety of chute (since it doesn't always save you) give players an opportunity to leave their comfort zone. But I guess individual experiences may vary and not everyone might have the same experience as I did, so I give you the benefit of doubt.

I guess my main beef is with zooks. I am just not really comfortable with the idea of zooks. I always preferred Big RR to be pure racing like TTRR, with no weapons. Obviously using zook efficiently requires skills, I just don't think it should have a place in Big RR, or any weapon for that matter.

Quote from: Kradie on August 03, 2019, 02:41 PM
I didn't take this personal at all quite the contrary, I am glad :)

I am glad too. :) Keep the discussions flowing.

About parachute, what Kaleu said is spot on and I completely agree with.

@Triad when you said there are 2 lucky things in Big RR I was like wtf?? But then you mentioned bananas and I thought aaaaaaaaaah, cuz I never use bananas in the scheme, personally I think having bananas in Big RR is a complete waste of time for the reasons you already mentioned, i'm quite happy to say it was me who got the 40s no banana thing going some years ago :)  :D I may not have been the 1st to do it, but certainly spread the word and made it catch on!

Besides it's a race, you don't see real life olympic runners stop to toss a banana or change their shoes 90% through the race, so why the f**k did anyone put it in racing schemes to begin with? It's beyond me  :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

I mean, I guess whoever done it was thinking of the relay race or something, but the annoying thing about Big RR with bananas is not being able to drop the banana while you are not attached to rope, I wouldn't have such an issue with it if you could do that then it would more realistically resemble the relay race to me.

Man I miss playing Big RR, can't wait to get a house sorted again and get my stuff from storage...

Young Blaster from #ag had best comment regarding this.
Parachute in rope schemes is like helmet when on motorcycle.

So, Kradie, when you feel reckless - do it alone on race track and don't involve others. Especially newcomers.
Who knows how many we lost cause you didn't give chute to those poor ppl.

Quote from: Sensei on August 03, 2019, 06:45 PM
Young Blaster from #ag had best comment regarding this.
Parachute in rope schemes is like helmet when on motorcycle.

So, Kradie, when you feel reckless - do it alone on race track and don't involve others. Especially newcomers.
Who knows how many we lost cause you didn't give chute to those poor ppl.

I will involve as many as I please, and there's nothing you can do to stop me.

This is a 2D video game, not a motorcycle race in real life. That's like comparing oranges and apples, and simulation and real life. In Worms Armageddon, you don't get physically hurt, only your mental state if you can't Improve.

Also I would like to emphasize that you can get full and same speed without parachute. You just need to get used to it.

Well, you can actually compare parachute in roping to wearing a helmet when driving a motorbike, it's safety with the main point being, if you crash/fall, you can still survive versus no protection = dead, and pretty much one of the main goals in life is to stay alive, and likewise for roping, stay alive. So yeah, it's a very useful and comparative analogy.

I understand where you are coming from Kradie, it truly is hardcore to play without parachute and a testament to high skills, but in general another reason why parachute is a godsend is that this game is infamous for having screen tearing/lag spikes etc, so having that backup safety net for something that is out of your control is very fair.

Try this instead, make a list of pros & cons for having parachute, i'm pretty sure the pros will outweigh the cons.

Actually, limited resources is one of the things that make games fun, but there has to be a balance. We know how when we start to use cheats in games, they become boring fast because of unlimited resources despite initial burst of excitement.

So removing something like parachute could be indeed beneficial to gameplay because it forces you to utilize your "limited mental resources" ( :) ) in order to succeed, but it's not exact science. People who got used to parachute are biased and there's no way to eliminate that to say for sure.

*checks who is the topic starter*
*sees Kradie*

go play ZaR and leave us, peasants, alone plz
if you want to flex on us how good you are at roping then play no chute in the league, you do you

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 04, 2019, 05:06 AM
Well, you can actually compare parachute in roping to wearing a helmet when driving a motorbike, it's safety with the main point being, if you crash/fall, you can still survive versus no protection = dead, and pretty much one of the main goals in life is to stay alive, and likewise for roping, stay alive. So yeah, it's a very useful and comparative analogy.

I understand where you are coming from Kradie, it truly is hardcore to play without parachute and a testament to high skills, but in general another reason why parachute is a godsend is that this game is infamous for having screen tearing/lag spikes etc, so having that backup safety net for something that is out of your control is very fair.

Try this instead, make a list of pros & cons for having parachute, i'm pretty sure the pros will outweigh the cons.

Video games is a form of escapism that allows us to shape whatever reality within the boundaries of the game. Any person with a sane mind knows that riding a motorbike without a helmet is foolish. If you fall off from the bike, it might as well be your last thing you will ever do. EXCEPT in a video game, where real life is at pause, and you can do whatever in the virtual world. If there was a racing game in which you could simply remove the helmet, would I do it? Sure! Would I jump out of an airplane high up in the skies? Hell yes! Why? It is fun! I've done this many times in GTA. Would I go outside start punching, kicking people, shoot up a strip club and kill everyone? Hell no. Do you see where I am getting at? Throw away your moral ethics, in video game it is all about having a good time! 
So having no parachute is good, it teaches you discipline, and it can be just as fun with or without parachute. When I go back to say roper, I feel ashamed over myself, and embarrassed by others, because of the freaking parachute keeps activating on every turn.

My bias is eliminated, I just happen to favor no parachute. 

Great idea, Kradie, this would make the league even more unavailable for newcomers ;)

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 12:43 PMAny person with a sane mind knows that riding a motorbike without a helmet is foolish.

Any person with a sane mind knows that racing a worm without a parachute is foolish.

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 12:43 PM
Throw away your moral ethics, in video game it is all about having a good time! 

If you truly believed in "throwing away moral ethics" then it wouldn't matter if someone used parachute or not, you wouldn't even be discussing it because you wouldn't care.

You would rope without parachute yet play cautious and carefully, in a similar display of danger than people who play with parachute but rope incredibly fast doing tricks and showing off.

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 12:43 PM
So having no parachute is good, it teaches you discipline

Sure, having no parachute is good for you, but to the extremely superior majority of people who enjoy roping schemes having no parachute is extremely bad.

Having a parachute is a superior training tool, than having no parachute, there are many reasons why, one of the most obvious being it's faster to get back into action.

If I had to wait several turns everytime I fell without parachute back in the day, i'd seriously have told this game to f**k off.

Having no parachute is fun as a gimmick, such as in ZaR rope schemes, but to be taken seriously in official League schemes, especially in the prime of competitive roping, you're having a laugh mate, it's been discussed more than you will ever realize.

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 12:43 PM
I feel ashamed over myself, and embarrassed by others, because of the freaking parachute keeps activating on every turn

That's because you were a noob, everyone was when they 1st started, but if there was no parachute, it would have taken you longer to get better.

QuoteAny person with a sane mind knows that racing a worm without a parachute is foolish.

It's a video game, there's no physical injury applied, but perhaps in the mental mind if one can't endure the punishment.

QuoteYou would rope without parachute yet play cautious and carefully, in a similar display of danger than people who play with parachute but rope incredibly fast doing tricks and showing off.

You can rope incredible fast just as you would with or without parachute. In WxW you have to be fast anyway.

QuoteSure, having no parachute is good for you, but to the extremely superior majority of people who enjoy roping schemes having no parachute is extremely bad.

Having a parachute is a superior training tool, than having no parachute, there are many reasons why, one of the most obvious being it's faster to get back into action.

If I had to wait several turns everytime I fell without parachute back in the day, i'd seriously have told this game to f**k off.

You say that parachute is a superior training tool, it almost sound like it's a cheat, an unfair advantage vs no parachute. If you f@#! up, that's on YOU, not anyone else's.

QuoteThat's because you were a noob, everyone was when they 1st started, but if there was no parachute, it would have taken you longer to get better.

That's not even documented, and I can say with certainty I had players Improved with no parachute. If you f@#! up, you tell yourself to avoid the mistake. It is like with children, they remember when they are talked to. If there are no consequences of their action, there will be mistakes again. It is like with no parachute, you remember your fail and avoid it.

Ok, for starters, can you make up your mind about comparing a game to real life, because you seem to be saying it's not plausible one minute, then saying it's ok the next:

Quote from: Kradie on August 03, 2019, 07:01 PM
This is a 2D video game, not a motorcycle race in real life. That's like comparing oranges and apples, and simulation and real life. In Worms Armageddon, you don't get physically hurt, only your mental state if you can't Improve.

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 02:07 PM
It is like with children, they remember when they are talked to. If there are no consequences of their action, there will be mistakes again

So it's ok to compare to real life, as long as it's Kradie who does it? (Also, look at the very next quote...)

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 02:07 PM
It's a video game, there's no physical injury applied, but perhaps in the mental mind if one can't endure the punishment.

The physical injury is irrelevant, we are talking about a safety net that is more useful having it, than not having it.

Which is why the motorbike helmet comparison is extremely useful, and to add further to my explanation before.

Driving a motorcycle, you could be driving flawlessly, but then some maniac not paying attention can drive into you,  it's out of your control, so having a helmet, can save your life.

Racing a worm, your physical and mental abilities could be flawless, your timing spot on, but your game lags a bit because of hardware/software issues, it's out of your control, so using parachute, can prevent you from falling and losing your turn, or sometimes even worse, falling in water and dying.

Also, it is entirely possible, and more likely to make human error, nobody is perfect and asking anyone to be flawless is quite frankly, dumb.

So the biker could lose focus, and crash, the player could lose focus, and fall.

Again, real life physical damage is not the point here, the only relevant part of this comparison is the safety net.

For you to say the extremely obvious and condescending point about real life physical damage not being the same as losing your turn in a game, is quite frankly ridiculous, considering everybody is obviously f**king aware of this so it doesn't even need to be said.

I don't see anybody sitting there seriously pondering:

(https://i.imgur.com/jYTMduq.png)

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 02:07 PM
You can rope incredible fast just as you would with or without parachute. In WxW you have to be fast anyway.

Again, you are stating the obvious, and ignoring the point of having a parachute.

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 02:07 PM
You say that parachute is a superior training tool, it almost sound like it's a cheat, an unfair advantage vs no parachute. If you f@#! up, that's on YOU, not anyone else's.

It almost sounds like it's a cheat? An unfair advantage vs no parachute?

It's not cheating, because it's legal within the rules, and available for everyone.

It's not an unfair advantage because again, it's available for everyone equally.

It's that simple, don't try and argue this because those are facts based on the English language and definitions of the word, don't even waste your time trying.

Also, i've explained why there can be things out of your control, if you choose to believe something else, that's your choice, have fun with that.

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 02:07 PM
That's not even documented, and I can say with certainty I had players Improved with no parachute.

I never said players can't improve without parachute, I said it's faster to learn with parachute, and if it was faster & better to learn without parachute, then that's how everybody would be doing it, but they don't.

Edit - I'm not saying roping without parachute is bad, it's commendable, it's way more risky making it more impressive overall, but parachute is definitely a cornerstone of the roping world, and taking parachute out of roping schemes would more than likely be a deterrent to new players.

My point is that; in video games, there are no permanent death, you can try as many times you like. But in real life, if you faint on a motorbike WITHOUT helmet, the chances of survival is LESS. Because AGAIN you can fail many times without parachute, and still be able to pick yourself up and win.

You talk about parachute as safety net, but in reality it is a crutch, a reminder that you can fail. It is OK to fail, no shame in it, but my point is that you will be more aware and disciplined with no parachute. Almost said ''No protection''. Then I guess someone would come along with a real life comparison of having sex.
I can also make comparison if others do, that's why the children analogy is good.  Take responsibility and learn from your mistakes. Same goes without parachute. IT is so basic and I don't get why I have to explain this.

I appreciate your acknowledgement and compliment about being skilled with no parachute. Because I think people that do rope without parachute are to be commended, and should be more recognized.

But as I said, I am not dismissing parachute, I am not asking to have it removed and deleted from history. I am asking the community what they are comfortable with, with or without parachute. I made my case, I have given my opinions. If you don't agree, fine, but that doesn't make us enemies. 

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 05:13 PM
My point is that; in video games, there are no permanent death, you can try as many times you like.

Well, that's not true, because if you are playing a competitive match, you can't try as many times as you like, and also there are limits on how many games you can play as well.

And, I know this is far-fetched, but there is no evidence one way or another to say what happens after we die, so saying permanent death could very well be wrong as far as we know, but, because you are using "permanent death" as an excuse to argue against using parachute, i'll use the unproven theoretical science that death is not the final curtain.

I mean, since we're using irrelevant arguements here...

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 05:13 PM
You talk about parachute as safety net, but in reality it is a crutch, a reminder that you can fail. It is OK to fail, no shame in it, but my point is that you will be more aware and disciplined with no parachute. Almost said ''No protection''.

So people climbing mountains should do it without ropes, sports players should play without padding, boxers should fight barefisted, nobody should take any precautions so they can show how big their balls are? There is no shame in failing...

And yes, i'm well aware 1 risks "real death/damage" and the other "digital death/damage", but since you are ignoring my point, i'll ignore yours too.

If using parachute is a crutch, then so is editing schemes to our own tastes, so is buying better equipment to play the game than what was available back in 1999, using keychangers, finger roll, 2 hands, bigger screens, different resolutions than the original release, being able to save replays instead of being able to trust fellow humans, having max power ropes with infinite shots, the list could go on and on and on...

I think you are over exaggerating a bit too much. Editing and playing schemes is normal thing to do, and part of the game. Sure you can argue that ''So is having parachute'' and to that I would say yes, but to that particular scheme that requires it. Should a man with a broken foot use a crutch? Yeah or a wheelchair. Point is, you are capable of roping without parachute.  But people won't, because they're biased and stubborn.

Buying a new keyboard, mouse, whatever, can indeed help you get better. It can provide better quality of life, pleasure, a short dopamine drive, but it's not a crutch or cheat because it is available. Sure you could say ''Well parachute is available'' BUT only to the schemes that requires it. IT seems like many people are dependent on this safety net because they don't trust themselves enough.  There is totally lack of responsibility, and therefore eliminating consequences of what could happened.

When I said permanent death, I was referring to a stupid real life scenario not in a video game.

But come on man, only a fool would climb a mountain in real life without a rope.  Let alone standing on a bike in full motion.
https://youtu.be/sI7HLtMfq34

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 06:22 PM
I think you are over exaggerating a bit too much.

Well why not? You are. You are making mountains out of molehills.

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 06:22 PM
Editing and playing schemes is normal thing to do, and part of the game. Sure you can argue that ''So is having parachute'' and to that I would say yes

Exactly.

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 06:22 PM
Buying a new keyboard, mouse, whatever, can indeed help you get better. It can provide better quality of life, pleasure, a short dopamine drive, but it's not a crutch or cheat because it is available. Sure you could say ''Well parachute is available'

Exactly, and I did.

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 06:22 PM
BUT only to the schemes that requires it.

Then we could say, do we really need to even bother playing Worms Armageddon in the 1st place?

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 06:22 PM
Point is, you are capable of roping without parachute.  But people won't, because they're biased and stubborn.

You could say this about almost anything, you are capable of doing "x" without "x" and just replace x with pretty much anything...

We could play Elite without superweapons.

We could play Shopper without Rope and use Jetpack instead.

We could make BnG, just G and call it OG.

They are not biased and stubborn, that opinion itself is biased and stubborn actually, for example, humans don't have to eat food to enjoy the taste, but we do, are they biased and stubborn as well?

Quote from: Kradie on August 04, 2019, 06:22 PM
IT seems like many people are dependent on this safety net because they don't trust themselves enough.  There is totally lack of responsibility, and therefore eliminating consequences of what could happened.

I trust myself more than I trust technology.

However you've completely ignored valid points i've made about parachute being a safety net for more than just human error reasons over and over again, so I won't bother arguing this point anymore because you are being unreasonable.

My mistake was to indulge myself a conversation with you that is long overdue. 

I have presented my case clearly with added inquires to support it.
I have countered replies and sentences that seemed reasonable.

I am not exaggerating though. You keep adding layers over layers until things aren't clear anymore.

I have no bias whether there is parachute or not.
I am not stubborn, we see things differently.

Also, lag is a common problems for all gamers alike. Competitive or not, you don't seem me complaining about it.

But Kradie, you keep changing things...

1st it's ridiculous to compare real life, and a game, then it's ok to compare real life and a game because you were doing it.

You called other people stubborn for seeing things differently and not wanting to change their opinion, so in what world does that make you not stubborn for doing the exact same thing?

You are, by definition, exaggerating, here is a list of things you've said:

"It totally feels like trainer mode is enabled holding your hand''

"If you can't rope with full speed with no parachute, then you surely lack confidence in your own ability"

"It is kind of sad, that people are so reliant on this trainer mode it is embarrassing"

"Beginners will get used to this, I had many beginners in my games of zar and big zar rr. Many of them have failed countless of time but yet they come back and improved."

^^ I have to point out, they improve not because there is parachute or no parachute, they improve because they keep trying, and that's how "practise" generally works, they become more tuned with hand-eye coordination and the controls of the rope. It's not rocket science, and it's definitely not because of ZaR  :D :D :D

"You say that parachute is a superior training tool, it almost sound like it's a cheat, an unfair advantage vs no parachute. If you f@#! up, that's on YOU, not anyone else's. "

"You talk about parachute as safety net, but in reality it is a crutch," <--- Funny enough, you are using a REAL LIFE comparison again, after your speech about apples & oranges...

"IT seems like many people are dependent on this safety net because they don't trust themselves enough."

But then this, really makes me laugh:

"I have no bias whether there is parachute or not. "

^^ When literally your 1st post said:

''Why do we need parachute in popular rope schemes? It totally feels like trainer mode is enabled holding your hand''

Yeah, no bias indeed... :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

There they go.

You are clearly not fit to discuss this particular matter. You keep twisting my words so it can fit your own understanding. I have said my piece, you keep misinterpreting it, and I can't help you with that.

I advice you to lean back and reflect. That's it for now.

Twisting your words? I quoted exactly what you said.

So now we've reached the point where i've used your own words against you, and you can't handle that.

If you want to make ridiculous assumptions, give up, and then in a more polite fashion, say the equivalent of "screw you guys, i'm going home"(that's a South Park reference in case you don't understand), that's fine by me.

If your purpose was truly just to find out what people prefer, chute or no chute, you would have simply asked that and said no more, and so here we are.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 05, 2019, 07:29 AM
Twisting your words? I quoted exactly what you said.

So now we've reached the point where i've used your own words against you, and you can't handle that.

If you want to make ridiculous assumptions, give up, and then in a more polite fashion, say the equivalent of "screw you guys, i'm going home"(that's a South Park reference in case you don't understand), that's fine by me.

If your purpose was truly just to find out what people prefer, chute or no chute, you would have simply asked that and said no more, and so here we are.

This topic was to find out whether people prefer parachute in rope based schemes or not. It is also about why, and  to have a discussion based on that. Then someone said ''Parachute in rope schemes is like helmet when on motorcycle.''- A real life comparison. So when I started to implement my own comparison, it is not ok? Roping with parachute, is like fences when playing bowling.

So yes, here we are, because you are building a narrative of your own design. Yet, you aren't willing to listen so I will try again to explain. I think having NO parachute teaches discipline. Your focus level increases with NO parachute. You will be more aware with NO parachute. You can be super fast and do freestyle with NO parachute. You can still have the same amount of fun with NO parachute.
But with parachute, you plant a seed in your brain, and you will remember that you are SAFE with parachute. While you are FEARLESS without parachute.

I am not biased. I have roped with parachute more than most people here, and still there are rare instances where I do have parachute in roping schemes like Warmer. People who have NOT fought hard will NEVER know discipline, and I have overcome roping without parachute. It sounds like I am contradicting myself, doesn't it? I like Coca Cola Zero more than regular Coke, but that doesn't mean I avoid it all together. It is rare instances where consume it.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
So when I started to implement my own comparison, it is not ok?

It would be ok, if you hadn't said it wasn't ok, then proceeded to do it yourself anyway. This is the reason we're stuck in this loop, and i'll keep going until you admit it, or shut-up.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
I think having NO parachute teaches discipline.

That's fine, because you said you think 1st, you didn't present it as a fact, that's ok.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
Your focus level increases with NO parachute.

Bullsh*t, your focus level will increase, by simply focusing more, with or without parachute, stop talking sh*t Kradie.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
You will be more aware with NO parachute.

More aware of what? The Bolivian Navy on manoeuvres in the South Pacific? You can't even 100% complete a sentence...

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
You can be super fast and do freestyle with NO parachute.

Yep, you are right there, but the same applies if you said "You can be super fast and do freestyle with parachute".

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
You can still have the same amount of fun with NO parachute.

You can, but also, you may not.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
But with parachute, you plant a seed in your brain, and you will remember that you are SAFE with parachute. While you are FEARLESS without parachute.

Bullsh*t, you are not safe with parachute, you are safer with parachute, but you are not safe, you can still fall, you can still end turn, you can still fail.

You're talking sh*t again Kradie.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
I am not biased.

Yes you are.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
I have roped with parachute more than most people here

No you haven't.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
People who have NOT fought hard will NEVER know discipline

Playing Worms Armageddon is not fighting hard.

You're talking sh*t again. Stop talking sh*t Kradie.

Since you obviously struggle to understand what discipline means:

(https://i.imgur.com/UPKUomg.png)

Therefor, you can be extremely disciplined with or without parachute in Worms Armageddon.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
I have overcome roping without parachute.

Well done, you learned something anyone else can do but most choose not to because nobody gives a f**k, bravo!

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
It sounds like I am contradicting myself, doesn't it?

No, it makes you sound like you are talking sh*t again Kradie.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 05, 2019, 06:11 PM

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
So when I started to implement my own comparison, it is not ok?

It would be ok, if you hadn't said it wasn't ok, then proceeded to do it yourself anyway. This is the reason we're stuck in this loop, and i'll keep going until you admit it, or shut-up.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
I think having NO parachute teaches discipline.

That's fine, because you said you think 1st, you didn't present it as a fact, that's ok.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
Your focus level increases with NO parachute.

Bullsh*t, your focus level will increase, by simply focusing more, with or without parachute, stop talking sh*t Kradie.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
You will be more aware with NO parachute.

More aware of what? The Bolivian Navy on manoeuvres in the South Pacific? You can't even 100% complete a sentence...

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
You can be super fast and do freestyle with NO parachute.

Yep, you are right there, but the same applies if you said "You can be super fast and do freestyle with parachute".

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
You can still have the same amount of fun with NO parachute.

You can, but also, you may not.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
But with parachute, you plant a seed in your brain, and you will remember that you are SAFE with parachute. While you are FEARLESS without parachute.

Bullsh*t, you are not safe with parachute, you are safer with parachute, but you are not safe, you can still fall, you can still end turn, you can still fail.

You're talking sh*t again Kradie.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
I am not biased.

Yes you are.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
I have roped with parachute more than most people here

No you haven't.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
People who have NOT fought hard will NEVER know discipline

Playing Worms Armageddon is not fighting hard.

You're talking sh*t again. Stop talking sh*t Kradie.

Since you obviously struggle to understand what discipline means:

(https://i.imgur.com/UPKUomg.png)

Therefor, you can be extremely disciplined with or without parachute in Worms Armageddon.

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
I have overcome roping without parachute.

Well done, you learned something anyone else can do but most choose not to because nobody gives a f**k, bravo!

Quote from: Kradie on August 05, 2019, 01:42 PM
It sounds like I am contradicting myself, doesn't it?

No, it makes you sound like you are talking sh*t again Kradie.

1. Then it wouldn't be ok of you to start addressing it. I figured why the hell not since everyone else did.

2. I still believe it is best method of discipline and for hardcore gameplay.

3. There is no shit here Komodo. You want to focus more to avoid navigational error.

4. More aware of your maneuvering skills Komodo.

5. It is more noteworthy without parachute and freestyle.

6. Yep.

7. Still without parachute, you will be more careful by default, yet have super agility. But with parachute, you are automatically accustomed with the thought parachute will be there to save you. This is where many skilled players falls victim with their petty lines ''I miss chute''. How about master without it?

8. Nope. We can say yes and no all day long.

9. 7 years of roping.

10. If you wish not to improve, go easy and have fun without taking responsibility. Otherwise, man up and take ownership of yourself.

11. Majority don't, because they aren't capable of sustaining the required mastering of no parachute. IT is embarrassing, less experienced players play just fine without parachute.

#1 - Kradie, are you even aware, that before you even complained about someone else using a real life comparison, that you used one in your very 1st post?

"It totally feels like trainer mode is enabled holding your hand''

This is why i'm arguing with you so strongly because you either don't realize how much you are f**king up your posts, or you are deliberately trolling, either way i'm here to help you realize your mistakes, or go back and fourth until you get bored.

#2 - That's ok, you can believe whatever you want, because that isn't a fact it's an opinion.

#3 - Perhaps the conditions you need to be under in order to focus properly are different from the average person, have you considered that?

#4 - That's an outrageous claim, with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

#5 - Again, you are trying to state things as facts when they are merely opinions, most people pay attention to what happens while they are roping, not what happens when they make mistakes, either way when you make a mistake it doesn't look good with or without parachute so your point here doesn't really apply to most people, and that's what is bothering me, you are trying to push your personal beliefs and opinions on other people.

#7 - You ask "How about master without it?" and the simple answer is because it saves time and you can learn how to rope quicker without having to worry about wasting time waiting on your next turn.

#9 - Yeah I don't think you have roped with parachute more than most people here, but this one is hard to prove so we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

#10 -  If you wish not to improve? I don't mean to sound rude, but you are not even considered a great roper anyway, maybe roping without parachute has even held you back and you don't even realize it ;D

#11 - Again, you are trying to pass off an opinion as a fact, you are accusing the majority of people who have learned roping in this game of not having the capability of mastering rope without parachute. Not only is this f**king insane, because you have no evidence whatsoever to back this up, nobody has even bothered to try because it's f**king pointless and almost no one cares.

Edit - I should number these actually or it will get confusing.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 05, 2019, 08:51 PM
#4 - That's an outrageous claim, with no evidence whatsoever to back it up.

Think about it, while you navigate on rope, chances are (No idea of %, depend on skills, scenario etc) you can accidentally hit/slide on whatever terrain and objects that you try to maneuver through & around. This can result a turn to be saved with parachute, while with no parachute, it will not be there. But there are no study on this to support this claim, it will likely never be documented.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 05, 2019, 08:51 PM
You ask "How about master without it?" and the simple answer is because it saves time and you can learn how to rope quicker without having to worry about wasting time waiting on your next turn.

Yeah I don't think you have roped with parachute more than most people here, but this one is hard to prove so we'll just have to agree to disagree here.

I mastered it pretty quickly, and so have many others. Why should it be difficult for a veteran? Oh you probably meant beginners.

All opinions are subjective, but if it sounds like I pass my own opinion as facts, that's because I believe it. Just as you believe in your own opinion.

I did think about it, that's why I said it's an outrageous claim...

You are claiming, that without parachute, you will be more aware of your maneuvering skills, which is bollux, because the rope physics stay the same with or without parachute, and you can still see everything that you will be using to connect rope to to maneuver with.

Where do you even get these ideas???

So, wait, are you suggesting people learn how to rope without parachute? Or people who already know how to rope should just do it without parachute?

Because either way I don't see the point in arguing this topic, if they want to play ZaR for example, a scheme without parachute, they will just do it, and get better naturally with practise.

And when they play Roper/WxW/Shopper which is good to have parachute for more reasons than just a safety net, it's good to have parachute to be able to knock worms around at the right time.

Also in Big RR, which I guess could be done without parachute, but still you can generally get better faster because you aren't losing time when you fall, so you get to keep going, and when the mistake is made with or without parachute, it's still obvious where the mistake was made, and you will learn from your mistakes.

Edit - I just saw your edit.

I don't have a problem with opinions, just make sure to word it so if it's a personal belief, it's obvious, and not presented as a fact.

Then it's like, yeah, that guy likes that, cool, instead of, woah, that guys telling me what to think...

Kradie has never been a revelant roper or player, why would anyone waste time discussing what is the better way to improve roping with a nobody lol.

Well, I don't mean any offense to Kradie, but I agree that he isn't exactly regarded as a famous roper or anything, I can't say he's bad, but I can't say he's great either, i'd say he's about average in skill from what i've seen.

However, I believe in education, and logically speaking I don't agree with a lot of the things he has said, so I feel like it's our duty in a way to protect something we are passionate about.

I don't want anyone else being mislead about the practical uses and advantages of parachute, I don't want people to think they have a better chance of becoming a good roper by avoiding the use of parachute. I don't want anybody to feel weak, or pathetic for doing something that has been globally accepted as normal for the past 20 years.

So while I realize there are some people around here who don't like the way I talk about things, I find that anyone who is really interested in learning, will pay attention to both sides of a debate and be able to decide for themselves, because let's be honest, where else are they going to find this information but dedicated websites?

I try my best to think about different ways to talk about things and explain them, which is why I might go on and on and on about certain subjects, but with different approaches using different examples, information, facts, opinions and statistics etc.

But hey, at least i'm not asking people to like follow and subscribe at the beginning of every post like you would see on Youtube :D  ;D

Also, I hope you are doing well lalo  :)

QuoteYou are claiming, that without parachute, you will be more aware of your maneuvering skills, which is bollux, because the rope physics stay the same with or without parachute, and you can still see everything that you will be using to connect rope to to maneuver with.

Where do you even get these ideas???

So, wait, are you suggesting people learn how to rope without parachute? Or people who already know how to rope should just do it without parachute?

Because either way I don't see the point in arguing this topic, if they want to play ZaR for example, a scheme without parachute, they will just do it, and get better naturally with practise.

As far as I know, when I maneuver through various paths and obstacles of all forms and sizes, I am constantly aware of the fact that there is no parachute to bail me out due to a slip-up. But same can be said about having parachute too, but with no parachute, it adds extra layer.

People can learn to rope with or without parachute. Without parachute is more hardcore.

QuoteAlso in Big RR, which I guess could be done without parachute, but still you can generally get better faster because you aren't losing time when you fall, so you get to keep going, and when the mistake is made with or without parachute, it's still obvious where the mistake was made, and you will learn from your mistakes.

Yes I can get by that too. But, when you fail from a climb, and your turn ends, it can add as an extra punch to the face, telling you to do it better. But with parachute, it deploys all the time, and it can give a false sense of accomplishment. Sure you could get better, but if you switch to no parachute, the painstakingly mistake will be more obvious to consider and analyze.

Quote from: lalo on August 05, 2019, 10:52 PM
Kradie has never been a revelant roper or player, why would anyone waste time discussing what is the better way to improve roping with a nobody lol.

That's funny, because I think majority of veterans and experienced players here are nobodies. Here is why. People like Lalo sees themselves as aristocrats on high horses that walks above and on people without knowing them. How? Well think about it, do we see any of legacy & skilled players mingle with the commoners on Wormnet? Do we see them just play funners with new people that they never met?  No. Because they're more busy counting their league points, and judging everyone else. If someone were to take the time to appreciate the current state of WA, then WA could thrive more. But no one here seem to care so much, instead they bath in their own egotistical filth and self-righteousness.

So seeing Komodo even bothering discussing here with me is commendable and he have earned some of my respect because of this. Just because we don't agree on everything, doesn't mean we have to be enemies. That's just how it is.

You might say that I am not relevant, and experienced, but that's something I would expect from coming from majority of you that have had couple of games with me. Some of you I have never had a decent conversation with.

Quote from: Kradie on August 06, 2019, 08:22 AM
As far as I know, when I maneuver through various paths and obstacles of all forms and sizes, I am constantly aware of the fact that there is no parachute to bail me out due to a slip-up. But same can be said about having parachute too, but with no parachute, it adds extra layer.

Let's talk about Big RR and TTRR which are the main roping schemes where you don't take advantage of knocking with parachute(even though the following applies to all rope schemes).

With or without parachute, you are constantly aware, especially when competing against the best players in the world where every second counts, that if you make 1 mistake you can lose the game.

With or without parachute, people are always trying their hardest not to fail.

Quote from: Kradie on August 06, 2019, 08:22 AM
People can learn to rope with or without parachute. Without parachute is more hardcore.

I'd prefer to say learning to rope without parachute is more needlessly punishing, less efficient and generally takes longer to master rope.

History is proof of that in itself, it's 20 years Kradie, if roping without parachute was so groundbreaking, so awesome, so incredibly impressive then everyone would be doing it, think about that.

Quote from: Kradie on August 06, 2019, 08:22 AM
when you fail from a climb, and your turn ends, it can add as an extra punch to the face, telling you to do it better. But with parachute, it deploys all the time, and it can give a false sense of accomplishment.

As i've already said, the biggest difference between learning to rope with and without parachute, is time.

You are not using your time wisely if you aren't using parachute to learn how to rope, you are wasting your time.

Once you are good enough to rope around confidently, then, if you fancy showing a display of confidence, you can remove the parachute, but I still think it's wise to keep parachute just in the event of a lag spike or screen tear etc.

Quote from: lalo on August 05, 2019, 10:52 PM
Kradie has never been a revelant roper or player, why would anyone waste time discussing what is the better way to improve roping with a nobody lol.

Quote from: Anubis on July 29, 2019, 09:48 PM
Ah, the good old you have to be a cook to judge food. I can boil eggs!

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 06, 2019, 09:02 AM

Quote from: Kradie on August 06, 2019, 08:22 AM
As far as I know, when I maneuver through various paths and obstacles of all forms and sizes, I am constantly aware of the fact that there is no parachute to bail me out due to a slip-up. But same can be said about having parachute too, but with no parachute, it adds extra layer.

Let's talk about Big RR and TTRR which are the main roping schemes where you don't take advantage of knocking with parachute(even though the following applies to all rope schemes).

With or without parachute, you are constantly aware, especially when competing against the best players in the world where every second counts, that if you make 1 mistake you can lose the game.

With or without parachute, people are always trying their hardest not to fail.

True, but again, without parachute it can add an extra layer of discipline not to fail.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 06, 2019, 09:02 AM
I'd prefer to say learning to rope without parachute is more needlessly punishing, less efficient and generally takes longer to master rope.

History is proof of that in itself, it's 20 years Kradie, if roping without parachute was so groundbreaking, so awesome, so incredibly impressive then everyone would be doing it, think about that.

20 years with parachute, gives it a tremendous advantage against no parachute. Parachute is simply embedded into the brain of players, that it makes it extremely difficult for them to consider no parachute option. Sure you could say ''Well Kradie, if people LOVE NO parachute, just disable it in hostingbuddy''. It ain't that easy as I explained it. Plus parachute has a monopoly.
Groundbreaking? When I made Zar it was looked at groundbreaking. Even people enjoy big rr without parachute. They have told me that they found it more interesting.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 06, 2019, 09:02 AM
As i've already said, the biggest difference between learning to rope with and without parachute, is time.

You are not using your time wisely if you aren't using parachute to learn how to rope, you are wasting your time.

Once you are good enough to rope around confidently, then, if you fancy showing a display of confidence, you can remove the parachute, but I still think it's wise to keep parachute just in the event of a lag spike or screen tear etc.

I think that's a bit subjective viewpoint actually.  It haven't been documented and proven. Your only source of statistics would be the 20 year with parachute, which itself is biased & one sided as f@#!.

Sorry for late reply I had a date last night.

I don't see the added discipline where the 2 end results of falling with and without parachute are:

Fail and lose, and fail and lose.

It is not a "tremendous advantage", it's just the way things are, because it's widely considered better to use parachute, the point of saying the past 20 years is because the vastly superior general consensus proves using parachute is favoured, and it has nothing to do with pretty much anything you are saying.

It has been documented and proven actually, we have replays, experience, and most of us, common sense.

YOUR opinion is "one sided as f**k" because you seem to be the only one on these forums who feels that way, I haven't saw a single person other than you say anything like you have, not just on these forums, but online, ever.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 07, 2019, 01:59 PM
Sorry for late reply I had a date last night.

I don't see the added discipline where the 2 end results of falling with and without parachute are:

Fail and lose, and fail and lose.

It is not a "tremendous advantage", it's just the way things are, because it's widely considered better to use parachute, the point of saying the past 20 years is because the vastly superior general consensus proves using parachute is favoured, and it has nothing to do with pretty much anything you are saying.

It has been documented and proven actually, we have replays, experience, and most of us, common sense.

YOUR opinion is "one sided as f**k" because you seem to be the only one on these forums who feels that way, I haven't saw a single person other than you say anything like you have, not just on these forums, but online, ever.

If you are doing a pump from a wall in a roper or rope race, chances are you CAN hit the wall and causes a fall. If you have parachute, it will save you, if not, you FALL. Precision, accurate handling of rope is key to eliminate such accident. I am not claiming you have to be nonhuman to do 100% perfect turns, but no parachute will make it more interesting.. Because it is your fault if you fall or slide of an edge.

It is widely acknowledged and accepted because there haven't been anything to oppose it. So you are saying it have been proven, with parachute only. That is one sided. No one thought of having no parachute in schemes in the past. Perhaps some tried but gave up. Can you really prove anything without the other? Only proof that you have is that there are 20 years of only parachute, replays and a few zar games and arguments here.

Quote from: Kradie on August 07, 2019, 05:16 PM
If you are doing a pump from a wall in a roper or rope race, chances are you CAN hit the wall and causes a fall. If you have parachute, it will save you, if not, you FALL.

For starters, doing pumps in an actual game, is extremely risky, with or without parachute.

Even with parachute most fails,  do actually result in losing total control of worm and your turn ending, because they are so fast and hit against the walls at such tremendous speed,

Moves like pumps, are one of the harder moves to master in roping, and a parachute isn't going to be much help at all if you fail.

If you actually had as much experience as some of us, and played with as many other Ropers as some of us, you might realize this.

Quote from: Kradie on August 07, 2019, 05:16 PM
but no parachute will make it more interesting.. Because it is your fault if you fall or slide of an edge.

I really disagree with you here, I think the move itself makes it interesting, it has nothing to do with using parachute or not.

Quote from: Kradie on August 07, 2019, 05:16 PM
It is widely acknowledged and accepted because there haven't been anything to oppose it. So you are saying it have been proven, with parachute only. That is one sided.

You are wrong, the option of not using parachute has always existed, therefor there has always been an option to oppose using parachute.

So yes, it has been proven, that's a fact, not an opinion.

Quote from: Kradie on August 07, 2019, 05:16 PM
No one thought of having no parachute in schemes in the past.

Quote from: Kradie on August 07, 2019, 05:16 PM
Perhaps some tried but gave up.

Never saw someone contradict themselves so quickly before  :D :D :D

So what you are saying is, no one thought of having no parachute in schemes, but they did and gave up?

Roping without parachute has always existed, you are nowhere near the 1st to do it.

It's been discussed in the past, but obviously nobody was interested in it.

Why do you think using no parachute is a new idea? Even ZaR Roper isn't an original creation, it's a combination of things that have been done before, people have been doing ropers without parachute since Worms 2, let alone Worms Armageddon.

Quote from: Kradie on August 07, 2019, 05:16 PM
Can you really prove anything without the other? Only proof that you have is that there are 20 years of only parachute, replays and a few zar games and arguments here.

I am confident enough to bet my life on it, but on the other hand it's not important enough to spend my time because it would take a lot of time going through 15+ years of replays, websites and history, talking to other people and interviewing them about their experiences and going through their replays as well.

I would only do that sort of thing if I had a huge incentive to do it, not just to prove something to you, that to most other people, is already obvious.

Also, I would need something of an incentive for the other people I would question because more than likely they would say "I don't care" when I try to talk to them about it lol.

QuoteFor starters, doing pumps in an actual game, is extremely risky, with or without parachute.

Even with parachute most fails,  do actually result in losing total control of worm and your turn ending, because they are so fast and hit against the walls at such tremendous speed,

Moves like pumps, are one of the harder moves to master in roping, and a parachute isn't going to be much help at all if you fail.

If you actually had as much experience as some of us, and played with as many other Ropers as some of us, you might realize this.

To do a fast kick/pump from the bottom wall in a roper, is very useful to bring yourself quickly up to the upper level of the map. There's not much reasons to do many executives firing of rope to go up. IF you can't trust your experience enough without falling, you aren't very experienced.

QuoteI really disagree with you here, I think the move itself makes it interesting, it has nothing to do with using parachute or not.

And the move itself makes it impressive and yet interesting with no parachute.

QuoteWhy do you think using no parachute is a new idea? Even ZaR Roper isn't an original creation, it's a combination of things that have been done before, people have been doing ropers without parachute since Worms 2, let alone Worms Armageddon.

People have been doing ropers without parachute since W2 and WA? Well why haven't I heard anything about that? I've been roping since 2003 and back then there were no roping without parachute, only a few games with bazooka and that was considered pro.

These combination are things that makes ZaR popular and intuitive for many! Many people that plays ZaR schemes without parachute loves the idea having no parachute. But what do you know? You don't really play the game.

QuoteI am confident enough to bet my life on it, but on the other hand it's not important enough to spend my time because it would take a lot of time going through 15+ years of replays, websites and history, talking to other people and interviewing them about their experiences and going through their replays as well.

I would only do that sort of thing if I had a huge incentive to do it, not just to prove something to you, that to most other people, is already obvious.

Also, I would need something of an incentive for the other people I would question because more than likely they would say "I don't care" when I try to talk to them about it lol.

So there is no proof then. So don't present it as fact.

I prefer parachute. Coz some knocks are not possible without it, also it needs even more skill for pressing f8 in time. Interesting that you can take good advantage if you will do swoosh in big vertical tunnel and use chute in good moment in TTRR.

Parachute helps in 10% cases of fail, i just kick my worm by the roof or bottom.. so it even doesnt matter.. will be i more aware or not hah.


Kradie, i know you hate parachute IRL and scared try jump someday xD

Quote from: Rogi on August 07, 2019, 11:33 PM
Kradie, i know you hate parachute IRL and scared try jump someday xD

Lmao! Yeah my home is a private jet that flies thousands of meters above sea level. Once in a while another jet comes with food supplies and fuel. So the only way down is to jump with NO parachute.  :D

Kradie, who do you think you are talking to by the way?

Do you think you are talking to someone with zero experience of roping?

I hate to sound egotistical but i'm vastly more experienced and skilled in roping than you are, I have played with and against most of the best players that have ever existed in this game, so why are you attempting to educate me on things I knew about before you even started playing this game?

I know exactly how useful a pump is, I was doing them consistently before you even played this game.

Even with the best Ropers of all time, pumps are still a risk, with or without parachute, nobody is perfect.

I need to ask, why do you keep saying things, that everybody is already aware of?

You think you are saying these things to support your arguement, but anyone with any roping experience knows otherwise.

As for doing ropers without parachute since Worms 2, and longer than you've played WA for, you haven't heard about it, because you either didn't associate with the right people, you weren't paying attention, or you don't remember.

People did play games without parachute in the scheme, but it has never been a League scheme, and it most definitely has never been popular, but yes, people enjoy doing it from time to time.

What you and I consider popular are 2 very different things, it's like me saying Darts was a popular scheme, which in at it's peak, saw more activity than ZaR ever did, and I still wouldn't call Darts popular, not even remotely.

Kradie, there is proof, I already explained that, it's just too time consuming for me to collect the evidence for the sole purpose of proving it to you, it's not worth my time, and even if I did, you would probably still deny it even if the evidence slapped you in the face(which seems to be happening a lot in this thread already).

Collecting all that data would literally take months, i'm not going to do that to prove one person wrong, I already know i'm right, I don't even need to prove you wrong lol, I just enjoy debating and discussing things i'm passionate about, helping to educate others, and as I said before, I don't want other people feeling bad about using parachute because of your opinions.

And I don't play ZaR because I find it too gimmicky, it's not as good as other roping schemes in my opinion, but I did still support ZaR to be used in TRL, I did want to play, but life took an unexpected turn for me while the season was active.

QuoteKradie, who do you think you are speaking to by the way?

Do you think you are speaking to someone with zero experience of roping?

I hate to sound egotistical but i'm vastly more experienced and skilled in roping than you are, I have played with and against most of the best players that have ever existed in this game, so why are you attempting to educate me on things I knew about before you even started playing this game?

Whom I be speaking to? To someone who is only talk and no play. Even if you did play, you would probably excuse your inferior roping because of absence of the game. You can tell me ''Well Kradie, I have replays and league statistics to back me up''. Sure I can get by that. But then you are proving something to a guy who only plays funners and rarely partake in serious and competitive games. Sure I don't try to lose, and I do Improve as time goes on. But then you can say ''Well, you Improve more in competitive play''.- Sure, but that's not how I role. I don't need yours and anyone else's blessing to validate my skills. I know enough when it comes to roping.

QuoteI need to ask, why do you keep saying things, that everybody is already aware of?

You think you are saying these things to support your arguement, but anyone with any roping experience knows otherwise.

Obviously not everybody is aware of it, that's why I am pointing things out in my posts.

QuoteAs for doing ropers without parachute since Worms 2, and longer than you've played WA for, you haven't heard about it, because you either didn't associate with the right people, you weren't paying attention, or you don't remember.

People did play games without parachute in the scheme, but it has never been a League scheme, and it most definitely has never been popular, but yes, people enjoy doing it from time to time.

Oh I payed attention, and I did play with a broad range of ropers.  It should have been a league scheme tbh.

QuoteWhat you and I consider popular are 2 very different things, it's like me saying Darts was a popular scheme, which in at it's peak, saw more activity than ZaR ever did, and I still wouldn't call Darts popular, not even remotely.

ZaR was never part of the league system so you have the advantage of making your unfair claim. ZaR have the most members, all consisting of passionate ropers, and fan of ZaR scheme(s). So technically, ZaR is more popular than Darts and is still played today. With no parachute ;)

QuoteCollecting all that data would literally take months, i'm not going to do that to prove one person wrong, I already know i'm right, I don't even need to prove you wrong lol, I just enjoy debating and discussing things i'm passionate about, helping to educate others, and as I said before, I don't want other people feeling bad about using parachute because of your opinions.

Despite the overwhelming poll results, I still stand tall and firmly. I believe I am right, as much as you believe your opinions are right. We can throw punches at each other as much as we want, but the results are likely to be the same. People should be able to decide for themselves if they are OK with using no parachute in popular rope schemes. It is not about changing the league, and schemes. It is what you are comfortable roping without it or not, and are there benefits to either options etc.

QuoteAnd I don't play ZaR because I find it too gimmicky, it's not as good as other roping schemes in my opinion, but I did still support ZaR to be used in TRL, I did want to play, but life took an unexpected turn for me while the season was active.

Gimmicky doesn't necessary have to be a bad thing. Also new people wouldn't know or care unless if e.g you started to play and yell from the roof tops about how gimmicky and horrible ZaR is :P And I appreciate your support anyway.

All talk and no play? I still consider myself active in Worms Armageddon, i've said in a few other threads, right now i'm going through a rough patch in my life, my desk, my monitor, my keyboard, amongst all my other possessions are all in storage right now because I have nowhere to keep them, it's been like this since February for me.

So I can only play on my laptop, and it's not as often as I would if I had all my equipment.

Inferior roping lol, you're literally delusional ;D F**k man I almost choked on my Irn Bru laughing at that f**k me LOL!

But i'm glad you admit you only play funners and rarely partake in serious and competitive games, which everyone already knows.

It's pretty funny stuff, you going round trying to claim you are some big shot roper who is hardcore because you don't use parachute, and it's the true test of skill etc, and here is the kicker, you very rarely even play serious competitive games, so who gives a f**k if you fall without parachute in a ZaR funner cuz it doesn't mean sh*t anyway LOL!!!

Playing funners requires no risk whatsoever, so even without parachute it's still f**king meaningless lol, it's hilarious after all the talk about "mentally speaking, because you don't have parachute you have this extra awareness blah blah blah" and you don't even know what it's like to compete at the highest level of this game for the glory and respect of other players, and sometimes prizes, which takes more confidence than playing a funner without parachute lol.

I am not here to get into a debate about which scheme is more popular Darts or ZaR, the point is you claim ZaR is popular, it isn't, you could say it has a cult following, which is true.

You can believe you are right all you want, it's delusional, and you are wasting your time, but if that makes you happy then who cares lol. The fact stands there is a long history of websites, leagues, players, replays, tutorials, even plain logic, showing the overwhelming majority of players learn how to rope quicker using parachute rather than roping without using parachute at all.

I never said being gimmicky was a bad thing, I just said ZaR isn't as good as other roping schemes in my opinion(notice I said not as good, I didn't say it isn't good at all).

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 08, 2019, 03:19 AM
I am not here to get into a debate

(https://media.giphy.com/media/iurIHLBxms7UQ/giphy.gif)

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 08, 2019, 03:19 AMI am not here to get into a debate

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/023/021/e02e5ffb5f980cd8262cf7f0ae00a4a9_press-x-to-doubt-memes-memesuper-la-noire-doubt-meme_419-238.png)

QuoteBut i'm glad you admit you only play funners and rarely partake in serious and competitive games, which everyone already knows.

It's pretty funny stuff, you going round trying to claim you are some big shot roper who is hardcore because you don't use parachute, and it's the true test of skill etc, and here is the kicker, you very rarely even play serious competitive games, so who gives a f**k if you fall without parachute in a ZaR funner cuz it doesn't mean sh*t anyway LOL!!!

Playing funners requires no risk whatsoever, so even without parachute it's still f**king meaningless lol, it's hilarious after all the talk about "mentally speaking, because you don't have parachute you have this extra awareness blah blah blah" and you don't even know what it's like to compete at the highest level of this game for the glory and respect of other players, and sometimes prizes, which takes more confidence than playing a funner without parachute lol.

Admit that I play funners? Everyone knows that I am not into the league. I wasn't in some denial but the point was you can still earn recognition and respect same as you would do by playing the league. Apparently it is you that is more irrelevant compared to me and here is why. Since 2014, I have barely witnessed any sort of activity from you, and if you were active, you were playing with your own secluded dart group which isn't really noteworthy these days. You have no foothold in todays WA, you don't know how ZaR does it there. I am confident that people are more aware of ZaR than Darts nowadays.

You have just insulted a lot of people on WA with your pride and your ego. People there don't care much for competitive games, it is more about having a good time together. I seriously doubt people wants to do their worst just because it isn't a serious game. Why have a PvP game then? Most people obviously wants to TRY to win, and TRY to get better. I have seen many people gotten better over time by just playing funners.

I don't need to compete for glory and respect from other players. Many of these ''other aristocrats'' aren't worth my time. A lot of their behavior like yours now, are to condescending and arrogant. It is very unbecoming, and embarrassing.

I can safely say I am more capable roper because of no parachute. I guess you rely on it too much to rope with confidence,

/thread

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/599/900/c3c.gif)

Ah, well done, you stalked this thread until you found an opportunity by taking an unfinished part of a sentence and made it look like something else.

Well done you!  Your nursery teacher would be proud :D

Anyway, moving on.

Quote from: Kradie on August 08, 2019, 10:19 AM
Since 2014, I have barely witnessed any sort of activity from you

You must be blind then.

Quote from: Kradie on August 08, 2019, 10:19 AM
You have no foothold in todays WA

Nobody does.

Quote from: Kradie on August 08, 2019, 10:19 AM
I am confident that people are more aware of ZaR than Darts nowadays.

Sure, even though there are less people around, ok.

Quote from: Kradie on August 08, 2019, 10:19 AM
You have just insulted a lot of people on WA with your pride and your ego.

Offence is taken not given, and you are the only one who said they feel insulted by that, you don't get to decide for other people.

Quote from: Kradie on August 08, 2019, 10:19 AM
I seriously doubt people wants to do their worst just because it isn't a serious game.

It's still riskless, it's "for fun" instead of for competition to prove who is best, you have nothing to lose.

Quote from: Kradie on August 08, 2019, 10:19 AM
I have seen many people gotten better over time by just playing funners.

Yep, but that isn't the point.

Quote from: Kradie on August 08, 2019, 10:19 AM
I don't need to compete for glory and respect from other players.

If that is true, shut up then.

Quote from: Kradie on August 08, 2019, 10:19 AM
I can safely say I am more capable roper because of no parachute. I guess you rely on it too much to rope with confidence,

You are quite an interesting subject that actually believes these things, I find your mental gymnastics fascinating! But alas! They still aren't true :)

I am not blind. It's the truth.

Of course, I have a firm foothold in the online community of WA.

I never said I was insulted. But the way you presented your narrowed view seemed rather degrading and condescending.

Nothing to lose? Sure there is. It all depends on the mood of the game and the people that are there. E.g, at times I try to provoke serious play and people get serious, and at the end of the way win or lose, we all laugh about it. Also, every game, competitive or not, every move is a risk. It isn't without risk, otherwise it wouldn't be a risk to play the game.

Komodo, I am not in this thread to strive and get your blessings of being a capable roper. I am here to discuss our disagreements and your disjointed view on things. It is good for the reader to see both sides of the coin.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 08, 2019, 02:30 PM
Ah, well done, you stalked this thread until you found an opportunity by taking an unfinished part of a sentence and made it look like something else.

Well done you!  Your nursery teacher would be proud :D

Thx man.. Actually wanted to get involved when you said "sorry for late reply, i had date".
You killed me there already, but somehow managed to control it..
Although, the last one was too much.  :D

@Kradie

Correction, you THINK it's the truth, it doesn't make it so.

A firm foothold in the community lol, this isn't command & conquer Kradie :D

If you want to provoke serious play and get people serious, then make a League, make something to actually play for,

I love how easily you contradict yourself also, saying it's no risk to use parachute, then turning round and saying every game, every move is a risk, I don't even need to debate with you anymore because you just destroyed your own arguements yourself :D

@Sensei - I'm glad you are finally being open about reading threads even though in the past you've claimed "nobody reads those big long posts", confirming what I always suspected lol.

It's pretty funny you find manners amusing lol.

If you find fun and happiness in taking things out of context I won't complain lol, as long as you're having fun dude :)

It's nice to see you laughing and joking instead of being negative.

QuoteIf you want to provoke serious play and get people serious, then make a League, make something to actually play for,

You don't realize how clueless you are.  You can play serious among friends, I have done it before. There is no need to play a league to show who is the best.

Sensei is only reading these posts because he's not a fan of me. No secret there. So he thrives heavily on your futile effort in proving that you are right, because Komodo, it doesn't make it true ;) But I am glad your blind sense of truth brings you two closer.

So to sum up the pros and cons with and without parachute

With parachute
Safety net, like diapers, you fall safe on your ass.
Allows for quick recovery and ignore fails (Komodo thinks the latter is wrong, not according to Kradie).
Allows for freestyle combined with rope and parachute maneuvering.

Without parachute
Increased focus and awareness of ones roping and maneuvering across various paths and obstacles.
Allows for extreme punishment if one is not paying enough attention.
Allows for risky high speed roping combined with freestyle.

That should be the end of it. I have tried my best to explain. If I were to explain any further, I would need to make a picture book for dummies.

Quote from: Kradie on August 08, 2019, 05:01 PM
Sensei is only reading these posts because he's not a fan of me. No secret there.

I happen to have free time during afternoons and not knowing what to do with it so decided to check if you guys wrote anything smart last few pages. Don't really have anything against anyone around here. So don't know where you're going with that.

All in all, as Kory said, this thread needed lock while ago.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/bfbc51c2c732690799794ce841c9ba00/tenor.gif)

Quote from: Sensei on August 08, 2019, 05:14 PM
All in all, as Kory said, this thread needed lock while ago.

This thread does not need locked at all, nobody is threatening or harming anyone else, Kradie and I are having a civilized debate, if you don't like this thread, then stop watching it.

As much we disagree with each other, at least neither of us are losing our temper and throwing insults and personal attacks at each other, I honestly can't say that for many people around here.

Quote from: Kradie on August 08, 2019, 05:01 PM
You can play serious among friends

You can, and I play lots of funners with people, but there is still no pressure if you lose a funner because nothing is on the line, nobody is keeping record, there are no statistics to show who is performing better.

Quote from: Kradie on August 08, 2019, 05:01 PM
With parachute
Safety net, like diapers, you fall safe on your ass.
Allows for quick recovery and ignore fails (Komodo thinks the latter is wrong, not according to Kradie).
Allows for freestyle combined with rope and parachute maneuvering.

Having a parachute is a safety net, but it's not as much of a safety net as playing funners as opposed to competitive recorded matches with many players involved.

Most situations where parachute is actually deployed because of a failure, you need your opponent to make a mistake as well or chances are you won't catch up, you seem to think parachute makes you invincible, it does not.

Quote from: Kradie on August 08, 2019, 05:01 PM
Without parachute
Increased focus and awareness of ones roping and maneuvering across various paths and obstacles.
Allows for extreme punishment if one is not paying enough attention.
Allows for risky high speed roping combined with freestyle.

There is no increased focus and awareness of ones roping and maneuvering across various paths and obstacles, it can however make you choose to rope safer, those are 2 completely different things you fail to comprehend.

If one is not paying attention, no parachute is going to save you, however falling without parachute does indeed punish you harsher, nobody has ever argued that.

Not having parachute isn't what allows high speed roping combined with freestyle, having the game installed on a working computer with a good enough keyboard, playing any scheme with ninja rope, is what allows risky high speed roping combined with freestyle.

no

NO

NO

NO

NO

NO

NO

IF you remove an element that is supposed to save you, it becomes a risky endeavour that can promote confidence. If one cannot trust their own ability without the risk factor, then there is no valor and confidence in their roping. I play against people in funners that plays serious and with valor. You must realize that Komodo.

QuoteMost situations where parachute is actually deployed because of a failure, you need your opponent to make a mistake as well or chances are you won't catch up, you seem to think parachute makes you invincible, it does not.

Parachute makes you cast responsibilities aside and rope risk free, while without parachute you can do the same but with skills and confidence.  IF you fail that is on you, and if you can't catch up, then you have a formidable foe that outperforms you. It is your job to accumulate the necessary dexterity to match or surpass the suppressing opponent.

I don't get what's your point, Kradie. According to you, Parachute is supposed to save myself from every small mistake, and same applies to my opponent. Doesn't it put us in the same skill level? How am I given any kind of advantage? What are you trying to prove here? No offense, but I don't think that removing parachute makes you or me a better player, it's quite the contrary, it removes a great essence of the game: Tactics involving Parachute. Most of the times it's meant to be used for it which requires much more thinking and smart choices, so considering that, I would never exchange a vast levels of possibilities (with chute) for instant punishment (why though?). No sense, not worth it.

Edit: I have nothing against you or your schemes, I like you and we have played many, many zars and big zars rr togheter, and I probably never made fun of you or your scheme creations, even personally disliking it a little (and you know it), but all of this (topic+posts) reached its peak, sincerely you are almost making a huge embarassement of yourself...
This is the longest post I've written in a while, lol.

Have you ever heard about rope knocking from high levels? Or changing worm direction using the side wall?

Quote from: Tomi on August 11, 2019, 06:49 AM
Have you ever heard about rope knocking from high levels? Or changing worm direction using the side wall?

Of course I have, I used these tactics plenty of times in this decade and the previous. I do think parachute is necessary in some schemes such as Shopper. But when you remove the parachute, it becomes another game mode, that might have you rope differently at first. The absence of parachute might surely uncomfortable at first, but it is very rewarding once you feel more at ease without parachute. The rope knocking can be done without parachute, it just needs height calculating and timing. So again, two modes, which one are you most OK with? Parachute or without? It is not about ''Remove all parachute from popular rope schemes?''.

There are certainly smart choices to be made with parachute. But there are also smart choices handling rope without parachute. E.g, you want to knock your opponent down from a hiding spot, but you can't. So you are left with positioning your worm and focus on visual cue and time your attack. Attack can be done with bazooka,, grenade, and whatever have you.

The majority on TUS have said no, they are not OK with no parachute, there is no eluding that fact. Although, most of my games people don't really complain, they just accept and adjust. They do their best with what is given. It is becoming a trend and widely accepted in WA.

I don't feel embarrassed, I am simply sticking up to what I believe, just as you are. ;)

Quote from: Kradie on August 09, 2019, 04:07 PM
IF you remove an element that is supposed to save you, it becomes a risky endeavour that can promote confidence.

Any roping with or without parachute is a "risky endeavour".

Nobody, in their right mind, would argue that roping without parachute doesn't come without risk, because it does.

But what is ridiculous is you saying it promotes confidence in such a way as if roping with parachute is easy, like people who use parachute have no skill or confidence at all, and they play without any risk at all, it's completely nuts...

Quote from: Kradie on August 09, 2019, 04:07 PM
If one cannot trust their own ability without the risk factor, then there is no valor and confidence in their roping.

Using parachute or not using parachute, doesn't change the physics of the game at all, you are saying people who rope with parachute have no valor or confidence because you believe there is no risk at all.

How many games could we compare this situation to?

It's like saying you have no confidence in your skills at super mario if you use mushrooms and other items.

Or racing without brakes in racing games, or playing through any game without being allowed to save at all.

You could think of literally hundreds of thousands of comparisons of games in the same sense you are thinking of Worms Armageddon roping without parachute.

If we could all rope like TAS, this wouldn't be a problem, but we are humans, playing on machines built by humans, which means there will always be flaws and mistakes, it's like you expect people to be perfect which is incredibly ignorant.

There is no more or no less skill involved in roping with or without parachute.

Quote from: Kradie on August 09, 2019, 04:07 PM
I play against people in funners that plays serious and with valor. You must realize that Komodo.

I play serious in funners too, I don't play carelessly, I always try my best, granted sometimes I piss about but for the majority of games I play seriously, that doesn't mean there is any risk involved, it's just a fun game where making mistakes don't matter because nothing is on the line, other than going "Oops! I made a mistake", and maybe getting frustrated at your own shortcomings, it's not a big deal at all.

If you were playing for money, or playing for the glory that winning proves you to be the best player, I would bet my life you would feel a lot more pressure and even nervous in certain situations.

You are playing funners, regardless whether you play serious, the end result is meaningless when nobody cares about collecting results or reporting games in a League with standings, that people look at and compare themselves to others etc.

Quote from: Kradie on August 09, 2019, 04:07 PM
Parachute makes you cast responsibilities aside and rope risk free

No it doesn't, there is nothing you can ever do or say to prove that.

Everything you do there is a risk.

Even just jumping up and connecting rope has a bit of risk to it, that you will time it wrong and mess up your start.

Quote from: Kradie on August 11, 2019, 01:18 PM
The absence of parachute might surely uncomfortable at first, but it is very rewarding once you feel more at ease without parachute.

Perhaps for you, it feels rewarding, but for others, it feels like they are losing a very fun feature of the game, putting more restrictions on what is possible in the game.

Quote from: Kradie on August 11, 2019, 01:18 PM
The rope knocking can be done without parachute, it just needs height calculating and timing.

A lot of rope knocking is impossible without parachute, and some of it would need TAS to pull it off in the way for example, their worm falls over the edge but yours doesn't, no human is that good, at least not consistently.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 11, 2019, 02:20 PM

Quote from: Kradie on August 09, 2019, 04:07 PM
IF you remove an element that is supposed to save you, it becomes a risky endeavour that can promote confidence.

Any roping with or without parachute is a "risky endeavour".

Nobody, in their right mind, would argue that roping without parachute doesn't come without risk, because it does.

But what is ridiculous is you saying it promotes confidence in such a way as if roping with parachute is easy, like people who use parachute have no skill or confidence at all, and they play without any risk at all, it's completely nuts...

Quote from: Kradie on August 09, 2019, 04:07 PM
If one cannot trust their own ability without the risk factor, then there is no valor and confidence in their roping.

Using parachute or not using parachute, doesn't change the physics of the game at all, you are saying people who rope with parachute have no valor or confidence because you believe there is no risk at all.

How many games could we compare this situation to?

It's like saying you have no confidence in your skills at super mario if you use mushrooms and other items.

Or racing without brakes in racing games, or playing through any game without being allowed to save at all.

You could think of literally hundreds of thousands of comparisons of games in the same sense you are thinking of Worms Armageddon roping without parachute.

If we could all rope like TAS, this wouldn't be a problem, but we are humans, playing on machines built by humans, which means there will always be flaws and mistakes, it's like you expect people to be perfect which is incredibly ignorant.

There is no more or no less skill involved in roping with or without parachute.

Quote from: Kradie on August 09, 2019, 04:07 PM
I play against people in funners that plays serious and with valor. You must realize that Komodo.

I play serious in funners too, I don't play carelessly, I always try my best, granted sometimes I piss about but for the majority of games I play seriously, that doesn't mean there is any risk involved, it's just a fun game where making mistakes don't matter because nothing is on the line, other than going "Oops! I made a mistake", and maybe getting frustrated at your own shortcomings, it's not a big deal at all.

If you were playing for money, or playing for the glory that winning proves you to be the best player, I would bet my life you would feel a lot more pressure and even nervous in certain situations.

You are playing funners, regardless whether you play serious, the end result is meaningless when nobody cares about collecting results or reporting games in a League with standings, that people look at and compare themselves to others etc.

Quote from: Kradie on August 09, 2019, 04:07 PM
Parachute makes you cast responsibilities aside and rope risk free

No it doesn't, there is nothing you can ever do or say to prove that.

Everything you do there is a risk.

Even just jumping up and connecting rope has a bit of risk to it, that you will time it wrong and mess up your start.

Quote from: Kradie on August 11, 2019, 01:18 PM
The absence of parachute might surely uncomfortable at first, but it is very rewarding once you feel more at ease without parachute.

Perhaps for you, it feels rewarding, but for others, it feels like they are losing a very fun feature of the game, putting more restrictions on what is possible in the game.

Quote from: Kradie on August 11, 2019, 01:18 PM
The rope knocking can be done without parachute, it just needs height calculating and timing.

A lot of rope knocking is impossible without parachute, and some of it would need TAS to pull it off in the way for example, their worm falls over the edge but yours doesn't, no human is that good, at least not consistently.

1. It is not, the added risk factor boost focus and confidence

2. There is risk without parachute.

3. There's only funners, only a few competitive games here on tus.

4. I am glad you brought other games up. It is more commendable to not use mushroom and fire in Super Mario. Here is why; While I am a casual player, a pro speed runner need not to use items if it is in the category they run in. There are many categories in speedruns, Small Mario, Any%, & 100% run. So in a sense, no parachute is its own category that is more hardcore.

5. In funners I can play real bad, like you won't recognize it is me because my roping is so wobbly and unstable that it makes it so embarrassing. These moments I do not like, and anyone can have bad games and days of roping or whatever. So I try my best or just take time off. Anyone can play bad regardless if it is serious or not. But I also agree that if it is competitive, it adds extra layer of pressure, just like with no parachute.

6. Everything is a risk, but no parachute = added risk factor.

7. I have seen rope knocking been pulled of from edges, We are only humans, we are not perfect, we can do errors in anything we do. But with parachute it just pats you on the back and says it's ok.

1. So you are saying there is no risk, if you use parachute?

2. There is risk with parachute as well.

3. You aren't even making a point here so, moving on...

4. Well that's ok, if you think(think being the keyword here), using no parachute makes you hardcore and the best thing since sliced bread, I guess you are entitled to think that lol.

5. I don't know what having a bad day has to do with it, but ok.

6. At least you now admit that it's still risky playing with parachute, we're finally getting somewhere.

7. So what, you are having conversations with parachute now? Does a voice in your head say "You're a good boy Kradie"?

Do you believe in ghosts too? Wtf is going on here?

Also, not sure why you can't just stick to quotes *hmm*.

IT IS MORE RISKY WITHOUT PARACHUTE.

WITH PARACHUTE IT IS LESS RISKY.

Indeed, but you've changed your tune.

You were saying before that using parachute had no risk at all.

But at least you've corrected that statement now, thanks.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 11, 2019, 10:41 PM
You were saying before that using parachute had no risk at all.

But at least you've corrected that statement now, thanks.

Komodo! You are finally making some progress, thank you! <3

Now that you finally understand, we can continue. ;D

So, to explain as simple as possible, I will do it very light.

No Parachute = More RISK
More risk = More courage
Courage = Makes confidence

What say you Mr Komodo?

I honestly think you are one of the most delusional people i've ever spoke to in my life(online).

But at least you are happy, and i'm glad you finally changed your words about parachute so they weren't lies anymore.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 12, 2019, 05:27 PM
I honestly think you are one of the most delusional people i've ever spoke to in my life(online).

But at least you are happy, and i'm glad you finally changed your words about parachute so they weren't lies anymore.

They weren't lies, everyone knows that without parachute, the risk is greater.

Perhaps everything that was formed and read were greatly misinterpreted.

-

Quote from: Kradie on August 12, 2019, 06:06 PM
They weren't lies, everyone knows that without parachute, the risk is greater.

You were saying earlier roping with parachute has no risk, among many other crazy things.

If you had just cut out all the bullsh*t earlier, this whole conversation wouldn't even have happened.

Now though, you've filtered out all the lies, opinions, and exaggerations, so that the final statement is actually a true observation rather than a lonely personal subjective agenda.

Next time though, if you wish to get results from a poll without any hassle, just ask the question without giving your opinion which basically makes other people out to be morons, weak, feeble etc.

Quotelonely personal subjective agenda.

My little friend. There is none of this preposterous agenda you proposed. As I said, I got a better foothold in WA than you nowadays, and you are not relevant as once you thought you were. Here is why. Many people embrace the idea of no parachute, and they do this without bias and clinging to the past.  There is nothing anyone can do to stop me hosting games, showing and learning that parachute is not everything to the game.

Sure as SiR J said, punishing for the beginners, but the reward will surely flourish as one master the gratification of no parachute.  They look at experienced, and they could cling to the thought of being as them. Why would they not be? Parachute teaches them that failure is fine.

But I do not expect you to understand Komodo.

Who even talks like that? "I have a bigger foothold in WA than you". I don't care if I am relevant or not, just try to enjoy myself.

You sound like you get off on the idea of trying to be popular and in control, I always done stuff like Darts and BnG etc because I was addicted to it and enjoyed trying to make it better lol.

Many people embrace the idea of no parachute? You sound like a delusional god preacher trying to convince people ZaR is salvation and no parachute is our saviour  :D ;D :D

I already got what I came here for, but I can't stop myself from replying because your posts are legit entertaining, weird people have always sparked my curiosity, your posts are completely bonkers but you aren't doing anyone any harm, at least you aren't boring  :D

My belief is that most people rope like pussies when there's no chute. The game becomes one of mechanical A to B transportation and attacking. Risks from elevated fall damage and no chute are too great for anything extracurricular. Best suited for league games where people already rope like pussies. In my experience funners rarely produce the same level of intensity and competition as league games.

RichUK and Godmax have a foothold of sorts too, but that isn't necessarily congruent with the amount of respect they hold. Zar is a minor iteration of an existing scheme, nothing more. Not a social movement, religion or grand invention. Come back down to earth man, put down the spork and be rational. The "zar is the greatest thing ever" schtick is played out and lame.

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 12, 2019, 08:31 PM
Who even talks like that? "I have a bigger foothold in WA than you". I don't care if I am relevant or not, just try to enjoy myself.

You sound like you get off on the idea of trying to be popular and in control, I always done stuff like Darts and BnG etc because I was addicted to it and enjoyed trying to make it better lol.

Many people embrace the idea of no parachute? You sound like a delusional god preacher trying to convince people ZaR is salvation and no parachute is our saviour  :D ;D :D

I already got what I came here for, but I can't stop myself from replying because your posts are legit entertaining, weird people have always sparked my curiosity, your posts are completely bonkers but you aren't doing anyone any harm, at least you aren't boring  :D

Good, because facts don't care about your feelings.

You keep using the word delusional, in fact you are the one who is. I have explained why no parachute is better etc. You can't stand that I am right, and that your version of reality isn't. All you can do is to giggle and be arrogant which is very low in my opinion.

QuoteMy belief is that most people rope like pussies when there's no chute. The game becomes one of mechanical A to B transportation and attacking. Risks from elevated fall damage and no chute are too great for anything extracurricular. Best suited for league games where people already rope like pussies. In my experience funners rarely produce the same level of intensity and competition as league games.

So your belief is that people are pussies that are ok roping with no parachute. Nice insult to people there.

Roper,  Shopper and TTRR are already A to B transportation. It has nothing to do if the chute is there or not.

Extracurricular? That is indeed your belief but as well bias. New and current players don't care of legacy players think. Many don't play the league.

Again, no parachute = More Risk = Pressure. In league games the pressure and risk doubles.

ZaR is a roping community, dedicated for ZAR Scheme(s). Like ZaR Roper and BIG ZAR RR. Which is quite popular I might add. Why don't you show some respect? You were once a member, you thought it was fun and fast paced. Now you are just throwing around insults? Not just to me, but to people.

All through this thread you've dogmatically repeated your flawed premises. It's easy to rope like a coward with no chute, choosing only easy angles and known trajectories. It's the difference between painting a barn and painting artwork though. Roper is garbage without some recklessness. Zar is too punitive so everyone ropes like pussies.

Quote from: j0e on August 13, 2019, 07:22 PM
All through this thread you've dogmatically repeated your faulty premises, spork in hand. You clearly aren't here to discuss with an open mind - so I'm done for now.

You are in error. But I salute your surrender, it was a risky endeavour of you to challenge reality.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 06:20 PM
Good, because facts don't care about your feelings.

You would deny facts if they slapped you in the face.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 06:20 PM
You keep using the word delusional, in fact you are the one who is.

I have explained why no parachute is better etc.

No, you have explained why it's different, neither is "better" than the other, because it's up to each individual to make the decision what is best for themselves.

You do not get to decide what is better for all humanity, which is why you are delusional thinking that you can.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 06:20 PM
So your belief is that people are pussies that are ok roping with no parachute. Nice insult to people there.

Interesting, earlier in this post you were calling people weak, lacking confidence etc because they rope with parachute.

Not only are you delusional, you are a hypocrite as well.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 06:20 PM
ZaR is a roping community, dedicated for ZAR Scheme(s). Like ZaR Roper and BIG ZAR RR. Which is quite popular I might add.

Humans, are a mere blip on the grand scale of the universe, we are such a small part of everything that will ever exist, it scares a lot of people, they cannot accept that humans are not the most important thing in the universe.

ZaR is like Humans, and Worms Armageddon is the universe, just a tiny blip in the grand scale of things, this doesn't mean we/ZaR are useless, just not as important as some would like to believe.

As long as you have fun, and you are happy, you shouldn't care about how "popular" ZaR is, as long as you have a small cult following that enjoy it with you, and you all have fun, that's all that matters.

You are having delusions of grandeur about a scheme Kradie, it's not healthy, trust me, i've been there with BnG & Darts, best advice I can give, just chill, enjoy it, stop comparing the things you like to things other people like, and just get on with it, it honestly puts people off when you act so desperate.

QuoteYou would deny facts if they slapped you in the face.

You must have a lot of bruises by now  :D

QuoteNo, you have explained why it's different, neither is "better" than the other, because it's up to each individual to make the decision what is best for themselves.

It is up for each intellect to decide what works best for themselves, that's why this topic exists. Discussing the difference, the cons and the pros.

QuoteYou do not get to decide what is better for all humanity, which is why you are delusional thinking that you can.

You don't get to decide too, Komodo.

QuoteInteresting, earlier in this post you were calling people weak, lacking confidence etc because they rope with parachute.

Not only are you delusional, you are a hypocrite as well.

Because with parachute, you may have a good time, but when no parachute element was introduced, it caused a line between parachute and no parachute. Ergo, having parachute is less risky. But again, you can rope fast etc with parachute, just as you can with no parachute, excluding parachute tricks.

QuoteYou are having delusions of grandeur about a scheme Kradie, it's not healthy, trust me, i've been there with BnG & Darts, best advice I can give, just chill, enjoy it, stop comparing the things you like to things other people like, and just get on with it, it honestly puts people off when you act so desperate.

So you are a doctor now who gives diagnoses on a Worms forum? LMAO.. That's hilarious man  :D

Rest assured lad, I am chill, I am simply discussing these things with you. If you think I am delusional etc, good for you.

I am not desperate. Parachute and no parachute is a thing to compare, and it has been discussed here.  I can't force you or anyone else, at least we all can acknowledge there are 2 sides to review. We gone so deep to convince one another., so it would be wrong to call this desperate.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 08:19 PM
You must have a lot of bruises by now  :D

Yeah but I can take a punch, you just get knocked the f**k out and wake up later in denial.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 08:19 PM
You don't get to decide too, Komodo.

I'm not the one saying either or is better, all i've been saying is using parachute is not a bad thing, and learning how to rope with parachute is generally considered a faster method than learning without, and i've already explained why, I never said it's "better", that's up to each person to decide for themselves as some people prefer learning fast, some prefer learning slowly.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 08:19 PM
Because with parachute, you may have a good time, but when no parachute element was introduced, it caused a line between parachute and no parachute. Ergo, having parachute is less risky. But again, you can rope fast etc with parachute, just as you can with no parachute, excluding parachute tricks.

You have been caught red handed being a hypocrite, by the literal definition of the word.

You could either apologize for being a hypocrite, or stop complaining about other people doing the same thing that you are doing.

Stop trying to wriggle your way out of it, your reply here has nothing to do with you being called out for being a hypocrite.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 08:19 PM
So you are a doctor now who gives diagnoses on a Worms forum? LMAO.. That's hilarious man  :D

I never said I was a doctor, and one doesn't need to be a doctor to understand the English language.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 08:19 PM
If you think I am delusional etc, good for you.

It's not good for either of us, and I don't get some sort of satisfaction for saying it, I said it because it's simply a word, and what the word means fits your actions in this thread.

I don't think I am any better, or any worse, more or less important than any human on this planet, let alone in this thread.

Think of it this way, I am not debating with YOU, I am debating with the words you are using, because of what words mean.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 08:19 PM
I am not desperate.

Stop acting like it then.

QuoteI'm not the one saying either or is better, all i've been saying is using parachute is not a bad thing, and learning how to rope with parachute is generally considered a faster method than learning without, and i've already explained why, I never said it's "better", that's up to each person to decide for themselves as some people prefer learning fast, some prefer learning slowly.

That's your opinion. I think one can learn faster without parachute. It all depends on the individual's learning capabilities. I can do with both parachute and without. But I prefer without, I told you why.

QuoteIt's not good for either of us, and I don't get some sort of satisfaction for saying it, I said it because it's simply a word, and what the word means fits your actions in this thread.

In general, people like getting gratification by mostly anything. Even winning arguments and proving a point.

But I feel pity if you think you won anything here in this topic. I think you are wrong and is serious deranged.

QuoteStop acting like it then.

Here's a novel tittle for you ''How to stop acting desperate when you're not''.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 11:07 PM
That's your opinion.

One shared by probably almost everyone who has learned how to rope, because if learning was faster without parachute, that's how they would have learned.

It is quite fascinating how you fail to grasp this simple logic and psychology.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 11:07 PM
I think one can learn faster without parachute. It all depends on the individual's learning capabilities. I can do with both parachute and without. But I prefer without, I told you why.

How can you possibly think learning how to rope without parachute is faster  :D :D :D Man this sh*t cracks me up!

There is a saying - "Practise makes perfect", it's general knowledge to the human race that we master cognitive and motor skilled abilities by repeating things over and over.

We learn, remember and master how to talk by hearing them over and over and repeating them, using them again and again.

We learn, remember and master how to write by practising over and over again, which is why in school you practise handwriting A LOT!

We become more precise with our movements the more we do them.

If you use don't use parachute, learning how to rope will take longer in general simply because of the lost time from falling and waiting to start again, even more so when you are playing in a multiplayer game(which most people do). It has nothing to do with how hardcore you think you are because you are adding more risk to something you don't need to.

If you use parachute, learning how to rope will be much faster than without simply because of the time saved when you fail, you can get going again almost immediately so your flow doesn't break, it's easier to "stay in the zone" which refers to mental state of concentration.

Can you imagine 3-6 player Warmers back in the day without parachute? Having to wait so much longer to have your turn?

Not to mention, without parachute, as you have even said yourself, it's a lot riskier to attempt the faster, more difficult and impressive moves, and these moves take a lot of practise, and precise hand-eye coordination to master, so by using parachute, you simply save a lot of time, and get more practise in, so you will improve faster.

This is basic logic, physics and psychology.

It doesn't matter if you agree or not, those are cornerstones of our evolution as humans and the way we learn/do things that people with even a below average IQ will understand.

Sure, if you complete a TTRR and beat someone like daina, dibz, ryan, mablak or Nonentity without even using parachute, i'll be incredibly impressed, but I severely doubt that's ever gonna happen lol, and it still won't make you learn faster.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 11:07 PM
In general, people like getting gratification by mostly anything. Even winning arguments and proving a point.

That's true, but I don't, I feel good when i've helped someone learn something, not by making them feel bad because they lost.

I don't care if I win or lose usually, I like teaching, or being taught.

Quote from: Kradie on August 13, 2019, 11:07 PM
But I feel pity if you think you won anything here in this topic.

It's not a competition, it's weird if you think it is.

QuoteIf you use parachute, learning how to rope will be much faster than without simply because of the time saved when you fail, you can get going again almost immediately so your flow doesn't break, it's easier to "stay in the zone" which refers to mental state of concentration.

Can you imagine 3-6 player Warmers back in the day without parachute? Having to wait so much longer to have your turn?

Not to mention, without parachute, as you have even said yourself, it's a lot riskier to attempt the faster, more difficult and impressive moves, and these moves take a lot of practise, and precise hand-eye coordination to master, so by using parachute, you simply save a lot of time, and get more practise in, so you will improve faster.

For beginners it could be troublesome as mentioned before, but I have heard no complaints, people have Improved under my games without parachute. If you really want to ''stay in the zone'', have ldet enabled. Or better yet, become a munk.

I don't need to imagine, because I can get long turns without parachute. In Zar roper, you remember the fail, try not to repeat it if it is serious game. It all depends on the player and how he/she/it wishes to play. If laid back and don't care, then fails could happen, but if serious, then less fail if person is trained and skilled enough. People are usually patient, as am I, so waiting say 30-60 seconds if many people in a game, no problem.

There are simply two training techniques one without chute and one with chute. IT depends on person, and their learning capabilities. Which one fancy more and so on. Again, no one new and experienced complains about this in my games.

Damn, this was a long post, got me thinking about stuff  :D

Well, when we say "learn how to rope", aren't we assuming we are talking about beginners anyway?

I didn't say people can't improve without parachute, of course they can, because it's still practise.

I'm just saying that with parachute, they will improve faster.

And of course they can practise with ldet, as a matter of fact since ldet became a thing, you can learn to rope even faster!

Also with ldet in Big RR for example, 40s no banana, it means every player gets the same amount of time roping, and it helps keeps players interested when you have like 4 players, as sometimes players will quit if everyone else is having full turns, and they are losing their turn very fast and falling incredibly far behind. I know this isn't "honorable" in your opinion, but it's fun in casual games.

Of course this is no good in league matches as they don't allow ldet, but it's great for funners and learning!

Also, what is a munk?

Sure, you can get long turns without parachute, but can you get incredibly impressive turns that rival the greatest considered ropers of all time? Personally I think you are holding yourself back, but hey if you are happy we're all good :)

You keep saying "In ZaR roper, you remember the fail, try not to repeat it", but any successful person will tell you that you learn from your mistakes, and you keep trying over and over until you get it right, and I am confident enough to say most successful people, in many aspects of life will tell you that you will get better by pushing boundaries, by any means neccessary.

Because you don't have that safety net from using the parachute, you may indeed be more cautious, and you won't push the boundaries as much as you would with the parachute, which will probably leave you being a consistent roper, but not so much an impressive roper that pushes the boundaries.

Don't think of the parachute as a crutch, think of it as an asset, like using planes to fly, using vehicles to travel, having the internet to help us learn etc, it's a good thing because it helps us to become better faster!

Now, this completely matters on your mental state, you might be a "full send" type of guy, where you don't give a f**k and even without parachute you will try to go as fast as possible even if it takes many years until you master it! But it'll still take you longer than using parachute.

There are a lot more training techniques than just with chute and without chute.

Low gravity, ldet, rubberworm, just to name a few, and they are all useful in their own way, and I do believe roping without parachute is useful in some ways, but not quite as vastly as you do.

---

Talking about pushing boundaries and using chute etc has reminded me about one of the greatest things I was taught in life by my music tutor was "B.A.M.N!!!" - By Any Means Necessary!!!

It kinda comes down to a simple analogy in music production, one that has been passed around millions of musicians and producers/mixing engineers:

Quote"I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I'm not sure where to go from here. I haven't made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

Some people call using presets in synthesizers in music production cheating, with which I always reply with something M3ntal taught me - People who play pianos are using presets, people who play guitars are using presets, people who use drums are using presets, every instrument is a preset, and that's a good thing! It's the end result that matters!

Also, along with this amazing educational video:



Whether you do it faster, or do it slower, use already existing material, or new material, do whatever works for you!

---

My only problem I had with you in this thread Kradie, was you being negative towards people who use parachute. Instead of being clever and interesting in a way that promotes ZaR and not using parachute, you attacked a long standing tradition in this game, and called it inferior, weak, pathetic etc... And the funny thing is, you have every right to voice your opinions, but think about this, if you had said all your good opinions about not using parachute without saying any of your bad opinions about using parachute, this would have worked out a lot better for you.

Just remember the way you advertise and market certain things can have a drastic impact on how people perceive it and decide if they want to be involved or not.

Why do you think pretty much all real life advertising campaigns don't immediately attack other companies? They want to make you feel good, they want to trigger good, happy memories, not make you hate other things and trigger bad/spiteful memories, because people don't usually buy most things when they are angry!

A random example, take Nike, their adverts don't start with "Don't wear Adidas, you're weak if you wear Adidas, wear Nike, be hardcore warrior like us!" (Although that would probably be a pretty amusing advert lol)

Just something to consider...

QuoteWell, when we say "learn how to rope", aren't we assuming we are talking about beginners anyway?

I didn't say people can't improve without parachute, of course they can, because it's still practise.

I'm just saying that with parachute, they will improve faster.

Entirely subjective and not documented in WA.

QuoteAnd of course they can practise with ldet, as a matter of fact since ldet became a thing, you can learn to rope even faster!

That is so wrong and cringe worthy man. What drugs are you on? Sure I can get by ldet being a thing in warmers though.

QuoteAlso with ldet in Big RR for example, 40s no banana, it means every player gets the same amount of time roping, and it helps keeps players interested when you have like 4 players, as sometimes players will quit if everyone else is having full turns, and they are losing their turn very fast and falling incredibly far behind. I know this isn't "honorable" in your opinion, but it's fun in casual games.

Wow so communistic. It is not honorable, if you fall behind, that's your fault! Even I can fall incredible far behind.

QuoteSure, you can get long turns without parachute, but can you get incredibly impressive turns that rival the greatest considered ropers of all time? Personally I think you are holding yourself back, but hey if you are happy we're all good :)

ZaR has some extremely talented ropers, and one of them is particular pain in the ass to pin down. So, are you saying that I need to practice roping with traditional settings before considering beating anyone else that exceeds my own current skills either if they are ZaR or not? Quite frankly, I never fought to be the very best, but to Improve myself. With ZaR I have, and so have everyone else in it and outside of it.

QuoteYou keep saying "In ZaR roper, you remember the fail, try not to repeat it", but any successful person will tell you that you learn from your mistakes, and you keep trying over and over until you get it right, and I am confident enough to say most successful people, in many aspects of life will tell you that you will get better by pushing boundaries, by any means neccessary.

So you are saying that in order to get better faster, instant repeat by parachute save is necessary in contrast to no parachute? If that is the case, this topic will never end.

QuoteBecause you don't have that safety net from using the parachute, you may indeed be more cautious, and you won't push the boundaries as much as you would with the parachute, which will probably leave you being a consistent roper, but not so much an impressive roper that pushes the boundaries.

Komodo, I have seen impressive roping combined with high consistency in ZaR. Both can be applied there, and one does not to have to be a TAS to do it.  I have seen players complimenting other players on their perfectly executed turns. Turns that requires rapid momentum, precise maneuvers and tricks if necessary, tricks that can even further acceleration. If you do not believe this, you are in denial.
It is a good thing you are acknowledging that no parachute requires more consistency.

QuoteDon't think of the parachute as a crutch, think of it as an asset, like using planes to fly, using vehicles to travel, having the internet to help us learn etc, it's a good thing because it helps us to become better faster!

Sure, asset is fine. Fine for other modes.

QuoteThere are a lot more training techniques than just with chute and without chute.

Yep.

QuoteMy only problem I had with you in this thread Kradie, was you being negative towards people who use parachute. Instead of being clever and interesting in a way that promotes ZaR and not using parachute, you attacked a long standing tradition in this game, and called it inferior, weak, pathetic etc... And the funny thing is, you have every right to voice your opinions, but think about this, if you had said all your good opinions about not using parachute without saying any of your bad opinions about using parachute, this would have worked out a lot better for you

Worked out differently for me? Am I supposed to be in a tight spot here? Am I in trouble? Oh wow, I forgot that other in this thread attacked no parachute ropers too. Anyways man, this thread, this poll, shows one things. Majority on TuS, and legacy players are more comfortable & safe using parachute. While I, some legacy players, and new generation, are not.  It is about ''Ok, I don't mind roping without parachute''. It is not a gun to their heads saying ''Rope without parachute or else!''.

QuoteJust remember the way you advertise and market certain things can have a drastic impact on how people perceive it and decide if they want to be involved or not.

Why do you think pretty much all real life advertising campaigns don't immediately attack other companies? They want to make you feel good, they want to trigger good, happy memories, not make you hate other things and trigger bad/spiteful memories, because people don't usually buy most things when they are angry!

Komodo man, I did not make this thread with the intent of advertising. I came here to voice my opinion, have other vote and reply whether they agree or not. If you think that my first post and continued replies afterward were harsh vocally, that's because I firmly believe in what I say. However, my intention were not bad, and if it seemed that way, it perhaps overshadowed the inevitable truth that imo, parachute can be good and fun alternate mode for other people instead of relying on parachute.

QuoteA random example, take Nike, their adverts don't start with "Don't wear Adidas, you're weak if you wear Adidas, wear Nike, be hardcore warrior like us!" (Although that would probably be a pretty amusing advert lol)

Boy oh boy that made me think of this
https://youtu.be/35jGnZ-e3jc

You seem to love metaphors so much, so I will give you one, something I mentioned briefly before.

In speedruns there are many categories, so for example in Super Mario The Lost Levels. You have any%, and 100% runs. You have big Mario run, and you have small Mario runs. You can choose Luigi too, and he can do any of the mentioned categories as well. However, with Luigi, you can jump so much higher and longer, but with Mario you cannot. Luigi's physics makes it easier to maneuver but with Mario your acceleration and speed is tad better. Some says Luigi is too easy to learn, so people stick with Mario. There are many other speedrun games that are similar to this.

So when you think about no parachute, think about it like this. It is its own category and you can rope and master roping just asd you could with parachute, but AGAIN EXCLUDING parachute techniques.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 02:46 PM
Entirely subjective and not documented in WA.

It's not subjective, and it is documented, because we have replays and testimonials of other players.

Also we have physics, science, psychology etc as well.

You just haven't bothered to look, study, or ask.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 02:46 PM
That is so wrong and cringe worthy man.

Explain how it is wrong?

At this point you are just arguing for the sake of arguing, i've already gave you sufficient enough evidence explaining why it's faster to learn with parachute, using ldet improves this. Use common sense.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 02:46 PM
Wow so communistic. It is not honorable, if you fall behind, that's your fault! Even I can fall incredible far behind.

It has nothing to do with communism.

You don't get to decide if it's honorable or not and write that as a factual statement for all mankind, sure, in your opinion, it's not honorable, which we already established.

As i've already explained it gets used in funners, there is entirely nothing "wrong" with giving each player the same amount of time to play their turn.

For example, what is honorable in one culture, may offend and disgust in another.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 02:46 PM
ZaR has some extremely talented ropers, and one of them is particular pain in the ass to pin down. So, are you saying that I need to practice roping with traditional settings before considering beating anyone else that exceeds my own current skills either if they are ZaR or not? Quite frankly, I never fought to be the very best, but to Improve myself. With ZaR I have, and so have everyone else in it and outside of it.

My quote wasn't about other people, it was about you.

So let's ignore other people right now because that was about you.

I don't need to reply to this because you haven't answered the question yet.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 02:46 PM
So you are saying that in order to get better faster, instant repeat by parachute save is necessary in contrast to no parachute? If that is the case, this topic will never end.

No, i'm saying you will improve faster by using parachute, rather than not using parachute.

At no point did I say "in order to get better faster, instant repeat by parachute save is necessary in contrast to no parachute"

For example, if someone spends 30 hours a week playing without parachute, versus someone playing 2 hours a week with parachute, the person playing 30 hours a week will more than likely improve faster.

But if that person playing 30 hours a week, were to play with parachute, they would generally improve faster over time, as i've already explained.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 02:46 PM
Komodo, I have seen impressive roping combined with high consistency in ZaR.

Yeah, I can quite confidently say probably from players who learned to rope before ZaR existed, and/or practises a lot with parachute as well.

I don't know any impressive ropers who learned purely by playing ZaR and no other roping schemes.

This, is purely opinionated though, so it's not that important.

However if I am wrong, and you can prove it, with actual evidence not just opinions, please do so, i'd be interested to see that.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 02:46 PM
It is a good thing you are acknowledging that no parachute requires more consistency.

I never acknowledged any such thing.

You would be the worlds worst lawyer because you can't even read things exactly as they are written.

Read it again:

Quote from: TheKomodo on August 14, 2019, 01:03 AM
Because you don't have that safety net from using the parachute, you may indeed be more cautious, and you won't push the boundaries as much as you would with the parachute, which will probably leave you being a consistent roper, but not so much an impressive roper that pushes the boundaries.

I would, perhaps say roping without parachute requires more patience(from falling, and having to wait to go again), but definitely not more consistency.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 02:46 PM
Worked out differently for me? Am I supposed to be in a tight spot here? Am I in trouble?

I just mean, you would probably have better luck sharing your passion, if you went about it in a more positive manner, is all.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 02:46 PM
Komodo man, I did not make this thread with the intent of advertising. I came here to voice my opinion,

Whether you realize it or not, you have been advertising things you are passionate about.

And you didn't just voice your opinion, you tried to belittle the views and practices of other people as well.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 02:46 PM
Boy oh boy that made me think of this

Lol, I remember that advert, I saw it some years back, someone showed me it I can't remember why now...

I hope you didn't show me that because you assumed I was saying nobody does it though, because that's why I said "pretty much all companies", and didn't say they all do it, I don't think you are, but if you did well just had to justify that.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 02:46 PM

In speedruns there are many categories, so for example in Super Mario The Lost Levels. You have any%, and 100% runs. You have big Mario run, and you have small Mario runs. You can choose Luigi too, and he can do any of the mentioned categories as well. However, with Luigi, you can jump so much higher and longer, but with Mario you cannot. Luigi's physics makes it easier to maneuver but with Mario your acceleration and speed is tad better. Some says Luigi is too easy to learn, so people stick with Mario. There are many other speedrun games that are similar to this.

That's completely different, because in your example, using different characters actually changes the physics of the game. When I used other games as examples, I said completing the game without using mushrooms etc, not a different character which has different abilities etc.

That would be like roping, with different physics, which doesn't happen. In roping, with or without parachute, everything is the same.

So no, I won't think about it like that, because that would be ignorant.

QuoteIt's not subjective, and it is documented, because we have replays and testimonials of other players.

Also we have physics, science, psychology etc as well.

You just haven't bothered to look, study, or ask.

You are so narrowed minded and one sided it is unbelievable. So again, it is entirely subjective. Your opinion.

QuoteExplain how it is wrong?

It is wrong, it is more hand holding.

QuoteIt has nothing to do with communism.

You don't get to decide if it's honorable or not and write that as a factual statement for all mankind, sure, in your opinion, it's not honorable, which we already established.

As i've already explained it gets used in funners, there is entirely nothing "wrong" with giving each player the same amount of time to play their turn.

For example, what is honorable in one culture, may offend and disgust in another.

You don't get to decide either whatever it is Komodo. It is more rewarding to rope without parachute. So if one player fails and doesn't match up with the other player's time and performance, that's their fault, let alone if they fail.

To fail is a normal human thing Komodo, it is important to allow people to be reminded of their mistakes. They become more aware of their faults and will likely try to avoid it. With chute, it can cloud their roping, while without, you will see clearly at the mistake performed.

QuoteMy quote wasn't about other people, it was about you.

So let's ignore other people right now because that was about you.

I don't need to reply to this because you haven't answered the question yet.

I think my answer was pretty clear, unfortunately for you, facts keeps punching you.

QuoteNo, i'm saying you will improve faster by using parachute, rather than not using parachute.

At no point did I say "in order to get better faster, instant repeat by parachute save is necessary in contrast to no parachute

Then you Komodo are deeply in the error. I am sorry for you.

QuoteFor example, if someone spends 30 hours a week playing without parachute, versus someone playing 2 hours a week with parachute, the person playing 30 hours a week will more than likely improve faster.

But if that person playing 30 hours a week, were to play with parachute, they would generally improve faster over time, as i've already explained.

Are you proposing a test? You seem to come up with random numbers and ideas. You have no idea what you are talking about. You try act some knowledgeable person but you are just now spilling nonsense.

QuoteI would, perhaps say roping without parachute requires more patience(from falling, and having to wait to go again), but definitely not more consistency.

And more consistency ;)

QuoteI just mean, you would probably have better luck sharing your passion, if you went about it in a more positive manner, is all.

If you can't handle how I roll, then go in a corner and cry. Facts don't care about your feelings.

QuoteWhether you realize it or not, you have been advertising things you are passionate about.

And you didn't just voice your opinion, you tried to belittle the views and practices of other people as well.

Belittle the views and practices of other people? You are doing that here in this topic.  If you can't accept what I have to say, that's on you. I can accept and see where you are coming from, but if you can't you are lost.

QuoteThat's completely different, because in your example, using different characters actually changes the physics of the game. When I used other games as examples, I said completing the game without using mushrooms etc, not a different character which has different abilities etc.

That would be like roping, with different physics, which doesn't happen. In roping, with or without parachute, everything is the same.

So no, I won't think about it like that, because that would be ignorant.

See? You can't even stand facts, and comparison! You just don't like it when other people flip the tables at you. That's low, and let alone egotistical of you. You belittle my views, you disrespect everything. So why should I care? I tried to explain that no parachute have its advantages, and is faster to master (imo). No matter how I put it, no matter how I place my words, you remain ignorant. The only thing there is left is a picture book for dummies.

SIGH.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
You are so narrowed minded and one sided it is unbelievable. So again, it is entirely subjective. Your opinion.

So instead of using history, things that actually happened, doing actual research, using replays(things that actually exist), talking to people and getting their testimonials to process your thoughts and beliefs, you are happy to just believe something because you like it like that and don't want to even check 1st?

You can call me narrow minded and one sided all you want, it still doesn't make it true lol.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
It is wrong, it is more hand holding.

Lol, so, when asked to elaborate on your inaccurate accusations, you can't.

Ok, that's fine, just more reason not to believe anything you say because you are unable to come up with comprehensive arguements.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
You don't get to decide either whatever it is Komodo.

You are the one trying to pass off personal beliefs as universal facts, not me.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
It is more rewarding to rope without parachute.

There you go again trying to state opinions as facts, all you need to do is add "for me" at the end of that sentence.

Because, if you didn't know, the world doesn't evolve around you Kradie.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
So if one player fails and doesn't match up with the other player's time and performance, that's their fault, let alone if they fail.

You are missing the point entirely.

It doesn't matter whose fault it is, we're talking about having fun, giving each player the same amount of time to rope.

You call me egotistical yet you are making this all about you how you personally feel about it, it doesn't matter if you don't like it or not lol, all I was saying is that it's fun for some people, I didn't expect you to bite so hard at this wow...

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
With chute, it can cloud their roping, while without, you will see clearly at the mistake performed.

So what you are saying is, you are unable to detect mistakes while using parachute, and because you don't understand that other people can, you think it doesn't happen at all lol?

That's what it sounds like you are saying and i've already explained, this is not an opinion, this is a fact:

When you lose control of rope, hit the wall, or the roof, or fail to hit spacebar in time, or press the wrong arrow keys, with or without parachute, you are aware of your mistake. Why? Because if you use parachute, you will either lose control of the worm completely, or the parachute will open, it's very simple.

Using parachute doesn't make people blind to mistakes, not using parachute doesn't change the physics of roping, it doesn't make mistakes happen that can't happen with parachute.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
I think my answer was pretty clear, unfortunately for you, facts keeps punching you.

You dodged the question entirely, you still are.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
Then you Komodo are deeply in the error. I am sorry for you.

You twist my words, then can't even understand what you done wrong lol.

This is hilarious ;D :D ;D

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
Are you proposing a test? You seem to come up with random numbers and ideas. You have no idea what you are talking about.

You can't even tell apart examples, theories, evidence, and facts/opinions.

You can't even realize when you are being a hypocrite.

You keep digging a bigger and bigger hole for yourself.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
And more consistency ;)

Do you even know what consistency means?

I specifically didn't say what you are saying because being more consistent doesn't mean better.

You can be consistently slow, you can be consistently bad.

Using parachute or not makes no difference to how consistent a person can be, all I said was without using parachute you are more likely to become a consistent roper, rather than an impressive roper, because as you said, you will be more focused on trying not to fall, so you will rope safer/slower to make sure you don't chance losing your turn.

And what I was implying there was it is more likely to make you a slower, safer roper because the fear of falling and losing your turn doesn't make you push boundaries as much.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
If you can't handle how I roll, then go in a corner and cry. Facts don't care about your feelings.

Are you really telling someone over the internet to go in a corner and cry?

Is this how desperate you've became? You can't even debate using any sort of useful information at all anymore?

You look like you are starting to take this very personally and starting to lose control man, keep calm, it's just a debate :)

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
Belittle the views and practices of other people? You are doing that here in this topic.  If you can't accept what I have to say, that's on you. I can accept and see where you are coming from, but if you can't you are lost.

I'm not belittling the views of other people, or their practices.

You are the one who created this topic calling other people weak, they need their hand held etc.

If you feel belittled because of the way i've defended against such ridiculous opinions that you've made, then you are acting insecure and in the moment lacking confidence.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
See? You can't even stand facts, and comparison! You just don't like it when other people flip the tables at you.

I love facts, but the fact is, you are trying to use comparisons that are not as close in comparison as mine, and all I did was point that out, I didn't say I couldn't stand it, I just used simple common sense to show why your comparison is not as accurate as mine.

You use different characters in a mario game that have physical differences in the game world.

I used 1 character comparing getting through the game without any assets:

A worm - Mario
A rope = Mario jumping
A parachute = Mario items such as mushroom/flower/racoon etc
Changing the rope physics to be faster = Going Luigi (And this is where you became inaccurate because I assume we are talking about standard WA Roping, not manipulated gravity etc).

It's not my fault you are unable to comprehend these differences and how they compare with each other.

Quote from: Kradie on August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM
I tried to explain that no parachute have its advantages, and is faster to master (imo).

Well, now that you've admitted it's an opinion, and not stating it as a universal fact that all humans must agree with, that's fine :)

QuoteSo instead of using history, things that actually happened, doing actual research, using replays(things that actually exist), talking to people and getting their testimonials to process your thoughts and beliefs, you are happy to just believe something because you like it like that and don't want to even check 1st?

You can call me narrow minded and one sided all you want, it still doesn't make it true lol.

ZaR have existed for over 4 years now. People are familiar with it. It have been in the league. It have been played many times. And I am saying people can improve faster without parachute.

QuoteYou are the one trying to pass off personal beliefs as universal facts, not me.

Look who's talking.

QuoteThere you go again trying to state opinions as facts, all you need to do is add "for me" at the end of that sentence.

Because, if you didn't know, the world doesn't evolve around you Kradie.

Just because you lack the necessary skill like, focus, consistency and patience, doesn't mean beginners and other people are like that.

QuoteIt doesn't matter whose fault it is, we're talking about having fun, giving each player the same amount of time to rope.

You call me egotistical yet you are making this all about you how you personally feel about it, it doesn't matter if you don't like it or not lol, all I was saying is that it's fun for some people, I didn't expect you to bite so hard at this wow...

It does matter who fault it is. If you fail, that's on you. 

QuoteSo what you are saying is, you are unable to detect mistakes while using parachute, and because you don't understand that other people can, you think it doesn't happen at all lol?

That's what it sounds like you are saying and i've already explained, this is not an opinion, this is a fact:

When you lose control of rope, hit the wall, or the roof, or fail to hit spacebar in time, or press the wrong arrow keys, with or without parachute, you are aware of your mistake. Why? Because if you use parachute, you will either lose control of the worm completely, or the parachute will open, it's very simple.

Using parachute doesn't make people blind to mistakes, not using parachute doesn't change the physics of roping, it doesn't make mistakes happen that can't happen with parachute.

Continuous rinse and repeat makes the mind numb and blind to mistakes because it all happens quickly. Without parachute, it is easier to review the mistakes because it have showed an error in your turn.

QuoteYou dodged the question entirely, you still are.

Nope. Give it up Komodo.

QuoteYou twist my words, then can't even understand what you done wrong lol.

This is hilarious ;D :D ;D

I am happy you find entertainment in your ignorance ^^

QuoteYou can't even tell apart examples, theories, evidence, and facts/opinions.

You can't even realize when you are being a hypocrite.

You keep digging a bigger and bigger hole for yourself.

You throw around random numbers that doesn't prove anything. You are tall talk, no action.

QuoteDo you even know what consistency means?

I specifically didn't say what you are saying because being more consistent doesn't mean better.

You can be consistently slow, you can be consistently bad.

Using parachute or not makes no difference to how consistent a person can be, all I said was without using parachute you are more likely to become a consistent roper, rather than an impressive roper, because as you said, you will be more focused on trying not to fall, so you will rope safer/slower to make sure you don't chance losing your turn.

And what I was implying there was it is more likely to make you a slower, safer roper because the fear of falling and losing your turn doesn't make you push boundaries as much.

Yep, and you can be a impressive roper and have great consistency with INCREDIBLE SPEED. Because the mind have adapted. People are fearless without parachute, it is rewarding, and pride. They fight for it. Showing that they aren't dependent on a pillow to land on.

QuoteAre you really telling someone over the internet to go in a corner and cry?

Is this how desperate you've became? You can't even debate using any sort of useful information at all anymore?

You look like you are starting to take this very personally and starting to lose control man, keep calm, it's just a debate :)

I am pretty calm about this. Did you assume I was desperate? I have used many useful information, but you are throwing them out because it doesn't fit your deluded narrative.

QuoteI'm not belittling the views of other people, or their practices.

You are the one who created this topic calling other people weak, they need their hand held etc.

If you feel belittled because of the way i've defended against such ridiculous opinions that you've made, then you are acting insecure and in the moment lacking confidence.

Why would you advocate for these people? They haven't even complained. So you are assuming. I am not feeling insecure, and lacking confidence. In fact, quite the opposite!

QuoteWell, now that you've admitted it's an opinion, and not stating it as a universal fact that all humans must agree with, that's fine :)

Rest assured, your input here are purely opinion based. While mine are opinion, but facts too. You do gain more knowledge, you do rope better, you do see your mistakes more often, you do learn faster.

It is a pity you denounce the speedrunning comparison, and no parachute as its own category. It just shows how deluded you are. It's crazy.

I never met anyone in my life this incredible stubborn. It behooves you to stop impugning irrationally, and instead try ameliorate the situation.When someone disagree with you, you go out of your way to make it as facts. Komodo is right, REGARDLESS.

Btw, how was your date?

Practically speaking, consistency means to some extent you're sacrificing risk and speed in favor of known, easily repeatable rope trajectories and angles. WA has a nearly unlimited skill ceiling because as the the rope gets shorter, you get more speed, to the point where it becomes imperceptible and impossible to consistently operate within those margins. It's possible to rope just as fast in zar, but people don't, because if you miss that wall-hugging pump outlaw it's 70 damage. You badmouth recklessness and praise discipline and consistency (its opposites (in this context- don't quote the dictionary)), but refuse to acknowledge the practical contradiction involved in producing "incredible speed". You aren't arguing in good faith. Komo has won this argument half a dozen times already with facts, common sense and logic while you rely on schoolyard bullshit like "I know you are but what am I?" Zar could be a superior league scheme but it reduces the role of the rope to utilitarian A to B transportation.

Just watch daina rope .. she never falls, but aside from her very admirable consistency her roping is boring and unimpressive. She takes no risks, always long ropes etc. That rope style often results in the fastest ttrr time, but it doesn't leave you flabbergasted asking yourself how that roping is even humanly possible like you do when Mablak is on his game; she makes it look easy. Yet she'd pretty much be the ultimate zar roper.

QuoteWA has a nearly unlimited skill ceiling because as the the rope gets shorter, you get more speed, to the point where it becomes imperceptible and impossible to consistently operate within those margins. It's possible to rope just as fast in zar, but people don't, because if you miss that wall-hugging pump outlaw it's 70 damage.

Speed is absolutely necessary in ZaR, people gain this with short rapid burst of rope, or long extensions. It is a matter of preference and how that person have mastered the required preference. E.g, I do extreme smooth and fast scrolls in w2w in zar, because It works best for me. While some chooses different approach, a more safer way. If I am on right bottom side, I need to be extremely fast to do a push up and commit to rapid scrolls/dragon if need be. Because of this, I put myself at risk, I need to focus with my eye on visual cues, how to do a clean push from the bottom and all the way to the top. This can prove tricky at times depending on how tight the area is.

Quoteou aren't arguing in good faith. Komo has won this argument half a dozen times already with facts, common sense and logic while you rely on schoolyard bullshit like "I know you are but what am I?" Zar could be a superior league scheme but it reduces the role of the rope to utilitarian A to B transportation.

I am not arguing, this is not a schoolyard, we all are having a debate. I have presented my opinions, my thoughts, my belief, and even dared to call them as facts, because I firmly believe in them based on experience with no parachute and with others.  It is good to have this discussion, it have never been talked about before. It is challenging for people to try something new, I know believe me.

@Kradie

There is nothing you have wrote there that I haven't already responded to in one way or another.

I joined this discussion because you were stating things as facts when they were simply personal beliefs, and at some point or another in this thread, you have wrote those things as opinions by adding stuff like "(imo)", and "I think" etc.

Even though i'm sure you will never comprehend most of what i've wrote in this thread, or even give it a second thought, there is nothing for me to add here anymore, it would just be going round in circles, so just like using parachute saves time, i'm gonna save time by not discussing this anymore.

Thanks for the debate though, anyone who can be bothered reading this thread can decide for themselves what to believe, and all I wanted was to provide useful information for other people, rather than only having the things you wrote as a guide, so that they can judge for themselves.

And yes, the date went well thanks, we're together now, we have a date night tonight, so I better get some sleep  :-*

Quote from: j0e on August 15, 2019, 10:30 PM
Practically speaking, consistency means to some extent you're sacrificing risk and speed in favor of known, easily repeatable rope trajectories and angles.

I wouldn't bother man, he's never going to comprehend it.  ::)

I was wondering when this thread was coming to an end. I am glad to it finally ending now. Now that Komodo's ego have finally stopped burning. Ego and ignorance can cloud one's comprehension of reality, but do I fault him? Do I regret having this discussion with him? Hard to say, and no, I do not regret. Here is why. There are can be many factor of a man's delusion and unwillingness to see, and accept others point of view, and perhaps facts, but Komodo shuns it away with arrogance and giggles like it is some kind of sandbox for children. I do not regret having this debate, but It was exhausting. But the info provided by both parties can prove useful for the curios reader, so that person that read can make their own decisions.

No problem Mr Komodo. I am glad you had your fun.

Oh wow, this shit is still going on.
You two really belong to transcendental part of community.

[deleted]