The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Worms: Armageddon => Promotion Project => Topic started by: iClown on January 20, 2013, 09:33 AM
-
Hello fellow worms junkies! :D
(Undisclosed Wormer) told me about this discussion because of a website Ive been working on and said that my input is needed here. I decided to come see what all the ruckus was about and, after browsing briefly through the topics, decided that it might be a good Idea to voice my concerns.
-- Lets Begin --
There is a massive gap between the so-called "Pros" and our new friends who stumble into Wormnet regardless how they figured out that it exists. It may very well be over-kill to advertise that Worms Armageddon exists in the light of it being released in 1999 not to mention the free release of it on Steam with the purchase of Worms Revolution (http://store.steampowered.com/app/217200/). I dont mean to discourage your efforts here by any means, in fact, I think its a great idea and am behind the effort 110% - Keep on doing what you are doing! I'm not a fan of Steam personally but it still might be a good idea to include that link in your projects- whatever you might be doing. I do want to point out a couple of matters though so let me get to the point here.
Roping games dominate a large portion of W:A online game play. When I first came to Wormnet I played a Shopper game on a game generated island map full of cacti, I didnt know what was going on and I got the first turn. Naturally I did a cow. In those days KTC was also a happily celebrated rule of these roping games and, that being true, I didnt see a 2nd turn. Instead my worms were ravaged by every other person playing that game. It was great!! Thankfully Wormnet had a friendly culture! You see, In the days when dinosaurs roamed the internet Wormnet was busy forging this culture and etiquette that we have all experienced on some level at some point (I hope), so when I asked the question "omgomgomg wtf is this voodoo?! what is going on here?!" the host of the game politely explained the rules of the game along with all the extras - what is cow, what is KTC etc.
Today it has somewhat degenerated from that. More often than not a "noob" will be kicked out of the game before it even starts because he or she didnt say "CAK" fast enough or when asked for rules didnt know what to respond. Back when I first started playing that didnt happen, if it did its because you joined a wxw game and even then it was infrequent plus you wouldnt necessarily be kicked from the game. If it hadn't been for the person who was nice enough to tell me what was going on without calling names or raging, that experience for me would have been a gd f'ing nightmare. What is it like for a 'noob' to learn this stuff today though? I'm betting its a nightmare.
All of the "Pros" are too busy playing schemes that aren't so noob friendly with their carefully selected groups of friends and it seems less and less often somebody that knows how to do it right will climb down out of their tower to set a good example for these noobys. Generally if a nooby joins your game and you dont kick them out of the lobby right away for not saying the rules theyll place their worms all over the place in your TTRR map and then quit shortly after. What a crappy experience that must be, right? Not for the person hosting the TTRR of course but, for the Nubby (we have /rs now so, if youre doing it right it shouldnt matter at all). More often though you ask the rules and then when they dont have the answer to your riddle you kick them out of the lobby before the game even starts and thats exactly what they go and do (if you have joined a Shopper game in the last year or so you know exactly what Im talking about).
Im sure you saw it coming but Im going to say it anyway- The example were setting is CRAP! Were either going to see noobys come and then go just as fast as they came while all the "Pros" fall off 1 by 1 by 1 or were going to see a Planet of the Apes scenario play out and whats left of the Wormnet culture will go from just degenerated to completely wiped out. I cant speak for everyone but, for the majority of you, its true that you wont be playing worms forever. Why not leave what you enjoyed about the Wormnet community behind for the next flock of newbs to experience (I have to assume it has been a rewarding experience for all of you so far or you wouldn't have stuck around or be trying to keep it alive today)? Why not come down out of your tower of pro-schemes every once in a while to play a few games and set an example for the noobys? You all need a break from your PX and TUS tournament games once in a while anyway right?
Set a good example, show them the culture, keep them around for more than a couple of days! If not - all of the work all of us are doing to preserve Wormnet is being done in vane.
TLDR; fufufu read it.
{PS} To iterate the idea of linking - its a good idea to network the information, resources, and various other websites together to make it all a little easier to find - currently a couple other worm addicts and I are constructing a website that will include a plethora of information when it is all complete including noob friendly roping tutorials, scheme how-tos, game play tips, and more. I have already included links to weirdjack, tus, wmdb, wormkit, and w2d. If you can think of any or maybe are the owner of any other site(s) that might be worthy of a link plz let a mofo know. I will disclose the website url when the project is in a more arrant state- until then; mystery!
-- one more fun thing to think about -- I saw on Reddit.com 3 weeks -> a month ago that Worms Armageddon was the most discussed / most popular topic for a while. Many people were impressed by the video links that were being posted and what not. Just thought Id share.
-
Good post you got there!
There's also a site for wormy videos specifically right now at http://wormtube.worms2d.info which is worth linking to. It includes a video by Cueshark called "I'm a noob", which basically sums up what you just said. In that aspect, that topic is still very much alive since we also realise fresh blood is what keeps this game alive.
I'd like to point out that more often than not, if someone joins my game whom I don't recognise, they don't answer me at all when I ask them if they know what hysteria means (or other schemes if that is the case). If they do answer, it's always worth the effort to adjust the map and perhaps scheme to show them the ropes, but if they don't, it's not worth the effort.
Perhaps it would be a good idea to encourage new players to ask more experienced players for help in getting to know the scheme if they are unfamiliar with them.
-
Who might that "undisclosed tuom.. I mean wormer" be??
Nice post clown, well done!
ps. A little idea popped into my mind. A wk module or an internal part of wa in the next update which shows the scheme's basic rules to whole lobby. Let's say if the host writes "/rules shopper" in the chat? Easy enough to code, right?
-
Very valuable post and your a good writer man.
This same subject has been noted and being discussed, and it wouldn't hurt to become more friendly community towards each other again (good old times, KRD made an awesome post about it)
Most working idea I see is the one Tuomatz suggested, theres a good few of us who see the trouble explaining newbs what's going on (depends on my mood sometimes though), especially franz is very friendly towards newbies.
How about we all try our best to be more friendly with the newbs, if they aint willing to talk (most aint), then there's not much to do really.
I don't want to discuss our future plans of how we plan to become more newb-friendly just yet because the main plan ain't finished yet but for example simply adding "Newbie" channel to worms lobby, with bot explaining how to get rules (!rules X scheme) would already be a step for right direction which should be easily implemented, right?
-
To be completely honest. When I joined WA again, the rule like CAK was new to me. This thing didn't even exist when I last played a couple of years ago.. at least to my knowledge. I did get kicked from a few hosts because of this. Even though I explained the rules.
I got to say, the community has dulled down quite a bit since I used to play. People are more elitist than before. I actually never play tus games anymore because everything turns so tense. Some don't even try to talk in the chat at all while playing matches. It's too bad because I find to be the most enjoyable since I used to find worms as a rather social game.
I agree with you iClown.
-
ummm what is cak?
-
ummm what is cak?
CBA, AFR, KTL. People shortened it in order to gain extra seconds before getting kicked from the host.
-
ok, thanks =)
-
ps. A little idea popped into my mind. A wk module or an internal part of wa in the next update which shows the scheme's basic rules to whole lobby. Let's say if the host writes "/rules shopper" in the chat? Easy enough to code, right?
Much better than a WK module: something like that is in plan for 4.0!
Those shoppers are noob shoppers. Hosts are usually people who can reliably rope, but not good enough for / not yet heard about leagues. It's their little competition for their skill level and they take it very seriously. They're in the learning phase regarding both the game and the attitude, ergo those games where noobs get kicked without explanation will always be there, until that feature gets done.
-
ummm what is cak?
CBA, AFR, KTL. People shortened it in order to gain extra seconds before getting kicked from the host.
Lol see, this is ridiculous.
-
When in the world did PACK become CAK?
-
When in the world did PACK become CAK?
Didnt knew it too, world is moving forward ;D
-
ps. A little idea popped into my mind. A wk module or an internal part of wa in the next update which shows the scheme's basic rules to whole lobby. Let's say if the host writes "/rules shopper" in the chat? Easy enough to code, right?
Much better than a WK module: something like that is in plan for 4.0!
Those shoppers are noob shoppers. Hosts are usually people who can reliably rope, but not good enough for / not yet heard about leagues. It's their little competition for their skill level and they take it very seriously. They're in the learning phase regarding both the game and the attitude, ergo those games where noobs get kicked without explanation will always be there, until that feature gets done.
we have a big project in this direction but let's go step by step.
-
When in the world did PACK become CAK?
Didnt knew it too, world is moving forward ;D
me too haha im felling an old ass :c
-
ps. A little idea popped into my mind. A wk module or an internal part of wa in the next update which shows the scheme's basic rules to whole lobby. Let's say if the host writes "/rules shopper" in the chat? Easy enough to code, right?
Much better than a WK module: something like that is in plan for 4.0!
Those shoppers are noob shoppers. Hosts are usually people who can reliably rope, but not good enough for / not yet heard about leagues. It's their little competition for their skill level and they take it very seriously. They're in the learning phase regarding both the game and the attitude, ergo those games where noobs get kicked without explanation will always be there, until that feature gets done.
we have a big project in this direction but let's go step by step.
Then it should be teaching people about the variations of shopper rules and the differences between funners and league games. Anyway, a WK module will hardly effect those games hosted by noobs with a noob attitude.
-
I was thinking about all of this and the thought that maybe, and just maybe, HostingBuddy is a major cause of all of this. Another thing I remember from when the community was still strong is that there was no HB and people would spam 'host shopper! host shopper!' in #AG. It was annoying but, they were forced to join our games and learn from their fellow wormers. If they wanted to host their own games they went to any number of websites that offer solutions and hosting alternatives instead of !host whatever.
Im sure we can all agree that HB games are dreadful anyway -- most random maps are bad, all of the schemes are made by trolls -- maybe there is a way we could get rid of it, at least for a period of time?
++ Thanks for all the support up in here!
Dark One: good call on the wormtube link- Ive added it. Cueshark video is made of lulz! xD
-
ps. A little idea popped into my mind. A wk module or an internal part of wa in the next update which shows the scheme's basic rules to whole lobby. Let's say if the host writes "/rules shopper" in the chat? Easy enough to code, right?
Much better than a WK module: something like that is in plan for 4.0!
Those shoppers are noob shoppers. Hosts are usually people who can reliably rope, but not good enough for / not yet heard about leagues. It's their little competition for their skill level and they take it very seriously. They're in the learning phase regarding both the game and the attitude, ergo those games where noobs get kicked without explanation will always be there, until that feature gets done.
we have a big project in this direction but let's go step by step.
Then it should be teaching people about the variations of shopper rules and the differences between funners and league games. Anyway, a WK module will hardly effect those games hosted by noobs with a noob attitude.
my vision is about having a minor league for people that just started to play and don't have pro skills but want to compete anyway. there is a lot of people out there that i'm sure would play such a thing. this would bring a lot more competitivity in this game, more interest. and TUS would benefit about this in long term period (more people starting playing competitively, more people will reach enough skills to play TUS). i've thougt of tournaments arranged between that minor league and TUS players, too.
but i think now is really too much early to talk about this, we will see how things envelope. lets go step by step! but i really love this excitement, i can feel the positive waves going, here :D
-
I was thinking about all of this and the thought that maybe, and just maybe, HostingBuddy is a major cause of all of this. Another thing I remember from when the community was still strong is that there was no HB and people would spam 'host shopper! host shopper!' in #AG. It was annoying but, they were forced to join our games and learn from their fellow wormers. If they wanted to host their own games they went to any number of websites that offer solutions and hosting alternatives instead of !host whatever.
Im sure we can all agree that HB games are dreadful anyway -- most random maps are bad, all of the schemes are made by trolls -- maybe there is a way we could get rid of it, at least for a period of time?
++ Thanks for all the support up in here!
Dark One: good call on the wormtube link- Ive added it. Cueshark video is made of lulz! xD
i agree about hostingbuddy but i also think that for now it's a very useful feature. the problem is just the community organization.
we should have a better "homepage" -> and with this i don't mean the TUS homepage, but just the way that newcomers "see" us.
why do you think that nlF had so much success back in times? i remember when i started worms: pretty much EVERYONE that was starting to play w:a was a nlF wannabe. well because they had a great "homepage". they looked cool, noob friendly but hard to join! so you would have to train a lot to ask the ambassadors a tryout. all was written down on their site, a lot of videos and nice gifs were available, all was fluid and working.
we want something like this. a youtube channel will bring people, a good place where to learn things about wa is needed.
but we don't need to do everything focused on noobs, we should just do the most simple thing ever: showing what we have. if people will get interested in this game they simply will start to follow the channel and learn things from there!
here we go! this is the "homepage" i was talking about. a good way to open the doors to the world.
-
Don't forget HB was made for a good purpose, it should be fixed instead of removed. I don't really know its flaws, never use it. But for example, I guess it can't host a proper BnG map and some schemes can be different from TUS "official" schemes. Anyway, people should be warned that it's not almighty. :D
OrangE, I see you already made a connection between the noob issue and the new project :)
I'm not really sure about the beginners' league idea. On one hand it can turn them into rule-maniac point hunters even more, but on the other hand I remember what struggle can it be to finally win some league games, motivation can be lost quite easily.
How would you imagine this separate league? Something like football divisions? The first "n" players after a specific number of seasons move to the higher division while last "n" moves down?
-
There are a gang of good ideas in here but, another thing worth discussing is, if everyone did agree on something - how do we get the ball rolling? how do we get the plan into motion?
Also I didn't mean we should get rid of HostingBuddy forever. I was thinking as a temporary thing-- It, no doubt about it, needs fixed up. Maybe we could get it pulled for the period of time that it would take to fix the code. WMDB now has a new user rating system - HostingBuddy should probably be coded so that its map selection process is based off of that. Also the schemes; whoever decided to use the current schemes, in some cases, just did it to be a troll. I think maybe that should maybe be updated and or voted on or at the least some user opinions should be included in that process.
There are several benefits that HostingBuddy provides but there may be just as many if not MORE benefits to the absence of it. Only one way to be sure about it...
-
We want to see all the creative ideas people have so we can use most value about approaching major audience and making this game more eSport worthy in the long run.
The balls are rolling, trust me, a lot of really big things are on planning stage but we don't want to talk about them until they are 100% certain.
When you enter wormnet, a bot says summin like "if your a newcomer and want to know the rules/general etiquette, type !rules", it would already work wonders to keep those who just come once, get booted out all the time and quit all together.
-
Don't forget HB was made for a good purpose, it should be fixed instead of removed. I don't really know its flaws, never use it. But for example, I guess it can't host a proper BnG map and some schemes can be different from TUS "official" schemes. Anyway, people should be warned that it's not almighty. :D
OrangE, I see you already made a connection between the noob issue and the new project :)
I'm not really sure about the beginners' league idea. On one hand it can turn them into rule-maniac point hunters even more, but on the other hand I remember what struggle can it be to finally win some league games, motivation can be lost quite easily.
How would you imagine this separate league? Something like football divisions? The first "n" players after a specific number of seasons move to the higher division while last "n" moves down?
yeah something like that! something close to a ranked system i'd say ;)
-
Im still working on everything here but I figured Id go ahead a share with you good people what Ive got done so far. Remember; its all under construction still - A lot of tidying up to do! You should get a good idea of what were trying to do though.
http://www.foreverleet.net23.net/
Any feedback is welcome. :D
-
Im still working on everything here but I figured Id go ahead a share with you good people what Ive got done so far. Remember; its all under construction still - A lot of tidying up to do! You should get a good idea of what were trying to do though.
http://www.foreverleet.net23.net/
Any feedback is welcome. :D
Nice site! I really like the neat layout man. :) Keep working on it, it's gonna be a great resource!