The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Worms: Armageddon => General discussion => Topic started by: j0e on November 26, 2018, 03:59 AM
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I've suggested this idea before and it's been shot down. Basically it would be nice for CS and DC to make some financial gain from WA's development, even if it's little more than a token amount.
They've been opposed to this idea because they don't want to be pressured with deadlines or mandatory specifications, and they have other obligations of course. By my way of thinking a large part of this donation would be in appreciation for work already done, with few actual development requirements. But what I do want to see are regular news updates (a simple short post every month or three) and a sense of life/hope to the continuance of WA's legacy. Now that some time has passed is there any change in perception of this idea? Obviously DC and CS would have to be on board or it's a non-starter.
I'm thinking a 1 year Kickstarter goal of up to $15000 USD might be attainable. This would indeed just be a token amount --- maybe there is a way to get them more money?
We could have a stretch goal for some larger joint project with Team 17 wherein CS and DC become paid developers with a leading role and absolute final say. Nothing as large and ambitious as WA 4.0 of course, just something marketable and substantial. Without checking, I seem to remember that a lot of the technical challenges of WA 4.0 were for technical benefits. Hopefully nobody has to rewrite the whole game from scratch, but there would unavoidably be lots of technical challenges for DC and CS to work out. In this partnership scenario our Kickstarter donations could be pre-orders to Team17 for the "remastered" WA, in return for CS and DC being given competitive multi-year contracts by Team 17. They could offer a discount for people who already own it on Steam.
Team 17 is worth $300m USD and they're probably ready for another project now that WMD has flopped. Worms is their biggest franchise and they've been driving it into the ground. There's got to be some potential there to figure out. They're seeking a new market niche as game publishers rather than developers, so they'd be fine with their role being primarily monetary. They could contribute nonessential developmental work such as updated graphical skins (switchable, not affecting gameplay, in WA's pixel style), and Steam achievements or whatever that would allow them to market updates as a big anniversary remaster. Team 17 could also contribute marketable new game content (weapons and such), since CS and DC have stated that doing so is not one of their primary goals. Team 17 would have to submit to receiving guidance of course to maintain WA's vision and so they include new strategic things as well as more explosions. Team 17's development cost for this would be much lower than for an all-new Worms game and the result would be far better.
In a partnership, how can Team17 be sure to make their money back? Our preorders won't cover it. How about opening Worms back up to a global audience? The Chinese/Korean games were huge with millions of players. All we need is to add unicode support and a translation bot for in-game text. Team 17 could arrange for the necessary servers/licenses. Other than that they can sell custom worm skins (cute little asian worms anyone?), flaming power bars, or whatever. Hopefully nothing that affects the actual fair gameplay, but I guess different lobbies could have different policies regarding p2w boosts and new noob-oriented luck-based content.
Deadcode and Cybershadow are literally geniuses - none of this can happen without them. No better Worms game will ever be made without their direct involvement.
I didn't spend much time organizing my thoughts, so as not to get too wed to any single idea. That is probably best for discussion.. so let's discuss!
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Do we even know DC and CS are even still doing WA coding? Are they even still interested?
I'd love to see 4.0, anything else not really interested in, i'd definitely chip in some cash to see a 4.0 though.
All the suggested features for 4.0 is something many of us have dreamed of for so long, it's such a shame copyright and other legal stuff ruins the potential for such dramatic and hugely desired improvements and updates for the game/community.
Like most things in life, money/copyright ruins it.
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I would rather fund a proper remaster of W:A, like the one Blizzard is doing with Warcraft 3. New technology for modern gaming, the fundamental online capacity is ancient and so outdated it is really hard to go back to W:A when all newer games are vastly superior in that regard. The game is great, the online interaction sucks major balls. We just got used to it, but objectively the online part of W:A is basic, ancient, outdated and simply garbage by todays standards. :D
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you'd be better off buying WA rights from T17
EDIT:
In a partnership, how can Team17 be sure to make their money back? Our preorders won't cover it.
Does YouTube count as marketing? Look at how many guest soundbanks there are of multiple YouTubers in WMD
How about opening Worms back up to a global audience? The Chinese/Korean games were huge with millions of players. All we need is to add unicode support and a translation bot for in-game text. Team 17 could arrange for the necessary servers/licenses.
1. I wish you luck cramming 2 more alphabets in this kind of limitation. Also Polish plz (https://worms2d.info/WA_character_table)
2. not really a bot, just language files.
3. Are you sure that they are able host servers internationally?
Other than that they can sell custom worm skins (cute little asian worms anyone?), flaming power bars, or whatever. Hopefully nothing that affects the actual fair gameplay, but I guess different lobbies could have different policies regarding p2w boosts and new noob-oriented luck-based content.
If Worms becomes p2w I'm killing myself
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it is really hard to go back to W:A when all newer games are vastly superior in that regard.
Elaborate please.
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Anubis is trying to sabotage wa with every chance he gets haha. At least thats what i got from his posts in last few years..
With 5 minutes of setup you get best turn-based multiplayer experience in history of gaming but some ppl just wanna see the world burn :D
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it is really hard to go back to W:A when all newer games are vastly superior in that regard.
Elaborate please.
The online experience is not modern, the interface and actually finding games is ancient. I have talked about this in a different thread already that you agreed on, lol.
And Sensei, as if I can sabotage W:A, how would I do that? You think I have any influence on anyone? The few that actually know me on TUS already made up their mind or stopped playing. There is no innocent player to protect, the game is very likely to die at some point, nothing lasts forever etc. :D Especially when nobody maintains it anymore and nothing changes. Don't need to sugarcoat reality.
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the game is very likely to die at some point, nothing lasts forever etc. :D Especially when nobody maintains it anymore and nothing changes. Don't need to sugarcoat reality.
Myself or any familiar wormer cat are not living in fantasy world or "sugarcoating" anything. Plenty of us just enjoys to be around community, voice chat and have some fun times worming. Also, always around to help out newcomers with getting to know how this thing works. Nothing too hectic.
Although, in most of your post you're prognosticising or wishing this game is dead for a long time now. With every f@#!ing chance you get you want to say something negative. What the actual f@#! is wrong with you man? How much negative thoughts you can spread around this community? I'm not even exaggerating. Just take a look at your previous comments and do 2+2. I mean, what's the point behind all of that? Coming into only place that this game still has and trying to force that "wa will eventually die" shit upon all of us. Nobody cares man. Just relax and enjoy it while it's around or.. don't even be around, again - nobody cares.
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Anubis, I was looking for some examples or something.
Sensei, he's just giving his opinion man, no need to lose your sh*t over it, it's not like you haven't been negative in the past, difference is, you've been negative towards people, he's just stating a fact, this game is dying... And his insight is actually credible and makes a lot of sense.
We've all offered to fund work for 4.0 etc but DC/CS aren't interested, it's the fault of no one, this game has been around for a legendary time, and still is! Be happy with what's left! :)
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They've answered no in the past. Maybe due to modesty or some impermanent factor. Everyone's financial situation changes. Maybe now they would be interested? Maybe if we could get Team17 biting a bit first they'd warm to the idea? I think only they can answer for themselves.
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I haven't been on #Worms(IRC) for a long time, does anyone here still talk with DC/CS and be willing to ask them about some serious effort on 4.0 if we can help finance their work?
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I think the best bet would be to get Team 17 involved as the main source of funding. Not just because they are stinking rich, but they have substantial programming and artistic resources literally going to waste.
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the game is very likely to die at some point, nothing lasts forever etc. :D Especially when nobody maintains it anymore and nothing changes. Don't need to sugarcoat reality.
Myself or any familiar wormer cat are not living in fantasy world or "sugarcoating" anything. Plenty of us just enjoys to be around community, voice chat and have some fun times worming. Also, always around to help out newcomers with getting to know how this thing works. Nothing too hectic.
Although, in most of your post you're prognosticising or wishing this game is dead for a long time now. With every f@#!ing chance you get you want to say something negative. What the actual f@#! is wrong with you man? How much negative thoughts you can spread around this community? I'm not even exaggerating. Just take a look at your previous comments and do 2+2. I mean, what's the point behind all of that? Coming into only place that this game still has and trying to force that "wa will eventually die" shit upon all of us. Nobody cares man. Just relax and enjoy it while it's around or.. don't even be around, again - nobody cares.
I don't know what is wrong with you mate, you keep getting enraged when you talk with me. I remember you said you were disappointed by how I act on Steam some time ago. Your negativity towards me is really disheartening and a bad representation in this small community, like Komodo has said I am merely stating my opinion and just like Komodo I can actually compare now and then. Nobody that has been around as long as me is really happy with the state of W:A and I would like for it to grow back to it's former glory. Of course you can enjoy W:A in it's current state, I never disagreed with that.
My initial post was actually a positive one by the way, I would want W:A to be remastered (not the game) I am thinking the UI, online match making needs to be brought into 2018 since it's initial release nothing has changed in that regard. In fact, we lost an important feature, no more ranked game. We are all forced onto TUS to have competitive play. I think it would revitalize the game if the whole accessibility for competitive play was revamped and improved.
Anubis, I was looking for some examples or something.
- Ranked/Casual match making needs to be implemented so you don't need to idle in a chat channel and spam messages to find games.
- The UI could need a rework since it looks straight from 2000
- Be able to rejoin games if you drop out of a game (which might be a 4.0 feature?)
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This site lives of repetitive posts. I don't have anything against you. But as we all here are repetitive forum junkies, your negativity about current state of a game and comparisons with long forgotten times are sticking out of every post last year or two. And they've started to get on my nerves. I know they shouldn't but they do. As you're entitled to your opinion, I am as well.
Even this whole thread by joe is a fkn recycle. We've seen it 5 times already. But who cares. It's positive and in best wish of something new and better to happen. I'll support this over "wa is dead. It was fun 2002., the end is near..." at any time of a day.
Sorry if you thought of it as some kind of personal attack cause there was no intention. Just don't fancy inactive ppl talking about the game. You're right, I'm the problem in this case.
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This site lives of repetitive posts. I don't have anything against you. But as we all here are repetitive forum junkies, your negativity about current state of a game and comparisons with long forgotten times are sticking out of every post last year or two. And they've started to get on my nerves. I know they shouldn't but they do. As you're entitled to your opinion, I am as well.
Even this whole thread by joe is a fkn recycle. We've seen it 5 times already. But who cares. It's positive and in best wish of something new and better to happen. I'll support this over "wa is dead. It was fun 2002., the end is near..." at any time of a day.
Sorry if you thought of it as some kind of personal attack cause there was no intention. Just don't fancy inactive ppl talking about the game. You're right, I'm the problem in this case.
When I say W:A was better back in the days I mean for the most part the amount of competitive players, it's a simple fact that more players were active in leagues. Don't you want the activity back that TUS used to have? Look at past seasons and see how little games are played now, there is no incentive for competitive players to ever come back to this game. I think part of the problem is that you are happy/content with current situation because you never were highly competitive to begin with. You are okay with casually playing a funner now and then and enjoy the game. That's fine and the game is okay if you just enjoy it that way and will probably work until the day you die since you can just play with your small circle of friends. But that's not what I want, and that's why I express my "negativity". How else am I supposed to show my opinion other than saying the game is not fun the way it is now? I can't, I have to address the bad parts (imo) of the current state of the game.
And as you can see, I have already stated how I imagine the bad parts could be fixed. By improving the accessibility of ranked play directly through the game/UI.
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you never were highly competitive to begin with. You are okay with casually playing a funner now and then and enjoy the game. That's fine and the game is okay if you just enjoy it that way and will probably work until the day you die since you can just play with your small circle of friends. But that's not what I want, and that's why I express my "negativity".
I have 1397 ranked games played in last 4 years.
Highly competitive hahahh.. I was never creme de la creme of tus, mediocre at best.. But mastered few schemes that i enjoyed to play and proved it against numerous players.
There was literally abundance of ppl to play against in these last 8 years of your stay on tus, Anubis.
"Highly competitive" ones as well. Guess you just liked to do warmers with small circle of friends, rather than compete..
EDIT: sorry for off topic joe. I'm out anyway. Probably nothing will happen but I like what you're doing. Also great job with steam discussion threads for newcomers. You're fore sure most active guy there when someone is in a search for help. Keep it up. Peace
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Worms Armageddon is not dead, and never was. Just because you and your friends have stopped playing the game, new people will always come. This is a normal phase that we all might have experienced, we play, people go, we get bored, and we move on. So what I'm trying to say here is, just because people move on, don't make a game dead. This can apply for any other games. I'm sure if a few people left CS GO, it wouldn't make it dead, same for WA.
WA activity is as active now as it once was 14 years ago when it comes to player activity. It's just that the competitive part is dying.
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Worms Armageddon isn't dead.
But Worms Armageddon as we know it, is dead.
Anubis is spot on with everything he has said, Team17 has shunned the game for many years now, the game could be completely revamped with updated matchmaking systems and other stuff, but they aren't interested.
If only one of us were a billionaire, or could convince daina to marry one...
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I would rather fund a proper remaster of W:A, like the one Blizzard is doing with Warcraft 3. New technology for modern gaming, the fundamental online capacity is ancient and so outdated it is really hard to go back to W:A when all newer games are vastly superior in that regard. The game is great, the online interaction sucks major balls. We just got used to it, but objectively the online part of W:A is basic, ancient, outdated and simply garbage by todays standards. :D
Yes, not only the gameplay infrastructure and technology are outdated, but also the codebase is full of hacks and workarounds that nobody wants to delve in and maintain I believe, so it's just easier to write it all from scratch with the proper architecture. ???
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Team17 doesn't have the skill or organizational culture to create a proper Worms game from scratch. There's nobody good left in their company, just soulless profit suckers. A WA update/remaster is our last hope for the Worms franchise. The gameplay isn't outdated, and that's the most important part.
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so it's just easier to write it all from scratch with the proper architecture. ???
Speaking of which, how is your project coming along?
Do you have footage you can send me so I can start making some audio?
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Worms Armageddon isn't dead.
But Worms Armageddon as we know it, is dead.
Anubis is spot on with everything he has said, Team17 has shunned the game for many years now, the game could be completely revamped with updated matchmaking systems and other stuff, but they aren't interested.
If only one of us were a billionaire, or could convince daina to marry one...
Sorry, I couldn't resist. ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/WtA2F35.jpg)
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you never were highly competitive to begin with. You are okay with casually playing a funner now and then and enjoy the game. That's fine and the game is okay if you just enjoy it that way and will probably work until the day you die since you can just play with your small circle of friends. But that's not what I want, and that's why I express my "negativity".
I have 1397 ranked games played in last 4 years.
Highly competitive hahahh.. I was never creme de la creme of tus, mediocre at best.. But mastered few schemes that i enjoyed to play and proved it against numerous players.
There was literally abundance of ppl to play against in these last 8 years of your stay on tus, Anubis.
"Highly competitive" ones as well. Guess you just liked to do warmers with small circle of friends, rather than compete..
EDIT: sorry for off topic joe. I'm out anyway. Probably nothing will happen but I like what you're doing. Also great job with steam discussion threads for newcomers. You're fore sure most active guy there when someone is in a search for help. Keep it up. Peace
Of course I have played 4 years ago, I had a semi-active phase in dt, I made 2 clans, one with with barman, komo and one I made with ropa and Kaleu. I engaged with the best ttrr player in recent history (sbaffo), so what is the point you are making? You played competitive games, well so did I. You can bath in your games played on TUS all you want, it doesn't change anything about the current state, which is funny you guys usually are the first to complain about us oldies that we only care about the past, well I am here telling you the present is f@#!ed but "oldies of TUS" are ignoring the fact that W:A is dying in-front of your eyes and you don't even acknowledge it. :D
4 Years ago the game wasn't as competitively dead as it is in the past year or two. I can dig up my past as well where I played thousands of singles/clanners prior to TUS, what's the point? We are not debating the past, I thought this was obvious.
The point is, I could always go back to TUS and get competitive, as you can clearly see in my history I did just that. Nowadays? Nope, and that's what our discussion is about. W:A as a competitive game is near it's dying breath.
I remember in recent years when a topic about "W:A is dying" was always nah mate, it's summer, the people will all come back in Winter. It doesn't take a genius that it continually gets less and less active. Now you will jump out of the bush and tell me: WELL THEN PLAY MOAR, YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT TOO. No, I am not, a healthy competitive community does not rely on single individuals let alone old players such as myself. We already had our no-life phase where we played 24/7, were super engaged and made projects and tbh our "version" of W:A was more successful in that regard, no issues with new blood pouring in. I am not blaming you for what has happened to W:A. But damn it, stop blaming me when I state the f@#!ing obvious because you guys will keep defending a part of W:A that is a shell of what it used to be.
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do I need popcorn?
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do I need popcorn?
Nah this thread is dead.
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How about getting Andy Davidson involved?
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How about getting Andy Davidson involved?
That would be great. Where is that guy?
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How about getting Andy Davidson involved?
That would be great. Where is that guy?
last time i heard about him, he was updating Worms: The Directors Cut.
EDIT- Source: http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2018-06-00009-EN.html
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Wow, so he's still interested in Worms, and in writing patches for old Worms games. I wonder if he has access to the WA source code. He might be just the spark needed to get things going.
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i do think its an interesting idea to try and crowdsource money to fund a remastered version of WA. The biggest challenge will be getting T17 onboard so that they could see a return on investment for the money that would be put in the game, even if its not their money, they'd need some percentage of profit on the rights as own the trademark on WA.
Nothing is impossible and worms is still a strong brand that nearly everyone knows and remembers, there just needs to be a profitable business case for T17 to be the slightest bit interested.
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a remastered version of WA in their mind is WMD. We all know how that ended
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a remastered version of WA in their mind is WMD. We all know how that ended
Yes, Worms WMD is a cheap knockoff of Worms Armageddon with none of the quality.
Plus, I bet that all of the weapons can be coded in Worms Armageddon with Project X anyways.