The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
All About TUS => TUS Discussion => Topic started by: avirex on June 30, 2014, 10:53 PM
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whats the deal with the current clan league??
is it just a summer time funk, people have more important things to do, beaches, parties, clubs to attend?
or is worms slowly dying??
what can we do about it??
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i could start topic like this: https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/sx-public-forum/message-to-the-other-clans-24701/
and so i did, not much of profit xDd
we need to force inactive players to come back, maybe WO can do the job?
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Worms definitely needs renovation. People are also tired to play against the same clans over and over. My suggestion, kill dt, kill ckc, etc, death to all the old clans (at least temporary) and make new clans of 4-5 members. Worth a try, I'm sure ;D
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I'd like the FUGA's idea, but killing all clans is like killing amazing stories :\
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FUGA, that idea is great in theory.. but in reality it sux... everyone suggests that, but if you think about it, it would not help anything, would actually hurt the activity.
think about it, dt has about 8 active members (if you can even call us active)
avirex, free, crazy, nivman, titahemp, dibz, sto cazzo, kaleu.
you will have a hard enough time catching 2 of us online as it is, if you split the clan into half, your chances of finding 2 members of the same clan online has also split in half.
so, all though it sounds great to have more clans, in smaller groups, its just not profitable.
we need to find a way to bring activity back, and splitting clans up is not the answer, i dont believe.
btw: didnt see your post there Impo.. but its a nice one.. gj! ill try to be more active myself.
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beaches, parties, clubs to attend?
this ! ;D
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I see Fox/UC members are pretty active clans. Why not ask them for clanners/tus leagues? I personally just got bored of WA and just stop playing Worms completely.
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FUGA, that idea is great in theory.. but in reality it sux... everyone suggests that, but if you think about it, it would not help anything, would actually hurt the activity.
think about it, dt has about 8 active members (if you can even call us active)
avirex, free, crazy, nivman, titahemp, dibz, sto cazzo, kaleu.
you will have a hard enough time catching 2 of us online as it is, if you split the clan into half, your chances of finding 2 members of the same clan online has also split in half.
so, all though it sounds great to have more clans, in smaller groups, its just not profitable.
we need to find a way to bring activity back, and splitting clans up is not the answer, i dont believe.
btw: didnt see your post there Impo.. but its a nice one.. gj! ill try to be more active myself.
IMO splitting clans is the answer. It gives new kind of motivation, you put more effort into clanning with your newly found tight group becauz you wanna be the bezt.
Though I could never leave U Avi <3
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just put a max on members
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I think the problem is that there aren't many (or any..) newbies who would like to play competitively. What I mean is when i go in #AG, there are not less people as 3-4 years ago, or even more, but if you take a look at the hosts, 90% of them are supersheeper and some variety of full wormage. When me and my old clanmates were playing for about 2 or 3 months, we already started the Hungarian League, coz it was not enough for us to play without any goal.
I think you can't force old people to come back and play 24/7. Old players have already done something in their worms career. It should be the "task" of young players to compete against Random00's records, make new clans to fight with us, or even get some oldschool into their team to make a strong base. I think there must be players like this, but unfortunately they can't find the game or TUS..
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Bring div1 (16 players max) and div2 to TUS.
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This will answer your question avi
http://www.funtrivia.com/askft/Question105315.html
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I think you can't force old people to come back and play 24/7. Old players have already done something in their worms career. It should be the "task" of young players to compete against Random00's records, make new clans to fight with us, or even get some oldschool into their team to make a strong base. I think there must be players like this, but unfortunately they can't find the game or TUS..
Exactly, I have played 9 years straight W:A with no breaks and in no way I feel responsible to the inactivity of W:A clans. Most new players haven't even played 9 years let alone have been around for 14 years. Also, I have no interest in leaving dt, killing off dt would make a comeback for me absolutely pointless. I don't see myself even remotely enjoying W:A without dt.
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Bring div1 (16 players max) and div2 to TUS.
I like that suggestion, it could boost activity by bringing more motivation to all players (both old players and the promising ones). Do it CL2K-style ^^ div1 anyone?? div1 ne1? It's something different, if you can ask around for a div1 in AG. Even if it sounds silly you do feel more recognized.. Atleast it was a big deal back then. Anyhow I think a change in the league system is necessary to motivate players (the base of players has been pretty much the same the past years) and more motivated players should mean more activity...
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is it just a summer time funk, people have more important things to do, beaches, parties, clubs to attend?
Reading books xd :)
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I agree with Tomi and Anubis. It really is up to the new players to carry the torch as such and keep this game alive. The newbies need to learn and improve and need that desire to become the next greats of today. Their arn't as many new emerging players as their used to be...
How do you get the newer players interested in playing league schemes and taking part in tus? i think tel, trl do a good job in this as players usually learn 1 scheme first before learning other schemes and becoming more alrounders. Then clans recruit scheme specialists, and also all rounders to create strong squads to clan with. Look at anyone would like lordhound or ryan in their clan.
I just made another thread about this and think reducing the games required to reach playoffs would make a real difference in encouraging more activity from more inactive players. I'm not interested in trying to play league games because i don't have the time to put the hours in make playoffs. TEL and eac work for me at the moment. https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-general/2014-a-bad-year-for-wa-league-games-24866/
maybe merge the threads - although my topic is more about po requirements and not as high level as this post.
Also isn't league general and tus dicussion the same type of forum? :-X
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Good point chicken, but also we should think about that 50% winning ratio. And maybe the lenght of each season? But the main problem is, that there are to less newcomer. No fights to veterans. They all did a lot in the past over years and life just change. Imo the app generation stealing millions of potential newcomers. Maybe pc games are out in some years. People who sitting in front of a pc just to play a video game drops from week to week.
Guess we have to accept that even if its sad.
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Allowing two clans per player is one way. It could work with this kind of rules
- You are not allowed to play against your other clan or a clan you have been in during the season. This applies to playoffs also.
- A clan must always have at least two players eligible to play against any other clan. (Example: Clan1(A,B,C,D), Clan2(A,B,E,F), Clan3(C,D,E,F)). A clan must meet this requirement when the playoffs start or the clan is replaced by other clan.
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Good point chicken, but also we should think about that 50% winning ratio. And maybe the lenght of each season? But the main problem is, that there are to less newcomer. No fights to veterans. They all did a lot in the past over years and life just change. Imo the app generation stealing millions of potential newcomers. Maybe pc games are out in some years. People who sitting in front of a pc just to play a video game drops from week to week.
Guess we have to accept that even if its sad.
Desktop PC gaming isn't dying and surely you can't blame mobile shit for lack of activity in W:A. xD
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I've never seen a season winner go as unnoticed or be as irrelevant as they are in TUS.
They've been so anti elitism in hopes of offering a place for everyone including oversensitive noobs that winning is so secondary now nobody gives a f@#!.
Also, young cheap gamers looking for their first ever gaming community are never going to find their way into worms with the now hundreds of freeware 3D shooters and F2P (LOL) MMORPGS on Steam.
Bunch of us Worms was our first real online game, or at least, competitive clan experience. We're not getting those kind of people anymore, only russians.
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There are no real who's best clan/player feuds, I remember for example when erod was trying to go 100-0 in WL and succeeded (granted that was during DoN era) it actually made it exciting to watch him going for it and resulted in a lot of attention both in-game and forums. It seems like no one gives a f@#! about being the best anymore, just a friendly "reason" to play serious instead of a funner. I mean even in dt we had talks about going super serious and the whole clan except maybe me and free were against it and just play for fun. That hysteria is in the serious scheme pool doesn't help much either. It yells loud and clear that this is just fun competition. And since there is not even respect to be earned people just don't bother to play anymore. At least that's how I see it.
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I know people have suggested this before but some visible trophy for the clans & players holding ranking 1-3 currently might give a little boost in the activity. In clanbase.com (CS 1.6) there was golden, silver and bronze ladder icons next to clan's name and they were quite desired: "Clan (http://uppaa.fi/images/2014/07/26/cd2f52ebdd72e7c7.gif)" For the latest playoffs winners there could be a golden cup like this "Clan (http://uppaa.fi/images/2014/07/26/030c2548c0cb737f.gif)". Clan/player would hold that trophy till the end of next season.
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I don't play anymore because realistically, what is the point?
A 6 year old league with the same players playing for the same positions month in, month out.
The top spots in ALL leagues haven't changed or even came anywhere near close to being challenged, a big part of the reason for this is so many top position players being inactive or not actively playing competitively anymore.
It's f@#!ing boring, really...
Personally speaking I would save all the League information we have, reset EVERYTHING, that means 1v1/2v2 TEL HAL FREE, Tournament standings, Cup points or whatever and anything else, and start again.
I would definitely get back into clanning if this happened because it would be fresh and exciting again...
Seriously, how can you expect anyone to continue to play for points, when there is no point?
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yea, i said something like that long ago but everyone was like :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, lets save all overall stats gained so far and close `em in lets name it period/era/whateva nr 1 and start 2nd one with who knows how many seasons it will last again, we will see...
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I support the idea! reset all the shit and lets start the new era ae! the stats is already saved on the waybackmachine ahah.
Also we could use breaks between seasons, for example:
season goes for 2 months and then 1 month break (during a break top players and clans would play the playoffs, while the rest would be waiting for the new season)
3month/season makes it 4seasons per year. Winter season, spring season, summer and autumn(fall) seasons.. imo it makes the system perfect
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ladder reset
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Guys, most of you (me too) that are posting here are in between 25-35 years old, don't expect the same passion on a pc game as when you/we were 10-20 y.o. A few newcomers are capable to resist the difference between a 10 years experience player vs a 10 months. Once again, I summon to "div1 and div2", and of course TUS needs a proper notice about who won, who was the runner up, etc.
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All we need are: new players, more new players and some more new players.. dunno, maybe a fresh league can bring here new guys, but i think this will need some advertisement.. firstly in #ag.. maybe new players could call their friens too.. but a bigger advertisement on a good place (that i dont really know, coz i play only this game and visit only tus site) could make the trick.
And maybe we could try some more experimental seasons (or wtf) to try new/modified schemes. Mole shopper is kinda beloved nowadays for example..
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there is such thing in online games as fun/league ratio, how many players play for fun compare to the league players. And comparing to the other games W:A got quite low coef. because you cant find any info about tus except googling or if you are very lucky someone will link you, and there is no other way except tus to become a league player:D I wish W:A had hello-message with join to the tus league invite,
sooner or later they would come and start playing
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I can add a spammer to Great Snooper xd But a bot would be maybe better idea to spam AG about tus :D
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tus-bot! pretty cool idea, short messege about league and a bit of explanation may turn quite effective
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I can add a spammer to Great Snooper xd But a bot would be maybe better idea to spam AG about tus :D
how many snooper users you think are unaware of TUS? 5%?
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I can add a spammer to Great Snooper xd But a bot would be maybe better idea to spam AG about tus :D
how many snooper users you think are unaware of TUS? 5%?
It was just a funny idea, not serious. And my idea is to spam #AG, not only the user.
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ive said it before and will again, reduce the number of games to make playoffs....
There is 17 days left and there won't be any clanner playoffs with current requirements and maybe even singles.
The requirements should reflect activity of the league and when TuS first started they were much lower, they only increased because activity did. Nothing wrong with decreasing so less active people are encouraged to play.
Also make more awareness of previous league winners as others have suggested!
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Chicken that is not a good idea, and I don't know how you or anyone else could think it is a good idea.
Haven't we already reduced the qualification requirements several times in the past already? And each time we done it the League gets less and less active...
Am I the only one seeing a pattern here?
It will still be the same players competing for the same positions, as i've already said, the inactive players will indefinitely remain inactive, because the league no longer offers them anything of interest, importance, or anything challenging anymore, lowering the qualification requirements won't solve this problem, duh...
If anything this will lower activity because less games are required, yet again making winning the title less important & respectable.
Personally speaking, and I know a few people who feel the same way, the only thing that would make me ever compete in TuS again would be a total reset of all League & Events:
The race to get ahead in the standings 1st.
The 1st huge winning streak.
The top positions in various schemes.
Getting ahead in Tournament/Challenge/Cup overall points.
Building up Trophies & Awards from scratch.
New & fresh rivalries against newly inspired players !
& many more...
If MonkeyIsland won't do a full rest, surely the next best thing would be to put up a survey on the main page of TuS, or send one to everyones PM box, asking them why they don't play anymore, or what would make them play more, get actual proper feedback from EVERYONE, not a dozen 1-track-minded old farts who've been playing longer than most of the newer generation have been alive...
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If MonkeyIsland won't do a full rest, surely the next best thing would be to put up a survey on the main page of TuS, or send one to everyones PM box, asking them why they don't play anymore, or what would make them play more, get actual proper feedback from EVERYONE, not a dozen 1-track-minded old farts who've been playing longer than most of the newer generation have been alive...
Make this happen!
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I don't know how you or anyone else could think it is a good idea
well, if this season had playoffs sX would still keep playing
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the idea behind the poll assumes people can read themselves and come with realistic reasons to their behaviour.
too bad they can't
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(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUN_KWjTDF0)
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I don't know how you or anyone else could think it is a good idea
well, if this season had playoffs sX would still keep playing
if it took 40 games to reach clanner playoffs i'd be looking to clan with CKC.
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I don't know how you or anyone else could think it is a good idea
well, if this season had playoffs sX would still keep playing
if it took 40 games to reach clanner playoffs i'd be looking to clan with CKC.
and i'd be looking to clan with TaG if more than 4 clans are looking to clan too
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Instead of saying "I would if" why don't you actually just do it?
And to be quite honest, even if it was lowered I wouldn't really believe you, perhaps you would play for 1 season, possibly 2, then just get bored again and f**k off again...
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Bah
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Instead of saying "I would if" why don't you actually just do it?
And to be quite honest, even if it was lowered I wouldn't really believe you, perhaps you would play for 1 season, possibly 2, then just get bored again and f**k off again...
Because like Anubis, why after over 15 years of playing 1 pc should i feel like I have to carry on playing to keep the game alive? I'll play based on the level of competition and the award of winning, but also what free time i have and as others have stated alot of us are now late 20s-30s with responsibilities in life.. If i can find good close games against sporting players in my limited free time i'd have interest in playing. But the other main problem is the development of younger players. At some point us older players need to pass over the torch and let the younger wormers in the community carry it on.
Look at the way new players come into the game and how their skills are developed and they learn schemes and want to win leagues...
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My point was there is far more than 1 person who keeps saying "if".
And I don't really blame newer players for not wanting to take part and "carry the torch" because it's sad to say but the impression this community gives is far too elitist and newbie unfriendly, not to mention quite violent/immature/rude, which leads me to point out the obvious that the majority of people here can very rarely agree on anything, end up arguing and swearing at each other (myself included in the past).
If you want to keep TuS fresh and interesting, reset everything and thank the idea later.
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i have brought that up quite a while ago... (not saying i was the first)
resetting the league would be ideal, and in fact is needed....
my example was, me going on a 3 season stretch in 1v1 roper, with over 80% wins, and still not coming close to the people in 1st place roper, yet... they only have 70% wins...
the reason for that, is because they dont play, and i cant steal their points....
i do believe all the stats, and players, and achievements should be archived... but these players/clans that have not played in years should not be able to hoard all the points... and imo thats exactly what is going on, inactive players are hoarding points...
welcome back komo :D
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resetting the league would be ideal, and in fact is needed....
my example was, me going on a 3 season stretch in 1v1 roper, with over 80% wins, and still not coming close to the people in 1st place roper, yet... they only have 70% wins...
the reason for that, is because they dont play, and i cant steal their points....
Or just simply remove inactive players from the lists until they play their next game? Overall ranking would then indicate the best active player in long term. "Inactive" = haven't played for six months, for example.
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instead of asking in #ag for a clanner,
maybe it would be helpful to implement a history graphic on tus main page.
''clan a is searching clanner [classic league]''
''clan b accepted to play clanner against clan a [classic league]''
of course it should be possible to cancel it again, unless both clans already agreed on it.
same with free league and singles.
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Or just simply remove inactive players from the lists until they play their next game? Overall ranking would then indicate the best active player in long term. "Inactive" = haven't played for six months, for example.
No no no, that isn't the same, it isn't even close to being the same:
For those of you who have been playing WA Competitive League ever since WACL will have hopefully noticed something.
Each League has ran for roughly 3 or 4 years at most before dying out, each time a new League starts activity picks up (WACL / WL / FB / and now TuS, are the 4 biggest ones I remember).
Especially with FB & TuS (because ladders & no DoN) when all the top spots were hogged by inactive players towards the end, less people would play.
Now in TuS it's getting beyond ridiculous, over 5 years (that's a HUGE HUGE period of time for an era of a League) and personally I see an all-time low now for competitive excitement in a Classic League, being reduced to "Cash Prizes" etc just to try and keep people interested...
Reset the League ! It needs to be done !
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Hah that dude is in Home Improvement, great voice :D
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Each League has ran for roughly 3 or 4 years at most before dying out, each time a new League starts activity picks up (WACL / WL / FB / and now TuS, are the 4 biggest ones I remember).
Especially with FB & TuS (because ladders & no DoN) when all the top spots were hogged by inactive players towards the end, less people would play.
Having both infinite time to collect points and no activity rules is a big factor here. There should be either new league table for each year or the league table should be more dynamic (= inactive players become unranked + rank 1 plays for the position only, no more points). Resetting the current league table is easier than coding a better one, though.
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I really hate the idea of just hiding inactive players for the following reasons:
- These players may possibly never become active again.
- If they do become active it could be at a later time than a worthy challenger was active (meaning anyone could easily miss the opportunity to win the higher position points).
- If they do become active years later than when they stopped playing, their life has more than likely changed, their interests have more than likely changed, they may possible enjoy different schemes to what they did when they were on top.
- When these players eventually start playing again, several worthy challengers/contenders have already missed out the chance to win their points.
- Taking into consideration the amount of top players in overall standings & individual scheme standings who are now inactive(me for example in overall BnG), the chances of them all coming back at the same time is more than likely less than 1%
- The Classic League overall standings aren't "The best players of all time." but rather "The best players for this period of time out of those who participated." <--- Alot of us think Mablak would be higher than Random00 if he had took part in Classic League... So with this being said, why bother keeping the overall standings for any League if they will never be 100% true of ALL players anyway? Especially with all the noob bashing, avoiding, rumours of cheating and whatever other reason anyway...
With the above said, I say it again, save all the League information ! - Start over fresh ! Breathe some fresh air into this musky old League !
Personally I think - Reset ALL Leagues/Events/Standings (Tournaments/Challenges/etc) every 2 years.
It's only a matter of time before someone actually does make another League and everyone joins there for some fresh excitement.
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Ladder reset works in Diablo, so why not in TUS. 8)
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Ladder reset works in Diablo, so why not in TUS. 8)
We should start hosting 1 million euro torunaments now and stream them live on tv. Because it works in other games!
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I really hate the idea of just hiding inactive players
I don't see a real problem since only players who are active at the same time are compared to each others and they are able to challenge each others
- If inactive players don't become active again, they'll remain unranked not affecting others' points.
- If a worthy challenger isn't active anymore when an inactive player returns, that worthy challenger is/will be unranked himself so there is no comparison. If he is still active, he can challenge the returner.
- Players can have option to reset their points and start from 1000 points again.
Like I said, this is just an alternative to having own league table for every 1-2 years. My point was you can't have a league table like now at TUS for any longer because someone can collect points for years and then disappear with #1 position in the pocket forever.
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I fail to see the evidence showing you actually read what I wrote, whatever...
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Ladder reset works in Diablo, so why not in TUS. 8)
We should start hosting 1 million euro torunaments now and stream them live on tv. Because it works in other games!
I knew I should have end my message with "Kappa".
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Ladder reset works in Diablo, so why not in TUS. 8)
We should start hosting 1 million euro torunaments now and stream them live on tv. Because it works in other games!
I knew I should have end my message with "Kappa".
Kappa as in sportswear or the greek letter?
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(http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=204153&d=1404951712)
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oh
he main symbol/emote of Twitch.tv. It represents sarcasm, irony, puns, jokes, and trolls alike. If you see this term used outside of Twitch.tv, then this is not the correct definition.
you're doing it wrong
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It works everywhere, this works too:
(http://cs309430.vk.me/v309430771/7015/D7jZc5I5ObI.jpg)
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there is no doubt that the league needs a reset...
because im lazy, im not going to actually do research, so im sure some jackass will tell me how im one number off, and there for try to discredit my entire post.
but here goes...
ill bet there is less then 5 top 20 all around overall pts holders, that are active on TUS... it makes it almost impossible, if not impossible to ever reach the level of success they have...
how is that fair?? because they started TUS at an earlier time, or took it more serious from the start then other members, they should forever hold their rank?? i dont think thats fair, or an accurate way to measure skills, points, and ratings of current members...
i have a theory, and of course there is no way to prove this.... but i believe that if Mablak came back to worms today (the man that 90% or more of all wormers believe to be hands down the best overall player) he would not be able to reach rank 1 in todays TUS... assuming Random, Barman, Zippo, Crash, etc do not come back as well, and offer him a shot at winning some of their points.
if however he was able to over come the odds, and reach rank 1, it would take him nearly 10x as long as it took the other top 10 players... i cant see anything fair about rewarding the players who got there first... the system seems backwards... when you reach a high rank, you should have to fight to maintain it, not sit comfortably knowing its safe for as long as TUS is alive.
should we give a good old fashion TUS vote, to see if rating should be reset? lol
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Mablak could have played from day to last year, stopped completely, and I doubt anyone would ever reach number 1. It's all about staying in the league and never leaving.
I do agree though, it's a shitty system that was only put in place to guarantee a reasonable activity of the league in its begining. Like all the features that were thrown upon us at the start, with the only reason of bringing hits to the site.
And now, years laters, lots of hotfixes have been applied to make it more "fair", but because the pilars of foundation are just greedy stones, it's all about to collapse. And if it doesn't, its habitants will demolish it.
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yeah, the rating system itself seems great, seems fair, and to some degree, accurate, and rewarding when putting in hard work...
but at some points, you seem to hit a wall in the system, and you just cant go any farther, and that wall is the top10 players that are inactive...
its impossible to get their points, if they dont play... and they dont care to play, because they have already had their success, and there is nothing more for them to look forward to.. there is no more goal to reach...
resetting the league could give the top10 a reason to come back to worms, and could give incentive for everyone else to compete in the league as well... its really a win win situation...
how come when there is an important discussion going on, the people that really matter never voice an opinion?? its as if we discuss things on TUS for no reason at times... or even if there is a reason to discuss them, all we can look forward to is some silly poll... its a bit frustrating to say the least
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I agree that the system is definitely more short term, benefitting those that got there first, but it was there with best intentions.
MI has obviously taken no personal gain from the shortcomings of this system, it is as much the players which cause the problems.
In my opinion any cumulative stats cause a problem because they cause a comparison between players in different eras which is all relative to activity and competition.
Literally getting rid of these cumulative stats will encourage new people to get involved without fear of legacy stats or false accumulation of points.
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It would be nice to know who has read all this, how they feel about it, how other people feel about it and if there is any chance it will ever happen.
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How about to just ask the top 10 (if possible) inactive players if they actually mind "losing" their points. If the majority says go for it the TUS staff has no reason to not do it.
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Interesting, that only inactive players are posting here. Except Avi. :) Maybe cause it just doesnt change anything if we reset all stats?
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Interesting, that only inactive players are posting here. Except Avi. :) Maybe cause it just doesnt change anything if we reset all stats?
I am only inactive because of the reasons i've previously stated in this thread.
I would definitely get active if there was something to play for, and I don't mean money, who gives a f@#! about money, the best things in life come free of money.
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It would be nice to know who has read all this, how they feel about it
I support the idea
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Minus the random money rant you've actually been quite diplomatic, which is good.
Along with the appeal of the game going down, overall ratings require serious effort to compete in.
People are more like to play or even return where they can immediately compete.
There should be more focus and attention on current ratings (short and refreshed seasons, maybe even a less complicated point system) and the aceptance that this game is 16 years old and simply losing appeal.
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worms is a '80-'90 game... we are old, work, women, parties, babies.. we can only hope in these new entries and in the fat ball auhauha
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worms is a '80-'90 game... we are old, work, women, parties, babies.. we can only hope in these new entries and in the fat ball auhauha
Yeah, I mean realistically, not many people have time to compete, let alone try to compete with Random00s standings when the top players don't even play anymore...
@Ryan - Yeah, I need to stop swearing on international forums, it makes me look angry when I am perfectly happy lol.
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I do like the point and ladder system thought. But the inactivity does make it harder for players to get points off the top guys..
One thing i've already found interested is the seeding or ladder in tennis and snooker, how does this work in comparison to wa?
Some players have injuries and lose their top seeds because other players gain more points while those players are inactive. Look at Djokovic, Nadal, Federer and Murray (who's dropped alot). But also those top players are almost always forced to play so if they lose they'll drop down. Our top players arn't forced to play making the systems very different?
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In tennis collected points expire and drop out after one year. We could do the same here with the exception that points expire in two years instead of one (count only last 12 seasons into overall ranking). This could be also fine-tuned this way: the latest year 100% and the 2nd latest year 75% of the points, for example. To motivate top players to actually re-collect their points, they would be rewarded with season playoffs spots:
(http://uppaa.fi/images/2014/08/13/b17592c9a8683f44.jpg)
- players are forced to play to hold their position in the overall ranking
- you need to be only semi-active to get in the playoffs
- you can collect points at one point of the year and get rewarded with a spot in the next couple of playoffs
I would also give points for each win in the playoffs and count them into overall ranking (now you get zero points from the playoffs!) Again look at the top players in tennis. They play in big events only and get their points from there. With something similar here we might get (some) old players interested once again.
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The idea of resetting the League is perfect enough.
There is no need to try and improve on this idea, or come up with your own alternatives.
We don't need story toppers here...
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Since the new season starts in about 1 hour and nothing official has been said so far I guess we can be sure nothing will be done. Would have been a good opportunity to do it before the $ gets introduced in the league.
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true.. but MI is way too inactive, not sure if he actually aware of this idea
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The idea of resetting the League is perfect enough.
There is no need to try and improve on this idea, or come up with your own alternatives.
We don't need story toppers here...
I thought this topic was "activity has decreased, what can we do about it?", not "should we reset the league?".
Reseting the league won't bring back those who would like to participate in the playoffs (=the games which tell who is best) but don't want to play 80 games a season (or even 50-60 if the requirement was lowered). Giving half of the playoffs spots based on overall ranking might solve this and bring back players willing to play ~30 games a season, on average (see my suggestion above).
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People who want to participate in playoffs will do it either way seeing as it's based on seasonal points and not overall.
But resetting all the standings will make more players participate overall, which will more than likely end up with more people to participate in playoffs.
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The idea of resetting the League is perfect enough.
There is no need to try and improve on this idea, or come up with your own alternatives.
We don't need story toppers here...
I thought this topic was "activity has decreased, what can we do about it?", not "should we reset the league?".
Reseting the league won't bring back those who would like to participate in the playoffs (=the games which tell who is best) but don't want to play 80 games a season (or even 50-60 if the requirement was lowered). Giving half of the playoffs spots based on overall ranking might solve this and bring back players willing to play ~30 games a season, on average (see my suggestion above).
i dont agree, resetting the league will not only give the inactive top 10 players a reason to come back (getting the top 10 spots back) but it will give everyone else a chance to actually get those spots....
it is about 99.5% impossible to obtain a top 10 ranking, while 90% of top 10 players do not play. fact.
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Current top 10: Almog, Crash, ZiPpO, Csongi, franz, daiNa, Bry4N, Lukz, barman and Random00.
Of these people, Almog, Crash, daiNa, Lukz and Random00 have played this month. Csongi has played games in July.
That's 50% (60% if you count Csongi) who have recently played.
100% of the numbers you mentioned are therefore pulled straight from your ass. Fact :P
I'd like to point out that if you beat Random00 now, you get so many points you almost instantly qualify for the PO (OK, you'd win, like, 80), but if you reset stats, you'd win 40. If you lose against Random00 now, you lose 2 points or something like that, but if you reset, you'd lose 40. (These are estimates with the numers I'm familiar with here, I may be off by a slight margin, but it's more about the general idea)
These numbers make sense if you've worked with rating systems before.
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Darkone, only because you have introduced cash prizes... Seriously does NOT impress me in the slightest.
Everything I have said I feel is still correct and I stand by it 100%
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I'd like to point out that if you beat Random00 now, you get so many points you almost instantly qualify for the PO (OK, you'd win, like, 80), but if you reset stats, you'd win 40. If you lose against Random00 now, you lose 2 points or something like that, but if you reset, you'd lose 40.
does it matter how many points i can win versus random if the last game he played in classic league was 2 years ago?
thats the point of topic, there is nothing more to achieve for him and thats why we want to reset league
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Of these people, Almog, Crash, daiNa, Lukz and Random00 have played this month. Csongi has played games in July.
I might have also played in July. What are you trying to say exactly?
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For DarkOne:
(http://img.medscape.com/thumbnail_library/dt_131216_cherry_picking_fruit_250x188.jpg)
Only four players of the top ten have played in the classic league seasons 39 or 40. Random00 (rank 1) hasn't played since season 28 and barman's (rank 2) two latest season are 37 and 30. Bry4N, franz, Csongi and Crash all played under 10 games in their latest season.
For avirex:
Resetting the league would force top players to start from the bottom again and play on a "full-time" basis in order to keep the most active players behind. Doesn't sound that motivating to me. Imo the problem is with the ladder system as it doesn't offer much unless you play "full-time". People are supposed to play here for season wins, not for overall ranking, and qualifying for the playoffs requires high activity. Many players are in working life etc. so you can't expect them to compete with "full-time" players. That's why I would give 3-4 of the eight playoffs spots based on long term ranking (requiring less activity).
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I stand corrected :)
Point was, people say a lot of thing without even trying to look up facts (I mistakenly included TEL). You could ask yourself the question why no one has managed to get the drop on barman's rating if he has been inactive so long. Barman also didn't have many players above him to gain rating points from.
I'm not sure if longterm rating is going to solve this problem, there wouldn't be much reason to play games. I assume you'd still include a minimum activity requirement?
Another option would be using tournament performance rating instead of resetting the seasonal rating
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I'm not sure if longterm rating is going to solve this problem, there wouldn't be much reason to play games. I assume you'd still include a minimum activity requirement?
Overall ranking would be made "last nine seasons ranking". Each player's total points would consist of current season + last eight seasons they have played games:
Player1: current season (#40) + #35, #30, #29, #28, #27, #26, #10, #7
Player2: current season (#40) + #39, #38, #37, #36, #35, #34, #33, #32
Season change: If the latest season with played games remains the same, count one season less:
Player1: current season (#41) + #35, #30, #29, #28, #27, #26, #10, #7
Player2: current season (#41) + #40, #39, #38, #37, #36, #35, #34, #33 #32
edit: 2nd season change: If a player hasn't played for two seasons, make him unranked and freeze his points (so he can come back later with points from six seasons).
Player1 didn't play any games in the season #40 so his total points would now consist of current season + last seven seasons only. This means inactive players drop down in the ranking season after season if they don't play.
There would be also minimum requirement for the season playoffs, let's say 20 games. This requirement would be just to guarantee the player is still active when the playoffs start.
I'm not sure how many games a player would have to play in practice to get a playoff spot but less than 80 games every season for sure.
Edit: A minimum activity requirement (30 games/season?) for a playoff spot might do the same trick alone and give other players opportunity to steal top players' points at the same time.
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Hmm, I wonder what that would do to server demands. After every season, the 9 months rating would have to be recalculated from scratch. MI should be able to answer that question.
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I stand corrected :)
Point was, people say a lot of thing without even trying to look up facts (I mistakenly included TEL). You could ask yourself the question why no one has managed to get the drop on barman's rating if he has been inactive so long. Barman also didn't have many players above him to gain rating points from.
I'm not sure if longterm rating is going to solve this problem, there wouldn't be much reason to play games. I assume you'd still include a minimum activity requirement?
Another option would be using tournament performance rating instead of resetting the seasonal rating
sooo.... you wanted to make a point that people dont look up facts, by throwing out a bunch of lies, that the top 10 are active, and seeing if anyone would catch you??? hello... thats what half of this topic has been about...
Current top 10: Almog, Crash, ZiPpO, Csongi, franz, daiNa, Bry4N, Lukz, barman and Random00.
the only people i would consider active here is csongi, lukz, dainub, and possibly bryan....
and because some others may play a game every now and then, your going to discredit every thing that has been said?? cool... i like your style.
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Hmm, I wonder what that would do to server demands. After every season, the 9 months rating would have to be recalculated from scratch.
I don't know about server demands but they would decrease after 2nd season change because of this primary if-then rule:
If a player hasn't played for two seasons, make him unranked and freeze his points (so he can come back later with points from six/seven seasons).
So after the 2nd season change recalculations would be made for active players only.
There are more simple ways to get almost the same outcome:
1.
- Keep overall ranking system as it is
- Give three of the playoffs spots based on overall ranking. To qualify for the playoffs you have to play at least 40? games.
Pros: Encourage experienced players to keep playing. Cons: No effect on overall standings unless Random00 and some others start playing again.
2.
- Reduce the required number of games to 50? (seasonal requirement)
- Count points from 120? games only. Once you have played 120 games,
- further wins will replace the smallest losses (+40 -> -9, for example)
- further losses will replace the smallest wins (-40 -> +20, for example)
Pros: Encourage semi-active players to play. Cons: No direct effect on overall ranking.
There may be other ways too. As mentioned, the point is to attract players who don't have time or desire to play 80 games per season. Now there is no carrot (except ruined overall ranking) for playing 30-50 games per season, which is part of the reason why some players stop playing.