i'm wondering why you're able to pick this scheme in tus classic. in my opinion it has nothing lost next to ttrr, elite and so on. why? cos it's the most frustrating scheme actually. at some point this scheme needs some skills, of course, but so less that i consider this scheme as pretty lucky and nonsense. no matter what you do, with the turn advantage pretty much every game ends up both having 1 worm. my enemys always darkside on the bottom left or right and this kills my motivation instantly. 2 days ago i played this scheme vs spw. with that darksiding that f@#!ing game ended up playing it like 50 minutes. and that just for a draw. what the hell? i couldn't be arsed for a 2nd game, nor for a rm. and i'm thinking about just giving free wins if enemys pick this.. better not to waste time and if you only lose in this scheme, theres at some point not so much points to lose for you. it's better than winning every now and then u know. i mean not even bng with nubs takes that long. this scheme makes just no sense to me really :):P only goin to tipe BCC xD
You can let the timer run out each turn. Round time is only 10 sec, it'll be SD soon.
But yeah, it's kinda bad in most games the lamest player wins.. or at least, you get shot down if you don't darkside yourself. If you hide on the top from the start it's gonna be one hell of a fight to stay your ground.
i wouldnt say the lamest player wins. usually the player with the better/luckiest touch on the final shot wins.
You cant call the darksiding "lame" though, its done through necessity because the scheme is just plain bad, poorly thought out.
You dont call people lame in elite for not hiding somewhere where they can lose the game if hit on the next turn, so dont call them lame for doing the same in any other scheme.
Scheme could be fixed still, its popular too, and it is also one of the most frequently played schemes on TUS so it does deserve to be here, however it MUST be FIXED!
Launch a THL (TUS Hysteria League) for those who will always love hysteria even after reading my post. Current TRL season proves it would be active enough.
- Replace TUS Classic Hysteria with another default scheme which can actually be played competitively (aerial? inter?).
AERIAL
Hysteria is rather a new scheme for me. I don't think it had already been in existence at the point when I left worms in 2007. Yet, I think I've already played it enough to be able to share my opinion.
Hysteria surely requires some abilities, but the skill cap is rather low. There's simply not much you can do during a single second of turn time. Another thing is that hysteria is one of the schemes which don't really benefit a lot from being played competitively. I think it has always been meant to be played for fun. During funners, you can allow yourself to try all the crazy moves you would never attempt in a league game. But once again, such craziness doesn't prove efficient in serious games and it always ends up with both sides doing the same old plain boring moves in every game.
Statik is right, forcing Sudden Death is surely a viable option is you want quick matches, but it narrows all the required skill down to shooting accuracy. We already have a scheme for that, don't we? It's called BnG if I remember correctly.
I do think the classic league schemeset should be fixed.
Here's my advice:
- Replace TUS Classic Hysteria with another default scheme which can actually be played competitively (aerial? inter?).
- Launch a THL (TUS Hysteria League). Current TRL season proves it would be active enough.
- Replace TUS Classic Hysteria with another default scheme which can actually be played competitively (aerial? inter?).
- Launch a THL (TUS Hysteria League) for those who will always love hysteria even after reading my post. Current TRL season proves it would be active enough.
which isn't really competitive
You cant call the darksiding "lame" though, its done through necessity because the scheme is just plain bad, poorly thought out.
That's pretty harsh. It's hard to make schemes that are perfectly balanced out of the blue. It needs to be tried and tested. There was never a real problem when hyst was new and players weren't fully drilled into its 'tactics'.
BnG would become outdated too when enough players know how to notch and hit with nades 99.9% of the turns.
You dont call people lame in elite for not hiding somewhere where they can lose the game if hit on the next turn, so dont call them lame for doing the same in any other scheme.
The boundary is pretty vague, between lame and darksiding. A guy hiding on top in a roper when he's leading is kinda lame too.
Scheme could be fixed still, its popular too, and it is also one of the most frequently played schemes on TUS so it does deserve to be here, however it MUST be FIXED!
Any ideas?
i wouldnt say the lamest player wins. usually the player with the better/luckiest touch on the final shot wins.
- Replace TUS Classic Hysteria with another default scheme which can actually be played competitively (aerial? inter?).
I would like to see rope added to hyst. Rope drops would be cool, you could also drop a weapon, then rope and pile/knock a worm at the end of your turn. Id like to see other weapons added to hyst for more dynamism, moles, a homing missle, some strikes, why not? This is all fine, but it doesnt solve the last worm darksiding madness, which to be honest is the only real problem with hyst. I enjoy hyst games up until the last worms, then it just becomes frustrating and boring as most of us know. Aside from reducing SD induction time (which seems to be the best way of resolving the problem), adding a delayed aqua/super sheep would also help in combatting stale mate scenarios, as would delayed mole strikes. This aside, reducing the SD countdown timer so fewer turns need to be skipped in order to bring on the water rise seems to be the most logical way of "improving" the scheme without changing it too dramatically, not that a dramatic change would be a bad thing!
Why is it most of the people who don't like Hysteria are mostly players who have been playing WA longer than those who do like it?+1
As you see, Hysteria is the most played scheme in 3.5 years.
Another hysteria criticism by another player who has been here longer than others :)Why is it most of the people who don't like Hysteria are mostly players who have been playing WA longer than those who do like it?+1
We (wormers) all have different opinion about every scheme. Many of you call Hysteria flawed...
As you see, Hysteria is the most played scheme in 3.5 years.
Action takes place all over the map, games are close and you need skills at all sorts of things: BnG'ing, JP'ing, darksiding/girdering, piling and good strategy. It's a more complete scheme than any of the current classic ones. Even more than Elite maybe.
Those of us who call hysteria broken are right, all others are wrong. That's just my (correct) opinion. :)
Justin Bieber is by far the most viewed person on YouTube. You we're saying...?
How many more negative opinions about Hysteria in TUS Classic by renowned players do you need to get it out of that league? I wonder. :D
No one said the opposite, in fact that's what we ALL say, that newbies, who are (naturally) way more in number than the more experienced/better players, play hysteria since its a scheme of chance, more so than others
@Aerial,
Way too soon to get added to Classic league. I'll add it to Free league.
I do have a problem with many Hysteria fans (like Almog) that doesn't post in such threads. Anti-Hysterians post and post and make it like the entire community dislikes Hysteria. Then when I do change it, the other side comes out whinning.
hide on top is gay.that's the point
i generally dont hide on top.
and bng is gay
How many more negative opinions about Hysteria in TUS Classic by renowned players do you need to get it out of that league? I wonder. :D
a small group of people legitimated with a big name should rule over the majority of people? i thought we removed this form of leadership not that long ago for good reasons.
Hysteria surely requires some abilities, but the skill cap is rather low. There's simply not much you can do during a single second of turn time. Another thing is that hysteria is one of the schemes which don't really benefit a lot from being played competitively. I think it has always been meant to be played for fun. During funners, you can allow yourself to try all the crazy moves you would never attempt in a league game. But once again, such craziness doesn't prove efficient in serious games and it always ends up with both sides doing the same old plain boring moves in every game.
Justin Bieber is by far the most viewed person on YouTube. You we're saying...?
Justin Bieber is by far the most viewed person on YouTube. You we're saying...?
People don't pick Bieber for gaining points tho. ;) Seriously, that statistic doesn't really say much. Only someone who doesn't want to progress in the standings picks his favourite schemes.
If I were a player who didn't trust my chances against X player I'd pick hysteria, because the gamble is better than the loss.
(https://www.tus-wa.com/images/information/seasons_info.jpg)As you see, Hysteria is the most played scheme in 3.5 years.
Justin Bieber is by far the most viewed person on YouTube. You we're saying...?
People don't pick Bieber for gaining points tho. ;) Seriously, that statistic doesn't really say much. Only someone who doesn't want to progress in the standings picks his favourite schemes.
It's funny you mention this.
If I were a player who didn't trust my chances against X player I'd pick hysteria, because the gamble is better than the loss. Do you really consider this to be something other than awful for a scheme? When Shopper was introduced as a competitive scheme by FB many noob clans picked it against the good players, try and take advantage of the bigger amount of games played in said scheme, it gives them the chance to compete. Same thing is happening with hysteria but to a much bigger extent. It's a gimmick scheme and as soon as everyone catches up to the gimmick of its tactics (if they haven't yet) then its clear competitive flaws will show.-
I know some of you are very good with it in leagues and you're enjoying that position, must be tough being told the scheme is not very competitive.
Oh and, MI.
You posted that impressive statistic, but did you consider that a lot of games are played because the opponent picked it so the other doesn't have a chance to avoid playing Hyst. If you are forced to play Hyst and want to be fair, you will play it nonetheless
How about every player is allowed to "dislike" 1 scheme, that still leaves a lot of pickable schemes left in my opinion. The scheme that is disliked can't be picked by the opponent.
I AM looking for a change. If I remove Hysteria from Classic league, then for sure I'll give it a separate league since I'll be removing the most active scheme.
Change is great, it dusts off leagues and breaks the boring routine. But to change, I need some good ideas. Enough with "why" it is bad.
omg :(
There's a big factor... I bet Phanton has played about 1/12 of those games xDPhanton has played 1879 hysteria games so far. This is 14.7% of all hysteria games ever played (close to 1/7).
There's a big factor... I bet Phanton has played about 1/12 of those games xDPhanton has played 1879 hysteria games so far. This is 14.7% of all hysteria games ever played (close to 1/7).
Actually this idea has been around a while now and I do like it. It is much more organized and all schemes gain the possibility of having playoffs. I remember some people didn't like it though. (like NAiL)
Actually this idea has been around a while now and I do like it. It is much more organized and all schemes gain the possibility of having playoffs. I remember some people didn't like it though. (like NAiL)
It'll be too much IMO. People will have to choose between like 8 different TUS leagues :-X
Personally, I'd stick to 3 different leagues at most. (with freeleague as 4th perhaps).
Schemes could be alternated each season.
1 TRL league for rope-based schemes: TTRR, Shopper, WxW, Roper.
1 TRL league for default schemes: Elite, T17, Hysteria, BnG
and 1 TRL of multi-schemes??
For example, season 1:
1 TRL = BnG
1 TRL = TTRR
1 TRL = T17/Hysteria/Elite (default all-round)
Season 2:
1 TRL = Hysteria
1 TRL = WxW
1 TRL = Elite/BnG/Roper (classic all-round)
Pretty sure everyone has some league they enjoy playing for then.
Downside is that the old classic league ranks will be gone (that won't be nice for people like Phanton) and for clanners the lack of all-round players will also be a bit of trouble.
I'd like to hear your ideas MI, I think you'd be able to come up with something real nice :)
Actually this idea has been around a while now and I do like it. It is much more organized and all schemes gain the possibility of having playoffs. I remember some people didn't like it though. (like NAiL)
MI, would you ever give it a shot to separate all schemes? I know this is currently more or less implemented, but each individual scheme counts towards the overall rating and the individual schemes don't have their own playoffs. Like TRL, just for every scheme. People only interested in TTRR and Roper would search opponents only for these two schemes and so on. Making highly skilled Playoffs, reducing Luck since Games could be Bo3 in every scheme.
So far, people are having a hard time finishing their TRL playoffs already. I can't imagine how things would be if there were 8 separate playoffs each season.
I don't understand why people think it's the least competitive scheme out there.
I don't understand why people think it's the least competitive scheme out there.
Flow, think to yourself what makes a good competitive scheme. When you come to the part about risk-reward, apply it to hysteria and realize how little sense 90% of the game makes, assuming equal skill level.
ropa, Hysteria is competitive, it meets the defination of the word competitive, literally, by the power invested in the English language, I am right, you are wrong.
Nothing has to be "perfect" to be competitive, nor does it need to meet the desires of the elite and well educated, well spoken in multiple languages, worms society.
It has flaws in your eyes, but in my eyes those mean extra competition and challenge, and I enjoy a long tense battle which Hysteria provides, for me Hysteria endgame is also a slight battle of patience and persistance, something which some of the most successful people have.
One mans trash is another mans treasure.
ropa, Hysteria is competitive, it meets the defination of the word competitive, literally, by the power invested in the English language, I am right, you are wrong.
Nothing has to be "perfect" to be competitive, nor does it need to meet the desires of the elite and well educated, well spoken in multiple languages, worms society.
It has flaws in your eyes, but in my eyes those mean extra competition and challenge, and I enjoy a long tense battle which Hysteria provides, for me Hysteria endgame is also a slight battle of patience and persistance, something which some of the most successful people have.
One mans trash is another mans treasure.
Aha, so in conclusion, you're saying a competition in which you get punished for succeeding is not flawed because you've grown to enjoy it, personally speaking.
I'm done with this particular argument.
you get punished for succeeding when you dont take the right steps to avoid punishment....
you act like there is no way to avoid the tele pile ropa... you act like the scheme is just first one to be killed, wins
ropa, Hysteria is competitive, it meets the defination of the word competitive, literally, by the power invested in the English language, I am right, you are wrong.
Nothing has to be "perfect" to be competitive, nor does it need to meet the desires of the elite and well educated, well spoken in multiple languages, worms society.
It has flaws in your eyes, but in my eyes those mean extra competition and challenge, and I enjoy a long tense battle which Hysteria provides, for me Hysteria endgame is also a slight battle of patience and persistance, something which some of the most successful people have.
One mans trash is another mans treasure.
Aha, so in conclusion, you're saying a competition in which you get punished for succeeding is not flawed because you've grown to enjoy it, personally speaking.
I'm done with this particular argument.
Dude, if you feel that way, you just aren't that good at the scheme, seriously, accept the fact you are terrible at this scheme and there are so many people who are better than you.
Get punished, please, if I can plop 3 worms like that I have the knowledge, experience, skill and intelligence to handle this situation, and if I fail, it's my fault, not the schemes, I knew what to do, I just done it wrong.
yeah you dont know shit dude... as i said, if u dont take the steps to defend the telepile, you will get the tele pile... thats obvious enough right???
as i have said though, there are ways to avoid it, if your not a complete dumb ass........ and if you actually played the game (im saying it again) you might know that
I'll tell you what ropa, why don't you take this chance and take action to defend yourself?
TRL just happens to be Hysteria this Season, why don't you play the rest of the season, take it seriously, try your best, and see how far you get, then come back and post how you feel.
If you don't accept this then I assume the following:
You don't like this scheme, it's just an opinion, it isn't right or wrong.
You think you already know enough about the scheme to judge it and oppose it.
If you do accept this and still feel the EXACT same way, then I assume the following:
You don't like this scheme, it's just an opinion, it isn't right or wrong, but the fact you say it is flawed, is wrong.
Whether you like the scheme or not, no matter what your opinion is, there are no flaws with this scheme, the scheme has no rules, whatever happens happens, but it happens because of what you and your opponent do in the very short time available between turns and during turns, it's so fast it's EASY to make mistakes, or not think slightly further ahead and not forsee a crucial and simple mistake...
What exactly is a flaw? It's similar to an error, it's simplest and most basic meaning being "something is wrong".
In Hysteria, nothing goes wrong, you can expect to be piled if you kill too many worms, or you can brave the challenge and go for it anyway, you make your own destiny in Hysteria, it's anything goes, what you think that means? A walk in the park? No sudden movements? Your finger could slip (honest) and lose a game cuz of it, your fault.
ropa, you may be smart enough for the people unfortunate enough to not look past the way you keep trying to change your arguement, but it doesn't work with me, why can't you just admit you are wrong for once?
Let's get back to what the original debate was, your 1st point, and the only point I care about, the only reason I got involved in this arguement, anything else doesn't interest me in the slightest.
You said Hysteria doesn't deserve to be in TuS Classic League because it isn't competitive.
Will you admit you are wrong?
But for the record, then you said it isn't competitive enough, then you started an intellectual debate over one word, when you could easily just admit you are wrong on the original point, and we can all progress with this.
ropa:
More people playing = more competition which makes it more competitive because the progressive result is more and more players becoming top players which makes it harder to win for any and all individuals, especially with this scheme as i've already said being cheat-free etc, and when they have finished the Season, not only was it the most competitive, but also the most competed.
What's with your mental gymnastics ropa?
I just don't think it's competitive because there's no risk and reward. You can make 3 amazing turns, in which you risk a lot but succeed, manage to kill 3 worms and lose only one but all the scheme does is punish you for it to the point were your opponent doesn't need to risk anything to make the game even again with a bit of cautious play (piling, darksiding). Surely you understand this and you don't need me to elaborate further into how competition assumes equal grounds to reach an equal goal, and that clearly one player deserves more for risking more (and in this example, succeeding) than the other? I mean, you might want to change the meaning of competition but in my book (and most dictionaries) this examples proves there's a flaw in the intrinsic competitiveness of said scheme.
Yes, it's more competitive if more players are good at it and more players play it.
ropa, you are the one who kept changing the subject because you lacked evidence and facts.
So basically the original thing you said that bothered me was:I just don't think it's competitive because there's no risk and reward. You can make 3 amazing turns, in which you risk a lot but succeed, manage to kill 3 worms and lose only one but all the scheme does is punish you for it to the point were your opponent doesn't need to risk anything to make the game even again with a bit of cautious play (piling, darksiding). Surely you understand this and you don't need me to elaborate further into how competition assumes equal grounds to reach an equal goal, and that clearly one player deserves more for risking more (and in this example, succeeding) than the other? I mean, you might want to change the meaning of competition but in my book (and most dictionaries) this examples proves there's a flaw in the intrinsic competitiveness of said scheme.
And now you just said:Yes, it's more competitive if more players are good at it and more players play it.
Thats all I needed to know, because your opinion of what is good competition is irrelevant to overall competiveness being a sucess, and Hysteria is a success, the most sucessful competitive scheme on TuS, fact.
Thanks.
Can you use pm's guys, nobody cares
More people playing = more competition which makes it more competitive because the progressive result is more and more players becoming top players which makes it harder to win for any and all individuals, especially with this scheme as i've already said being cheat-free etc, and when they have finished the Season, not only was it the most competitive, but also the most competed.
While that may be true,
it has to be assessed in relation to other established league schemes for it to constitute an actual argument.
What about some kind of limit for picking each scheme. Like u need to pick something else when u ve picked same scheme too many times. but i vote for removing hyst!
What about some kind of limit for picking each scheme. Like u need to pick something else when u ve picked same scheme too many times. but i vote for removing hyst!
no, no and no removing hyst :(
maybe...What about some kind of limit for picking each scheme. Like u need to pick something else when u ve picked same scheme too many times. but i vote for removing hyst!
no, no and no removing hyst :(
Hey Pt,
trl?
I'm sure they won't remove the most famous scheme. I love hysteria too and think it fits perfect in classic. It could get an own league (THL?) beside classic too, like TEL. There are much more people who like hysteria than people who not like it. Hysteria is one of the fastest schemes and easy to play even if you r not warm you can have some easy fun (but probably lose if u not hit enough). + Hysteria is so good because it is quite cheat- and luckfree which means pros would beat not so good players almost every game.
why should be killing a worm early rewarded in hysteria? if you kill a worm the other player has turnadvantage in elite, wxw and shopper as well. so handling this situation is part of a lot more schemes.
you dont want worm rotation in this schemes, why you want it in hysteria?
I will paste here what I said in another thread about hysteria:
(...)
why should be killing a worm early rewarded in hysteria? if you kill a worm the other player has turnadvantage in elite, wxw and shopper as well. so handling this situation is part of a lot more schemes.I know you can make examples of these two things happening in hysteria, but we have to draw the line somewhere, because whilst you're right that piling (telecow is an awful term) exists in other schemes, do you think it has the same "cheap" impact in all of them?
you dont want worm rotation in this schemes, why you want it in hysteria?
changing basic parts would make hysteria to an very cheap version of bng, without the possiblity of notching.
sure, the word competitive can mean what you've said, komo, but competitive has multiple definitions, and ropa was clearly using it in the sense of risk, reward, advantage, etc, and you have not proven that hysteria qualifies as competitive under that standard. The statistics make it clear that many people played hysteria in the league... how does this in any way tell us about the intricate details of the scheme, the tactics, the logic of the game? Those intricate details, the tactics, and logic of the scheme are what ropa was using when saying competitive... pretty clearly... If you really went through all of the trouble to argue with ropa about an alternate word definition, one he clearly wasn't referring to, then that is just sad.. you wasted a lot of space on this thread
ShyGuy, ropa said Hysteria isn't competitive, I said he was wrong, I was right...
sure, the word competitive can mean what you've said, komo, but competitive has multiple definitions
Then it was nino's monobrow...
I didn't bother reading anthing past the first few posts, but I have an easy solution to this Hysteria hysteria...
Yeah, bad news, already suggested, already established as not ideal.I was willing to take a chance with putting forth my suggestion and not read this derailed conversation. Consider your own words and read how recent it was that this topic had surfaced already, numerous times. I know this has been pointed out to you.
So I'm afraid you don't have an easy solution, all you've got is a patronizing post that proves that reading before suggesting is the way to go.
Yeah, bad news, already suggested, already established as not ideal.I was willing to take a chance with putting forth my suggestion and not read this derailed conversation. Consider your own words and read how recent it was that this topic had surfaced already, numerous times. I know this has been pointed out to you.
So I'm afraid you don't have an easy solution, all you've got is a patronizing post that proves that reading before suggesting is the way to go.