Thesis: No mobile W:A version -> no future

[Urben]

I hate to bring that up because I am well aware how much work that would be for Deadcode and CyberShadow. But I fear that's how it is.

Alot of people have smartphones.
PCs are not that interesting anymore. (for you and me this is untrue, I know, but you still should be aware about what I mean)

But also alot of WA players would hate to play a cheap ripoff of this game. What we need is a 1:1 mobile version with cross plattform support. Android users should be able to play with PC players.

The silver lining I see is the fact that W:A is barely needing potent hardware to run. So it should be technically possible.

If Deadcode/CyberShadow crowdfund this proect, it would be the first thing I'd help to fund. Impressions?

[WTF-8]

mobile market is more interested in microtransactions rather than huge learning curves

also roping on a touchscreen is something I'd definitely laugh at

and what about WormKit modules support?

[Urben]

It depends on the implemention. But I too hardly see a chance to do advanced roping on such a device. But for Intermediate games it should suffice.
Generally, I imagine large button-outlines over the game which fade away when the own round is over. But Worms uses quite some keys, so some functions might to be excluded to the options tab, like cycling background graphics.

EDIT: ideas for some controls which dont need extra buttons like described above:
swipe right or left edge: weapon menu
swipe top edge: chat

pull+hold worm to left: walking left
pull+hold worm to right: walking right

pull+hold worm up: aim up
pull+hold worm down: aim down


Also, note that what the mobile market is interested in is not the same as what mobile users are interested in. I hate that microtransactions but nobody forces the developer to include that.

WormKit support is surely a big problem here too. I could come up with ideas here now, but none of them are simple enough to consider.

[Xrayez]

I suppose the architecture and code base of W:A is so archaic that it would take quite a lot of time to get it up and running on mobile devices, perhaps even more time than actually writing something completely from scratch...

There's a worms clone I'm working on as a sole developer, mostly as a replacement to playing W:A. The game engine I'm using supports exporting the source code to: Android, iOS, Mac OSX, Windows Universal, Windows Desktop, Linux... and recently even HTML5 for web browsers.

I haven't tried it exporting my project to Android, but I suppose it should run fine without any modifications and fixes.

But... Performance trade-offs is something to consider when developing for both mobile and desktop platforms. Lets be honest, desktops are far more powerful than mobile devices.

[Xrayez]

Android users should be able to play with PC players.

As I know, W:A relies on input-driven simulation. It would be quite difficult if not impossible to implement deterministic, input-driven simulation across different architectures, operating systems, compiler versions, floating point calculations optimization etc... Most games rely on state-based approach instead, where, for instance, the worm's position is recorded every frame and stored in memory, while input-driven implementations allow to fire-off recorded keystrokes at specified frames to fully reconstruct the world's state at any point of gameplay.

[h3oCharles]

yea, control schemes are going to be a pain in the @$$

[Urben]

There's a worms clone I'm working on as a sole developer, mostly as a replacement to playing W:A. The game engine I'm using supports exporting the source code to: Android, iOS, Mac OSX, Windows Universal, Windows Desktop, Linux... and recently even HTML5 for web browsers.

Hey that looks quite good so far! Good job! I've put Godot aside for an unrelated idea too. 

But... Performance trade-offs is something to consider when developing for both mobile and desktop platforms. Lets be honest, desktops are far more powerful than mobile devices.

Of course. All I noticed is that Worms run on every potato PC. But I fear the ARM architecture is a huge factor where the required work is located.

As I know, W:A relies on input-driven simulation. It would be quite difficult if not impossible to implement deterministic, input-driven simulation across different architectures, operating systems, compiler versions, floating point calculations optimization etc... Most games rely on state-based approach instead, where, for instance, the worm's position is recorded every frame and stored in memory, while input-driven implementations allow to fire-off recorded keystrokes at specified frames to fully reconstruct the world's state at any point of gameplay.

I am aware that the input is special compared to other games. Surely I'm naive on how hard it is to implement on Android

[j0e]

As I know, W:A relies on input-driven simulation. It would be quite difficult if not impossible to implement deterministic, input-driven simulation across different architectures, operating systems, compiler versions, floating point calculations optimization etc... Most games rely on state-based approach instead, where, for instance, the worm's position is recorded every frame and stored in memory, while input-driven implementations allow to fire-off recorded keystrokes at specified frames to fully reconstruct the world's state at any point of gameplay.

I am aware that the input is special compared to other games. Surely I'm naive on how hard it is to implement on Android

What he's saying is that Windows and Android (or other OSes) do math differently. Due to rounding errors, even with the exact same code (assuming it would run), the same input of keystrokes on Windows might have a different result on Android. Which would cause desynchronizations and make cross-play impossible.

[Urben]

I get what he means.

I had the impression that Worms is working with integers all the time anyway because it is so much deterministic.

[StepS]

I get what he means.

I had the impression that Worms is working with integers all the time anyway because it is so much deterministic.

The game works with fixed-point numbers, where 16 bits are used to represent the integer part, and 16 bits the decimal part.
Before attempting to port to mobile devices, the game would first have to be ported to other PC platforms such as Mac and Linux. The biggest problem is MFC which is used by the game's frontend. Until those obstacles are resolved, mobile is not a possibility.

[Tomi]

Once i was playing w:a on mobile with friend while travelling. He used ps1 emulator and it went pretty well!

[Ytrojan]

I get what he means.

I had the impression that Worms is working with integers all the time anyway because it is so much deterministic.

The game works with fixed-point numbers, where 16 bits are used to represent the integer part, and 16 bits the decimal part.
Before attempting to port to mobile devices, the game would first have to be ported to other PC platforms such as Mac and Linux. The biggest problem is MFC which is used by the game's frontend. Until those obstacles are resolved, mobile is not a possibility.

Maybe we can base it on one of the console versions? They would be easier to work with!

[h3oCharles]

also roping on a touchscreen is something I'd definitely laugh at

good luck with multitouch m8 xDDD


also shameless bump