The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon

All About TUS => Announcements => Topic started by: Deadcode on December 31, 2018, 12:10 AM

Title: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Deadcode on December 31, 2018, 12:10 AM
The long-awaited W:A 3.8.0 is almost ready for release. As a stopgap until then, we'd like to share the Changelog of this release. It hasn't been sorted into categories yet (and thus is still in the mostly-chronological order in which we wrote it), and some details are subject to change before release. With no further ado:

v3.8.0 Update

Fixes
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peak
Post by: Deadcode on December 31, 2018, 12:10 AM
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peak
Post by: Deadcode on December 31, 2018, 12:11 AM
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peak
Post by: Deadcode on December 31, 2018, 12:11 AM
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Deadcode on December 31, 2018, 12:11 AM
Changes
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Deadcode on December 31, 2018, 12:11 AM
Features
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peak
Post by: Deadcode on December 31, 2018, 12:11 AM
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peak
Post by: Sensei on December 31, 2018, 12:17 AM
<3
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peak
Post by: GreeN on December 31, 2018, 12:45 AM
no hats?
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peak
Post by: STRGRN on December 31, 2018, 12:51 AM
oh boy new scheme options
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peak
Post by: KoreanRedDragon on December 31, 2018, 12:51 AM
no hats?

Not in my WA.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peak
Post by: derp on December 31, 2018, 01:22 AM
Good stuff, love you both :D
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Aladdin on December 31, 2018, 02:55 AM
Great :)
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: chuvash on December 31, 2018, 07:46 AM
Huge great job! Thank you guys! You are the bests!
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: lacoste on December 31, 2018, 08:01 AM
Im alive!
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: The Extremist on December 31, 2018, 09:37 AM
(https://abload.de/img/jawdropcarti4fxn.png)

I was expecting a lot, but this...you guys threw in an entire China's worth of kitchen sink factories. :D

Quote
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.7.2.1: Opening a team for editing, in which an animated gravestone (numbered 1-6) was selected, and then clicking OK to save the team (even if nothing was changed), would reset the grave to Gravestone 1.

This is the one I was waiting for. I don't know why it couldn't have been a hotfix, but it's still great to finally have it.

Quote
[DC] In the team statistics viewer, "Overall Team Rank" was incorrectly calculated, and had a maximum of 85% instead of 100%.

This one's been around as long as can remember. It'll be weird to see it corrected. ^_^

Quote
[DC] The registry tweaks TimerWorkaround_*.reg (introduced in v3.6.20.1) and RegisterAssociations_*.reg (introduced in v3.6.30.0) were in Unicode format, making them incompatible with Windows 98.

Quote
[DC] Bug introduced in v3.6.28.0: Compatibility with Windows 95 was broken and has now been restored.

Quote
[DC] This version of W:A can now emulate and interoperate with W:A v1.0. It is possible for an online game to have mixture of v1.0 and v3.7.2.20+ users, and it doesn't matter who is hosting.

Still kickin' it old school!

Quote
[DC] The instant replay countdown timer was displayed in the format 00:00:00, with the last two digits indicating hundredths of a second, making the second colon misleading. The second colon has been replaced with a decimal point, yielding the format 00:00.00.

Quote
[DC] The background debris in the front end had a 80 pixel empty area on the bottom upon being initialised. This was a very minor flaw; the gap would quickly be filled as the debris moved from its initial position.

Now THAT'S some serious attention to detail!

Quote
[DC] The front end had quite a bit of latency in its response to input. It is now much faster.

Quote
[DC] The centering, alignment, and spacing of front end controls (buttons, text, edit boxes, group-boxes, etc.) have been improved in all dialog boxes and screens.

Awesome!

In general, it's really great to see so much front end menu jank being fixed. I always thought it was one of WA's clear weak points. Polish is king! :)

Quote
[DC] All in-game motion and animations are now rendered at the hardware refresh rate, rather than being locked to 50 Hz as before. The game engine still runs at 50 Hz, so "tweening" is used to accomplish this. As a result, most in-game motion that used to appear somewhat jerky will now look quite smooth. (Note, tweening of animations is still limited by the number of pre-rendered frames in Gfx.dir. The difference is that now, the available frames are used as effectively as possible.)

Hmm...will it be possible to turn this off if one thinks the game looks/feels too different?

Quote
[DC] W:A can now be used in windowed mode, with all renderers (except for 8-bit DirectDraw with hardware rendering). (Special thanks to StepS for lots of research and testing contributing to this feature.)

I'm guessing this and the new fully-loaded scheme format were big parts of why the update took so long?

On that note, nice to see glitches can be turned off via scheme editing. This could fix some problems in the competitive scene.

I wouldn't mind Girder Radius Assist being a front end option, BTW.

And as for this...

Quote
[DC] It is now possible to start an offline game with CPU teams only, and no human teams present, pitting the CPU to play against itself.

Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: lacoste on December 31, 2018, 10:39 AM
Just by looking at the whole changelog you can tell how lucky we are to have these devs, theres so much depth and attention to detail being covered that even a layman with no proper knowledge about the game would be amazed. Can you even imagine finding and adressing all these little issues? In such a small community? And for free? Most paid devs would just leave them be because why bother.

These are ones that stand out for me the most with a direct impact at how WA will play now and what will be possible:

- this is actually huge, especialy for Intermediate and schemes where rope-knocking is the key to win, so expect rope-knocking to work properly now, sliding these 1 pixel slopes will work everytime without bouncing off the pixels
- I've been missing this feature on many occassions, not to mention how easy it will be now to make some great maps that would benefit from it (ie. battlerace)
- i fucking love this one, movie making will benefit the most from it, but not only
- this is so useful
- thats obviously one of the most important features, needed for so many years and finally here, so many possibilities and QOL improvements, I could actually write a whole page about this one... seriously!
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Godmax on December 31, 2018, 11:02 AM
Ok so....it fixes non existing bugs (I have never encountered?!). How about a way to continue games after a disconnect how about that?
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Sensei on December 31, 2018, 12:03 PM
As coste said - amount of details you went through.. Unbelievable. On lots of those bug fixes I was wondering how it's possible to even discover that stuff. Even if someone else pointed it to you, it's beyond me how you found time and will to fix those "1 in 100000 situations" bug appearing. Thank you!

Quote
[DC] It is now possible to save a snapshot of the current map in-game. The map is saved in its current destroyed/augmented state, with the water level set to its precise current level. There are two ways to do this: One is to press Alt+Pause, and the other is to enter /map in the chat panel (synonyms of this command are /mapshot, /snapmap, /savemap, and /getmap).

Great addition. BnG players will appreciate it if some connection drop happens mid game. Closest we got to fully restarting a game (with damaged map and worms hp/position moment before drop), at least yet!

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[DC] The /open command now optionally allows a host to change the game name and password when reopening the game, by popping up a dialog box allowing them to be changed.

I know goom had a sneak peak bit before us others.  ::) He was using this feature months ago and I was thrilled to see it in game. Reopening and rehosting becomes boring when you do it 5+ times per hour. This is great time saver and can't love it more.

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[DC] The /url command can now be used by a host who is using WormNAT2. This is accomplished by exporting a function from WA.exe (see Footnote 5).

Hmm. What exactly "/url" command does and when/why it should be applied? I couldn't find footnote that explains it.


Quote
[DC] It is now possible for the host in an online game to add CPU teams. The game will only be allowed to start if all clients present support this feature.

Haha! You're telling me we're now able to use AI worms if 1 man short for 2v2/3v3?
This is fun addition but does it make any sense? Could AI be able to handle shopper, aerial, elite...?
Anyway, this is gonna be good for laughs, if nothing else.

Quote
[DC] It is now possible to start an offline game with CPU teams only, and no human teams present, pitting the CPU to play against itself.

Will be nice to use this while on a break during some twitch streaming. Thx.


Quote
[DC,CS] W:A now has a new scheme format,
Physics
Wind can be adjusted, either as the maximum strength randomised wind shall have, or as a constant strength the wind shall have on every turn.

Finally! For long time I've been saying that ttrr/bigrr are closest schemes to reach perfection. Only thing that was in their way - wind luck. Imagine one player having a turn with no wind, and other have full red. If they are turned on right side and get stuck on right wall with parachute turned on -> guy with no wind will just deploy rope and continue with turn, while guy with full red wind would need to spam chute in air to reach bottom of a pit before continuing turn. We're talking about 5-6 seconds difference in big rr, which is game breaking!

:-\ RR schemes need to get updated with 0 wind throughout whole game. It's mandatory!  :-\
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Kradie on December 31, 2018, 12:41 PM
I am flabbergasted of how much amount of work and energy that's put into this. At least that's what I get from this. it's beyond me. You have my gratitude! Thank you so much for your hard work CyberShadow & DeadCode! :)

This will surely put smiles on many faces and continue to bring life to this legendary epic game! I am so proud of everyone :)
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: derp on December 31, 2018, 01:39 PM
AI...shopper, aerial

Tried both of these against the AI a couple years ago during a period of spotty internet - no, no it can't :P

in shopper (with bazooka) it just fires bazooka from the ground, refusing to do anything else
in aerial it never moves as it takes about 5 seconds to think what it should do
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: lolicon-guy on December 31, 2018, 03:28 PM
I just wanted to see two fixes... Move the "Display Rankings" button a few pixels upwards so it doesn't clash with the chat's inbox, and have some way to enable custom maps in a ranked channel. Is it too difficult?
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: StepS on December 31, 2018, 04:35 PM
Quote
[DC] It is now possible for the host in an online game to add CPU teams. The game will only be allowed to start if all clients present support this feature.

Haha! You're telling me we're now able to use AI worms if 1 man short for 2v2/3v3?
This is fun addition but does it make any sense? Could AI be able to handle shopper, aerial, elite...?
Anyway, this is gonna be good for laughs, if nothing else.

This is the so-called "CPU teams in online games" feature that has been requested by casual players for many years. This is among the top requests by casual players (along with controller support), most of whom play teamed games with friends against bots. Team17 once promised to add this feature in Worms WMD, and the thread (https://steamcommunity.com/app/327030/discussions/0/385428943463425708/) on steam discussions had the most posts in the WMD boards. However, after a while of silence, Team17 ultimately cancelled the feature, citing "unresolvable bugs". No Worms game previously had it.
This will please many outside players.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ytrojan on December 31, 2018, 07:09 PM
Finally, we won't have to waste our time tracking down and downloading RubberWorm.


However, Project X is still needed, as it hasn't been implemented in 3.7, let alone 3.8, probably because the creator abandoned it.


Now, I think I'll keep 3.7.2.1 ONLY for replay preservation, but keep 3.6.31, as the former is obsolete, while the latter is still necessary for Project X,  while Rubberworm is basically gonna die, since it's basically been implemented in Vanilla Worms Armageddon.


However, I fear what will happen to those old Rubberworm schemes and games. Will they be converted to the new scheme format? Or will they be lost to history because of an obsolete format?


EDIT: Rubberworm will be edited, so that means 3.7.2.1 is obsolete, and not only that, but I can FINALLY uninstall it from my computer, but I still have to keep 3.6.31.0, as Project X hasn't even been updated for any later version, and 3.8 hasn't implemented its tools, which is why I've kept an older version in the first place
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: solido on December 31, 2018, 07:45 PM
Amazing release, thank you for all the dedication and hard work, I haven't played in years, but I still have a soft spot for WA.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: KinslayeR on December 31, 2018, 08:07 PM
looks like it is time to install WA again...     I will not even try to read whole this things whos got repaired,   did not even know there was so many bugs in this game :D I just hope roping will be nice and will solve gorilla map bug xdd  and I hope it is not new year joke or some thing like this and tomorrow u tell us we were all drunk and delete this topic ,  anyway great job guys who made it! and fuck T17 of course...
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Thewolensheep on December 31, 2018, 08:14 PM
Can't wait for the update! Will be working hard on finishing my Worms Reloaded speechbanks today.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: StepS on December 31, 2018, 08:33 PM
However, I fear what will happen to those old Rubberworm schemes and games. Will they be converted to the new scheme format?

Yes.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Deadcode on December 31, 2018, 09:12 PM
Now, I think I'll keep 3.7.2.1 ONLY for replay preservation, but keep 3.6.31, as the former is obsolete, while the latter is still necessary for Project X,  while Rubberworm is basically gonna die, since it's basically been implemented in Vanilla Worms Armageddon.

3.8 is actually better at playing replays recorded by 3.7.2.1 (and all previous versions) than 3.7.2.1 is. There are some cases in which 3.7.2.1 (and other previous versions) would desync playing a valid replay, that 3.8 will play correctly. And also 3.8 plays back replays with tweening, so they'll look better than they did when they were originally played.

Of course, keep 3.7.2.1 if you want, but it's unlikely to be needed except maybe for other game-logic-changing modules besides RubberWorm.

However, I fear what will happen to those old Rubberworm schemes and games. Will they be converted to the new scheme format? Or will they be lost to history because of an obsolete format?

I considered implementing automatic conversion of RubberWorm schemes into the new format, but there were some complexities involved and I decided to leave it out of 3.8 rather than delay 3.8 further by taking the time to implement this properly. There's a good chance I'll add the feature in a later version (as well as live play interoperability with 3.6.x/3.7.x + RW), but by then perhaps most schemes will have been manually converted anyway.

(Actually, there is a very easy way of implementing built-in conversion. It is rather distasteful in a programming sense, but I suppose I should probably do it, because of the big impact on convenience it would have for all players of RubberWorm schemes, at least in the initial period of time after 3.8's release.)
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ytrojan on December 31, 2018, 10:34 PM
Now, I think I'll keep 3.7.2.1 ONLY for replay preservation, but keep 3.6.31, as the former is obsolete, while the latter is still necessary for Project X,  while Rubberworm is basically gonna die, since it's basically been implemented in Vanilla Worms Armageddon.

3.8 is actually better at playing replays recorded by 3.7.2.1 (and all previous versions) than 3.7.2.1 is. There are some cases in which 3.7.2.1 (and other previous versions) would desync playing a valid replay, that 3.8 will play correctly. And also 3.8 plays back replays with tweening, so they'll look better than they did when they were originally played.

Of course, keep 3.7.2.1 if you want, but it's unlikely to be needed except maybe for other game-logic-changing modules besides RubberWorm.
Well, Time to uninstall it. Besides, 3.6.31.0 is the only previous version I use anyways, because Project X demands it, and I would've uninstalled THAT if it was implemented in Worms Armageddon or a WormKit module for a newer version anyways, but I still fear for the arrows feature of RubberWorm.
However, I fear what will happen to those old Rubberworm schemes and games. Will they be converted to the new scheme format? Or will they be lost to history because of an obsolete format?

I considered implementing automatic conversion of RubberWorm schemes into the new format, but there were some complexities involved and I decided to leave it out of 3.8 rather than delay 3.8 further by taking the time to implement this properly. There's a good chance I'll add the feature in a later version (as well as live play interoperability with 3.6.x/3.7.x + RW), but by then perhaps most schemes will have been manually converted anyway.

(Actually, there is a very easy way of implementing built-in conversion. It is rather distasteful in a programming sense, but I suppose I should probably do it, because of the big impact on convenience it would have for all players of RubberWorm schemes, at least in the initial period of time after 3.8's release.)
I feel that you should do it in a minor release after this one, which shouldn't take 6 years (We shouldn't wait until 2025 for a new Worms Armageddon release). That way, people will actually download the new version.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Asbest on December 31, 2018, 10:44 PM
I didn't read whole, but will be real time worms? like real time ttrr etc. If no, its very sad.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ytrojan on December 31, 2018, 10:45 PM
I didn't read whole, but will be real time worms? like real time ttrr etc. If no, its very sad.
Not YET, that's 4.0


If you want Real Time Worms, OpenLiero is your answer.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheKomodo on January 01, 2019, 12:24 AM
Wow that makes my longest post ever look like nothing  ;D

But seriously, these are the new things i'm most excited about:

Quote
It is now possible to start an offline game with CPU teams only, and no human teams present, pitting the CPU to play against itself.

Quote
It is now possible for the host in an online game to add CPU teams. The game will only be allowed to start if all clients present support this feature.

Quote
Auto-place worms by ally (checkbox) – When worm placement is automatic, group worms by team colour. May make automatic placement feasible even in Fort-style maps. Default off.

I'm really interested to know more about auto-placement, we've been dying to have this in Darts for as long as we can remember, there are many people who don't like the scheme specifically because they must wait a while placing worms at the start, this changes everything there! Couldn't be happier!

Great work on the bug fixes, I didn't realize the game had so many issues... Will be nice to try some of the other things too :)

I hope i'm still alive for 4.0, not even joking!
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Gabriel on January 01, 2019, 12:26 AM
(Endless list of bugfixes and features)
You have my gratitude! Thank you so much for your hard work CyberShadow & DeadCode! :)

This will surely put smiles on many faces and continue to bring life to this legendary epic game! I am so proud of everyone :)
Ok so....it fixes non existing bugs (I have never encountered?!). How about a way to continue games after a disconnect how about that?

Didn't you read we're going to be able to save maps mid-game? It isn't a real way to "continue" a game, but it certainly will be helpful. Also, it's about time you start behaving like a real person, your character isn't even remotely fun anymore.

It's nice to see this update has become a reality in the near future. Hope it brings this game some of its life back.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ytrojan on January 01, 2019, 07:51 PM
Wow that makes my longest post ever look like nothing  ;D

But seriously, these are the new things i'm most excited about:

Quote
It is now possible to start an offline game with CPU teams only, and no human teams present, pitting the CPU to play against itself.

Quote
It is now possible for the host in an online game to add CPU teams. The game will only be allowed to start if all clients present support this feature.

Quote
Auto-place worms by ally (checkbox) – When worm placement is automatic, group worms by team colour. May make automatic placement feasible even in Fort-style maps. Default off.

I'm really interested to know more about auto-placement, we've been dying to have this in Darts for as long as we can remember, there are many people who don't like the scheme specifically because they must wait a while placing worms at the start, this changes everything there! Couldn't be happier!

Great work on the bug fixes, I didn't realize the game had so many issues... Will be nice to try some of the other things too :)

I hope i'm still alive for 4.0, not even joking!
It probably places them in a similar way to Forts, but don't worry: They'll probably do a similar thing that applies to Darts before 4.0 starts development
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: AduN on January 01, 2019, 11:32 PM
thanks.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Rogi on January 02, 2019, 08:28 AM
Thanks! Great Job!
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: StepS on January 02, 2019, 10:19 AM
As a reminder for anyone who wants to have CPU-only games (with no human teams present), you can already do so by using this (https://www.tus-wa.com/files/file-1592/) WormKit module. It allows the "start game" button to be pressed.
You will have to delete the module when 3.8.0 is released.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: VIRUS` on January 02, 2019, 01:21 PM
Good Job :)
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: KinslayeR on January 02, 2019, 03:46 PM
As a reminder for anyone who wants to have CPU-only games (with no human teams present), you can already do so by using this (https://www.tus-wa.com/files/file-1592/) WormKit module. It allows the "start game" button to be pressed.
You will have to delete the module when 3.8.0 is released.


YOUPRMISED ME TO BE AVAILABLE HOST BY http://snoop.wormnet.net/snooper/. FOR NOW I AM NOT EVEN AVAILABLE WRITE THERE ! xdddddd
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on January 03, 2019, 01:34 AM
Personally I'm super excited and grateful for this new update. THANK YOU for persevering and (soon) releasing this monumental effort.

Specifically very excited about the new scheme format. AFAIK this has been one of the main ambitions and obstacles for WA 4.0. Now that it's implemented, many other possibilities emerge. Now that Rubberworm is integrated the playerbase will be less divided. The new scheme format is a prerequisite for implementing things like larger weapon rosters and native PX-style tweaking, so we should be very glad to have it. In previous posts DC and CS have indicated that after 3.8 they intend to have more frequent updates. Even if that doesn't end up happening as much as planned, the job of creating tweaks/features is now easier for other Wormkit module makers. Furthermore I don't think there are that many modules that need to be rereleased. StepS has said that it's trivial to make the necessary changes, and has even offered his help doing so.

I must admit on first readthrough I felt some of the bugfixes were excessive (such as the bubble size). But for all we know some of those bugfixes may have only taken a few minutes each to fix. I am glad that someone has the knowledge to find these bugs and cares enough to go to the effort of fixing them. Deadcode is a volunteer so we can't rightly criticize how he chooses to spend his time. Maybe he'd lose his ambition to continue if he knowingly left imperfections that he knew he could easily fix. The best thing about WA is how polished and perfect it is, and that is something Team17 still fails to comprehend. There will never be a worms game that comes anywhere near WA in quality. This new update cements that fact indisputably.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: The Extremist on January 03, 2019, 04:45 AM
The best thing about WA is how polished and perfect it is, and that is something Team17 still fails to comprehend. There will never be a worms game that comes anywhere near WA in quality. This new update cements that fact indisputably.

I'll say it again - polish is king.

In any kind of game, but especially one with heavy customization, online lobbies and peer-to-peer netcode, I can't stand jank - and I don't think Deadcode can either.

Anyhow, while lots of new features could be added at this point, it's best the current slate of bugs be cleared before more are undoubtedly added by large new chunks of code. The new scheme format alone is probably going to need another update or two to tidy things up.

Nobody's really expecting anything massive before 4.0 anyways. Interim updates that make the existing experience smoother do well enough to keep the playerbase invested, and they help clear a path for 4.0 too (enabling windowed play is certainly a big step).
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Deadcode on January 03, 2019, 03:50 PM
Hello,

First, I think it's great that you're making things for W:A.
But I'm afraid that many members of the community are somewhat disappointed by the changeset featured in the 3.8 update. Even though fixing bugs is important from developer's standpoint, it is not necessarily the best course of action to maintain a healthy community. From my understanding, the sole thing that people anticipated from this update was a set of new and meaningful gameplay features.

From the quick glance of the changeset, most of the changes were directed towards fixing obvious bugs with windows 10 compatibility (yay!) and resolving glitches that were low level and so obscure, that we didn't know they even existed (yay... maybe?). Don't get me wrong, some technical features (ASLR) and fixes were truly necessary, but I bet that most players can live through a sea bubble skipping an animation frame.

The thing that I cannot comprehend at the moment, is why do have to stick with absolutely perfect backwards compatibility across multiple WA versions. Most folks on WormNet stick with 3.7.2.1 (because it's newest* and greatest at the moment), 3.6.31.0 (because of ProjectX) or 3.7.2.2 (because they don't know any better and just use what steam installed by default). Yet, there has been substantial amount of work put into bringing back WA 1.0 to play nicely with 3.8. Too bad, that WA 1.0 is unobtainable at the moment, so the only somewhat viable way of playing 1.0 in the year 2019, was if someone's grandma found an ancient CD and wanted to relive the good ol' days of The Berlin Wall falling down. More of the time could be spent on more meaningful changes if we just decided to drop the compatibility support and print a nice prompt to update the game when somebody joined the party with their 1920 Ford model T. Btw, even if the core game can synchronize with 1.0, the Napoleonic Wars veteran will still be kicked out/desynchronized because he lacks the rubberworm or other modules.

The power of WA is it's great community, that has already proven numerous times that it *can* and *will* bring many new exciting features through the Wormkit. Even better, we are backed by two truly skilled developers with access to the game's source code, so some technical and otherwise unfeasible changes can be done at the source code level. But I'm afraid this update missed the chance to revitalize the game. Of course, nobody expected a full ProjectX reimplementation, but at least a cornerstone of a true Wormkit system could be laid. We all know, that in its current state wormkit is a fancy name for LoadLibraryA wrapper and module developers are left to figure out everything by themselves. As result, every wormkit module implements important stuff in a chaotic way that often does not play out nice with other modules or game features. Of course, now* rubberworm is a part of the core game, so it is bound to behave nicely, but all other modules need to be redone or patched anyway with the same nonexistent API.

The limitation of WA's feature development is the lack of public information (developers need to reverse engineer everything by themselves), lack of true integration between modules and the game, and the way the game's memory structures are laid out and referenced. Most of the game code and structures are easy to find and understand in a single evening's time with a 6 pack of beer. So for example, replacing bazooka's physics and behavior is relatively easy, but extending the weapon roster with that modified bazooka is a hell of a task. Why? Because there is no room. Hacking the game to think that the weapon roster contains 128 entries is easy, but when the game would check the ammunition of red team's weapon #128, it would actually check the blue team's weapon #48 or so. In order to truly add a new weapon to the game, the developer has to copy the entire weapon entry array and ammunition state array to a new area in memory, insert some buffer space between the array entries and force the game to use the new memory area with regards to extended intervals between entries - find and patch hundreds of references to the old memory address and inlined constants. Btw, even if the modder has achieved such task, there are still dozens of arrays and subroutines that need to be altered (loading custom sprites, img's, sounds and localization strings, extending the arrays containing the pointers to loaded data, modifying the weapon box to show more columns, etc.). Each task involves the same or greater amount of work and further changes to other parts of the game. On the other hand, the owner of the source code to do the same task only has to change some constants and recompile the game.

Extending the game with bigger weapon roster (alongside more team, player, sprite and other miscellaneous arrays) will break backwards compatibility (even though some protocol messages actually offer more space than needed), but if we just prompt the outdated player to upgrade the game, we will be just fine.

In regards to lack of documentation and integration between the game and modules, maintainers could develop a basic ProjectX-like environment (let's call it a True Wormkit), allowing for package management across players, dynamic hooking and unhooking api, game protocol access, easy access to game's memory structures, and reading/writing to new scheme format (I hope the new scheme format is a JSON or XML file, so modders can easily extend it to their own needs). And I strongly believe, that releasing (partial) header files of important structures and functions won't cause harm to anyone. With extended buffers and a proper modding API true miracles could be done.

If the community has to make a leap to 3.8 and redevelop most of the modules, please at least make it worthwhile.

You're entitled to your opinion. For the record, I did not delete your post or account. It may have been deleted simply because of your username, or some other reason unrelated to your post's content.

I do W:A development as a labor of love. j0e hit the nail on the head saying "Maybe he'd lose his ambition to continue if he knowingly left imperfections that he knew he could easily fix." I'm in this for the long haul; I want to make W:A as good as it can be. Taking the "quick and dirty" route of implementing features that break compatibility would sour me on the whole thing. I also predict it would result in elevated excitement in the game for a while, but would shorten W:A's life in the long term, making gameplay more ephemeral and fleeting with no permanent reliable record in the form of forward-compatible replay files. Yes, I realize that in the short term this attitude may result in some frustration. But please bear with me on this! The customizability features in 3.8.0 are just the tip of the iceberg, and there is more to come in later releases. I just want to take my time and do it right.

All of the extensions of which you speak can be done while preserving backwards compatibility, it just takes more time.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: generic goose on January 03, 2019, 04:24 PM
I love you guys. This update will be so great.
Only features I could ask for are some system for downloading soundbanks (steam workshop integration maybe?), a way to make custom weapons, less limitations on the map image format (they aren't very restrictive, but having none would be best, although it's probably difficult) and last, but not least, game saving.
Will any of those appear in the future?
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheMadCharles on January 03, 2019, 04:39 PM
*wall of text*
not yet, 4.0 will be a thing eventually
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: raffie on January 03, 2019, 05:32 PM
Have to be honest I'm surprised by what I'm reading, I had pretty much given up hope for further WA development. Good to see I was wrong!
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ytrojan on January 03, 2019, 10:24 PM
From the quick glance of the changeset, most of the changes were directed towards fixing obvious bugs with windows 10 compatibility (yay!) and resolving glitches that were low level and so obscure, that we didn't know they even existed (yay... maybe?). Don't get me wrong, some technical features (ASLR) and fixes were truly necessary, but I bet that most players can live through a sea bubble skipping an animation frame.

I use Windows 8.1, in case you're wondering, so yeah.
[/size]
The thing that I cannot comprehend at the moment, is why do have to stick with absolutely perfect backwards compatibility across multiple WA versions. Most folks on WormNet stick with 3.7.2.1 (because it's newest* and greatest at the moment), 3.6.31.0 (because of ProjectX) or 3.7.2.2 (because they don't know any better and just use what steam installed by default). Yet, there has been substantial amount of work put into bringing back WA 1.0 to play nicely with 3.8. Too bad, that WA 1.0 is unobtainable at the moment, so the only somewhat viable way of playing 1.0 in the year 2019, was if someone's grandma found an ancient CD and wanted to relive the good ol' days of The Berlin Wall falling down. More of the time could be spent on more meaningful changes if we just decided to drop the compatibility support and print a nice prompt to update the game when somebody joined the party with their 1920 Ford model T. Btw, even if the core game can synchronize with 1.0, the Napoleonic Wars veteran will still be kicked out/desynchronized because he lacks the rubberworm or other modules.

I think that there's a reason for this: reenactment, or having more chaos in schemes. Besides, the changes can actually be made while preserving backwards compatibility if Deadcode & Cybershadow spend a few more seconds in the coding room. Do you REALLY want rushed updates that suck AND break compatibility with players that want to use them?! Besides, Worms Armageddon mode compatibility may be useful for people that aren't Ancient Egyptians using stone tablets to record games. For example, we can see more chaotic matches with emulation (which can be useful for expiremental experimental matches).
The power of WA is it's great community, that has already proven numerous times that it *can* and *will* bring many new exciting features through the Wormkit. Even better, we are backed by two truly skilled developers with access to the game's source code, so some technical and otherwise unfeasible changes can be done at the source code level. But I'm afraid this update missed the chance to revitalize the game. Of course, nobody expected a full ProjectX reimplementation, but at least a cornerstone of a true Wormkit system could be laid. We all know, that in its current state wormkit is a fancy name for LoadLibraryA wrapper and module developers are left to figure out everything by themselves. As result, every wormkit module implements important stuff in a chaotic way that often does not play out nice with other modules or game features. Of course, now* rubberworm is a part of the core game, so it is bound to behave nicely, but all other modules need to be redone or patched anyway with the same nonexistent API.

It exists, it's built-in. Next thing you know, you will complain about a non-existent CAW that exists as a template in WWE games.
Extending the game with bigger weapon roster (alongside more team, player, sprite and other miscellaneous arrays) will break backwards compatibility (even though some protocol messages actually offer more space than needed), but if we just prompt the outdated player to upgrade the game, we will be just fine.

You can always hack the game to automatically remove the additional weapons, or make a WormKit module for older versions to handle the new weapons.
If the community has to make a leap to 3.8 and redevelop most of the modules, please at least make it worthwhile.
They have done this every update (no matter how minor) for the past decade, and they'll most likely do it again.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: The Extremist on January 03, 2019, 11:14 PM
I love you guys. This update will be so great.
Only features I could ask for are some system for downloading soundbanks (steam workshop integration maybe?), a way to make custom weapons, less limitations on the map image format (they aren't very restrictive, but having none would be best, although it's probably difficult) and last, but not least, game saving.
Will any of those appear in the future?

That all sounds like the kind of stuff planned for 4.0 (a very major update that's a long way off).
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on January 04, 2019, 12:11 AM
I love you guys. This update will be so great.
Only features I could ask for are some system for downloading soundbanks (steam workshop integration maybe?), a way to make custom weapons, less limitations on the map image format (they aren't very restrictive, but having none would be best, although it's probably difficult) and last, but not least, game saving.
Will any of those appear in the future?

That all sounds like the kind of stuff planned for 4.0 (a very major update that's a long way off).
Not necessarily. Maybe the new scheme format could be extended to allow "attachments" ie. custom weapon sprites, libraries, sounds and such. If those could sync automatically from host to players, we'd have the foundation of a modern-day ProjectX. The same sync function could work for custom soundbanks. I don't know that there is any more "ultimate" perfect solution planned for those functions in 4.0 anyway. With the new scheme format from 3.8 we are in really good shape already. A 3rd party coder could make this in a Wormkit module.

My guess is that true game saving (or continuing from replays) is probably, like you say, a long way off. But the new map screenshot function helps greatly. What would help a lot in the interim would be to make the game more aggressively attempt to reconnect after a disconnect. That probably would do nothing to resolve disconnects due to desynchronizations, but if it could fix drops from Hostingbuddy crashes it would be a very substantial improvement.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: phobos on January 04, 2019, 12:35 PM
Thanks! I can't wait for 3.8.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheMadCharles on January 05, 2019, 05:50 PM
you may as well ask for a display name change or sth
"SeeYouSeaKay" or sth idk
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: WTF-8 on January 05, 2019, 08:14 PM
The primary concern against including RubberWorm into the base game is that many of its options would be "WTF hack" to newcomers. Like, someone joins what appears to be an usual Intermediate game, and suddenly gravity is wrong, worms bounce, shots don't end the turn and all that. Would there be some sort of notification or something if any game-changing RubberWorm options are enabled, or is it now mandatory to check all RubberWorm options in every game?
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Spid3yo on January 05, 2019, 08:35 PM
Just bring the flaming health bars back that's all I want
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: StepS on January 05, 2019, 09:00 PM
The primary concern against including RubberWorm into the base game is that many of its options would be "WTF hack" to newcomers. Like, someone joins what appears to be an usual Intermediate game, and suddenly gravity is wrong, worms bounce, shots don't end the turn and all that. Would there be some sort of notification or something if any game-changing RubberWorm options are enabled, or is it now mandatory to check all RubberWorm options in every game?

There will be indication when there's any change from standard values.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ytrojan on January 05, 2019, 11:05 PM
Just bring the flaming health bars back that's all I want
[sarcasm]Yes. In fact, let's make any animated GIF be able to be used in Health bars, I feel it could work.[/sarcasm]

Seriously, though. While the flaming health bars are a good idea, the creation of the update has already been finished. However, I can see it happening in 3.9 or 4.0, which will likely be 5 years away
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Spid3yo on January 06, 2019, 07:36 PM
Just bring the flaming health bars back that's all I want
[sarcasm]Yes. In fact, let's make any animated GIF be able to be used in Health bars, I feel it could work.[/sarcasm]

Seriously, though. While the flaming health bars are a good idea, the creation of the update has already been finished. However, I can see it happening in 3.9 or 4.0, which will likely be 5 years away

5 more years for something they removed from the game 15 years ago  :'(
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheWalrus on January 06, 2019, 07:49 PM
Just bring the flaming health bars back that's all I want
[sarcasm]Yes. In fact, let's make any animated GIF be able to be used in Health bars, I feel it could work.[/sarcasm]

Seriously, though. While the flaming health bars are a good idea, the creation of the update has already been finished. However, I can see it happening in 3.9 or 4.0, which will likely be 5 years away

5 more years for something they removed from the game 15 years ago  :'(
Just to let you know, I didn't smite you for your post, I smited because of Aaron Rodgers avatar.  FTP!
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: ohms on January 08, 2019, 10:45 AM

Awesome! Thank you.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Orange_Ball on January 08, 2019, 02:30 PM
I'm so hyped for this update. ^^
Any plans on developing a feature that can create custom weapons like in Project X?
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Chicken23 on January 09, 2019, 11:47 PM
I think it great that developments and everything are still being made on wa.

As a biased 'classic' old schooler i don't think (would love to be wrong) the 3.8 patch will return the glory league days of wa. In fact it may just create more scheme variations and modifications making the wa community even more divided in terms of what schemes are popular and enjoyed in a competitive league environment.

WA isn't dead, but classic style is?

What are others thoughts on the release of 3.8 in relation to classic and league style?

Please note that this post isn't meant to demotivate DC and CS on their work and really appreciate their efforts to fix a game we all love. I just love classic and competitive games and want to try to get the whole community more into that instead of so many single scheme variations. Perhaps the reason the glory days worked so well was because the leagues were simply based off bng, default and rope and grew from there..
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: StepS on January 10, 2019, 12:48 AM
What are others thoughts on the release of 3.8 in relation to classic and league style?
New scheme options should hopefully lead to upgraded variants of classic schemes. People have already expressed their will to turn off wind in TTRR. With native reaiming support, the BnG scheme can be improved to remove the repetitive reaim procedure at turn start. In Forts game mode, automatic placement has become possible (as well as the ability to have constant/variable wind in the opposing fort direction). Glitches such as skip-walking in battle races can be disabled to enforce fair play. Eventually more scheme rules will make their way into game engine options, opening up the classic "rule-specific" schemes to more newcomers instead of the historical situation. These are just a few quick examples and I'm sure people will come up with more.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheWalrus on January 10, 2019, 01:24 AM
What are others thoughts on the release of 3.8 in relation to classic and league style?
New scheme options should hopefully lead to upgraded variants of classic schemes. People have already expressed their will to turn off wind in TTRR. With native reaiming support, the BnG scheme can be improved to remove the repetitive reaim procedure at turn start. In Forts game mode, automatic placement has become possible (as well as the ability to have constant/variable wind in the opposing fort direction). Glitches such as skip-walking in battle races can be disabled to enforce fair play. Eventually more scheme rules will make their way into game engine options, opening up the classic "rule-specific" schemes to more newcomers instead of the historical situation. These are just a few quick examples and I'm sure people will come up with more.
Didn't know skip walk will be disabled now, great fix. 

A dream option for me is mirrored wind, would finally make BnG the perfect artillery scheme.  Mirrored wind i.e. (getting the same wind opponent did the previous turn, only the inverse) if your opponent gets 2 red bar wind, you get 2 blue bar wind the next turn, and so on).  The new wind options are great, should eliminate annoyances in Big RR as well, youll never get pinned against a wall and forced to chute down again with wind at 0.  Also chute race and bungee race benefit from 0 wind.  Loving this new update, great work.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: lacoste on January 10, 2019, 02:49 PM
As a biased 'classic' old schooler i don't think (would love to be wrong) the 3.8 patch will return the glory league days of wa.

I'm affraid the only way to bring some life into classic WA would be official, properly organised ingame ranking system, tournaments and all that (among other things) happening within ingame menus, so basically the 4.0 rework we dream of, with good publicity on top of that. It's not like old farts will start comming back chasing past when they only grow older, so this game needs new generations if it wants to stay active that way for some more time.

A dream option for me is mirrored wind, would finally make BnG the perfect artillery scheme. 

I disagree. That's clean reproducibility. If anything, a system that would generate 10 winds and then mirror them shuffled between players without that mirrored repetition of the same shot after shot would make more sense when it comes to fairness and not taking away that element of suprise.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Kradie on January 10, 2019, 05:21 PM
As a biased 'classic' old schooler i don't think (would love to be wrong) the 3.8 patch will return the glory league days of wa.

I'm affraid the only way to bring some life into classic WA would be official, properly organised ingame ranking system, tournaments and all that (among other things) happening within ingame menus, so basically the 4.0 rework we dream of, with good publicity on top of that. It's not like old farts will start comming back chasing past when they only grow older, so this game needs new generations if it wants to stay active that way for some more time.

A dream option for me is mirrored wind, would finally make BnG the perfect artillery scheme. 

I disagree. That's clean reproducibility. If anything, a system that would generate 10 winds and then mirror them shuffled between players without that mirrored repetition of the same shot after shot would make more sense when it comes to fairness and not taking away that element of suprise.

This is what I've been saying before. Veteran players often relies on their past & nostalgia to find a comforting foothold in today's WA. Despite being an old school myself of the early-mid 2000, I am able to adapt in the modern WA society. I am sure that this new update will generate a temporal influx of new, existing and old players. Perhaps a lot of them will find a reason to stay. Unfortunately if you want to be competitive, you need to rely on external services like The Ultimate Site, this can be off putting for some, and this alone divides the player base. We are already witnessing it, a small inactive league with the regular cynics with the inability to change over time and only will recognize those with high ranks, while the rest in WA are committed to funners. Of course this my own hypothesis and experience. A built in league system in WA could alleviate the gap between players.

When it comes to the mirrored wind, it is a novel idea, nice option to have, but I think in the end for me, I also like the element of surprise.
I'm guessing a lot of the current schemes could use a little tweaking and updating. I think the entirety of WA community should be involved with these sort of things. It would be very egotistical for a group of people to decide how popular main schemes should be shaped & played. Then again, some could argue ''Well Kradie, if you let n00bs and non-competitive players vote and give their ideas, it could break the existing schemes completely! Imagine Donkeys in Intermediate!'' Sure, if such argument are to be made, I would say; Yeah sure I get it, and that is why we need a proper voting template for people to follow. Such template would be shaped on popular opinions and ideas suggested by anyone.
Then again, maybe none of this is necessary, and perhaps all existing schemes are fine as they are. Though, I guess most of us agrees that TTRR needs zero wind...
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheWalrus on January 10, 2019, 08:17 PM
As a biased 'classic' old schooler i don't think (would love to be wrong) the 3.8 patch will return the glory league days of wa.

I'm affraid the only way to bring some life into classic WA would be official, properly organised ingame ranking system, tournaments and all that (among other things) happening within ingame menus, so basically the 4.0 rework we dream of, with good publicity on top of that. It's not like old farts will start comming back chasing past when they only grow older, so this game needs new generations if it wants to stay active that way for some more time.

A dream option for me is mirrored wind, would finally make BnG the perfect artillery scheme. 

I disagree. That's clean reproducibility. If anything, a system that would generate 10 winds and then mirror them shuffled between players without that mirrored repetition of the same shot after shot would make more sense when it comes to fairness and not taking away that element of suprise.
Good idea coste, didn’t even think of that, I do like surprise winds.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: wza on January 12, 2019, 12:36 PM
I was wondering about the force wine virtual desktop being removed. I've had a pain trying to get it to work with wine. I finally have it working but I have to run it in xquartz on x11. If I uncheck the force virtual desktop I get black screen with sound but can't do anything. If I run natively in wine without x11 or xquartz I would see a white or red flash before it launched,  it would go through the intro, and then the start menu would be unclickable, or it would be black.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: StepS on January 12, 2019, 03:16 PM
I was wondering about the force wine virtual desktop being removed. I've had a pain trying to get it to work with wine. I finally have it working but I have to run it in xquartz on x11. If I uncheck the force virtual desktop I get black screen with sound but can't do anything. If I run natively in wine without x11 or xquartz I would see a white or red flash before it launched,  it would go through the intro, and then the start menu would be unclickable, or it would be black.
You don't need any wine-specific fixes anymore. 3.8.0 will run natively without any virtual desktop, and it will use your native window manager to run in windowed mode (with the new "Windowed mode" option). Fullscreen has not been tested much (although I think it works) and depends completely on its implementation in wine itself.
All black-screen issues have been fixed completely.
Upon a fresh start you will only be asked if you want to enable windowed mode.
All renderers now work in wine, not only ddraw32. However, even though OpenGL was added, its performance is still sub-par compared to Direct3D 9, both in wine and on Windows. Direct3D 9 is now the default renderer in use on all systems after Win9x.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ytrojan on January 12, 2019, 05:43 PM
Just bring the flaming health bars back that's all I want
[sarcasm]Yes. In fact, let's make any animated GIF be able to be used in Health bars, I feel it could work.[/sarcasm]

Seriously, though. While the flaming health bars are a good idea, the creation of the update has already been finished. However, I can see it happening in 3.9 or 4.0, which will likely be 5 years away

5 more years for something they removed from the game 15 years ago  :'(
They can also add it in the next update, if the players REALLY want it back. Or you can create a Wormkit module, shouldn't be too hard.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on January 12, 2019, 08:08 PM
Just wondering, is the windowed mode for the frontend the same as d3d9wnd, or can we finally drag the window around with normal window controls?
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: wza on January 12, 2019, 08:55 PM
Oh thanks for clearing that up steps!sounds awesome then!
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: ohms on January 13, 2019, 03:00 AM
Was there a plan at one point to merge WA with WWP in 4.0?
I vaguely remember this mentioned somewhere probably 10 years ago.

WWP was ported to Steam a couple years back with the promise of updates which amounted to nothing so interest in it didn't last (like every other Worms game they release) but there are still some cool features in it like the interface for extra game options you can add (extra long ropes, extra explosive explosives, and the like).
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Tomtysti on January 13, 2019, 12:02 PM
Holy hell! This is amazing news. Thank you DC and CS, you absolute legends :-*
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: StepS on January 13, 2019, 04:58 PM
WWP was ported to Steam a couple years back with the promise of updates which amounted to nothing so interest in it didn't last (like every other Worms game they release) but there are still some cool features in it like the interface for extra game options you can add (extra long ropes, extra explosive explosives, and the like).
More scheme features, like long ropes, will eventually be added.

Just wondering, is the windowed mode for the frontend the same as d3d9wnd, or can we finally drag the window around with normal window controls?
Spoiler! View

(https://i.imgur.com/1Au0QfZ.png)
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ytrojan on January 13, 2019, 10:52 PM
More scheme features, like long ropes, will eventually be added.
Does this mean a Project X-like environment will eventually be implemented?!


If yes, the day it is implemented in a release will be the day I finally uninstall 3.6.31.0, which is not only ancient, but doesn't work properly on Windows EIGHT (let alone 10) without Project X's rendering
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheKomodo on January 15, 2019, 12:01 AM
Another suggestion, change the "NASA Award" to "SpaceX Award".
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Thewolensheep on January 15, 2019, 03:37 PM
Another suggestion, change the "NASA Award" to "SpaceX Award".
That can already be done if you edit the English.txt file.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on January 16, 2019, 01:45 AM
WWP was ported to Steam a couple years back with the promise of updates which amounted to nothing so interest in it didn't last (like every other Worms game they release) but there are still some cool features in it like the interface for extra game options you can add (extra long ropes, extra explosive explosives, and the like).
More scheme features, like long ropes, will eventually be added.

Just wondering, is the windowed mode for the frontend the same as d3d9wnd, or can we finally drag the window around with normal window controls?
Spoiler! View

(https://i.imgur.com/1Au0QfZ.png)

Wow!! The new window mode looks so awesome. Great work everyone making that happen.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Stuka on January 19, 2019, 02:06 AM
what will be the date of its launch? will it be for steam??  ???
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: fraees on January 19, 2019, 01:49 PM
what will be the date of its launch?
I second that. As there's already a more-or-less exact changelog and the release is almost done, the devs are able to predict when it'll be 100% ready and published, aren't they?
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Plutonic on January 19, 2019, 02:26 PM
what will be the date of its launch?
I second that. As there's already a more-or-less exact changelog and the release is almost done, the devs are able to predict when it'll be 100% ready and published, aren't they?

Nope, development doesn't work like that. Any dev that says "it will definitely be done by X" is asking for trouble.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: fraees on January 19, 2019, 04:42 PM
Nope, development doesn't work like that. Any dev that says "it will definitely be done by X" is asking for trouble.

I didn't mean their prediction must be definitely accurate, though. I just asked for some estimations.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Sensei on January 29, 2019, 07:41 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/ir7VuPM.png)

Don't know if I read this ever before, but last night caught this funny situation.
Is this common thing or? Stats fanatics could find it bit contradictory, don't you think? :)


Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: WTF-8 on January 29, 2019, 08:23 PM
https://worms2d.info/Post-game_awards#Most_Entertaining_Team_and_Most_Boring_Team
Quote
If a team uses a lot of super weapons and causes a lot of damage and kills, but also takes a very long time to perform their turns, then they can actually achieve both the Most Entertaining Team and Most Boring Team awards at the same time!
I'd assume worm-specific awards work the same way
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Asbest on January 29, 2019, 10:09 PM
nevermind, lets see what this update will give
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on January 30, 2019, 12:21 AM
we waited 6 years for new worms update, and no real time... what the f*ck
Another way to look at it... we had 6 years with mostly silence, now we have a SIGNAL OF LIFE that WA is not dead, and plans for more frequent updates

Plus 3.8 has some substantial improvements:  baked in Rubberworm features and new scheme format, and native windowmode support

I've never heard the slightest hint of a rumour that realtime would be in this update. Maybe it will now be possible sooner because of the new scheme format.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: KinslayeR on January 30, 2019, 02:17 PM
ok, so they told us nice things so our dicks are hard, but the most important question, WHEN, when can I lunch WA and enjoy this all things?   in this year? in the next 10 years?? in this decade?   is not it just another "fuck off" topic?
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Kradie on January 30, 2019, 06:39 PM
ok, so they told us nice things so our dicks are hard, but the most important question, WHEN, when can I lunch WA and enjoy this all things?   in this year? in the next 10 years?? in this decade?   is not it just another "fuck off" topic?

10 years is a decade.

I think this topic was necessary to demonstrate that the developers are still caring and working on the game.  I highly doubt they are like this;


We should be glad that there is sign of life & support for the game. Not a lot of games in this day and age gets updated.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on January 30, 2019, 11:24 PM
Lmfao Kradie, nice clip. And topical.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: generic goose on January 31, 2019, 11:58 AM
looks like we've been gnomed again
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: WTF-8 on February 01, 2019, 12:13 AM
Quote from: basically everybody
when
Well, it's settled. Update delayed until December 31, 2022. Pack it up, boys! I'm sure all 7 people still playing W:A by then will find the wait worthwhile.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Kradie on February 01, 2019, 02:45 PM
Quote from: basically everybody
when
Well, it's settled. Update delayed until December 31, 2022. Pack it up, boys! I'm sure all 7 people still playing W:A by then will find the wait worthwhile.
Mr Why Tits Flourishes (WTF), could you be a good lad and provide the link of the topic & post that was made by CyberShadow?

So far based on my own analyzes of supposedly post by CyberShadow(Which I will assume is true atm), seems to contain a flavor of sarcasm. Still, this all leaves myself into more confusion. What is the purpose of this VERY topic that DeadCode brought to our attention? He even was on discord worm group imminent after his initial posting of this topic, answering people about this update and more. So with this type of initiation, it is only to assume that an update is on the horizon, presumable the year the sneak peak update was released.
It was 2 years ago CyberShadow revealed the release date of 3.8, now there's 3 more year left, and now developers decided to shed some light that the update is coming. Is this supposed to be some kind of a road map?

I am sorry, I just wish there could be more transparency. Then again, perhaps e.g DeadCode would feel forced to work harder if he actually did reveal an actual release date. I know maybe I would.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: fraees on February 01, 2019, 04:39 PM
Mr Why Tits Flourishes (WTF), could you be a good lad and provide the link of the topic & post that was made by CyberShadow?
I'm not WTF but you could just click on the "Quote by.." text to jump to the quote source. Anyway, here you go:
https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/should-they-release-worms-armageddon-v3-8-on-dec-31st-even-if-its-unfinished-31598/msg265562/#msg265562
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Kradie on February 01, 2019, 06:38 PM
Mr Why Tits Flourishes (WTF), could you be a good lad and provide the link of the topic & post that was made by CyberShadow?
I'm not WTF but you could just click on the "Quote by.." text to jump to the quote source. Anyway, here you go:
https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/should-they-release-worms-armageddon-v3-8-on-dec-31st-even-if-its-unfinished-31598/msg265562/#msg265562

I just realized, ah damn it's on me. Thank you though.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: lolicon-guy on February 03, 2019, 03:32 PM
I'm not any more entitled than any other member on this community, and I hope that DC/CS don't take me in the wrong way, I'm only talking off my little not-so-broad experience... I'm a beginner game developer, with some mates we've released a couple free fangames (actually ROMhacks but the same conditions in law/community/dev apply here), and I've already faced all sorts of ups and downs.
I'm not the best programmer either, I'm not as good as others for the logic work though I do best on visual sequences and effects, but on every single project we have released so far, no matter how complex or simple, no matter our focus, "skill", or timeline (even if infinite) to develop & test every feature, even if we total 5 programmers in the team with the best possible organization, no matter if we actually do a "better" job than the original creators... we WILL always get at least 1 bug or oddity, that WILL be found by 1 player within 1 month of release if not less! Under whatever condition, the "perfect" program is just inhuman!

Quote
I do W:A development as a labor of love. j0e hit the nail on the head saying "Maybe he'd lose his ambition to continue if he knowingly left imperfections that he knew he could easily fix." I'm in this for the long haul; I want to make W:A as good as it can be.

I like that sentiment. Personally, I've never been a fan of deadlines. Here's an example: You're working in a game that's very "important" to your public AND yourself too, you got an emotional attachment to the project, and is so technically advanced it plays vfx thought impossible. You're 7 days away from deadline, the ending sequence still has to be manually written (can't just play a video because HW limits), AND the artist doesn't have all sprites ready yet! Which means you have to improvise something to fill the gap; it's your responsability now, and you don't want the ending to suck nor screw it up, or you'll doom all your previous work to a safe failure. By that point, you have no brain to ensure the program is "logically right" nor optimized enough, or you'll have no time to ensure everything actually displays right on screen let alone have it ready on time.

For this, a game on its first public release is hardly ever "finished" at least according to original game plan; there's always that crude moment the team says "we have no time to develop new playable features, let's just finish/make the remaining menus or bonus levels, fix bugs, polish what we have now". Or that's what seems to be done for Sonic 2 and Mania (with its randomly missing transition cutscenes on first releases (!)).

---
HOWEVER, not having a deadline isn't always that good either! But I hope it's not the case for you or anyone else. Because when there's not it's easy to get "lazier" with the time, get 1/3 of game, and then lose any will/energy to keep going. I don't know why that happens to me, but it's very difficult to avoid unless it's a "short & simple" project or there was a constant emotional feedback. The only... "mental workaround" of sorts I've found so far, is to self-impose imaginary deadlines, just to stay awake. This way I'll get the adrenaline, an artificial emotional feedback to help me for the last weeks.
I remember that when I adopted this kind of workflow, I had a very bad look from another mate who does better than me on the coding "logic". After that, I tried to push myself to write logic on-par to her level, but this only led me to an "art block" of sorts and I gave up. I'm not nearly as good as her on it, but in this way I've managed to do a lot more "visible" work, even if more messy than before. For some reason I find myself with more time and mood to experiment new effects than ever before. Overall, I'm faster and more productive, even though I'm not that intelligent in comparison. The sad truth is, as long as the game program works and does it well, average player simply doesn't care unless there's a bug that's too awkward, or worsens/cheats the gameplay. If the worst programmer from the planet done a game that doesn't look buggy to the player (even if it's avoided with many kludges and such) nor slowdowns (too much), people will actually like it.
Within retro community, most people believe that the Megadrive/Genesis games made by japanese teams "push" the video hardware more than the rest, however if you compare the code from Red Zone against Sonic 3 & Knuckles, you'll see the former is infinitely better done.

The point is, I understand the perfectionism, I don't like mediocrity either, but stopping to patiently fix every single detail feels like an impossible goal, IMHO. Because nobody is perfect. And if I can't ever release a bug-free game, at least I'd try to keep things fun and fair, no?

If you have a different point of view, please let me know! I'm always eager to learn more
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Xrayez on February 03, 2019, 05:01 PM
lolicon-guy: I think you underestimate your abilities, and I can relate about perfectionism/motivation part.  :P

I think deadlines shouldn't create any promise, or they shouldn't be called like that. I'd prefer "milestone" term as it clearly defines what has to be done, no matter how much time involved to implement a feature.

When I want to create a deadline, it's only because motivation to continue plummets due to a bad reason. In these cases I remind myself of the very first reason why I'm doing something in the first place.

Lets face it, not all projects are going to be finished, so it's natural to freak out about things like that. But hey, skills don't die, so nothing is wasted.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: generic goose on February 10, 2019, 10:59 AM
come on say something
at least say its cancelled and will never come out so we dont have to wait
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on February 23, 2019, 05:21 PM
I'm hoping the delay is for actual improvements, rather than the stated need to reorganize/regroup the changelog entries. Either way I understand the desire not to push a flawed release .. keep up the good work guys!
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: skunk3 on March 01, 2019, 01:43 PM
So when is the patch coming out? It's now the first of March. I mainly want to know because every time I try logging into WormNET lately it's totally dead... nothing but idlers on snoopers and maybe a couple of random nobodies here and there, but a lot of the time there is literally nobody (present) in #AG. I'd like to start playing some W:A again but without activity I don't feel like wasting my time. Please don't misunderstand this as me feeling entitled to anything, because that's not it at all.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: STRGRN on March 01, 2019, 03:06 PM
So when is the patch coming out? It's now the first of March. I mainly want to know because every time I try logging into WormNET lately it's totally dead... nothing but idlers on snoopers and maybe a couple of random nobodies here and there, but a lot of the time there is literally nobody (present) in #AG. I'd like to start playing some W:A again but without activity I don't feel like wasting my time. Please don't misunderstand this as me feeling entitled to anything, because that's not it at all.

just play offline games against yourself (preferably 3 or 4 teams), it's more fun than you think
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Kradie on March 02, 2019, 07:05 AM
So when is the patch coming out? It's now the first of March. I mainly want to know because every time I try logging into WormNET lately it's totally dead... nothing but idlers on snoopers and maybe a couple of random nobodies here and there, but a lot of the time there is literally nobody (present) in #AG. I'd like to start playing some W:A again but without activity I don't feel like wasting my time. Please don't misunderstand this as me feeling entitled to anything, because that's not it at all.

I continuously receive activity through my Zar games. From both new and established players, both are frequent and recurring players of my games. So no, WA is clearly not dead at all. Though I do admit, there are times where I have to wait more than five minutes. Then again, it all depends on time of the day.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ytrojan on March 02, 2019, 06:24 PM
So when is the patch coming out? It's now the first of March. I mainly want to know because every time I try logging into WormNET lately it's totally dead... nothing but idlers on snoopers and maybe a couple of random nobodies here and there, but a lot of the time there is literally nobody (present) in #AG. I'd like to start playing some W:A again but without activity I don't feel like wasting my time. Please don't misunderstand this as me feeling entitled to anything, because that's not it at all.
It should be out before summer, hopefully. It's been over FIVE years since the last update, and STILL nothing.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on March 24, 2019, 05:31 PM
Any news/tidbits/rumours?
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Sensei on March 24, 2019, 05:47 PM
I think main goal atm is to get on more stable server. Dunno how much you're active j0e, but every 2-3 games, WormNET just dies for everyone that hosted via hb or wormnat2. I don't see 3.8 being released in these circumstances.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: CyberShadow on April 04, 2019, 10:30 PM
I think main goal atm is to get on more stable server. Dunno how much you're active j0e, but every 2-3 games, WormNET just dies for everyone that hosted via hb or wormnat2. I don't see 3.8 being released in these circumstances.

You are correct in that nearly all of my time lately has been spent in relation to setting up the new server. However, I'd like to add to that, that server-related matters are solely my responsibility, and, as far as I understand, and excluding doing anything disagreeable, there is nothing that I can do to expedite the next update's release.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: nino on April 05, 2019, 02:18 PM
CyberShadow just to let you know in case you dont know, we all love you ae cos kings!

ty buddy for all u did and do to us.  8)
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheMadCharles on April 05, 2019, 02:55 PM
so about us throwing money at you guys
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on April 08, 2019, 04:29 AM
Thanks for the info Cybershadow!!! Your work maintaining HB/WormNAT is most appreciated - WA would be long-dead without those things.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: ohms on May 02, 2019, 08:57 AM
I think main goal atm is to get on more stable server. Dunno how much you're active j0e, but every 2-3 games, WormNET just dies for everyone that hosted via hb or wormnat2. I don't see 3.8 being released in these circumstances.

You are correct in that nearly all of my time lately has been spent in relation to setting up the new server. However, I'd like to add to that, that server-related matters are solely my responsibility, and, as far as I understand, and excluding doing anything disagreeable, there is nothing that I can do to expedite the next update's release.


Cheers for the update.  ;D
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: r3spect on May 04, 2019, 01:17 PM
So when is the patch coming out? It's now the first of March. I mainly want to know because every time I try logging into WormNET lately it's totally dead... nothing but idlers on snoopers and maybe a couple of random nobodies here and there, but a lot of the time there is literally nobody (present) in #AG. I'd like to start playing some W:A again but without activity I don't feel like wasting my time. Please don't misunderstand this as me feeling entitled to anything, because that's not it at all.


Do you think that more players will come after the patch? I personally do not think ...
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on June 07, 2019, 01:20 PM
I know of at least one player who plans to come back..
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Kradie on June 07, 2019, 01:40 PM
The update seem significant enough for a reissue, and If it is marketed properly, it could accumulate more players.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on June 08, 2019, 03:17 AM
The update seem significant enough for a reissue, and If it is marketed properly, it could accumulate more players.
I'd be all for that if it meant Cybershadow and Deadcode were getting paid. Team 17 doesn't deserve to cash in on their work otherwise. Even though they do keep the server running.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Mega`Adnan on June 08, 2019, 08:07 AM
wHeN WiLL YoU ReLeAsE iT GuYs?!?!!!111ONE
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ytrojan on June 08, 2019, 05:36 PM
wHeN WiLL YoU ReLeAsE iT GuYs?!?!!!111ONE
Hopefully before the end of the year, at the latest. The last thing we need is the community dying, and this might be what saves it. Now, I would prefer they release it now, but they may or may not be done. I really care about this game's future, and if it dies, there would be a hole in my life that would never be filled. I hope they can release this soon. It is a real detriment to the community that we've waited this long for an update.

By the way, I graduated High School last Tuesday.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: KinslayeR on June 09, 2019, 10:04 PM
the most important question is:  will my  grandchildrens live to try some 3.8?
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ytrojan on June 09, 2019, 10:34 PM
the most important question is:  will my  grandchildrens live to try some 3.8?
Hopefully, they won't even be BORN before 3.8 comes out, but I might be optimistic. As far as we know, 3.8 might come out on the same day as Half Life 3, which is in the year 1 ATE (After Time Era).
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Godmax on August 01, 2019, 07:00 PM
Almost ready for release he says :D I am still laughing
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: ohms on September 25, 2019, 09:39 AM
Do you think that more players will come after the patch? I personally do not think ...

Well, I haven't played for months. Me and my mates are basically putting off playing till the update comes at this stage.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: VitAp on September 26, 2019, 11:25 PM
David be a man! Show that you have balls. Bring it to an end this year.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GO9xn0VN86AfZB6tiC40R_tX415m-W_rCj6umxhJc8voLFE3fJDEJbcw24CSlMNMvUfeuEkDhq0=w128-h128-e365)
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheMadCharles on September 28, 2019, 05:42 PM
VitAp on TUS Pog

at this point, I'd rather move on to another game than to bore myself to death
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Sensei on September 29, 2019, 05:06 AM

at this point, I'd rather move on to another game than to bore myself to death

Busting devs balls won't get us anywhere closer to releasement of this update.  So if you want to move on - do it. Silently ;)
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Tomi on September 29, 2019, 07:04 AM

at this point, I'd rather move on to another game than to bore myself to death

Busting devs balls won't get us anywhere closer to releasement of this update.  So if you want to move on - do it. Silently ;)
+1, gtfo noobs, but silently please ;)
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: MonkeyIsland on September 30, 2019, 06:29 AM
The list of update changes alone should tell you that the developers have done their job. The stalling is coming from somewhere else.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Kradie on September 30, 2019, 10:24 AM
The list of update changes alone should tell you that the developers have done their job. The stalling is coming from somewhere else.

It could as well be Team17, it is ultimately up to them to decide whenever a new update should be released. That's what I wager on.

Usually in video game companies, developers are completely forbidden from talking with anyone outside of the company about anything, and all communication needs to be done by assigned and properly trained spokespersons ("community managers"). All information then usually flows in only one direction - out of the company and only on strictly defined schedules, and players have no choice but to sit and wait until the next PR announcement happens on the company's whim. But, this is not the situation that we are in. Our agreements with Team17 do restrict us in what we can do in many ways, but our duty remains primarily to the community. Or, at least, that's how I feel anyway.

For full quote, visit this thread
https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/3-8-32380/

Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Sir-J on October 02, 2019, 09:32 PM
Call me crazy, but I think WA only needed 1 patch throughout its lifespan. With features being high resolution support, infinite turn time and ability to minimize the game.

Was there really a demand for big and colored maps back in the day? This feature is the reason why modern worms era is so bad. Everyone plays on big maps instead of tight ones. I hate big rr, tower rr, trick race and other noob schemes that were made because of that feature.

Someone said replays are a must-have or a league wouldn't function properly. Well, there were leagues before replays, not to mention built-in ranks which allowed to play ranked games within the game. They could bring it back instead of adding useless features.

HostingBuddy? Why not implement wkWormNAT into the game so people can host games on their own without having to memorize a bunch of commands or enable port-forwarding in router's settings? This is very complicated for the average user.

Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, but I feel that so much effort was wasted while it could be used more efficiently (e.g. for creating a matchmaking system or at least bringing ranks back).
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Kaleu on October 02, 2019, 10:14 PM
Call me crazy, but I think WA only needed 1 patch throughout its lifespan. With features being high resolution support, infinite turn time and ability to minimize the game.

Was there really a demand for big and colored maps back in the day? This feature is the reason why modern worms era is so bad. Everyone plays on big maps instead of tight ones. I hate big rr, tower rr, trick race and other noob schemes that were made because of that feature.

Someone said replays are a must-have or a league wouldn't function properly. Well, there were leagues before replays, not to mention built-in ranks which allowed to play ranked games within the game. They could bring it back instead of adding useless features.

HostingBuddy? Why not implement wkWormNAT into the game so people can host games on their own without having to memorize a bunch of commands or enable port-forwarding in router's settings? This is very complicated for the average user.

Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings, but I feel that so much effort was wasted while it could be used more efficiently (e.g. for creating a matchmaking system or at least bringing ranks back).

But how will I move on with my life without spending my whole day playing mole shoppers and supersheepers with random people dependent of HB?  :'(
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Sir-J on October 02, 2019, 10:35 PM
But how will I move on with my life without spending my whole day playing mole shoppers and supersheepers with random people dependent of HB?  :'(

If wkWormNAT was built-in anyone could host without trouble, which means more supersheepers and mole shoppers for your pleasure.

I should have mentioned that compatibility fixes are necessary, as well as bug fixes, I was only talking about features.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Sensei on October 03, 2019, 06:12 AM
HostingBuddy? Why not implement wkWormNAT into the game so people can host games on their own without having to memorize a bunch of commands or enable port-forwarding in router's settings? This is very complicated for the average user.

I said this couple of times. StepS found time to answer me once. Apparently it would be illegal to implement outside feature in to the game, cause T17 are still the ones making final decisions. (or something like that)

Would be nice tho.. For newcomers clicking "Host" button, that it actually works.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Sir-J on October 03, 2019, 08:17 AM
Apparently it would be illegal to implement outside feature in to the game, cause T17 are still the ones making final decisions. (or something like that)

But Deadcode implemented RubberWorm in 3.8 as a 'new scheme format', couldn't they do the same with wkWormNAT? Maybe even rewrite some of the code, name it differently, whatever. Seriously, this, along with matchmaking system and/or ranks are the most important features this game should have. I bet many people would start playing again if it was easy to host and play ranked games on wormnet.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheKomodo on October 03, 2019, 11:49 AM
Someone said replays are a must-have or a league wouldn't function properly. Well, there were leagues before replays, not to mention built-in ranks which allowed to play ranked games within the game. They could bring it back instead of adding useless features.

A League system integrated into WormNet would be ideal, but since "the big hack" I doubt that will happen again, after that sure we had Leagues before replays were around but there were so many issues, it was easier to cheat, replays also help to identify possible tampering when players decide to quit the game because they are losing, replays also help to identify people breaking the rules of any scheme because we can watch the game again.

Without replays, unfortunately you can't trust everyone to play fairly :/

Also, those schemes you mentioned are not just for noobs, as everything, it starts off with a low skill level, and with practise and passion, people get ridiculously good.

The only scheme I would definitely say takes no skill to play, would be Comet Dodging, obviously, everything else requires a great amount of skill/dedication at the highest level.

I think colour maps are really nice, I can't imagine this game without them now, it would be much duller...
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Sir-J on October 03, 2019, 12:05 PM
They had to prioritize things properly: first and foremost integrate league into the game, then make it easy to host games and only after that implement other features. That would make WA future-proof.

As for cheaters, some kind of anti-cheating software could be developed. Just like it's done in counter-strike and other games. And it'd be even better than replays, because we wouldn't need to contact the developers everytime when someone cheats.

Also, those schemes you mentioned are not just for noobs, as everything, it starts off with a low skill level, and with practise and passion, people get ridiculously good.

The only scheme I would definitely say takes no skill to play, would be Comet Dodging, obviously, everything else requires a great amount of skill/dedication at the highest level.

It was subjective. I just don't like those schemes. Even a shopper can be hard if you're playing against someone who's very good at it. I'm just disappointed that it's hard to find ttrr players anymore because everyone plays big rr instead.

I think colour maps are really nice, I can't imagine this game without them now, it would be much duller...

Subjective again, I could survive without them for sure.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheKomodo on October 03, 2019, 03:02 PM
Regardless of cheating, and leagues, replays are just nice to have so you can watch games, make movies, use them educationally to learn stuff, show off cool tricks, and it's a great way to relive past glorious competitive games such as Playoffs and stuff, I always found it useful to watch Clanner Playoffs after they finished because usually you weren't able to watch as both clans took up all the spectator slots.

I'm just disappointed that it's hard to find ttrr players anymore because everyone plays big rr instead.

I feel you there man, I wish Darts was active, and BnG could reach it's former glory with the b2b community hosting Tournaments and playing friendly 2v2/3v3 games, not to mention being able to compete in active Clanners again...

However, at least we were there to enjoy it while it lasted, all good things must come to an end, such is life.

I feel grateful and privileged to have shared so many great moments and fun games with everyone over the years, even the villains like Doubletime were not boring lol.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Sir-J on October 03, 2019, 03:59 PM
However, at least we were there to enjoy it while it lasted, all good things must come to an end, such is life.

I guess WA will die eventually, it'd be foolish to think otherwise. Anyway, as long as there are people to play with the game is not dead. Even if it's not as active as it used to be.

Matchmaking system is most likely never going to happen, but they could fix hosting issues at least. It's the most common problem beginners face. Who knows how many people gave up because they couldn't figure out how to host a game.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheKomodo on October 04, 2019, 08:43 AM
Who knows how many people gave up because they couldn't figure out how to host a game.

True, people are not as keen to learn these days unlike before, seems they only want to play games that do everything for them these days lol.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: WTF-8 on October 04, 2019, 10:43 AM
Was there really a demand for big and colored maps back in the day?
Was there a demand for electricity back in stone age?

This feature is the reason why modern worms era is so bad. Everyone plays on big maps instead of tight ones. I hate big rr, tower rr, trick race and other noob schemes that were made because of that feature.
We shouldn't promote drug use on TUS.
Do it in safety of your home guys, stop sharing opinions with others when you're high.

there were leagues before replays
Were they any good? Usability, cheat-proofing etc

built-in ranks which allowed to play ranked games within the game. They could bring it back
How long would it last before getting hackered again?

Why not implement wkWormNAT into the game
It currently depends on a community server, what if it goes down? If everyone was to start using it, would the server go fine with this extra load?
Remaking all of this into an official feature with proper support would be great yeah.

As for cheaters, some kind of anti-cheating software could be developed. Just like it's done in counter-strike and other games.
While some kinds of cheats can be avoided by restructuring the game logic, others aren't really avoidable - such as macros or aimbots. One exception to this are anti-cheat modules, such as GameGuard and Valve Anti-Cheat. We really don't want to go in this direction, since such software usually intrudes on players' privacy and is expensive (in terms of resources) to develop and maintain.
[...]
Blocking WormKit-like software is impossible, short of going the GameGuard-like rootkit-spyware route.

it's hard to find ttrr players anymore because everyone plays big rr instead.
Just play tight Big RR maps then.
Doubt TTRR's player count would increase much even if Big RR was suddenly gone forever. I wouldn't want to train for months, find a good keyboard and find a worthy opponent who did the same, all just to have a good game.
I guess bigrr is like billiards and ttrr is like snooker...

billiards is more accesible for most, while snooker requires more precise control

Without replays, unfortunately you can't trust everyone to play fairly :/
*shrugs* I can't trust everyone to play fairly even with replays.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Korydex on October 04, 2019, 12:48 PM
WA has UPnP and host bot atleast, some games don't even have that. However an option to use WormNAT out of the box could be added I guess. But anyway I don't think that people who couldn't figure out hosting would become valuable part of the community
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheKomodo on October 04, 2019, 05:09 PM
I love the word "hackered"  :D

Reminds me of what we say when we are tired - nackered.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Sir-J on October 05, 2019, 09:05 PM
This feature is the reason why modern worms era is so bad. Everyone plays on big maps instead of tight ones. I hate big rr, tower rr, trick race and other noob schemes that were made because of that feature.
We shouldn't promote drug use on TUS.
Do it in safety of your home guys, stop sharing opinions with others when you're high.

Yeah, I had to refrain from posting a stupid opinion. You're right.

As for the rest of your post, seems like the devs know what they're doing and what I've come up with has already been asked and discussed numerous times. Fine, I'll do a research before writing a post next time. Sorry about that.

But anyway I don't think that people who couldn't figure out hosting would become valuable part of the community

Exactly. It takes a minute to find a hosting guide and follow the instructions. If people can't be bothered to do that, they're better off playing another game.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: TheKomodo on October 06, 2019, 05:25 PM
Unfortunately the world isn't full of sapiophiles  :'(
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ashtar on October 11, 2019, 01:56 AM
Version 3.7.0.0 was released right before Christmas. Could there be an upcoming Christmas surprise for us again? Just my random thought.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on October 11, 2019, 05:49 PM
You are correct in that nearly all of my time lately has been spent in relation to setting up the new server. However, I'd like to add to that, that server-related matters are solely my responsibility, and, as far as I understand, and excluding doing anything disagreeable, there is nothing that I can do to expedite the next update's release.
Might be time to start exploring these "disagreeable" options ;).
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Ytrojan on October 14, 2019, 07:57 PM
Was there really a demand for big and colored maps back in the day?
Was there a demand for electricity back in stone age?

This feature is the reason why modern worms era is so bad. Everyone plays on big maps instead of tight ones. I hate big rr, tower rr, trick race and other noob schemes that were made because of that feature.
We shouldn't promote drug use on TUS.
Do it in safety of your home guys, stop sharing opinions with others when you're high.

there were leagues before replays
Were they any good? Usability, cheat-proofing etc

built-in ranks which allowed to play ranked games within the game. They could bring it back
How long would it last before getting hackered again?

Why not implement wkWormNAT into the game
It currently depends on a community server, what if it goes down? If everyone was to start using it, would the server go fine with this extra load?
Remaking all of this into an official feature with proper support would be great yeah.

As for cheaters, some kind of anti-cheating software could be developed. Just like it's done in counter-strike and other games.
While some kinds of cheats can be avoided by restructuring the game logic, others aren't really avoidable - such as macros or aimbots. One exception to this are anti-cheat modules, such as GameGuard and Valve Anti-Cheat. We really don't want to go in this direction, since such software usually intrudes on players' privacy and is expensive (in terms of resources) to develop and maintain.
[...]
Blocking WormKit-like software is impossible, short of going the GameGuard-like rootkit-spyware route.

it's hard to find ttrr players anymore because everyone plays big rr instead.
Just play tight Big RR maps then.
Doubt TTRR's player count would increase much even if Big RR was suddenly gone forever. I wouldn't want to train for months, find a good keyboard and find a worthy opponent who did the same, all just to have a good game.
I guess bigrr is like billiards and ttrr is like snooker...

billiards is more accesible for most, while snooker requires more precise control

Without replays, unfortunately you can't trust everyone to play fairly :/
*shrugs* I can't trust everyone to play fairly even with replays.
1. I think the Stone Age didn't even know what "electric" even MEANT!
2. Drugs are bad, M'Kay.
3. Not to mention, all of the lost history because the matches never got recorded.
4. I think a wrestling-like "belt" system might be good, since I bet that wouldn't be hacked anytime soon. If a player hasn't played in 6 months, vacate the title.
5. We can last one more version with separate WormNAT, it won't be the end of the world. Besides, adding WormNAT would only delay this version FURTHER.
6. Or worse: DENUVO!
7. Plus, noobs (and noobs at heart, like I am.) HATE timed matches.
8. On top of that, Replays are the reason we can look at many players today. The matches we played before the replays are like the Early history of TV: Nothing got recorded, so there's LITERALLY nothing to watch because nothing even EXISTS these days. Even now, replays are the KEY to the preservation of the history of this game.
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Korydex on October 15, 2019, 04:20 AM
Was there really a demand for big and colored maps back in the day?
Was there a demand for electricity back in stone age?

This feature is the reason why modern worms era is so bad. Everyone plays on big maps instead of tight ones. I hate big rr, tower rr, trick race and other noob schemes that were made because of that feature.
We shouldn't promote drug use on TUS.
Do it in safety of your home guys, stop sharing opinions with others when you're high.

there were leagues before replays
Were they any good? Usability, cheat-proofing etc

built-in ranks which allowed to play ranked games within the game. They could bring it back
How long would it last before getting hackered again?

Why not implement wkWormNAT into the game
It currently depends on a community server, what if it goes down? If everyone was to start using it, would the server go fine with this extra load?
Remaking all of this into an official feature with proper support would be great yeah.

As for cheaters, some kind of anti-cheating software could be developed. Just like it's done in counter-strike and other games.
While some kinds of cheats can be avoided by restructuring the game logic, others aren't really avoidable - such as macros or aimbots. One exception to this are anti-cheat modules, such as GameGuard and Valve Anti-Cheat. We really don't want to go in this direction, since such software usually intrudes on players' privacy and is expensive (in terms of resources) to develop and maintain.
[...]
Blocking WormKit-like software is impossible, short of going the GameGuard-like rootkit-spyware route.

it's hard to find ttrr players anymore because everyone plays big rr instead.
Just play tight Big RR maps then.
Doubt TTRR's player count would increase much even if Big RR was suddenly gone forever. I wouldn't want to train for months, find a good keyboard and find a worthy opponent who did the same, all just to have a good game.
I guess bigrr is like billiards and ttrr is like snooker...

billiards is more accesible for most, while snooker requires more precise control

Without replays, unfortunately you can't trust everyone to play fairly :/
*shrugs* I can't trust everyone to play fairly even with replays.
1. I think the Stone Age didn't even know what "electric" even MEANT!
2. Drugs are bad, M'Kay.
3. Not to mention, all of the lost history because the matches never got recorded.
4. I think a wrestling-like "belt" system might be good, since I bet that wouldn't be hacked anytime soon. If a player hasn't played in 6 months, vacate the title.
5. We can last one more version with separate WormNAT, it won't be the end of the world. Besides, adding WormNAT would only delay this version FURTHER.
6. Or worse: DENUVO!
7. Plus, noobs (and noobs at heart, like I am.) HATE timed matches.
8. On top of that, Replays are the reason we can look at many players today. The matches we played before the replays are like the Early history of TV: Nothing got recorded, so there's LITERALLY nothing to watch because nothing even EXISTS these days. Even now, replays are the KEY to the preservation of the history of this game.
you're on crack
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: j0e on November 16, 2019, 03:02 AM
Any news?
Title: Re: Worms Armageddon 3.8.0 changelog sneak peek
Post by: Godmax on November 17, 2019, 11:54 AM
1 year passed they are shitting on us. Not that we need 3.8 ofc