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[SOLVED] sitter or not?

Started by Peja, March 02, 2013, 08:58 AM

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Peja

https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-139969/

final shot of dt at 01:00:24

someone told me nade didnt move for 0.26 seconds and theres just a sprite change in last frame.
im rather interested in the judgement because it was kinda close as possible. no need to delete game if its a sitter.

MonkeyIsland

That's a sitter to me. If you'd like, you can void your 1 hour game :)
Due to massive misunderstandings: MonkeyIsland refers to an island not a monkey. I would be a monkey, if my name was IslandMonkey meaning a monkey who is or lives on an island. MonkeyIsland is an island which is related to monkeys. Also there's been a legend around saying MonkeyIsland is a game. So please, think of me as an island or a game.

TheKomodo

Rules for TuS state 0.25s for it to be a sitter, however this grenade stops moving at 0.24, so it's a valid shot.

If you press "S" during replay just as the grenade goes over the head of PeJa or Kyho, can't remember who it is lol... And then keep pressing S until it gets to 0.26.

Press S one more time, and you will see that the grenade moves from 0.26-0.24.

So yeah, it's allowed I am afraid, besides, I wouldn't say this is really a lame shot, it was a good bounceback that unfortunately got caught on that small part.

MI - Did you even watch the replay? Rules state it is not a sitter.

Statik

The shot was good, dunno why Peja was so frustrated by it, just bl with that sticky nade :)

Quote from: beer on August 04, 2009, 07:04 PM
bng sucks


dt`wreckz: zooks are effected my win

lacoste

Sprite change is not a movement, Komo. Its like you had a rule to stop moving your worm, and then there was animation of him making some expresion or whatever even if you stand still at this point. Ofc it was unlucky sticker, but you may expect it sitting when throwing almost flat 4s nade with min bounce, thats the part i dont like. You get sitters most often coz of that.
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TheKomodo

How is it not movement? It moved... It clearly moved clockwise... Which means it was still in motion and settling so to speak.

Worms are different from weapons, weapons don't have arms and faces, they don't yawn or rub their chin... At least grenades and bazookas.

If a grenade has infinite fuse, and it's clearly not moving, it doesn't start doing things on it's own like the worms do.

Unless I am misunderstanding what you are saying, or this last movement where the grenade turns clockwise doesn't count for some reason, the grenade clearly moves from 0.26 - 0.24.

lacoste

What i mean is its stuck in 1 place, no matter if its making circles.
<Ramone> we're just nicknames
<Ramone> isn't that sad..

<Johnny`> !fart
* Johnny` has farted out 0 Scoville units.
<Johnny`> Sonova

My W:A related channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/HighCostage


Impossible

#7
on the strength of w:a physics the nade is rolling if it have active vertical or horizontal speed. I didnt watch the replay but I guess grenade got stuck with pretty high speed variable. Its sounds hilarious but there is difference between real world and worms physics. On reality if grenade will get on tight place without a chance to move it will loose all it force at the next moment, meanwhile on W:A nade will keep bouncing till it loose all the speed even when it looks like it stay on the same place.
On sitter if you hack the replay and remove all terrain grenade will just fall down because of gravity.
But here it will probably fly off to the one of the sides because of it hspeed

TheKomodo

Yes I can see that it's stuck.

- Sitters are not allowed. (Sitters are grenades that sit for 1/4 second or longer). The penalty for a sitter is a Grenade or Bazooka to and from yourself in an attempt to cause the same damage you previously inflicted.

So I guess this means when the grenade is locked in position, and not when the grenade stops moving.

If that's the case then maybe it's a sitter, as it locks into place at 0.26.

But we could also argue, using the literal term of the word "sit":


sit:

1.
to rest with the body supported by the buttocks or thighs; be seated.
2.
to be located or situated: The house sits well up on the slope.
3.
to rest or lie (usually followed by on  or upon  ): An aura of greatness sits easily upon him.
4.
to place oneself in position for an artist, photographer, etc.; pose: to sit for a portrait.
5.
to remain quiet or inactive: They let the matter sit.

I mean, the grenade is upside down so it isn't sitting(plus the fact nades don't have an ass), we can't use the 2nd definition, the 3rd definition isn't very accurate either, or the 4th really, and if we use the 5th, then the fact the grenade was still moving clockwise means it was still active...

We would have to change the definition of the sitter rule to define something like "Once the grenade is locked into position (when it stops moving, up, down, left, right, diagonal), rotation of the grenade sprite is not included."

But I feel like the rule should be based on complete movement, because as you notice, from 0.32 - 0.30 it moves 1 pixel from right to left, from 0.30 - 0.28 it stays still and it doesn't move at all, weird, then from 0.28 - 0.26 it moves 1 pixel from left to right, and finally from 0.26 - 0.24 it rotates I guess 1 movement clockwise...

Even using the term "sit" I still think this is a valid shot... The grenade is in the process of "sitting down" until 0.24s. It still hasn't officially "locked into place" until 0.24s. If we were timing this professionally I reckon the timing would start on 0.24.

I mean, how do you think of someone sitting in a chair? Back leaned forward, head down, arms holding onto arms of the chair? Or already settled down calm and comfortable? Would you start timing someone sitting in a chair from the very second their ass touches the chair, or actually sit up straight?


I really don't think this is fair to call this a sitter, the rule isn't accurate enough in my opinion to judge the decision purely on the wording of the rules, I don't see either team playing "lame" at any point in the game, this was a good shot at the end, you can clearly see the grenade is still moving until 0.24, to me he was just trying to throw a grenade to take around 20-30 damage, and this type of shot is usually perfect for this...

Of course this is not my choice, I guess i've went into ridiculous detail here, but i've always been under the assumption a sitter is when the grenade stops moving, this includes rotation... And these guys played good enough they made the right shot at the right time.

avirex

I did not watch the replay [or the game, even though i was there)

If monkey island says its void, then void it..  Thanks for your input  komo, if what you say is true,.and you have no reason to make it up (regarding replay facts) i agree with you. Nade stops when sprite stops.. Its the only fair way to accurately determine a sitter every time.

But if monkey island thinks otherwise, void it.


I know that was not your intention peeja, but we don'twant wins like this.

Peja

and i dont want games void for an accident, like komo said the shot was fine, just bl it got stuck. really the main reason i posted is because this stuff is weird and somehow not fully covered by the current rules.

Kyho

Well I downloaded replay today. Void isn't needed there imo. Nade could bounce on right or left after Sebha shot, just a bl it sitted right in the perfect place.

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darKz

I don't know about you guys but that's a perfect sitter to me. The TUS rule with that 0.25sec thing (there isn't even odd-numbered steps in W:A because of 50fps) is strange anyway, if it doesn't move it's a sitter.
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Crazy

Quote from: Komito on March 02, 2013, 10:33 AM"I mean, how do you think of someone sitting in a chair? Back leaned forward, head down, arms holding onto arms of the chair? Or already settled down calm and comfortable? Would you start timing someone sitting in a chair from the very second their ass touches the chair, or actually sit up straight?"

Hahaha, nice comparision Komo! I was trying to come to a conclusion over this game as well, but it was difficult. Granade still has a movement from 0.26 to 0.24. But I think you have to look on the overall picture. They had already played this game for 1 hour (duh!), and sebha didn't intend to do a sitter on purpose. At the same time throwing a 4 sec nade without any lg or maxbounce in that angle is a bit risky...

Does the rules regaring sitter need to be more specific? I dunno, we rarely see special cases like this one. Usually we can use common sense to solve it I guess

TheKomodo

Quote from: darKz on March 02, 2013, 11:31 AM
I don't know about you guys but that's a perfect sitter to me. The TUS rule with that 0.25sec thing (there isn't even odd-numbered steps in W:A because of 50fps) is strange anyway, if it doesn't move it's a sitter.

Ok so you say, if it doesn't move it's a sitter, then this isn't a sitter because it is still moving until 0.24s.