The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
All About TUS => TUS Discussion => Topic started by: TOMT on April 29, 2013, 03:13 AM
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I did some private investigation! 80% of players use multiple spaces,in that I mean MULTIPLE space buttons, that they can press at the same time, so theres no delay between your 2 fingers when tapping! With some sneaky tactics I found this out. I don't know about ANY schemes this actually improves your skill in, so why not make it legal on TUS? It really grinds my gears to watch players use it, when I actually spent some times learning to rope the "real" way, and the reason for that is only that it's considered cheating here on TUS, and TUS is the official platform for playing WA games. If it was ok to use this kind of software I wouldn't care, and noone else could say anything about it... Maybe I'd even start to use those programs and improve my roping more, as then it wouldnt be "unfair". Seriously though
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i dont understand... if you dont know any schemes that it improves your skill in, why do you want to use it??
TOMT, if you have some method to detect this shit, you should let us know, start giving evidence of those who use it...
be active to prevent it, not support it.
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I did some private investigation! 80% of players use multiple spaces
80% of freestyle ropers? Probably. Freestlye roping communities are most concerned about the cool stuff they can do on rope. Unfortunately this has made them use programs like xSpeed and key remappers. Maybe the intentions were pure at first but it turned out as a bad habbit. For example xSpeed was probably used as something to help freestylers to see more possibilities, but it turned out as a cheating source.
TUS competitions are about having skills, that's why we care how a player manages to pull something off.
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TOMT, if you have some method to detect this shit, you should let us know, start giving evidence of those who use it...
If I knew how to decode a replay I'd be able to, for example see a minimum time delay between keys pressed repeated many times from a player which would surely be the same many times but I'm not able to :( (I'm pretty sure some people on here can do that) what do you mean I support it, I just want it to be fair, I'm also pretty sure many of the "cheaters" don't even know they are breaking the rules(could be because of language/not reading on forums etc.), so IMO there are 3 ways, either make sure everyone are aware of this(impossible, just my opinion), someone decode replays when people submit new replays, or the 3rd way(best way IMO) - remove rules considering this! :)
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Who cares? :/
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https://www.tus-wa.com/files/file-405/ (https://www.tus-wa.com/files/file-405/)
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(https://i.imgur.com/qDQeQMf.png)
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ofc not, its just simply remapper, nothin more.
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80% of freestyle ropers? Probably. Freestlye roping communities are most concerned about the cool stuff they can do on rope. Unfortunately this has made them use programs like xSpeed and key remappers.
Lol. Numbers out of a hat.
For your information Xspeed began being a problem in TTRR challenges. And stopped being one shortly after it was proven to be detectable without error.
Key remappers have always been used to avoid keylocks, and are still generally used for that only reason.
Now, there's only two options. Sit here crying about being able to compete on a rope because others have unfair advantages, or actually get on roping until you can get good to compete on a rope.
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(https://i.imgur.com/qDQeQMf.png)
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We never banned AHK program, but a certain behavior of scripts. Although the name of that topic is misleading, the first post clears the confusion.
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(https://i.imgur.com/qDQeQMf.png)
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Normal remap.
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Don't have AHK program here. If you press space/key and hold it, no other spaces/keys should work unless you release the first space first.
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(https://i.imgur.com/qDQeQMf.png)
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Lol me too, I don't even use fr or fingerroll or 100 spacebars or a £10,000 keyboard, 1 finger, 1 button, kb under £5 lol. :)
I do use left control as space though ! But surely that's fair :)
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Cool story bro
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80% of freestyle ropers? Probably. Freestlye roping communities are most concerned about the cool stuff they can do on rope. Unfortunately this has made them use programs like xSpeed and key remappers.
Lol. Numbers out of a hat.
For your information Xspeed began being a problem in TTRR challenges. And stopped being one shortly after it was proven to be detectable without error.
Key remappers have always been used to avoid keylocks, and are still generally used for that only reason.
Now, there's only two options. Sit here crying about being able to compete on a rope because others have unfair advantages, or actually get on roping until you can get good to compete on a rope.
Not sure if you meant me or MI, but I'm not sitting and crying, just asking questions...
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dont worry TOMT, ropa does not even know what hes talking about in this topic...
hes just an oldschool guy, who still feels the need to be accepted.
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Cool story bro
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Berria's ahk script is considered a cheat, you can register another space tap without letting go of the second key. It's not 'a simple remapper', Berria, AHK used like this changes the behaviour of the game. Here is the script used:
#IfWinActive ahk_class Worms2D
~PgDn::Suspend, On
~PgUp::Suspend, off
Capslock::F8
a::Space
s::Space
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this is the exact reason why I will not ever release the updated wkKeyRemap. if such ridiculous "rules" didn't exist, there would be no problem. now we have to write platinum crutches to the already working code in order to satisfy your "needs", which is something beyond the initial inspiration for the module creation (in order to block a key, there have to be more deep researches done, and that isn't possible because Kawoosh simply won't want to look into it). note that wkKeyRemap uses native W:A's keyboard code, without anything external, which is why it only works during the gameplay without affecting chat, and doesn't depend on anything besides W:A. in fact, if WA ever had a built-in remapper, it would be internally 80% similar to the one implemented in wkKeyRemap.
if out of sudden there pops up a desire to keep the module's development, then the module will be released and everyone will be happy, otherwise no, no way. or, you can actually make your own... the keyboard functions in W:A aren't as hard, an average reverse engineer will be able to manipulate them to his will.
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come on ..... its just remaped "a" and "s" key to space , and caps lock as F8.
if this is cheat just gimme other simply program for key remap coz all which i tryed didnt worked well.
And explain ofcorse what is wrong with it... and plz someone who is competentive write post and to judge it.
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We already had a debate about AHK, remeber when everyone was crying about zippo and sm0k taps?
They were using that script in blatant way, playing in that way makes you 2 advantages:
More roping safe/accuracy and more speed.
https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/announcements/using-autohotkey-is-considered-as-a-cheat-9118/
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berria, remapping your keys, and using 2 keys for space is fine...
but what that program does, is allows you to press your other space key, while another is still held down... it defies the true mechanics of the game how it was meant to be...
anyone with half a brain should understand that, not sure why steps is making light of it.. for such a smart guy, hes being pretty dumb atm :D
berria, the program i use for remapp is intes keychange..
ps: let the flames begin ;D
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Berria's ahk script is considered a cheat, you can register another space tap without letting go of the second key. It's not 'a simple remapper', Berria, AHK used like this changes the behaviour of the game. Here is the script used:
#IfWinActive ahk_class Worms2D
~PgDn::Suspend, On
~PgUp::Suspend, off
Capslock::F8
a::Space
s::Space
Not its not.
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Some people here don't understand what they are talking about... Did they even try Berria's script? It doesn't allow to press 2nd space if the first one is being held.
Some time ago Kaleu posted (or maybe some1 else) another script, it was more complicated, and it was banned and deleted from tus. Maybe some1 still use it, you will never know, like you will never know who make special marks on his screen to pwn in bng...
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Avi u are wrong, this is simply remaper and then easiest script writed to do it. It doesnt make any better roping or something.
just posted it for ppl who are searching program for key remaping which is easy to use.
AHK its program which can be use wrong ofc, but u need to write f@#!in long script and u need to know something about programming propablly.
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Just f@#!ing let everyone use the damn thing, then EVERYONE has an equal chance !!! Who gives a flying f@#! if some people think it's cheating, just make it legal, and everyone can do it, and plus, roping would look better, people would BE better, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.
It's like people holding back science(and hence the progress of mankind) because of religious beliefs, it's f@#!ing retarded...
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Just f@#!ing let everyone use the damn thing, then EVERYONE has an equal chance !!! Who gives a flying f@#! if some people think it's cheating, just make it legal, and everyone can do it, and plus, roping would look better, people would BE better, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.
It's like people holding back science(and hence the progress of mankind) because of religious beliefs, it's f@#!ing retarded...
Aaand here we go xD
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Seriously? What is it with you clowns?? I am NOT the ONLY person to speak his mind in these forums, there are MANY others, stop singling me out for no valid reason get a f@#!ing life lol, or at least an opinion of your own.
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Some people here don't understand what they are talking about... Did they even try Berria's script? It doesn't allow to press 2nd space if the first one is being held.
Some time ago Kaleu posted (or maybe some1 else) another script, it was more complicated, and it was banned and deleted from tus. Maybe some1 still use it, you will never know, like you will never know who make special marks on his screen to pwn in bng...
Open notepad (too see that you can register additional tap without letting go off the key) or just tap the AHK icon to see the lines executed. I don't know what changed, but it doesn't seem to be working in worms anymore. Maybe it's the worms version, maybe it's the AHK, but it used to work on a vanilla script, not a fancy one too. It used to work EXACTLY like steps's wk module.
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Just f@#!ing let everyone use the damn thing, then EVERYONE has an equal chance !!! Who gives a flying f@#! if some people think it's cheating, just make it legal, and everyone can do it, and plus, roping would look better, people would BE better, that's a good thing, not a bad thing.
It's like people holding back science(and hence the progress of mankind) because of religious beliefs, it's f@#!ing retarded...
That's fine but opens up a can of worms (aha!) as to what is allowed and not allowed going forward.
We would again get to the point where we have a nasty xspeed scenario where people test the limits of what we consider legit.
Also, the way in which people are "better" is bad because the tool assists and takes away the purity/skill of the player.
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Good point Ryan, I honestly think the "ahk" being able to tap when you already have spacebar pressed, is fair, the player still needs incredible hand-eye coordination & an extreme passion for being as good as they can possibly be !
However, Xspeed, is pretty lame, that's the thing that slows it down or something right?
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Yeah, xspeed allows you to play the game in slow motion. As you can imagine it makes it far easier for you to rope because you have far more time to achieve perfect timing for any rope moves.
The problem with AHK is that it takes remapping to a further level.
Whilst a remapper is a substitute for, say key lock, by simply swapping keys, ahk takes it to a new level by allowing you to not worry about releasing space to tap again which takes away the co-ordination of your fingers. Takes away from the skill of finger rolling.
It is a small step, but it is a step.
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berria, if all your program does is remap, then sorry... i was just basing what i said off van being so confident that it was a cheat
simply remapping your keys is not cheating.
remapping your keys, and changing the original mechanics of the games, is.
but.... komo says it should be legal, lets all hear what he has to say some more.
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As far as I am concerned avi, if everyone is allowed to use it, the playing field is level, so whoopdee doo - it makes the impossible possible, I personally would find ropers/ttrr etc more fun/interesting to both play & watch.
It'll never happen, least I don't think, but I still think it'd be nice lol, surely i'm allowed to dream :D
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am roping normally on it just like with one space, diffrence is only for me then there are 2 tiny keys insted of long and not correct spacebar,
i can find another remaper if its needed, so i rly dont care.
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Everyone doesn't fr.
Not everyone would have the information about this.
If we would start allowing programs/scripts to change the original mechanics, where do you draw the line because in your opinion if it makes the game "look cooler" its ok.
I like ur enthusiasm Komo, but you should also learn to think about things from multiple angles and not justify all ridicilous statements just because "its your opinion"
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Indeed Free, and your 2nd sentence is the killer for me lol.
I'd just like to see people like Mablak/Anubis/OrangE/Franz etc do warmers with this 2 spaces at once thing lol. I'd probably be useless at it myself tbh.
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But then everyone would need to learn fingerroll and rope on at least 2 spaces because you can't benefit from that otherwise I think. I don't even know if franz can fingerroll tbh.
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Why stop at two spacebars? We each have at least 8 usable fingers that could be employed to "fingerroll" on a spacebar of their own. Someone make a script that remaps all four arrow keys to space too! We won't even need carefully crafted roping maps anymore, just a ceiling to tap into and a taps per second counter. It'll be like the good old WWP days all over again!
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Aw man now you are making a mockery out of Komodos proposal.
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I hope you guys don't mind I rope using gaming driving wheel :-[.
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Why not define an area of the keyboard, a square if you will, turn all keys into spaces. Then we can hit keyboard with all our fingers or even palm of our hand. You know like playing tumba. Won't that be awesome? If people see us roping, they would see us hitting our keyboard like tomba. I think that brings a great deal of activity. Also CyberShadow could code some music notes for each hit, so that we could actually make some music too!
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Why not define an area of the keyboard, a square if you will, turn all keys into spaces. Then we can hit keyboard with all our fingers or even palm of our hand. You know like playing tumba. Won't that be awesome? If people see us roping, they would see us hitting our keyboard like tomba. I think that brings a great deal of activity. Also CyberShadow could code some music notes for each hit, so that we could actually make some music too!
I would suggest using the Numpad area, it's a good size for every palm I think, it looks like it was designed by the keyboard manufacturers to be used like that imo.
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Why stop at two spacebars? We each have at least 8 usable fingers that could be employed to "fingerroll" on a spacebar of their own. Someone make a script that remaps all four arrow keys to space too! We won't even need carefully crafted roping maps anymore, just a ceiling to tap into and a taps per second counter. It'll be like the good old WWP days all over again!
That's the point I was making about skill being taken out of the game.
It is all well and good having the opportunity to raise the standard but the reality is we are in a competitive world playing a game we have played for years to showcase our skills.
Allowing "assists" would completely ruin it!
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Lol, funny, but you still need skill and good timing, obviously, dunno why u guys being so dumb but whatever lol.
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Lol, funny, but you still need skill and good timing, obviously, dunno why u guys being so dumb but whatever lol.
Excuse me, dumb?
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komo... whos being dumb?? they are all making jokes because someone was being dumb, your right there ;)
komo your logic is, lets allow this cheat, because it make the impossible, possible, and roping will be even better, and amaze me!! think of the possibilities... lol
you dont think thats dumb??
with that logic, lets all use x-speed and rope around like goddess's
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You could at least maybe do some xspeed tournaments or something, I just think it'd be f@#!ing interesting as a change to the normal boring shit i've seen for almost 14 f@#!ing years, think outside the box dumbass lol.
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xSpeed tournament would be awful, might as well ask Deadcode to warm on a map, will look better than any xSpeed user could ever dream of.
We can make a Tap tournament and mindless tap against the ceiling or wall and find out who has the fastest fingerroll on WN!
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(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/04/porsche-gaming-wheel.jpg)
Accelerator - shorten rope (up arrow)
Break - exten rope (down arrow)
Wheel - left and right arrow, I guess thats obvious
Space is tricky, you press horn button on the wheel, but 1st gear gives one tap, 2nd gear 2 taps and so on.
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Bonhert can we FR on that? If not, that's a deal breaker for me :(
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Lol, funny, but you still need skill and good timing, obviously, dunno why u guys being so dumb but whatever lol.
The thing is, you need less skill and less good timing if you allow script like that.
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The thing is, you need less skill and less good timing if you allow script like that.
I disagree, but whatever lol. More important things to worry about :)
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The thing is, you need less skill and less good timing if you allow script like that.
I disagree, but whatever lol. More important things to worry about :)
You cannot disagree with that and not be singled out in the process. Stop being so stupid. It's not a hard task to achieve. You probably just have to post less to reach said goal but then again, win-win situation for everyone.
You come here and disagree with 1+1 it's never gonna work. You take it a step further and ignore the fact that everyone with an obvious insight on the matter is basically saying the opposite of what you're saying.
There have been many very clever people who have managed to against the masses and have achieved great things in history. You are not one of those people. You will never be one of those people. When you find yourself arguing with several people, it's never going to end with you suddenly showing them the light, it will always end with more people seeing your ineptitude with words, arguments, common sense and looking and understanding.
Logic is not an intrinsic skill to one's mind. It can be learned. But you weren't attending classes, and now you find yourself unable to comprehend how a script that allows you to press a space on top of another and have both inputs register relieves much of the skill needed for the rope timing amongst many other things.
I can live with you having no common sense, but please, when you see anubis, ryan, free etc telling you you're wrong, it's best to assume you are even if you don't have the CPU to realize you are.
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ropa, I can disagree, I just did.
It depends how you look at it, your mind, and theirs, is based on "how WA is meant to be", whereas I don't care "what WA is meant to be", my vision is simply to see the best roping possible, so therefore, I disagree.
It's pretty amusing to see you wasting your time again though, thanks for that :)
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it's not about what WA is meant to be.
It's about timing.
We're not discussing abstract ideas here, we're talking about specific mechanical logic regarding input. Does driving a car relieve the exercise load to go from A to B? Of course it does. And disagreeing with it makes you look like an idiot, I know that's nothing new, but stop being so amused in the process.
It's not something you can disagree with based on Komo bullshit. It's like disagreeing with 1+1=2 because you don't take maths seriously.
It's the same kind of borderline.
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Well you talk about that if you want, your point is irrelevant to me wanting to see the best roping possible ;D
Either way, you still need fast hands, good hand-eye coordination and experience, I still disagree, because even with this pressing space while space still active thing, you still need to have good timing to do it the best way possible.
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Bonhert can we FR on that? If not, that's a deal breaker for me :(
Only finger-troll ;).
That's how I call the technique described above.
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Well you talk about that if you want, your point is irrelevant to me wanting to see the best roping possible ;D
Either way, you still need fast hands, good hand-eye coordination and experience, I still disagree, because even with this pressing space while space still active thing, you still need to have good timing to do it the best way possible.
You need less faster fingers, less hand-eye coord and less experience with this script compared to fr. I've tried the script actually, I'm not just making assumptions.
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Free, the faster you can tap, the faster you can do it, the better hand eye coordination you have, the better tricks etc you can do, the more experience you have, especially in ropers/ttrr you can move around easier.
You are still not getting the point.
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komo, you really need to learn how to just bow out gracefully at times...
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Free, the faster you can tap, the faster you can do it, the better hand eye coordination you have, the better tricks etc you can do, the more experience you have, especially in ropers/ttrr you can move around easier.
You are still not getting the point.
Your absolutely right on that, I have no clue what ur trying to say.
If this is your "reasoning" could you then also clarify why not just allow xspeed also? You also pull nicer roping with that.
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@up and discussion:
Totaly no reason for not allowing xspeed with this logic. Moreover it should be not only allowed but even required :-*.
Edit: Ah yes, for clarifying: </sarcasm>
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If you want to see the best possible roping, like I said PM Deadcode or watch the numerous available replays.
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If you want to see the best possible roping, like I said PM Deadcode or watch the numerous available replays.
That isn't human though, sorry I will clarify and say "best possible roping from a human". As a sidenote, that shit is awesome, I love it ! If people could rope like this - YEEEHAAA !
Your absolutely right on that, I have no clue what ur trying to say.
If this is your "reasoning" could you then also clarify why not just allow xspeed also? You also pull nicer roping with that.
Basically, people are saying it requires less skill, less timing etc, and I disagree, too many of you are looking at this as if the standard of roping would the same, but obviously with this script, the bar will be raised, so the top players will have to try just as hard. I don't get why people can't understand this...
To me it's a huge difference from slowing down the game speed by 1/2 (is that right?) & taking away the spacebar limit.
To "see the best roping possible" you are right, but Anubis is even more right lol, I can't argue with that, but I do think there is a difference in FR with this script and the game actually being half the speed so you don't even need to have fast fingers or good hand-eye coordination & as much practise to do all the complex moves, like, perfect shadows, mexis, arches, pumps, outlaws, inlaws etc...
Watching Xspeed in realtime yeah fair enough, but playing the game that slow, well, that's kinda boring for me... But your point still stands I guess.
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We are not saying that the standard of the roping goes down.
We are saying you have to do less -> it's easier -> less skill
AHK is like playing a driving game with assists
Xspeed is like playing a driving game with a faster car
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Ryan, you ONLY have to do less if you plan on roping the exact same way you have before this script, this ADDS possibilities, it doesn't take them away, it makes it just the same, if not make it even harder to be the best... Think about it carefully please?
If no one understands this by now, well, they never will... I've said it the best it can be said really...
It was only a general "thought" anyway, not something I actually desperately want done, afaik, it has 0.01% of ever happening.
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komo, with your reasoning a program that would you allow to play the game frame by frame should be legal as long as the player is giving all the key input. But I'm pretty sure that with some practice you could achieve a roping level pretty close to Deadcodes replays...
so where do you wanna draw the line between legal and illegal?
I think the line has to be drawn right here at this point as many others already stated.
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Roping does NOT have infinite possibilities.
Take shadow, it needs 3 space shots in correct time, depending on your rope length. Many times people fail to do it and they miss a turn. (e.g. in roper) Your space may get stuck, your fingers may not react in time, etc etc. the AHK script which we are against, makes this timing much easier. Because now the second space is automatically releasing the first one. That is the place where the script is doing a part that were supposed to be done by your skill/timing.
Now if I'm playing Roper with someone who is using AHK, there's a chance I fail that shadow. Is this chance equal for my opponent too? no. A script is reducing that chance.
The point is where to draw that line. So if my opponent is using such easing script, why not I make a macro for my shadows? Why not make a double-tap macro as well?
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i always thought worms is 1 of the games where everyone has same chances coz there are NO cheats, actually i see how wrong i was, i played a lot with "good" players who lagged much in their turns (i will not say here nicks) and i thouught it was their connection problem, now i see they just used poor xspeed, why ppl must cheat even in game like worms, it is sad.. I understand if someone will simply remap (as I remap my f8 to 0) but using double spaces etc really sux imo, if u fall or smt u say "omg f@#!ing space" yes u say space u dont say omg f@#!ing x z etc.. space was made for tapping not othery keys, even if it sux as mine xd
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I made a macro for jp lg zooka in hyst :D:D:D:D
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komo, with your reasoning a program that would you allow to play the game frame by frame should be legal as long as the player is giving all the key input.
That isn't my reasoning though, i've already said slowing the the physical appearance of the game is completely different to letting multiple spacebars be hit at the same time, on top of that, playing frame by frame, that's just boring really...
so where do you wanna draw the line between legal and illegal?
You can't make everyone happy, this just comes down to opinion I guess, each to their own lol.
Roping does NOT have infinite possibilities.
Take shadow, it needs 3 space shots in correct time, depending on your rope length. Many times people fail to do it and they miss a turn. (e.g. in roper) Your space may get stuck, your fingers may not react in time, etc etc. the AHK script which we are against, makes this timing much easier. Because now the second space is automatically releasing the first one. That is the place where the script is doing a part that were supposed to be done by your skill/timing.
Now if I'm playing Roper with someone who is using AHK, there's a chance I fail that shadow. Is this chance equal for my opponent too? no. A script is reducing that chance.
The point is where to draw that line. So if my opponent is using such easing script, why not I make a macro for my shadows? Why not make a double-tap macro as well?
1st, I never said it had infinite possibilities...
If your spacebar doesn't work then tough luck, get better equipment or blame the idiots who made such crap equipment, that doesn't mean YOU done it wrong.
I still disagree it makes the timing any easier, playing WA at the normal speed, if you have better hand-eye coordination than your opponent, doesn't matter with or without this script, you will pull off more precise moves than them. Get it into your heads already please, this is a FACT, not an opinion.
The script doesn't reduce the chance an opponents space will fail, it could still fail, but the 2nd press would work, it just means he has a "backup", this is a good thing lol, both players can use it.
Macros are completely different, you aren't physically pressing anything(physically doing the work yourself) if you do that, I shouldn't need to explain this, so I won't, but if you want me to, I will, just ask.
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Macros are completely different, you aren't physically pressing anything(physically doing the work yourself) if you do that, I shouldn't need to explain this, so I won't, but if you want me to, I will, just ask.
Shadow:
1. Press space key.
2. Release space key
3. Press space key again.
4. Release space key
5. Press space key again.
6. Release space key.
Shadow with mentioned AHK script:
1. Press space key.
2. Release space key
3. Press second space key. (point 2 will be done for you)
4. Release space key
5. Press first space key again. (point 4 will be done for you)
6. Release space key.
Those are physical shortcuts the script will do for you.
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Ok, you make a good point there MI, I didn't really associate "letting go" with how fast you can press a button/multiple buttons. Someone with faster fingers will still be faster, if your timing is better than your opponents, you will still do it better, especially those critically time saving shadows that make your worm fall backwards, which REALLY helps in Ropers where the part to connect rope once you fall below is further inland than the part sticking out on top.
You won that little battle MI, but you still lost the war lol.
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Ok, you make a good point there MI, I didn't really associate "letting go" with how fast you can press a button
Komo, take a breath and realize it took you what, 4 pages to understand a simple concept we were natural with time ago.
You need to change your attitude completely. You need to at least understand the basics of common sense. And lose all that delusion that somewhat makes you believe you're intelligent enough to have unique theories that defy the norm. You will never be in hands of such knowledge.
If everyone disagrees with you it's not because you have a wider mind that allows you to comprehend things more openly. It's that your delusion is not balanced with your intelligence.
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xSpeed tournament would be awful, might as well ask Deadcode to warm on a map, will look better than any xSpeed user could ever dream of.
I think you're talking about replays since Deadcode's own roping level is pretty average compared to tool-assisted replays.
Shadow with mentioned AHK script:
1. Press space key.
2. Release space key
3. Press second space key. (point 2 will be done for you)
4. Release space key
5. Press first space key again. (point 4 will be done for you)
6. Release space key.
but how can you press the first space key again if it isn't released still? :o might require third space then, or an inevitable release of the first space key.
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u just press it again
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u just press it again
but then it contradicts the MI's guide. at least one "physical" key release will be required with two-spaces setup.
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steps, u press 1st spacebar, u press 2nd spacebar then u press 1st spacebar again :D:D:D::DD no need to release any space!
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but how can you press the first space key again if it isn't released still? :o might require third space then, or an inevitable release of the first space key.
Remap X and C to space.
Hold X. Press C while holding X.
That's 2 space shots.
When finger rolling at great speeds, this scripts registers all space hits whilst a normal person without perfect timing might lose a few inputs in the process because no keyboard is going to register a space on top of another unless using said script.
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steps, u press 1st spacebar, u press 2nd spacebar then u press 1st spacebar again :D:D:D::DD no need to release any space!
no, you are not right, please find your phail yourself
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Remap X and C to space.
Hold X. Press C while holding X.
That's 2 space shots.
thanks captain, but the MI's post was about three space shots.
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Remap X and C to space.
Hold X. Press C while holding X.
That's 2 space shots.
thanks captain, but the MI's post was about three space shots.
?
I quoted you because you were struggling to understand how the script would benefit a 2 space user and somehow implied it would only work with 3.
I was making it clear for you. But clearly not clear enough for you.
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ropa, you clearly don't pay attention to every word anyone says, ever, hence why you are dumbass and always will be.
Mixing up threads again buddy? The one were I talk about your qualities is that other one, this one is about KEY REMAPPING and that AHK script, a concept alien to you.
Please make a good use of the forum, after all, you could call it home.
PD: you're not trying to sound like me in that last phrase are you?
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thanks captain, but the MI's post was about three space shots.
I was trying to demonstrate the concept.
Either:
1) 3rd space: z, x, c, you can just drop your fingers in a row and press/hold those keys to make a shadow.
2) The release of the first space: your release of space this time is not the same as the natural way. It has less value since the timing we are talking about is ruined at that point.
@Komo, deleted your two last posts, you know why.
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Fair enough lol, he's beneath me anyway, not worth a proper response.
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He's above you.
Thoughts, Komo?
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My general thought Breeze, I speak my mind and don't care what people think, if I upset someone I really have respect for, I will apologize to them in private but make it clear I stand by my principles.
I will only ever spend a ridiculous amount of time preparing a case properly if it's something that matters/means alot to me and/or can change my life in an incredibly good way, I swear and curse with topics like this, because, no one really gives a f@#! in the end no matter who is right or wrong, why waste my time on something I know for a fact will NOT happen. I'd like it to be legal, but I couldn't give a rats ass if it isn't either, it's just funny to see so many people take something you said, without even understanding it, and/or taking it the wrong way, and get totally sidetracked, trying desperately to prove you wrong but they can't lol.
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I quoted you because you were struggling to understand how the script would benefit a 2 space user and somehow implied it would only work with 3.
I didn't imply anything, I was going out of the MI's post where he said that you don't release anything until the trick is done, which is false, at first you don't need to release the first space to press 2nd, but you still must physically release the 1st to press it again. if we have 3 spaces, we don't need to release anything at all, which complies with the MI's post.
I'm not implying anything but showing that the point #4 in the second part of MI's post is false.
in fact, replace the word "press" with "hold", then hold two spaces and try to press 1st space again while it's still physically held. Two fingers holding the same button? huh..
The release of the first space: your release of space this time is not the same as the natural way. It has less value since the timing we are talking about is ruined at that point.
but it's still a release, even a microscopic one, which contradicts the point #4 of your post.
tl;dr: how MI should have explained the trick:
with 2 spaces:
1. Press and hold the first space key.
2. Release space key one
3. Press and hold the first second space key.
4. Release space key one.
5. Press first space key again.
6. Release space key two.
with 3 spaces:
1. Press and hold the first space key.
2. Release space key one
3. Press and hold the first second space key.
4. Release space key two.
5. Press and hold the first third space key.
6. Release space key two.
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yes, i got it steps, im surprised ropa did not.... steps was being very literal in the sense that if you never release either space, you will never be able to continue tapping...
im sure steps understands the concept of this script, and im sure monkeyisland does as well...
there was a time ropa did not fully get it, but now its apparent that he does....
the only one left in the dark here is komo... "oh, good point monkeyisland... i did not think of that same thing every ones been saying for 5 pages straight... very good point... duhhh... but it will make roping better!! YEEEEHAWWWWW, i won the war"
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avirex, yes, MI is right, with what he said, but it wasn't even what I was originally arguing about, my initial point was against what free said something like "it takes less skill, less timing, less everything" something alone those lines, I won that debate, just no one wants to admit it lol.
All MI said was there is less "physical" action with AHK activated, it wasn't even the point I was arguing, it was just a little mistake I made while trying to make my point(because it really IS irrelevant to my overall point), but no one would notice that, cuz I doubt anyone even f@#!ing reads what I say except people like MI...
You lot just look at keywords or something and skip the important things that people say, I don't care what your reasons are for not reading what I write properly, but you only have yourselves to blame for thinking such stupid things.
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avirex, yes, MI is right, with what he said, but it wasn't even what I was originally arguing about, my initial point was against what free said something like "it takes less skill, less timing, less everything" something alone those lines, I won that debate, just no one wants to admit it lol.
Uh
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avirex, yes, MI is right, with what he said, but it wasn't even what I was originally arguing about, my initial point was against what free said something like "it takes less skill, less timing, less everything" something alone those lines, I won that debate, just no one wants to admit it lol.
Uh
Sorry it was actually Ryan that made me make my point by saying this:
Also, the way in which people are "better" is bad because the tool assists and takes away the purity/skill of the player.
And then you joined in with this Free:
Lol, funny, but you still need skill and good timing, obviously, dunno why u guys being so dumb but whatever lol.
The thing is, you need less skill and less good timing if you allow script like that.
And if you read everything I said carefully after that point, well, hopefully you get it, if not, doesn't really matter tbh... For some reason I thought you said your part 1st... Sorry.
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doesn't really matter tbh...
ye, this fits to the last 5 pages.
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so your arguing the point that it does NOT take less skill, and less timing?....
MI pointed out that it DOES take less skill, you even agreed (5 pages later)
and you still think you "won" ??
see komo, thats your problem... you even admited you "argue" and "debate" and you want to "win"...
get over dude... lets just all drop it, this thread has turned into a komo thread, and for that reason, you win.
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Edit: Nevermind brainlag!
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(https://i.imgur.com/qDQeQMf.png)
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avi, you are a complete fool, I agreed that "letting go of space" is a "physical action", obviously you can't read properly, what is wrong with you lol?
Edit: Obviously you are unable to grasp the concept that comes with the ability to achieve more when the bar is raised avi, "letting go of space" is like what, 1/2% of roping lol, how close minded are you?!
And that still ISN'T the point I was making overall anyway ! You always try to pick on the smallest details that don't even matter lol...
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We can do a cup with the script! Maybe it doesn't even change anything and is just a convenient script for top tier ropers that have the timing right anyway and it just reduces hardware mistakes. But it certainly is a big help for ppl that are new to fingerroll, no doubt.
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lol 6 pages of everyone calling komo an idiot, and making fun of him.. and cracking jokes at his expense, and he still thinks he is right, and calls others fools! :DD
keep it up komo, its getting funnier ;D
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We can do a cup with the script! Maybe it doesn't even change anything and is just a convenient script for top tier ropers that have the timing right anyway and it just reduces hardware mistakes. But it certainly is a big help for ppl that are new to fingerroll, no doubt.
Top tier ropers don't fingerroll. Only noobs who couldn't hack it with one finger do.
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We can do a cup with the script! Maybe it doesn't even change anything and is just a convenient script for top tier ropers that have the timing right anyway and it just reduces hardware mistakes. But it certainly is a big help for ppl that are new to fingerroll, no doubt.
Top tier ropers don't fingerroll. Only noobs who couldn't hack it with one finger do.
That's like saying people that use both feet to jump in basketball (because you can jump higher with it than with 1 foot) are worse than people that only jump with 1 foot.
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Ryan, you ONLY have to do less if you plan on roping the exact same way you have before this script, this ADDS possibilities, it doesn't take them away, it makes it just the same, if not make it even harder to be the best... Think about it carefully please?
If no one understands this by now, well, they never will... I've said it the best it can be said really...
It was only a general "thought" anyway, not something I actually desperately want done, afaik, it has 0.01% of ever happening.
Edited because I sounded harsh.
Komo, you will know by reading the posts, regardless of my response that a script that does stuff for you removes skill.
It does appear that you are hanging onto an obtuse opinion and that you are debating with the wrong crowd,
especially when it involves RR.
Just drop it and move on
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We can do a cup with the script! Maybe it doesn't even change anything and is just a convenient script for top tier ropers that have the timing right anyway and it just reduces hardware mistakes. But it certainly is a big help for ppl that are new to fingerroll, no doubt.
Top tier ropers don't fingerroll. Only noobs who couldn't hack it with one finger do.
That's like saying people that use both feet to jump in basketball (because you can jump higher with it than with 1 foot) are worse than people that only jump with 1 foot.
Oh man, we're not even halfway through 2013, and there's already a front-runner in the worst analogy competition. You take the cake. :D
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You don't get it?
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Ever heard of layup?
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I do, can you answer my question now please.
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I do, can you answer my question now please.
He's inferring that you can jump higher off of one foot than two, physically demonstrated best by a basketball layup, which is absolutely and unequivocally correct. Anus would know this if he watched basketball. Which you should, Kai.
On this novella of a topic, everyone using a script like this should be hunted down and caned. Except Anubis, he already has had 10 years of backlash under his belt.
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On this novella of a topic, everyone using a script like this should be hunted down and caned. Except Anubis, he already has had 10 years of backlash under his belt.
Anubis is the anti script.
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On this novella of a topic, everyone using a script like this should be hunted down and caned. Except Anubis, he already has had 10 years of backlash under his belt.
Anubis is the anti script.
Now he is, but I gave him about a full year of shit back in the day for using a script. After that we became buddies :-* At least he finally came clean with it, most people have to get caught in the act first. You know who you are. Hell, Anubis got a hell of a lot more shit for cheating back then than people get now.
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Komo, you will know by reading the posts, regardless of my response that a script that does stuff for you removes skill.
The only thing I will accept it removes, is the fact that MI provided, "taking finger off space" is a physical action, now, if that can even be considered "a skill/skillset" it would amount to a tiny % of skill involved in all roping(imo less than 2% but perfect timing & best moves possible would become even more important, and would overlap this...), even more so, letting go of something, can hardly be called a skill can it? Learning FR is a skill, learning power spikes, reverse shadows etc, the timing of smooth roping, using the right move at the right time, THOSE are skills, the skills I am talking about.
I am looking at it in an equal way, if it's available to everyone, ANYONE can learn how to FR if they have passion and can put the time in. This script doesn't make anybodys hands faster or slower, it does not make their reactions faster, or help their common sense to do the right thing at the right time.
Spamming 20 keys won't do anything, unless you know how to do it right, even the fastest possible human reaction, still needs precise timing in this case... How certain people don't understand this is beyond me lol, it's simple to understand, very very very simple.
I would see great ropers become better with this script, they would be competing at an even harder level of skill/timing.
I will never stop posting to this thread as long as people keep posting back trying to say I am wrong lol.
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If releasing the spacebar isn't a skill, how do you feel about the remapping program I mentioned where you can press two spaces simultaneously, resulting in two rapid space presses?
This is done with a basic remapping program that I haven't named, no special scripting or anything.
Also, those backwards shadows take a lot of skill and timing, unless you've got 2 spacebars or some kind of macro. Your 2% number is bullshit.
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Are you talking to me j0e? Do you mean pressing 2 at the EXACT same moment of time but it shoots them 1 after the other at the fastest speed possible by the game? If that's what you mean, I think that is different from having to actually press multiple buttons 1 after the other, for me that's along the lines of using "double tap" macros(pressing 1 time, for 2+ times).
Is that the script we have been talking about? No one mentioned you can press the buttons at the same time and it will shoot 1 after the other at the fastest speed possible by the game...all I seen was you don't have to let go of 1 button to press another(2 spaces pressed down at the same time).Those are 2 completely different things. If that IS this script, then it isn't my fault no one has explained it properly and we've ended up with this massive debate, and yeah, I am completely wrong.
But I have a feeling we are actually talking about just being able to have 2 buttons pressed down at the same time, not 1 action acting as 2 actions.
Am I right in assuming, if you hold 2 fingers together (kinda like when you, you know, with a girl ;)) and press 2 buttons down at the exact same time (1 action) it treats it as 2 seperate actions?
I would imagine pressing 2 at the exact same time shouldn't work as 2 seperate actions/1 after the other. If that's what this script does, then that's definitely bullshit and should never be allowed, plus whoever created it should f@#! off in horrible pain..
j0e, with or without AHK, the timing would still be exactly the same, so I stick by 2% or less.
Edit: Also, please don't confuse "skill" with "natural talent".
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Do you mean pressing 2 at the EXACT same moment of time but it shoots them 1 after the other at the fastest speed possible by the game?
Yes. Not AHK, a different program... just a normal remapper like Intes Keychange. Just a simple remap, not a script or a macro.
Am I right in assuming, if you hold 2 fingers together (kinda like when you, you know, with a girl ) and press 2 buttons down at the exact same time (1 action) it treats it as 2 seperate actions?
Lol ;). Yeah, something like that. If you spam/tap fast enough with enough "spaces" it will actually keep tapping for a second after you stop until they've all been pressed.
If that IS this script, then it isn't my fault no one has explained it properly and we've ended up with this massive debate, and yeah, I am completely wrong.
I said, earlier in this thread, "there are some remappers that will accept both inputs, even if the two spaces are pressed at the same time, and input one space right after the other." That's pretty clear- don't blame me for you not understanding it.
j0e, with or without AHK, the timing would still be exactly the same, so I stick by 2% or less.
Using AHK you don't have to move your fingers as much, meaning there are fewer opportunities for you to f@#! up your timing. There is zero chance of you bungling your quick reverse-shadow, because the space doesn't have to be released before your next rope shot fires. That is a change of the timing.
Also, please don't confuse "skill" with "natural talent".
This seems like a pretty meaningless sentence. I don't see how I've confused those two things. Can you elaborate? :o
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I said, earlier in this thread, "there are some remappers that will accept both inputs, even if the two spaces are pressed at the same time, and input one space right after the other." That's pretty clear- don't blame me for you not understanding it.
Yeah well then it's all good, your thing isn't what I was arguing about *phew*, I probably did read that but forgot about it because it wasn't part of the thing I was happy to become legal, sorry :D
Using AHK you don't have to move your fingers as much, meaning there are fewer opportunities for you to f@#! up your timing. There is zero chance of you bungling your quick reverse-shadow, because the space doesn't have to be released before your next rope shot fires. That is a change of the timing.
1st off, this depends on the kind of equipment you have, also, different people will see this differently, I for one don't see how you don't have to move your fingers as much, I am pretty sure it would require the same effort (as much as your body can physically handle lol), especially if you were moving from being a 1 finger tapper, to a FR player, you'd be using more fingers... I'd actually maybe put time into learning FR because this script would make it possible for me, because I can't spare money to buy keyboards with good enough response, I am sure many other players are in my situation as well...
This seems like a pretty meaningless sentence. I don't see how I've confused those two things. Can you elaborate? :o
I am not really saying you have confused either, but I just wanted to point out, some people are just born better than others in certain areas... That's natural talent not skill.
I wouldn't call someone with unhumane reflexes as skilled, I would call them talented.
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I wonder how many great ropers of the past need to join in this discussion to beat the evil that is Komo delusion.
We've got joe now, anyone got jmo's number?
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You seem to be forgetting I fit into that category as well ropa, but more important, like some other people in this topic, your biggest flaw right now is thinking that being in the majority means being correct.
Do you even know what we are arguing about? I'll be surprised if you can even answer that, since you seem to just be a sheep.
Finally I am having a proper debate with j0e, and yet again, mindless drones like you come in trying to insult without any input into the actual conversation.
Just to make it clear, yet again, my main concern is when free said:
Lol, funny, but you still need skill and good timing, obviously, dunno why u guys being so dumb but whatever lol.
The thing is, you need less skill and less good timing if you allow script like that.
Let's start all over if we need to, WHY do you agree to this statement by free?
Having hands that can move faster than others is NOT a skill, it's a talent:
Skill:
1.
the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2.
competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3.
a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience: the skill of cabinetmaking.
Talent:
1.
a special natural ability or aptitude: eg. a talent for drawing.
2.
a capacity for achievement or success; ability: young men of talent.
3.
a talented person: The cast includes many of the theater's major talents.
4.
a group of persons with special ability: an exhibition of watercolors by the local talent.
The thing you guys are saying I am wrong about, more specifically the thing ropa accused me of taking 4 pages to figure out is using AHK requires less skill, when in fact, you mean less talent. So therefor you are all wrong, even if it's just because you used the wrong word, and the above is my proof. If you want to argue that it requires less talent, and it makes the game look/feel less natural, fair enough, I agree with that, but skill, nope, you are VERY wrong.
It doesn't matter how much you practise, how much time and effort you put into it, if you don't have the natural talent of having ridiculously fast fingers, you will get nowhere.
If it was a skill, anyone could be the best at it, with time/effort & passion.
The ONLY thing I was literally proven wrong about in this thread was when I said to MI "Macros are completely different, you aren't physically pressing anything(physically doing the work yourself) if you do that" which I was basically saying the AHK 2-space thing still requires all the work, which he then made me realise releasing the spacebar is still a physical action.
But as I have just made clear, this doesn't even attribute to skill, but rather talent.
Take the 2 fastest & most skilled "FR" players, or even people who can just twitch really really fast like Mablak, make them play with this AHK script, they aren't going to start slacking off, or being lazy, to be just as good as they were without the script, they would/should put just as much effort/speed/timing/experience/thought/whatever into their roping as they did before, if not more, and this would result in both players achieving a higher standard of roping, it might not be "natural" but it sure reaches the goals of these schemes better, and if all players had this, they would all need to work harder to compete, making roping HARDER to learn if AHK was legal & popular/common.
If you are not going to read my post VERY CAREFULLY and reply with a calm, civilized debate, try and prove me wrong or something, then your opinion doesn't even count, make the effort, or your posts will be regarded as pointless and useless, either that or you are just too lazy, but at least admit it lol.
*may be few typos, cba checking...*
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Going off on a tangent comparing skill to talent and telling us all how very very wrong we are and we just dont get it doesnt take away from the fact that AHK takes away the skill (not the "talent) of co-ordinating the timely releasing of the spacebar before pressing it.
Using AHK may showcase talent but it by allowing you to do it using less skill.
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Ryan, excuse me, but who holds the spacebar for periods of time? I assume everyone presses it as quick as they can, letting go immediately, don't start trying to exaggerrate things now.
That is NOT a skill, you don't have to learn to "let go" of it, it's common sense ! It is still technically a "talent" being able to press it and let go as fast as possible, you cannot LEARN this with practise/time.
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I wonder how many great ropers of the past need to join in this discussion to beat the evil that is Komo delusion.
We've got joe now, anyone got jmo's number?
why do we need jmo's number when we have the #1 jmo impersonator right here ;D
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Ryan, excuse me, but who holds the spacebar for periods of time? I assume everyone presses it as quick as they can, letting go immediately, don't start trying to exaggerrate things now.
That is NOT a skill, you don't have to learn to "let go" of it, it's common sense ! It is still technically a "talent" being able to press it and let go as fast as possible, you cannot LEARN this with practise/time.
When mindlessly tapping two space bars the norm is that many inputs are lost because even a master finger roller presses one key on top of another by mistake (specially while scrolling or just showcasing tap speed) even if it's just 1% of the overall taps in said burst. The script removes said handicap.
And then there is the fact that even a master finger roller rolling with perfect timing there's the chance his hardware doesn't react as fast as him (keys get stuck, they don't have 100% accuracy when on strong stress) and again, maybe this only affects 1% of the taps in a burst, but said script removes the handicap.
you don't have to learn to "let go" of it, it's common sense ! It is still technically a "talent" being able to press it and let go as fast as possible
this is really funny in the sense that most keyboards will always be slower than a finger roller, let me explain:
you have two spaces, A and B, if you press A and then B really fast, you'll press B much earlier than the A key goes up again and is allowed to be pressed again meaning that if you were to press A again after B, it will never register, most likely, the next B is what registers (this doesn't matter while fingerolling at full speed, well, it technically does matter, just not in practice for the most part). So you're intrinsically limited by hardware. This script removes said handicap
I hope that once you get your mind around this fact you start becoming a type 1 human being capable of feedback.
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Seriously, all it takes is "Oh, I have to let go of the spacebar so I can press it again", you are timing your taps for specific moves(which is the skill, because you need to learn how to do these moves over time, AHK doesn't help you to learn these skills, but natural talent separates the average from the best), not timing when you release space, unless for some reason, some people keep the spacebar held down until they press it again, which is weird is it not, because then they would lose a little time lifting their finger to press it when it's needed again...
When mindlessly tapping two space bars the norm is that many inputs are lost because even a master finger roller presses one key on top of another by mistake (specially while scrolling or just showcasing tap speed) even if it's just 1% of the overall taps in said burst.
And with that being said, do you accept that some people just can't do it? If it was a skill, anyone could learn it, some people just CAN'T do it to the extents of people like barman, their fingers just won't let them, hence making someone like barman more talented than the average FR Roper who fails where he succeeds.
If AFK was legal, and allowed in Leagues, barman would lose his advantage from being more talented, however, more than likely barman would improve with AFK, so the bar would be raised even higher, if he could be bothered, that is.
I will go as far to say that basic FR can be learned to a degree with skill(learning the actual roll of the fingers, using 1/2/3 fingers depending on the move you are trying, as i've seen in many FR videos), but you NEED that natural talent when you are competing at the TOP level, and THAT is what I am basing my arguement on.
Edit after ropas edit: With the stuff you added, that logic just makes me think players shouldn't even be allowed to mod their keyboards at all, and everyone should require a specific model so NO ONE has advantages/dis-advantages... But more to the point, if you are restricted by hardware, that is taking away the talent, not the skill... The talent of having fast enough fingers to lift them out the way faster than other people can...
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I like how you play devil's advocate with a shovel
let me know when you hit rock bottom
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you say "letting go of space, does not take skill" my friend, that is a necessary when roping UNLESS you are using a script... so with that logic, your saying pressing the sapce does not take skill either.... your right.... any monkey (sorry monkeyisland) can press a f@#!ing space bar... and any asshole (sorry ropa) can let go of the spacebar... but wtf?? its when the actions are combined, with the proper timing, and executed properly that the skill is formed....
komo, do you want to know what your doing when you post proper definitions for words (that we all know you did not have in mind during any of your arguments, because you obviously just googled them) your trying to find a loophole for being an idiot.
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avi, I actually copied and pasted skill/talent from the dictionary, so if anyone looked for themselves they would see the same thing, you have some imagination though ;D
avi, finally you said something that makes sense !
its when the actions are combined, with the proper timing, and executed properly that the skill is formed....
This is what I have been thinking all along, and why I am saying AHK doesn't reduce skill, it takes ALL elements combined to be amongst the greatest... The way I see it, just because "AHK" does this stupid 2 space thing, doesn't reduce the skill, because of all the other elements involved, the taps/letting go, whatever-the-f@#!, doesn't matter 1 bit, if you don't know the rest...
Technical problems, limitations etc, those are kinda luck in a way... I see skill as learning what you need to learn, and talent is your ability to use that to it's full potential.
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doesn't really matter tbh...
ye, this fits to the last 5 7 pages.
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;D
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I do, can you answer my question now please.
He's inferring that you can jump higher off of one foot than two, physically demonstrated best by a basketball layup, which is absolutely and unequivocally correct. Anus would know this if he watched basketball. Which you should, Kai.
On this novella of a topic, everyone using a script like this should be hunted down and caned. Except Anubis, he already has had 10 years of backlash under his belt.
You are wrong, I used to be a basketball addict, why would I make an analogy off of something I have no idea about. In my teens I was religiously performing jumping exercises to push my vertical jump.
Two feet will push you off the ground higher. Jumping has everything to do with your legs. Hence why players rarely jump off one leg for a jumpshot, because they need the elevation using both feet to get up higher. They only take one step jumps when they need that extra step to get to the basket for a layin or dunk.
Here is a video with Gerald Green, currently (to my knowledge) the player in the NBA with the highest vertical jump, look at his jumping technique:
and now read this little copy from wiki about vertical jumps, it explains why you jump higher with both:
An important component of maximizing height in a vertical jump is attributed to the use of counter-movements of the legs and arm swings prior to take off, as both of these actions have been shown to significantly increase the body’s center of mass rise. The counter-movement of the legs, a quick bend of the knees which lowers the center of mass prior to springing upwards, has been shown to improve jump height by 12% compared to jumping without the counter-movement. This is contributed to the stretch shortening cycle of the leg muscles enabling the muscles to create more contractile energy. Furthermore, jump height can be increased another 10% by executing arm swings during the take off phase of the jump compared to if no arm swings are utilized. This involves lowering the arms distally and posteriorly during the leg counter-movements, and powerfully thrusting the arms up and over the head as the leg extension phase begins. As the arms complete the swinging movement they pull up on the lower body causing the lower musculature to contract more rapidly, hence aiding in greater jump height.
As you can see, to maximize height you will need to perform actions which are impossible to do while running and jumping off one foot.
Btw @ Wally/van: Let's not further derail this thread with basketball I just had to reply to this because it was quite an insult to me to believe I have no idea about b-ball/vertical jumps. xD
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Ignoring those bogus dictionary definitions, what Komo is basically saying is that, as long as the technology is available to everyone, we should be allowed to rope with brain implants that sense our control inputs.
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as long as the technology is available to everyone, we should be allowed to rope with brain implants that sense our control inputs.
Lmao, cmon, THAT would be awesome ! At least just for fun :D
Ooo Kai, that was VERY interesting, didn't know that !
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But it takes away the physical skill if you use thought for roping just like the AHK script, just not even close as much as a thinking input device. However, the ONLY reason why I started to mod my keyboards was to reduce hardware failure, at some point any keyboard reaches it's limit even though the user could still perform faster and more accurate. We don't have any professional sports so our hardware devices are not optimal for roping, it's not like we have a kb manufacture that releases new kbs only focused on roping, we have to adapt to whatever is available in the broad variety of kbs we can choose from. Going from pressing to touch sensitive space bar is a huge difference with a lot more control and is in my opinion the best way to have the highest possible physical skill while still reducing hardware failures and not relying on any software script.
Take the 2 fastest & most skilled "FR" players, or even people who can just twitch really really fast like Mablak, make them play with this AHK script, they aren't going to start slacking off, or being lazy, to be just as good as they were without the script, they would/should put just as much effort/speed/timing/experience/thought/whatever into their roping as they did before, if not more, and this would result in both players achieving a higher standard of roping, it might not be "natural" but it sure reaches the goals of these schemes better, and if all players had this, they would all need to work harder to compete, making roping HARDER to learn if AHK was legal & popular/common.
Once again, like I have previously stated, without FR the script won't do anything, you need at least 2 individual fingers moving on 2 individual space bars to benefit from the script. If twitching still means what it used to, then using the twitching technique in roping only utilizes 1 space bar and having a 2nd (which you need) will do nothing. Everyone would need to learn FR.
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Are there any keyboards with a space that pressing with 1 finger, releasing halfway, will still work?
I wonder if we were to have some company design keyboards solely for roping, how would they do it?
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Cherry make keyboards with switches.
These switches act like springs in the keys allowing the keys to bounce back up quickly.
This means that the space bar (for example) will be ready for you to tap again more quickly.
Obviously this is good for super fast typers but I think these switches were also designed with shooting games in mind.
That is scratching the surface - a keyboard enthusiast could go in more detail... there are many different colour switches, requiring different key push pressure to register and making louder/quiter click sounds when keys are hit.
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Hmm, interesting indeed, how reliable are they though, how robust? When you say good for super fast typers does that imply people like us abusing the spacebar would ruin it pretty quickly, or they have gaming models too? Man I wish we could "try before buy" with keyboards lol, it would make it so much easier, I just fear buying a whole lot and not being satisfied, and wasting my money...
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There are 4 MX switches from Cherry (the in-house built kbs from Cherry are shit, they sell their technology to other brands).
Basically there are 2 categories:
Blue and brown: They "click" when they are pressed making it a audible and because of a slight resistance it's also a tactile feel to every key press. Blue requires more than brown and brown is less tactile.
Red and black: They don't click and thus you don't hear them. The red are straight forward and require the least force to press down, black is similiar but requires more force to press.
I have the blue MX switches since I bought it for typing and not for roping. It is very reliable but the greater force you need to press space down is far greater than any rubberdome kb so it's not really suitable for really fast taps. I heard mayhem has the red ones so he can shine some light on that.
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I actually think they are gaming keyboards.
Example is the Cherry g80. That is one of the cheapest mechanical keyboards I can find, at £60.
They are expensive - enough to put me off buying one. I have that fear and wish for 'try before buy' too.
I can't on robustness through experience. I have read reviews and because they are mechanical with a simple design, they appear to be robust.
Edit: anubis's post looks far more useful.
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I actually think they are gaming keyboards.
Example is the Cherry g80. That is one of the cheapest mechanical keyboards I can find, at £60.
They are expensive - enough to put me off buying one. I have that fear and wish for 'try before buy' too.
I can't on robustness through experience. I have read reviews and because they are mechanical with a simple design, they appear to be robust.
Edit: anubis's post looks far more useful.
that's the one I have, at 50€ including shipping, also the cheapest I could find from an online shop and not second hand.
they're built to last more than average keyboards but the switches don't have an unlimited life
they're actually built for office work, for fast typing, just some people found them useful for gaming and now there are other companies which build gaming keyboards with cherry switches.
regardless of this, membrane keyboards are better for most games.
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I do, can you answer my question now please.
He's inferring that you can jump higher off of one foot than two, physically demonstrated best by a basketball layup, which is absolutely and unequivocally correct. Anus would know this if he watched basketball. Which you should, Kai.
On this novella of a topic, everyone using a script like this should be hunted down and caned. Except Anubis, he already has had 10 years of backlash under his belt.
You are wrong, I used to be a basketball addict, why would I make an analogy off of something I have no idea about. In my teens I was religiously performing jumping exercises to push my vertical jump.
Two feet will push you off the ground higher. Jumping has everything to do with your legs. Hence why players rarely jump off one leg for a jumpshot, because they need the elevation using both feet to get up higher. They only take one step jumps when they need that extra step to get to the basket for a layin or dunk.
Here is a video with Gerald Green, currently (to my knowledge) the player in the NBA with the highest vertical jump, look at his jumping technique:
and now read this little copy from wiki about vertical jumps, it explains why you jump higher with both:
An important component of maximizing height in a vertical jump is attributed to the use of counter-movements of the legs and arm swings prior to take off, as both of these actions have been shown to significantly increase the body’s center of mass rise. The counter-movement of the legs, a quick bend of the knees which lowers the center of mass prior to springing upwards, has been shown to improve jump height by 12% compared to jumping without the counter-movement. This is contributed to the stretch shortening cycle of the leg muscles enabling the muscles to create more contractile energy. Furthermore, jump height can be increased another 10% by executing arm swings during the take off phase of the jump compared to if no arm swings are utilized. This involves lowering the arms distally and posteriorly during the leg counter-movements, and powerfully thrusting the arms up and over the head as the leg extension phase begins. As the arms complete the swinging movement they pull up on the lower body causing the lower musculature to contract more rapidly, hence aiding in greater jump height.
As you can see, to maximize height you will need to perform actions which are impossible to do while running and jumping off one foot.
Btw @ Wally/van: Let's not further derail this thread with basketball I just had to reply to this because it was quite an insult to me to believe I have no idea about b-ball/vertical jumps. xD
Anus, you are losing it man. If this were true high jumpers would take off from two feet. They do not. If this were true long jumpers would take off with two feet. They don't. Either they havent been informed that they can jump with two feet and jump higher and longer, or you have been grossly misinformed. And btw this thread needs derailing, and if we can make it about basketball, all the better.
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High jumpers and long jumpers also need speed to get distance, its not pure vertical jump. You greatly reduce the distance if you don't get enough speed. Just makes most obvious sense to me that you get most power to your jump when using both feet+your hands to get maximium vertical jump.. can't really see someone doing a box-jump as high with 1 leg as you could when you use both legs
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What the hell? I talked about the HEIGHT, not how far you can jump. Look at all the vertical jump records, they are all done using both legs. I am not gonna google this for you but the evidence is all over the web, youtube etc. Seriously this argument is senseless. xD
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i actually always thought you get a higher jump with 1 foot... and for myself, i can jump higher with one foot... i know in my prime i could dunk the basketball taking flight from one foot, if i tried jumping with 2, i could only imagine not coming close....
i also remember (and may be wrong) that when they measure your vertical leap they measure a 2 footed jump.... maybe thats why you see all the vertical records are 2 feet anubis? lol...
but... im not saying either of you are right... im not sure tbh...
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So heres the deal, I think I know what happened here. Originally, Anubis said this:
That's like saying people that use both feet to jump in basketball (because you can jump higher with it than with 1 foot) are worse than people that only jump with 1 foot.
That simply isn't true, there is no argument, you can jump higher with one foot. I don't need to google anything or look up any records to clarify, it is just common sense. That is why in dunk contests and high jump, where the object is to leap as high as possible, the person takes a few strides before taking off from one foot.
However, I am thinking Anus was talking about standing vertical jump, where you are at a standstill, just probably forgot to clarify that in his first post. Again, common sense dictates that when stationary, you can jump higher and more explosively when using two feet.
In closing, if you think that the maximum height a human being can jump, while running or otherwise is best achieved off of two feet rather than one, I can't help you. You are beyond the help of reason.
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I don't have a clue about Basketball really, but I am leaning towards believing Anus over Wally...
Did you see that guy jump lol?
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So heres the deal, I think I know what happened here. Originally, Anubis said this:
That's like saying people that use both feet to jump in basketball (because you can jump higher with it than with 1 foot) are worse than people that only jump with 1 foot.
That simply isn't true, there is no argument, you can jump higher with one foot. I don't need to google anything or look up any records to clarify, it is just common sense. That is why in dunk contests and high jump, where the object is to leap as high as possible, the person takes a few strides before taking off from one foot.
However, I am thinking Anus was talking about standing vertical jump, where you are at a standstill, just probably forgot to clarify that in his first post. Again, common sense dictates that when stationary, you can jump higher and more explosively when using two feet.
In closing, if you think that the maximum height a human being can jump, while running or otherwise is best achieved off of two feet rather than one, I can't help you. You are beyond the help of reason.
It totally depends on the situation, if you need distance with the height, depending on the distance/height your trying to achieve, it might be better to take off with 1 feet (you maintain more speed on the jump but dont achieve the maximium height possible) but take a look at the video anubis posted for example, if that dude has the highest vertical jump in b-ball, he takes off with 2 feet in that case, because he doesn't need to cover that much of a distance to use 1 feet to maintain better speed.
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a vertical stand still jump will always gain more height if done properly with both legs and foot
in matches, people use one foot because they're running and that provides them with distance as well as height for a layup/dunk
this doesn't take away the fact that there are plenty of moves in basketball that make use of the standstill two foot jump, not only the standstill dunk, it's also used in rebounding, jump stops and blocks on 1v1 defense.
I'm not american, but I can dunk so I hope that helps.
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goto Moon!
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I can see that this topic has been totally derailed from the original issue but my opinion on the matter is this:
Remapping itself is nothing if its only to change the position of space etc, however the fr is an issue many would argue "for" or "against", I simply dont mind it.
I have used a remapper to move Space to Alt since its a smaller button and my space had been totally destroyed on my previous laptop. Now I got a new laptop and I will remap it again probably for roping.
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this topic is now about basketball and jumping with ur both feet at the same time
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cats have perfect technique of jumping, take a look at this
NOW THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT CATS AHAHAH (http://higgs.rghost.ru/45748437/image.png)
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I think there are more sports related injuries than car crash related injuries.
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hmmm impo I'd say that cat used only 1 leg to jump xDDddd and not both!
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So the conclusion is that 1x enter jump is better using 1 leg and 1x backspace jump using 2 legs?
Correct me if I misunderstood something :-X.
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I think cats are better than dogs
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So the conclusion is that 1x enter jump is better using 1 leg and 1x backspace jump using 2 legs?
Correct me if I misunderstood something :-X.
if you didnt knew, as fast you press 2x backspace as higher will be the jump, thats why players using key remappers to get as higher jump as possible and its obviously cheating
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I ruined this thread, I apologize. D:
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I am dropping this, its pointless to try and convince. I could explain that the momentum of swinging and lifting arm and knee simultaneously results in more upward kinetic energy, but people would stil argue. I'm sure we can all agree that Ropa can't dunk, though.
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come on, buy a few Low Gravity, problem solved...
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Low gravity ist to expensive.. Its all about the 2x jump
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oh yes, double jump (http://px.worms2d.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=378), how could I forget :-[
lol
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About the topic:
a key remapper won't add up to your xp in serious games.
Except in hysteria...
About the komodo island:
Varanus komodoensis is a very interesting species. Kind of isolated, the only carnivorous lizard that grown such big because there were no other species in the same niche, blood-tinged saliva.
Why did you pick your nickname?
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How you get your name? You have 8 legs or something?
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Why that specific song?
Lyrics:
Save our soul, save it now for a better life
Time to break because time is flying on and on
But if you want to believe in a better life
Find a way, try now, come together with a smile
I have got 3 legs... but please, it's too obscene here. :D
Yeah, my first first nickname was SpideRoper... 13+ years back in time.
And after sometime, I've just cut it.
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At the time it was my favourite song, and I just loved the name "Komodo", also, whenever I hear this song it reminds me of my Grandfather(was soon after he passed away), I will cherish this song and this name till the day I die, to remember him.
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Make your life worth it then, he'd be glad.
Time to break because time is flying on and on.
PS. Since the main topic was trolled some pages back, imo key remapping is ok and it doesn't give you wins or great advantage because of loss of control in timing. The gain is just a few more childish taps :)
Peace
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spider, i know this thread has been confusing, and went into 5 different directions, so its not surprise you missed key things...
everyone agrees remapping your keys is fine, and sometimes needed to bypass keylock, or if you break your space, etc....
but there is a certain program that remaps keys, that will bypass the need to release a key, before another is pressed....
example: finger rollers can press one space, and before having to release the first space, this program allows them to press another space.. making their taps quicker, and making it easier for them to finger roll.... most people here seems to think its a form of cheating, i too am in that crowed that thinks its a form of cheating... how ever, not everyone thinks its cheating... there is one special person that thinks its ok, and should be accepted... he has stayed awake for 10 days straight, drank more vodka then any 1 man has ever drank, he gained a substantial amount of weight so that cute woman will not find him attractive, and his name was formed for the love of his grandfather.
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he has stayed awake for 10 days straight, drank more vodka then any 1 man has ever drank
Pff, where's my mdma!
Now I see that remapping is important for such players, the whole keyboard could turn into space bars button. In such way punching the keyboard would perform amazing taps!
he gained a substantial amount of weight so that cute woman will not find him attractive
That should be considered cheating your own gameplay.
Is there a way to identify when someone is using such script? If yes, say hi to deadcode!
Well, anyway I still think that, in ropers, for example, you gotta own not only space bar taps, but mostly the arrows, timing and strategy. Maybe I didn't get it correctly because I've never tryed it, but I don't see the imense advantage of it. Like I said, that won't increase your experience with the overall skills involved.
Learning to roper the human way is like learning to ride a bike. You won't forget.
Where are the IBB's roper tricks gifs? That is a good worms promotion.
Does these key'remappers even know what a mexican is?
Make me a shortkey for a mexican please.
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avi, I don't care whether you believe MY actions in MY life, you can curse about me and wish I was dead, you can even hunt me down and murder me, I won't complain, but leave my family out of it, my Grandfather was more of a man than you EVER will be.
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You won't complain if avirex comes to your house and murders you? :o I'm confused.
Also: hi spider :)
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How could I? I'd be dead ;D
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Come on Komo, give papa a hug!
Avirex is not a t-rex, I hope ;)
/me wishes the wa community could meet up at a bar with free beers and nasty girls! :D
Hi Walrus!
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he has stayed awake for 10 days straight, drank more vodka then any 1 man has ever drank, he gained a substantial amount of weight so that cute woman will not find him attractive, and his name was formed for the love of his grandfather.
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Very mature.
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lol.. i was just making a funny...
i didn't and wouldn't say anything rude about grandpapi.. lol
don't try to make it seem as if i did :p
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avi, you are obviously trying to mock things i've done in my life:
"he has stayed awake for 10 days straight, drank more vodka then any 1 man has ever drank, he gained a substantial amount of weight so that cute woman will not find him attractive, and his name was formed for the love of his grandfather."
Basically saying I am making these things up, I ain't stupid and don't act like I don't know what you were implying.
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i was simply giving clues to your name, without saying your name...
seems like everyone figured it out... its a cool game, here, you try one on me.
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Who is the pimp that f@#!s hoes and then posts video of it on the fos forums?
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now that is agood one wally..
I'm stumped :)
nino or peja is my guess
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D