The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Worms: Armageddon => General discussion => Topic started by: Pixy on December 24, 2015, 05:22 PM
-
Why not? I mean shit's like not even 10% done I'm sure it would come faster if we actually funded it instead of sitting here doing nothing expecting other people to work for free.
-
We would love to but from what i've heard they simply don't have the time cuz they have like, you know, lifes...
-
4.0 is looking like a lost cause. Still waiting for a hotfix for the gravestone selection bug...
-
I would support this.
-
$100 would not help, need much more. R U Rdy? I guess you are not.
-
From what I've read on the wiki the intent was/is to create a new WormNet incompatible with the current WormNet (because it was to have secure login andso-on...), which would probably mean closing down the older one. This would mean the death of mods like rubberworm and PX. Sure the rubberworm features could be implemented in 4.0, but PX would be lost. If that would be the case I say no thanks to 4.0, I would prefer PX to be maintained and updated, and kept compatible with newer WA versions.
-
I don't even consider PX part of the game, sure I respect it and the work certain people put to it, but anything that can't be played as a standard part of the game is useless to the majority of players, at least until the point where it can be merged with the standard game as simply as installing the 3.0+ patches.
-
Sure Komito I know many ppl think like you, I can only say I've been playing PX for years and I can't even imagine WA without PX anymore, it's literally all I play, there are so many different kinds and fun PX schemes. Any time you think, well if only Worms could be like this or like that, or if only this was possible, well it all IS possible with PX. :)
I'm certain this counts for many of you: once you go PX, you never go back. Ppl just don't realize the possibilities.
-
We realize the possibilities, it just isn't convenient enough :(
-
Here's my idea: carry over the old wormnet channels in-name only. That way, we can still have a #PartyTime and a #AnythingGoes. Also, make PX & Fiddler files convertable into FiddlerX (or whatever it's going to be called) files. Plus, you can have WA 3.x replays be compatible, which would especially help Worms Armageddon archives.
-
Sure Komito I know many ppl think like you, I can only say I've been playing PX for years and I can't even imagine WA without PX anymore, it's literally all I play, there are so many different kinds and fun PX schemes. Any time you think, well if only Worms could be like this or like that, or if only this was possible, well it all IS possible with PX. :)
I'm certain this counts for many of you: once you go PX, you never go back. Ppl just don't realize the possibilities.
The base game is good enough, never thought any of the PX features and schemes impressed me.
-
Sure Komito I know many ppl think like you, I can only say I've been playing PX for years and I can't even imagine WA without PX anymore, it's literally all I play, there are so many different kinds and fun PX schemes. Any time you think, well if only Worms could be like this or like that, or if only this was possible, well it all IS possible with PX. :)
I'm certain this counts for many of you: once you go PX, you never go back. Ppl just don't realize the possibilities.
The base game is good enough, never thought any of the PX features and schemes impressed me.
+1
PX can be good and stuff, but it is still unstable graphic-wise (it makes the game lag, for example, or several details are lost while moving the screen rapidly). It has fun schemes and all, but I don't think we're talking about a majority here (it works with democracy, right?...)
By the way, I think that people should be thankful of the actual state of the game. What else can you ask for? We've got a good server, plenty of schemes, features and gamemodes, maps, replays (Even PX, amirite, Raffie?, and gexgeko, etc...) We've got this great page named TUS, too... Why don't you stop a moment and think about the people that have been working on the game? It isn't like they only work for the money. No. They could be working in something else and earning a ton of money (for example, StepS); remember this game is (20?) years old. They don't need money exclusively; they need time, patience, and a good pack of programming knowledge. There isn't even a reason for them to be working in this game. Instead, we can all work on having a better community: we can stop booting noobs out of the games without giving them a reason, we can start telling people what the rules are... That way we can grow a better community. We've got to work with what we've got right at the moment.
The only thing that we could use help with at the moment, are the cheaters. They've been around for a while.
-
Sure Komito I know many ppl think like you, I can only say I've been playing PX for years and I can't even imagine WA without PX anymore, it's literally all I play, there are so many different kinds and fun PX schemes. Any time you think, well if only Worms could be like this or like that, or if only this was possible, well it all IS possible with PX. :)
I'm certain this counts for many of you: once you go PX, you never go back. Ppl just don't realize the possibilities.
The base game is good enough, never thought any of the PX features and schemes impressed me.
+1
PX can be good and stuff, but it is still unstable graphic-wise (it makes the game lag, for example, or several details are lost while moving the screen rapidly). It has fun schemes and all, but I don't think we're talking about a majority here (it works with democracy, right?...)
By the way, I think that people should be thankful of the actual state of the game. What else can you ask for? We've got a good server, plenty of schemes, features and gamemodes, maps, replays (Even PX, amirite, Raffie?, and gexgeko, etc...) We've got this great page named TUS, too... Why don't you stop a moment and think about the people that have been working on the game? It isn't like they only work for the money. No. They could be working in something else and earning a ton of money (for example, StepS); remember this game is (20?) years old. They don't need money exclusively; they need time, patience, and a good pack of programming knowledge. There isn't even a reason for them to be working in this game. Instead, we can all work on having a better community: we can stop booting noobs out of the games without giving them a reason, we can start telling people what the rules are... That way we can grow a better community. We've got to work with what we've got right at the moment.
The only thing that we could use help with at the moment, are the cheaters. They've been around for a while.
How to get rid of the cheaters lol
-
What we need and only need is the possibility to continue matches via replay files.
-
What we need and only need is the possibility to continue matches via replay files.
Not from replay, but from dropped game. Otherwise some cheater would continue from replay until they have some nice result. Basically when someone drops, there should be an option for pause the game and wait. When dropped guy joins wormnet, wormnet should give a notification like: "The game you have disconnected from is still on, do you want to rejoin?"
-
Ok then lets do it like that
-
What we need and only need is the possibility to continue matches via replay files.
Not from replay, but from dropped game. Otherwise some cheater would continue from replay until they have some nice result. Basically when someone drops, there should be an option for pause the game and wait. When dropped guy joins wormnet, wormnet should give a notification like: "The game you have disconnected from is still on, do you want to rejoin?"
Maybe it CAN be from replay. Of course, it'll be classified as an offline game, to reduce cheating.
-
Would be nice if WA could save its state at the start of each turn or be able to wait a dropped player as mentioned above.
-
Not from replay, but from dropped game. Otherwise some cheater would continue from replay until they have some nice result. Basically when someone drops, there should be an option for pause the game and wait. When dropped guy joins wormnet, wormnet should give a notification like: "The game you have disconnected from is still on, do you want to rejoin?"
I agree that implementing some way of preventing or continuing after disconnects is easily the most important thing that can be done to improve WA.
I like your rejoining idea, Triad. Seems elegant and simple enough. However (and just guessing since i'm not a programmer) something tells me it's very hard to code to allow a player to join a game in progress (even if paused). Especially without using the disconnected player's replay file -- we can't even play back replays at a given point in time without fast forwarding. And, whether you do or don't use his replay file, it still won't work for cases where he disconnected because of desynchronization. The desynched player has a different account of events. He could only rejoin if he and/or the host could rewind online gamestates/replays, which as you said would open the doors to cheaters. The single-step tool Deadcode used for his famous Pi Mission Impossible II roperace replay worked using the same principle.
I think forcing more reconnection attempts before the player actually drops would be an adequate substitute for rejoining in the way you proposed. Right now it doesn't seem like many reconnection attempts are made. If a player's wi-fi drops for a split second he will disconnect instantly. If a player lags for more than a few seconds he is usually 'doomed'. The game should attempt to re-establish connections more aggressively before a player drops. This would probably require an actual WA update to change.
However, disconnects from desynchronization are also a big part of the disconnection problem. Neither of our suggestions so far would allow resuming games in which a player desynched.
The following solution SHOULD work for both dropped and desynched games, be relatively easy to code, convenient for players, negate cheater risk, and not require a WA update. It would also make my above suggestion of more aggressive reconnecting behaviour much less important. TBH I'm a bit proud of this idea :P.
Here goes:
If you want to continue a dropped game, you send Hostingbuddy your replay via a short text command. For example "!desynch j0e" or "!resume j0e" (to resume just before j0e desynched/lagged out). Hostingbuddy automatically extracts map in the state it was in and rehosts game. Hostingbuddy uses a hypothetical custom wormkit module to give players the weapons they had. And to mimic SD timer, who gets first turn, water level, etc. (The current scheme format is not flexible enough to allow individual team weapons yet). And Hostingbuddy disables all unnecessary wormkit modules and/or standardizes the scheme to avoid a second desynch. Hostingbuddy only lets players with the same IP address as the original players join (to help avoid nickname change/player switching). HB gets lots of data on dropped games, as a side benefit.
If HB already gets the replay for games it hosts (which I somehow doubt) the extraction/rehost could be even more seamless using the !again command.
In layman theory, the Hostingbuddy method maybe could be implemented without updating the game.
Not from replay, but from dropped game. Otherwise some cheater would continue from replay until they have some nice result.
Letting Hostingbuddy handle resuming games avoids the cheater risk you mentioned (quoted). No additional rewinding powers in game to hack/abuse. And it's maybe easier for developers to implement if a patch doesn't have to be approved by Team17. Hostingbuddy has also received some great updates recently, so there's momentum in that direction.
Just interested in the topic/discussion and thinking out loud here, mostly. Like gabriel said, I'm extremely grateful for the state the game is in already.
I'm one of those people that thinks j0e's worms page was, in fact, the ultimate site.
Thank you! That was a hella long time ago. But TUS is easily better in every way. Except TUS doesn't have pages and pages full of geeky 12 year old child outpourings .. unless you go on the forums lol.
-
I'm one of those people that thinks j0e's worms page was, in fact, the ultimate site.
-
That is a spectacular idea joe! It does indeed sound easy enough to implement.
Only problem being, it sounds like it's exclusive to HostingBuddy, at the moment, I only use HostingBuddy when I want new Big RR maps cuz WMDB is the worst place to find Big RR maps, you look for Big RR and get all these stupid tower race and tight rr maps that go on forever... Anyway...
The best thing imo to happen for HostingBuddy, would be what you suggested with the addition of actually being able to edit the scheme/map as you would normally if you were hosting, that, is the holy grail of hosting imo...
-
That is a spectacular idea joe! It does indeed sound easy enough to implement.
Only problem being, it sounds like it's exclusive to HostingBuddy, at the moment, I only use HostingBuddy when I want new Big RR maps cuz WMDB is the worst place to find Big RR maps, you look for Big RR and get all these stupid tower race and tight rr maps that go on forever... Anyway...
The best thing imo to happen for HostingBuddy, would be what you suggested with the addition of actually being able to edit the scheme/map as you would normally if you were hosting, that, is the holy grail of hosting imo...
Glad you think it's a good idea!
The following post is officially a mess. Way too many edits. Read at your own peril. TL;DR below.
My suggestion isn't necessarily HB exclusive. It would use a new wormkit module to get the map and settings and verify IP addresses. The wormkit module could be used with or without HB. The purpose of using HB would be convenience, not to keep privileged access to game settings or mechanics out of the hands of the user to prevent abuse. HB wouldn't need to be given any secret special powers. All HB was going to do in my proposal was host the game and load the custom wormkit module. The wk module would assign specific weapons to teams, set hard to set settings like remaining round time, and standardize the scheme --- eg remove superweapon crate probability values. Which is precisely why it shouldn't require a WA update. HB would just be a way to automate things, to host conveniently in a standardized way, and to alert the players if the host changed anything. No reason (that I can see) why that automation can't be done by just a wormkit module.
The main thing i was unclear about in my first post: From WA's perspective any resumed game would be a completely new game, not fast forwarded or anything. Nothing abnormal in the settings except team weapons. (edit: also individually defined worms health values and status .. a little more tricky maybe). In theory it doesn't have to be any more complicated to resume games with the "Hostingbuddy suggestion" method than to resume by hosting normally or by using Wormnat2, depending how the wk module is automated. Sorry if this is a bit incoherent and repetitive.
It would actually be less complicated without HB for two reasons. First, because you take wmdb out of the equation for hosting and redownloading maps in their aborted state. Second, because HB can't currently load custom wormkit modules like Rubberworm, PX, or the theoretical wkResume module.
But wait, how would the wk module recreate flame particles from a petrol bomb? Maybe you couldn't resume when flames are on the map. That would be acceptable in most cases, compared to the alternative of not being able to resume at all, ever. If you started complicating things by altering game logic by adding petrol-teleports and wind manipulation or something, that would create an opportunity for hackers/cheaters. And be a lot harder to make. In theory maybe only Hostingbuddy could have the 'full version' module which allows weird game logic fixes, and the wk module distributed for compatibility to all the players wouldn't include any of the code that could be hacked and abused. This would make it HB exclusive and would go against a lot of things I said in paragraph 1. But this is getting way too complicated, and would be better to just not allow resuming at points where flames were present. If wormkit can't set the flames, which I'm assuming it can't.
Another problem related to the petrol issue. Weapon crates aren't determined until collected, unless Crate Spy has been used. If flames are on the map, and then someone gets a really nice crate before the game disconnects and before the flames disappear, they won't be able to keep that weapon. The game will roll back to before the flames. After resuming the game, the crate will fall again, but probably be different. Same idea for favourable wind, which I'm pretty sure is basically random too, influenced by worm location.
Given that, the rest of this post is slightly off-topic. I got a bit carried away here.
____
Original response to Komito:
I agree, being able to natively edit stuff while using HB would be nice. If not just for how widely used it is - a lot of people would notice the benefits.
An alternative method to editing HB settings more conveniently ---- I wonder if anyone would want to create a pre-game lobby screen and map editor for one of the existing Snooper programs. All the options (game, weapon etc) could fit on one screen. Any changes could be automatically communicated to Hostingbuddy with the text commands. Map changes could be uploaded to wmdb and loaded by HB automatically. Finer details and color maps could be edited with the new map editor, with a box tool to move stuff around, copy/paste, zoom, etc. Random maps of any size could be generated with wkMapGen. Finer scheme changes would be possible and make SchemeEddy unnecessary. And it could all be skinned to look similar to the original frontend, like Wheat Snooper (which is open source). A lot of the work might just be patching together various programs wormers have already made. It'd be one step closer to ditching the obsolete frontend altogether.
Actually I think Komito's suggestion to be able to edit normally in the frontend while using HB is probably better than the snooper one. Either would be good. Snooper would give a bit more versatility, at the big cost of accessibility. All the noobs trying to host with HB would still be lost and confused. Unless the snooper was officially packaged with WA, which I don't see happening.
Either way fixing the disconnects issue should be the top priority IMO. Since frontend HB integration would mean more work for CS/DC and possibly delay the true hosting holy grail of 4.0. And since normal style hosting/editing (and resuming, in theory, with an additional wk module) can already be achieved with WormNat2.
____
TL;DR: My idea should still work with or without HB. With some limitations. It would probably not be feasible be able to resume the game when petrol flames were on the map. Unless wormkit can be used to somehow precisely place each flamelet on the map when the game starts. Bad for schemes like Hysteria or Burning Girders. If a weapon crate was collected while flames were present and the disconnect occurs before the flames are gone, the crate will not be kept when the game is resumed. The game will roll back to before the flames, and the crates will be different when they next fall (unless a team had crate spy). Not sure if a Wormkit module can set individual worm health and status on game start --- can PX do this? If Wormkit can't do all that alone, then a WA update would be needed for my idea to work.
-
hey j0e only read ur TL;DR so far and the cons you mentioned are very minor, they can be handled between players easily in the game. pros so far are over 9000 =) very good idea!
-
Texts are too long but implement it now for f@#!s sake. We are rdy for the Worms future always have been.
-
i didn't read all the stuff, but think about.. if they even don't want money and just want to work on this project, when they want.
worms armageddon works great like it is at the moment, just be patient.
-
By the way, if anything, we should be donating for keeping PX alive, work out some kinks, maybe better usability so noobs can make their own schemes too, keep it updated with new WA versions,... Stuff like that.
PX can be a bit like 4.0, but better; it works kinda like an open source WA, anyone can write libs and contribute to new features! Think about it!
-
PX source code needs to be released already. And then integrated (or at least made compatible) with the current official version. With 2 versions of the game to maintain and fill with players, PX will never reach critical mass. It will die a pathetic tragic death as its users slowly bleed off and start playing Call of Duty 10 or whatever.
Entuser has been unresponsive to all attempts to contact him. I'd want to know that he's alive and willing to release his source before I donated to him. I can't understand why he'd want his brilliant creation to be such a waste of potential. Are any of his old friends still around that could reach out to him?
Entuser's forum account on http://worms.org.ua has an email address and ICQ handle. Must be registered member to view them. Can someone (a friend?) message him? If not I will register later.
Anyone know what this is? It's about 25000 lines of PX-related code :o. http://www.pastebin.ca/2825624
edit: ZexorZ says it's the PX scheme source code, not everything
Not to make a bad tone. I'm not trying to pressure anyone to do anything they don't want to do.
-
Entuser has been unresponsive to all attempts to contact him. I'd want to know that he's alive and willing to release his source before I donated to him. I can't understand why he'd want his brilliant creation to be such a waste of potential. Are any of his old friends still around that could reach out to him?
I can confirm that he's alive and willing to release his source (under certain conditions, such as finding everything needed for it to work...). Last time I contacted him was in April 2015. He has been very busy with his studies in the recent years. It's not certain but he might show up more often starting this year.
The best thing imo to happen for HostingBuddy, would be what you suggested with the addition of actually being able to edit the scheme/map as you would normally if you were hosting, that, is the holy grail of hosting imo...
This can be implemented as a WormKit module (easy, but time-consuming due to the amount of stuff in HB), except for the map. Should I invest my time into this or make something else?
-
The best thing imo to happen for HostingBuddy, would be what you suggested with the addition of actually being able to edit the scheme/map as you would normally if you were hosting, that, is the holy grail of hosting imo...
This can be implemented as a WormKit module (easy, but time-consuming due to the amount of stuff in HB), except for the map. Should I invest my time into this or make something else?
It would be really great addition to Hosting buddy. Especially now when all tus schemes and maps are easily hosted with HB.
But let's be honest, only guys who don't host over direct IP nowadays - are newcomers that host shopper and other race schemes. All maps they find on WMDB. 90% of them don't even know what Wormkit is.
If it's a lot of work for you StepS, think about it.. Maybe there are more important stuff to deal with on WA, atm.
-
I can confirm that he's alive and willing to release his source (under certain conditions, such as finding everything needed for it to work...). Last time I contacted him was in April 2015. He has been very busy with his studies in the recent years. It's not certain but he might show up more often starting this year.
That is fantastic news and very unexpected. I had no idea he was in contact with anyone, much less willing to discuss source code. What is he studying?
-
Dont work on shit Steps. We need the disconnect problem handled.
-
Dont work on shit Steps. We need the disconnect problem handled.
Agreed, we need to figure out how to disconnect godmax entirely from wn.
-
Dont work on shit Steps. We need the disconnect problem handled.
Agreed, we need to figure out how to disconnect godmax entirely from wn.
I'll help ya!
-
Well in that case, why not break the expected update into fragments?
Nobody cares if it's full 4.0, I bet everyone would be glad to see a little update too, for example:
Make worms able to import more types of pictures for graves/flags (not just 8bit bmp)
Maybe introduce reconnection system (even tho I'm aware that requires tons of work, so leave it as a special update)
Handle the multi-key problem (when more keys are pressed certain keys simply get ignored, I thought it was my lptop, but since I've bought a new one, I can see it's not)
Integrate pausing system, may be stupid, but if someone really needs to do a 15min job, he just types /pause and anyone can /resume, put 2-3 pauses per game so it's not exploitable and that's it.
Sorry if I'm talking without understanding, if I could help I would, I'm relatively good at python and I've done some projects, so in case you need a hand, showing me how things work, maybe I could help but I doubt anything there is done in python.
-
Handle the multi-key problem (when more keys are pressed certain keys simply get ignored, I thought it was my lptop, but since I've bought a new one, I can see it's not)
Afaik, that cannot be done. It's a cheap keyboard problem, known as..ghosting!??
-
Keylock? Try ANY PS/2 keyboard, it should not have it.
-
We need to get rid of the f@#!ing disconnect problem once and for all. Plus an amateur-whore-filter!
-
Godmax, you'd be the first one to get filtered.
Handle the multi-key problem (when more keys are pressed certain keys simply get ignored, I thought it was my lptop, but since I've bought a new one, I can see it's not)
It's not W:A's fault, you just got 2 shitty keyboards.
-
We should crowdfund ransome W:A-source from Team17 - not because I don't trust the actual developers, because I WHANT TO SEE IT ;o)
And:
Handle the multi-key problem (when more keys are pressed certain keys simply get ignored, I thought it was my lptop, but since I've bought a new one, I can see it's not)
It's not W:A's fault, you just got 2 shitty keyboards.
Yes - shitty key-ghosting. I know the problem (and there is still no answer in my TUS-topic about that) ^^
Explaination: https://www.microsoft.com/appliedsciences/antighostingexplained.mspx
btw:I thought it was my lptop, but since I've bought a new one, I can see it's not
Please! Logic! If there is a problem with your old laptop - it is also possible (and the case) your new one has the same problem :P
Also there is a feature-request site for W:A 4.0
http://feedback.worms2d.info/forums/5998-worms-armageddon/suggestions/7010030-add-linux-support-in-4-0
-
You know, I thought it could be possible, but since it's a new laptop, I love it so much that I blindly dismiss all theories of it being bad in any way ;D
Thanks for the answer on this, I'll check it out when I get home :)
-
Godmax, you'd be the first one to get filtered.
I would be the last to get filtered. We need an amateurfilter badly!
-
Handle the multi-key problem (when more keys are pressed certain keys simply get ignored, I thought it was my lptop, but since I've bought a new one, I can see it's not)
I get the same input drop problem on my laptop if I hold Up + Left and try to press the Spacebar.
PS/2 typically fares better than USB in regards to ghosting (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover_%28key%29#Key_jamming_and_ghosting).
An easy test for ghosting:
Hold down both Left and Right shift. Without releasing, type the sentence 'the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog'. A keyboard with no ghosting should reproduce the sentence exactly, albeit in caps.
(My result: HE QUIK BRON FO JUPS OER HE LA DOG)
-
So what's the deal here? All I hear is talk about a 4.0, it's lika kids story that doesn't exist. Why isn't 't there an official topic where at occasionally a update is made? Keep the community updated with news. FAQ, and information. Doesn't have to be a developer, but maybe by someone with insight.
Why don't developers don't want money? If a large amount cash was gathered say hypothetically 50 000 euros, why wouldn't he/she take it to speed up the process?
There are already tons of people who that are willing to pay. I see an opportunity here that can benefit us all.
-
Why don't developers don't want money? If a large amount cash was gathered say hypothetically 50 000 euros, why wouldn't he/she take it to speed up the process?
There are already tons of people who that are willing to pay. I see an opportunity here that can benefit us all.
hypothetically, how many of the 50,000 euros can you contribute? The first 5 are on me!
-
Well, there are people that have said that they are willing to invest a few 100 euros into the pot.
-
Well, there are people that have said that they are willing to invest a few 100 euros into the pot.
Nice! So how many euros can you contribute?
-
20-30 euros.
If people can contribute from 10 euros, or more we could get a lot out of it.
The 50 000 mark was just an example though.
There are people as I said, who are willing to add substantial amount of cash.
-
20-30 euros.
If people can contribute from 10 euros, or more we could get a lot out of it.
The 50 000 mark was just an example though.
There are people as I said, who are willing to add substantial amount of cash.
I'll match whatever you contribute, I've been donating to this site for quite some time, it would be good to give back to the developers.
-
I'd donate if other people were donating too. Since my donation alone won't make a difference, but together with lots of donations, they could get lots of money.
We won't ever get them to say "give us X and we'll speed up 4.0". WA 4.0 is a spare time project and they can't commit more time than they have. But people would give more if there's a Kickstarter. The whole mentality of matching other people's donations and stuff comes into play. The Kickstarter goal could simply be something like "raise $5000 for Cybershadow and Deadcode to show appreciation". Any ideas what could be used as rewards?
-
maybe if we all put in money into a pending account. and if it reaches a goal then its approved, otherwise it gets refunded.
-
Are you all project leaders for f@#!'s sake? If a woman can give birth to a child in 9 months then 9 woman can do it in 1 month? Only 2 people are working on the update which needs a lot of time which you cant buy for them.
-
Are you all project leaders for f@#!'s sake? If a woman can give birth to a child in 9 months then 9 woman can do it in 1 month? Only 2 people are working on the update which needs a lot of time which you cant buy for them.
Settle down mate, just saying i'd donate some money if it did help to make it come faster. Some people work Saturdays to earn more money. if we donated maybe they could take a Saturday off and work on worms.
-
If Deadcode/Cybershadow/Team17 started a Kickstarted campaign to fund the WA 4.0 Update to be completed within say, a year, I would totally go for this.
-
Actually, a 2018 release date would be ideal. WA's 20th Anniversary.
I'd pay $20 for that update. Maybe more. I'm sure many others would too.
-
4.0 would be nice, but it's not necessary except in the very long term. Just getting the first regular update in three years would be awesome... :\
-
If Deadcode/Cybershadow/Team17 started a Kickstarted campaign to fund the WA 4.0 Update to be completed within say, a year, I would totally go for this.
Considering the scope of 4.0 (http://worms2d.info/4.0_Facts) (it's basically a complete rewrite), I really don't want them to feel rushed about this. Are there a specific list of features (4.0 facts (http://worms2d.info/4.0_Facts) updated 2010) you all are wanting to be released, or just the arbitrary '4.0' version number? Or rather reassurance that the game is still in active development?
You better believe I'd be more than willing to throw in some cash to see some advances in this game. But adding money to the equation might not necessarily be a good thing in this circumstance. Better a regular update (3.8.0.0?) in a year with a few tweaks than a prematurely-released 4.0. The feature list (and expectations) is just too numerous for any sort of promised date.
-
Unless Team17 are preventing DC/CS from releasing the next update due to a risk of overshadowing the next Worms game, I think it might be a good idea to hand off the code to a programmer with more time on his hands, with DC/CS just being supervisors/testers...
...then again, it's possible that the code may be a hacky mess that only they can understand. Maybe they can't even understand it themselves anymore, and that's why the latest update has turned into vaporware? :\
-
CS commented recently that it is still being worked on. There is an update planned for some time this year IIRC. Just be patient. CS and DC are geniuses when it comes to WA - they are definitely the best people for the job. I mean, just look at this replay. That is the kind of precision and quality that is going into these updates.
WA is in it for the long haul. People will still be playing it 10 or 15 years from now. Now that it's 2016, the "will not be ready this decade" (http://worms2d.info/4.0_Facts) statement actually sounds pretty good. Given that there will be incremental updates before it drops.
What features are you most excited about?
-
Thanks for the reminder, I'll manage to translate the lacking lines before this update. (Portuguese).
-
Well, I think the "Resuming game from replay file." would be like little cheating for an opponent, because he/she can watch the replay and get the view of other opponent's weapons (e.g. in Team17). How about make a disconnected replay game not playable (showing the statement "This replay cannot be viewed because one or more players have dropped") unless it's been resumed and completed? Just an idea. :d
-
What if nobody is willing to finish the game? Would a replay be locked forever?
-
What if nobody is willing to finish the game? Would a replay be locked forever?
Hmm, thats a good question too.
Well, code those replays only which is related with TUS schemes, cups etc. xd
Like if you choose to play serious league game, then that scheme should have special extension.
-
Resuming game from a replay might allow some cheats. Like resume from replay till you got best results. Best option is being able to wait or leave when someone drops. We can add a TUS rule like wait your opponent for 5 mins and if he doesn't show up you can choose to report.
-
5 minutes may be not enough in a few cases
but again, give too much time and enjoy players "disconnecting" just to annoy their opponents
>_<
-
Resuming game from a replay might allow some cheats. Like resume from replay till you got best results. Best option is being able to wait or leave when someone drops. We can add a TUS rule like wait your opponent for 5 mins and if he doesn't show up you can choose to report.
it already exists :D
If a player lags out and is not seen online 10 minutes later, then the game is taken care of by the following rules:
If it was the first game, then the game should not be reported, rather played at another time.
If it was the second game and the loser of the first game was seemingly losing the second game too, it can be reported. At any other occasion the moderators will decide about the outcome of the game, after it is posted to the forum's League Complaints section.
-
I know that I'd personally donate at least $100 if that would in any way help out with us getting a substantial W:A update. At this point I have pretty much given up all hope of it ever happening. I would love to be proven wrong though. I don't play league / clan games anymore, so the disconnection issue isn't really an issue for me. Besides, I hardly ever see people drop these days now that it's no longer 1999 and we aren't on dial-up.
For the meantime I will be eagerly looking forward to Worms W.M.D. but I would plop down some serious cash for a huge W:A update. $500 easily.
-
I could afford to donate $100 - wish I could donate more but that's just reality at the moment. Wish we could somehow organize a mass donation drive. The core Worms audience is old enough now to have credit cards and stuff.
Regarding disconnects, I've used enough sketchy wireless connections to know that it is still very much an issue. When you're near the limit of distance from the router, it can be working great for most of the game, and then all of a sudden disconnect. Not everyone lives in downtown San Francisco with Google Fiber. This game is more and more expanding to international audiences where they are less endowed with big speeds and stable dedicated connections.
Disconnect support wouldn't just help for tus/clanner games. When you've invested 40 minutes into a funner, you've got all your worms positioned where you want them, finally established domination and some good crates, it's quite a blueballing experience to suddenly drop.
-
IMO if you're playing a game that was originally made to play via dial-up and you're still experiencing issues with disconnects, the problem is who you're playing with... or your own connection. Worms doesn't take much bandwidth to play without lag or dropouts. I know the reasons why people want to have this disconnect issue fixed, but ffs, just get better internet. I don't even wanna play vs. someone who has shit internet and will constantly be lagging or dropping from games. I can see how being able to continue the matches will be great for some people, but I don't play leagues (I'm considering doing so, though...) and if someone drops in a funner I just say "oh well, I win." Mostly for being white and living in 'Merica.
(j/k)
-
If you're mooching wifi off the neighbours, or tethering data off your phone, worms is basically the only game you can play. Plus it's one of the easiest to pirate. Except it drops all the time. I've definitely been there. I guarantee not every household in India or China or whatever country W:A's next big activity explosion will be from has their own legitimate $40/month (in rupees or equivalent china dollars) internet subscription. Furthermore, internet connections are getting worse. Everyone is going mobile. There is a big wave of "cord cutting" for dedicated Internet connections in progress - why pay for both cell data and home internet access? People hardly buy laptops and desktops anymore. All the new mobile devices will be able to dual boot windows and android. Wine for android is coming too. WA will be played primarily on tablets with shitty little keyboard docks. Or at least tethered from mobile phones. Which, for the sake of the game surviving and growing, is probably a necessary evil.
I suspect W:A's current "lag" code does a lot more waiting than it needs to. If there was proper reconnection support, I doubt we'd still have those suspenseful 3 minute waits of lag. BTW there's always wkCyrusKick to get rid of annoying/lagging players.
It takes one disconnected player to ruin a game. You ever hear that statistic, that in a room of 20 people, there's a 50 percent chance two of them share a birthday? In a game of 4 or 6 players from all over the world there's a pretty good chance something bad will happen. I've disconnected from enough Worms games for a lifetime. Reconnect support is one of my most anticipated features.
-
on an offtopic note,
wkCyrusKick
Is that a brand new module, or just a misspelled wkCinusKick (http://worms.cinus.org/wkcinuskick/) (which is outdated anyway)?
-
Misspelled.. I don't use it obviously :P
-
Thought i explained it good. I meant that a phone is a more basic necessity than internet. A lot of people use their 3g phone data for everything instead of paying for both a home internet connection and cell phone data. A lot of the world doesn't own a computer but $30 tablets are becoming common in India and stuff.
-
Yeah, I don't see traditional internet service or desktops/laptops going anywhere.
I guess I'm lucky because I haven't dealt with any major lag issues in quite some time. Then again, I rarely if ever play with random people. Most of the people I play with have decent connections and devices... except for Pizzasheet of course.
-
Yeah, I don't see traditional internet service or desktops/laptops going anywhere.
I guess I'm lucky because I haven't dealt with any major lag issues in quite some time. Then again, I rarely if ever play with random people. Most of the people I play with have decent connections and devices... except for Pizzasheet of course.
Pizzasheet's modem is made of wood :D
-
I would like to take this opportunity again to get the attention of all to let you know that in essence, W:A 5.0 has been out since 2011 in the form of Project-X (http://px.worms2d.info/) and that if 4.0 were to be conceived, it would make current WormNet inaccessable and thus be the end for Project-X. This would be a major step backward in the possibilities that W:A has today.
If anything, don't donate for this major step backward, but donate to revive Project-X core development to retain current W:A versions compatibility as well as make it more safe and user friendly!
(PS: I also believe it to be a more realistic goal)
-
I agree that PX is amazing but I think it trivializes the work of DC and CS to call it WA 5.0. IMO we need to continue to support and encourage the development of WA 4.0, and somebody needs to get in touch with Entuser to get him to release the source code for PX. Then it can be added into the main official worms version, and there will not be this divide any longer.
-
I have personally never even used PX. I tried to some years ago but my computer was too much of a piece of crap to run it properly, and that was that. Now that I have a decent machine, I'd like to try it. Unfortunately all I have is the Steam version of W:A for now since my old disc is long lost. (and my new laptop doesn't even have a disc drive)
-
I have personally never even used PX. I tried to some years ago but my computer was too much of a piece of crap to run it properly, and that was that. Now that I have a decent machine, I'd like to try it. Unfortunately all I have is the Steam version of W:A for now since my old disc is long lost. (and my new laptop doesn't even have a disc drive)
There is an installer which downgrades 3.7.2.1 (Steam version) to 3.6.31 and installs PX for you:
http://px.worms2d.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1982
-
That installer works (and there's an uninstaller) but it's better to maintain 2 installations of WA. PX'd WA is not really suitable for general use as it causes desynchronization sometimes, and reduced features/compatibility/stability in general.
Download an untouched WA ISO. Or create a ISO from your Steam WA folder with a prog like MagicISO. Mount the ISO in Daemon Tools or burn to disc. Install WA to a separate folder. Patch up to 3.6.31.0 and then install the regular PX (not installer linked above). Optionally, install wkWndMode (for better Win8&10 and graphics compatibility) and wkRubberworm to your PX version.