Checking times in RR

[Flori]

2 years i'm repeating at school and you try to convince me by maths. Your post look like a chinese message to me.

[Mablak]

Hah sorry. It just means this: including draws gives the better player a slightly better chance of winning, than if you just went by exact times. And the effect is slightly more pronounced in 2v2, because you can tie with a larger difference between times.

[TheKomodo]

Why is it you guys are saying it bothers you so much to check a replay for milliseconds, yet you would be happy enough to go checking through a replay if there was a possible cow on a crucial turn of a game, for example, a grenade done a sitter in a BnG for 0.26s or 0.24s but the rules account only for 0.25s.

In a WxW for example, the recent WxW Tournament I done which was Masta Vs guuuria, and it was guuurias turn, she didn't technically touch the far wall, because checking it in the slowest framerate in the replay, you can see the worm touched the roof, not the wall, the sound did not activate until the roof was touched, but because some of the worms sprite was layering over the wall, MonkeyIsland allowed it and guuuria got the win, everyone was happy to check this and wait, and it took around 6 minutes or something to come to a decision.

You guys are being kinda, innocently hypocritical I think, like, you already do similar stuff but don't realise the similarities.

TTRR should be MS for both 1v1/2v2.

We should be thinking "Specifically, did they win or not?" Not, "Well, they were close enough let's just allow it..."

[Desetroyah]

Flori: The only reason people go by whole seconds is for convenience, it doesn't make sense at all to check the exact times and then not go by them. Also, it would be much more logical go by a 1 second margin of error regardless of the truncated times, so that 105.5 and 106.5 would be considered a draw.

This is perfectly logical but, at the same time, no one would agree on, which proves to me that checking ds in all rr's is the right thing to do if you use a detached approach to the scheme.

At the same time, draws are fun and make things exciting, but arent 100% fair for the person who had the fastest time  but was still within the same second of the opponent.

My solution would be this:

- Use ds on 1v1 only to judge a winner after 4-5 draws for the same game, and

- Use ds on 2v2 all the time because of the big error it can leave.

Nonetheless, I cant see why would anyone fix what isnt broken. I'd say opponents simply state beforehand their intentions on the subject and go on, kinda like an agreement to add inf teles in TUS bng for example.

[Statik]

Just a note: 1ms = 1/1000s. WA shows only hundredths of seconds (1cs = 1/100s). So 34.56 = 34 seconds and 560 milliseconds, but not 56ms. So be careful with calling it "ms" Wiki

[Desetroyah]

Yeh yeh, didnt sleep enough last night, "centiseconds" it is.

*EDIT* wrong again haha, I'll try get some sleep before posting again

[Flori]

Why is it you guys are saying it bothers you so much to check a replay for milliseconds, yet you would be happy enough to go checking through a replay if there was a possible cow on a crucial turn of a game, for example, a grenade done a sitter in a BnG for 0.26s or 0.24s but the rules account only for 0.25s.

In a WxW for example, the recent WxW Tournament I done which was Masta Vs guuuria, and it was guuurias turn, she didn't technically touch the far wall, because checking it in the slowest framerate in the replay, you can see the worm touched the roof, not the wall, the sound did not activate until the roof was touched, but because some of the worms sprite was layering over the wall, MonkeyIsland allowed it and guuuria got the win, everyone was happy to check this and wait, and it took around 6 minutes or something to come to a decision.

You guys are being kinda, innocently hypocritical I think, like, you already do similar stuff but don't realise the similarities.

TTRR should be MS for both 1v1/2v2.

We should be thinking "Specifically, did they win or not?" Not, "Well, they were close enough let's just allow it..."

You don't know me well komo because i'd NEVER look the time of a sit or looking replay if the guy hit the roof or did a knock on ground. Its fine for me its involuntary and i accept mistakes like that.

I repeat myself but last rr vs daina for example :
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-115729/
2 draws.
1st game. I draw on last worm im damn f@#!ing happy.
2st game. She draws on last worm she is f@#!ing happy AND i think something like "damn what a bitch i wanna own her so hard on 3rd game"
I always prefer 1-2 or more draws in rr than 1 game. This add so much excitation and fun.
Damn it i prefer 100 times a game (any schemes) not usual and exciting even if i lose it at the end than winning a basic game.
An other example : In roper if i lose in sd by after 10 turns because it was damn hard to do the w2w and my opponent was better than me at this, i had a lot of fun and excitation on this fight and i prefer this than winning in 5 minutes because my opponent sucked.
I understand you can think this is not right, that by the law of physics you shouldn't risk to lose the game whereas u had a better time on 1st game, but for me the feeling i have when me or opponent draw on last worm is so good that we shouldnt take it off by changing the rule...It'll break somehow the fun of the schemes.

Anyway, im sure there is more players that prefer keep the usual rule 1v1 (about 2v2 i can understand a little modification) than changing to milliseconds.
We could just do a vote tho, i feel like we can do 10 more pages in the topic and not advance.

[Mablak]

You know, it's not draws specifically that are adding fun. It's the game being longer, getting more turns. Why not just play a given match as best of 3? Or even best of 5? You can pretty much choose the length of the game if it feels too short for you.

[Flori]

Its not the same feeling at all playing 3 rr when there was a draw on the 2 1st game and when u just play 3 different games not connected.
Sure i prefer to play 3 games than 1, i like a lot more playing 1 game after 2 draws.
But you got a nice idea i'll ask all fans of rr to do bo3/5 in tus/trl. :d

[Statik]

Can I make another senseless comparison? In t17 when both last worms plop, they don't do it synchronously. So the winner should be the last one who plops Because another 40min game is *****!!

[MonkeyIsland]

I think Random DID brought up a good point by head-hitting, when the timer goes off by worm hitting his head before finish, that is not the worm physical-reality-true time, is it? If we're about to check replays to find the exact time, shouldn't we also check the exact time when the worm touches finish not when the turn ended by head hitting? I'm trying to say that the real time of turn time is still our definition of it. Our definition could be whole seconds or hundredth of seconds. I was in favor of hundredth of seconds till Random brought up head-hitting.

Anyway I think we're going in circles. In my point of view, if a rule is gonna be set, it should be summed up to this:
Before the game, agree on the definition of the best time: going by whole seconds or hundredth of seconds. (or counting the exact time worm touches finish despite of what timer says)

[Impossible]

@MI
Worms races isnt really races since it is turn-based. I mean physical finish would have a meaning if it would be real time.  But worms races based on times of run. So those head-hitting is just such a part of run, that asks some skill for that. I explained that shitty, but I hope you undestand what I mean xD

[Mablak]

I think Random DID brought up a good point by head-hitting, when the timer goes off by worm hitting his head before finish, that is not the worm physical-reality-true time, is it? If we're about to check replays to find the exact time, shouldn't we also check the exact time when the worm touches finish not when the turn ended by head hitting? I'm trying to say that the real time of turn time is still our definition of it. Our definition could be whole seconds or hundredth of seconds. I was in favor of hundredth of seconds till Random brought up head-hitting.

Anyway I think we're going in circles. In my point of view, if a rule is gonna be set, it should be summed up to this:
Before the game, agree on the definition of the best time: going by whole seconds or hundredth of seconds. (or counting the exact time worm touches finish despite of what timer says)

I'd be fine with or without head hitting. But it adds a small bit of skill to the game in almost all situations, people have to know how to control their worm well to pull it off. It often involves taking a moderate risk for little gain, and it allows for interesting comebacks on occasion. In contrast, judging by whole seconds reduces skill in all situations, or rather, causes us to judge skill incorrectly.

Your version of the rule has a problem MI, people are lazy. They often don't even specify what will count as hitting the finish, at the start of the game. I mean, you have to have a standard means of measurement in case they don't specify anything, or in case they disagree. I'd be fine with this, if the standard is exact times.

[Cueshark]

Can I make another senseless comparison? In t17 when both last worms plop, they don't do it synchronously. So the winner should be the last one who plops Because another 40min game is *****!!

Hah, cool and I see what you're saying.  Except because worms is a turn based game, this idea kind of treats worms like a real time game.  But nice thinking.

[Aerox]

when does a worm touch something? when there is virtual contact? ergo, hitbox vs hitbox, or when there is visual contact (worm has visual "mass" that goes through hitboxes)?