The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Worms: Armageddon => General discussion => Topic started by: KoreanRedDragon on October 18, 2011, 04:42 PM
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Recently, Team17 have been a little less quiet (http://forum.team17.com/showthread.php?p=753990#post753990) about their relationship with Worms Armageddon and the plans that they may have for it. BillT17, the community manager, has gone on record (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25806739#post25806739) saying that releasing their older titles on Steam is something that they're looking into. Furthermore, Worms Ultimate Mayhem (http://store.steampowered.com/app/70600/) (the rerelease of Worms 3D and Worms 4: Mayhem in one game) is a sign that doing more than just selling the exact same game, without updating anything, is also an option.
Obviously, this is an opportunity for many of those shiny 4.0 features (http://worms2d.info/4) to make it into WA sooner than 479327 years from now, because it opens up the possibility of Deadcode and CyberShadow being hired to work on it full-time and get, you know, paid for it. If such a rerelease did happen, the game we've been so engaged with for many years now could stand to gain a lot of exposure, resulting in a bigger, different WormNet for us all. But there's not much point thinking about all of this just yet; there are far simpler questions and dilemmas that need to be worked out first...
Whether this 4.0-on-Steam scenario actually plays out is something the Team17 management will have to agree on with Deadcode and CyberShadow, and is not something this poll has anything to do with directly. But one thing we know now is that T17 are concerned about how the community would react to such a rerelease. In the first forum post I linked to up there, Bill admits that when it comes down to it, they are a business and in order for them to commit to something, it has to be profitable. Are we hardcore WA fanatics a strong enough market to be worth selling the game to? Is it realistic to expect that we would be able to spread the word of WA's awesomeness by ourselves? Would we see 4.0 happening as a positive enough event to stand together and defend T17 from angry idiots on the Steam User Forums accusing them of being money-grabbing bastards? Bill's words, not mine, heh.
I've tried to keep this post (and the poll options above) neutral so as to not influence the outcome, but I suspect that the results themselves won't matter much in the end anyway. A discussion on the matter might prove a bit more insightful, though, and give those of us pushing for 4.0 to happen a better idea of how the current community would like things to be dealt with. Also maybe some ammunition with which to persuade T17 to finally do the right thing!
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I'd like to say so many things about this issue, but I've said so much already I wouldn't know how to order it and where to begin
but hey, we'll see how T17 handles all this, potentially, it could be awesome for us worms fans... potentially.
releasing WA on steam for a low price, with an enhanced online mode, achievements and whatever bonus is profit assured, and I can't understand how this isn't obvious for them
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i'll start by saying what I said in the team17 thread:
"a re-release of W:A on Steam brings so much good to the table. an easier way to buy/install the game with Steam solves so many people's problems with obtaining/maintaining this great game.
offering this service alone justifies the cost I feel.
now, other current W:A players can voice their opinion, but for me personally, I would gladly and respectfully buy the game again if it helps Deadcode and Cybershadow for all the hard work that they have done to improve this wonderful game. heck, if you can tie a W:A re-release on Steam with a future update from them, that's a very easy sell for current W:A players and perfectly justifiable.
sure W:A currently functions very well now, but buying the game again through Steam brings so much potential:
easier to buy the game, install the game
reward all the extra hard work put into this game
expand the community, very likely larger than what W2:A has
anyone calling (Team17) "money grabbers" forevermore would be misguided, and I doubt many of these people even exist (less than 1%). too many people just want to play W:A again, and many of us current players would like to see W:A expand and reward those who have made W:A what it is today.
I understand (Team17) saying nothing will happen quickly, but the fact that you're thinking about it is great I am willing to help in any way possible, and I'm sure others would too."
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oh and, they should hire MonkeyIsland too ^^
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oh and, they should hire MonkeyIsland too ^^
(http://forum.team17.com/images/newsmilies/eek.gif)
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Honestly, I'm hopping nothing from wa. The post is pretty clear for me:
"We don't want to admit it officially but we lost any interest in wa".
Read the quote carefully if you don't believe me:
I've been thinking about how best to answer this question considering that it will be over analysed and quoted back at me for as long as I live
In my opinion, it just mean that there's nothing and there'll be nothing done but he doesn't want us to blame him about it.
Having said that, the "it's complicated" answer is a good one. We love WA and we are really proud of how the game is regarded not only by Worms fans but also by gamers in general and the work that both Deadcode and Cybershadow have done has been amazing.
Now we have a desire here to make our back catalog of games available to a wider audience and in an ideal world that would mean doing something with WA too. But Team17 is out to make money and WA does not make us money any more and if we decided to re release on say Steam then I imagine comments like "money grabbing *******s" etc would flow forevermore.
As he is saying, wa is not a source of money and they are afraid of the audience feedback if they take the risk to re-release it. Why would they take such a risk.
Why would the current WA players go out an buy the game again when it currently functions very well now?
Now, this is not to say that we've given up any hope of sorting something out and I have regular chats with Cybershadow talking about different ideas, I just don't expect that we will see anything happen very quickly.
After this, it's clear that nothing will happen, don't be stupid :)
Sorry I can't say any more on it really.
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Recently, Team17 have been a little less quiet (http://forum.team17.com/showthread.php?p=753990#post753990) about their relationship with Worms Armageddon and the plans that they may have for it. BillT17, the community manager, has gone on record (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25806739#post25806739) saying that releasing their older titles on Steam is something that they're looking into. Furthermore, Worms Ultimate Mayhem (http://store.steampowered.com/app/70600/) (the rerelease of Worms 3D and Worms 4: Mayhem in one game) is a sign that doing more than just selling the exact same game, without updating anything, is also an option.
Are we hardcore WA fanatics a strong enough market to be worth selling the game to?
are u kidding me? we are some hundred geeks, this is no market. (the market would be all people who plyayed the game when it was released and forgot it)
since we are not the main target for a release we cant expect much from it. the goal of every release is to make profit, and you cant make profit with a small group of hardcoregeeks. (just ask some trekkies about the latest star trek movie ;D)
dont get me wrong, i really would be happy about a release (even i dont like steam), mostly because our community woult become a bit bigger. but with a economic pov i cant see any sense in a release.
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Recently, Team17 have been a little less quiet (http://forum.team17.com/showthread.php?p=753990#post753990) about their relationship with Worms Armageddon and the plans that they may have for it. BillT17, the community manager, has gone on record (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25806739#post25806739) saying that releasing their older titles on Steam is something that they're looking into. Furthermore, Worms Ultimate Mayhem (http://store.steampowered.com/app/70600/) (the rerelease of Worms 3D and Worms 4: Mayhem in one game) is a sign that doing more than just selling the exact same game, without updating anything, is also an option.
Are we hardcore WA fanatics a strong enough market to be worth selling the game to?
are u kidding me? we are some hundred geeks, this is no market. (the market would be all people who plyayed the game when it was released and forgot it)
since we are not the main target for a release we cant expect much from it. the goal of every release is to make profit, and you cant make profit with a small group of hardcoregeeks. (just ask some trekkies about the latest star trek movie ;D)
dont get me wrong, i really would be happy about a release (even i dont like steam), mostly because our community woult become a bit bigger. but with a economic pov i cant see any sense in a release.
there's a huge market who would gladly buy WA in mass for around 10 dollars to play online with their old friends who used to play.
A huge market, part of it created by steam and their support for indie low budget releases of addictive low hardware usage games.
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are u kidding me? we are some hundred geeks, this is no market. (the market would be all people who plyayed the game when it was released and forgot it)
since we are not the main target for a release we cant expect much from it. the goal of every release is to make profit, and you cant make profit with a small group of hardcoregeeks. (just ask some trekkies about the latest star trek movie ;D)
dont get me wrong, i really would be happy about a release (even i dont like steam), mostly because our community woult become a bit bigger. but with a economic pov i cant see any sense in a release.
Well, actually, we have stats (http://stats.worms2d.info/) for this. During the last two years, on average, 14977 unique nicknames join WormNet every month. Even if we assume that half of these are people's alternate nicknames (think snoopers, aliasing and nickname changes), even if we don't count those who play offline or not anymore, even if everyone else completely fails to notice that WA has become available on Steam, that still probably covers the development costs if it was just David and Vladimir working on the game for a year. Anything more would be profit. My math is approximate and I'm probably leaving things out (not sure about the cut Valve take from Steam game sales), but somehow this feels relevant anyway.
Steam stats (http://store.steampowered.com/stats/) on the other hand tell us that in order to get on the list of 100 most popular games there (out of several thousands), you need to reach around 400 people playing, both online and offline, at the same time. Currently, neither of the two Worms games available there are able to pull it off. I don't know if WA could do it, but there's no denying that the game has a pretty faithful following; we don't exactly switch to a new game every two weeks, do we... :D
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when Worms2:Armageddon released on Steam, lots of people spoke how disappointing it was compared to W:A.
lots more thought the same thing but never spoke up, they just stopped playing that game.
so of course there is a market out there. even casual fans of worms from back in the day would find something new to like even just from the features W:A has updated since 1999, the release.
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and let me highlight the importance of Steam as a game enhancer.
Goes without saying wormnet would become much more user friendly, ranks (or similar) could see a great opportunity to come back, buddy list as it comes with steam itself. Achievements, a game like WA could benefit incredibly from this, specially the casual public who isn't much interested in league competition.
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are u kidding me? we are some hundred geeks, this is no market. (the market would be all people who plyayed the game when it was released and forgot it)
since we are not the main target for a release we cant expect much from it. the goal of every release is to make profit, and you cant make profit with a small group of hardcoregeeks. (just ask some trekkies about the latest star trek movie ;D)
dont get me wrong, i really would be happy about a release (even i dont like steam), mostly because our community woult become a bit bigger. but with a economic pov i cant see any sense in a release.
I'll have to agree to that i'm afraid... not sure what would be a financial success for Team 17 though... they don't seem to be that big of a company, still, the market has changed, nowadays you won't be able to get many kids to buy a game with such odd (compared to nowadays standards) graphics and a gameplay which actually requires to lots of pratice to perfect it.
Edit: Just wanted to add that i think Team 17 have some real weirdo marketing guys sitting in their company... first they change a perfect 2D gameplay to some not working 3D stuff, then, they go "back to the roots" and publish a 2D Worms which a lot of people waited for, but against all well meant advices, they did a complete (cheap) rewrite of it with physics which are so worse that it's not enjoyable to play at all anymore and now they plan to re-publish W:A on Steam but only "if the money is ok". Seriously, those guys are either dreaming or completely incompetent imo...
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yea, like minecraft, who would buy that game with it's awful graphics.
come on chakkman, if a game is good enough, with enough of an enthusiastic fanbase, the graphics argument is just not valid anymore.
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What are the consequences and changes for current situation if this happens? KRD, U have mentioned in your 4th poll option that it would split the community.. Why is that? Does 4.0 automatically kills present WormNet and all that goes with it (TUS, other leagues..) or there's a way to have them both?
To me this is like when U are a hardcore fan of some band and U have listen their music for 12 yrs.. U have bought every album, old ones are still on vinyls, and the band does not play anymore.. U have your nice collection and U try to spread the word to youngsters how this band is really awesome but it's hard since there are so many new shiny "music" as Lady Gaga or w/e.. (who wants to play an old 2D game when there's all the fancy 3D games around..)
Then the few remaining alive band members decides to make and sell re-produced release as a collection with new shiny package and few extras maybe.. So, as a hardcore fan of course that I'll buy it and that I would be happy about it.. Of course I'll go to youngsters and tell them "hey, here's a re-release, a collection, U have it all in one package, buy it, it's a treasure".. So, there's no doubt in it.
I just don't get BillT17. I understand that he's careful what will ppl think and will they think "money-grabbers". But hey, what's wrong with his conscience, they are not selling some TV-shop "Lose-weight-in-7-days-bullshit" for only 29.99$.. They sell quality, they re-sell ingenious game that is worth and that has been proven good after all these years..
I believe that we all would be happy if we knew that ppl like Deadcode and CyberShadow, who have put so much effort and time into this, would finally earn some money out of it.. Why not, they deserves it..
Then again, I would listen to that new re-released DVD collection of my favorite band for some time, but I know that from time to time I would like to put a needle on a vinyl again and enjoy it's origins.. So, do we have to choose between those two or there's any other way?
I just wouldn't like to see TUS and all of the MonkeyIsland effort and time that he has spent for W:A to just go to waste like that.. That would be the only unfair part in a whole story, imho. I guess there can't be both (?), so the best thing would be if it could be merged all into one somehow. From my point of view DC and CS have credits for game being alive and updated and MI and TUS have credits for wormy community being alive and active for last few years at least...
I'm all for 4.0 as long as no one has been left behind, as long there's no splits.. So, as franz have said, they should hire MI too. ^^
p.s. not to mention that wmdb must be part of it too!
p.s.#2 I've voted "yes" btw. ;x
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@ ropa, franz, krd
i quoted "hardcore wa fanatics" for a reason. i just answered your question.
i know there is a huge market and we would benifit from a release.but the "hardcore wa fanatics" are not the target audience.
afaik t17 already tried to catch the same market with worms 2 armageddon and wr. i got no idea about stats of this 2 games, but i think it did not work as good as they expected. i only can guess about the reasons.
a) the gametype isnt working anymore. (would be bad for a release of wa)
b) wrong marketing
c) the games were just bad, many people were disappointed after buying it. (this would be the great chance for wa, but keep in mind its hard to get disappointed people back)
imo: if t17 really wants to make some money the should focus on something new, if they want some profit with a classic 2 d worms they should re release wa.
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What are the consequences and changes for current situation if this happens? KRD, U have mentioned in your 4th poll option that it would split the community.. Why is that? Does 4.0 automatically kills present WormNet and all that goes with it (TUS, other leagues..) or there's a way to have them both?
I was hoping to leave this discussion for a little later, but just to answer that one paragraph (of a nice post that I enjoyed reading): I think you pointed out the problem yourself.
One option is to try and leave WA 3.x alone and have 4.x compete with it. Separate WormNets, separate communities, separate leagues and other projects. This lets players choose which one they prefer, but it means that 4.x would never be as great as it could be and also that 3.x would lose at least a part of its player base when 4.0 was released. Results in split communities, which is never a good thing for online games.
The other option is to try and take as much good as we can from 3.x and implement it into 4.0, build things like map and replay databases into the game itself, and try to put the same people who have been running the WA community so far in charge of things there as well, to the extent that Team17 would be happy with. This second option might involve killing the 3.x WormNet off, though, but as far as I'm concerned, it probably is the healthier of the two available.
Is there an option in between? I'm not sure. If there is, I find it hard to see.
Would TUS be able to survive the second option it if meant that it suddenly wasn't the game's main provider of rankings and competition, but only a sort of website and community of friends? That's really down to the people who consider it their home, I suppose. But certainly I think the competitive aspect of WA is important enough to make it part of the game itself, something so seamlessly integrated into the experience that everyone who owns the game will know about it. That is, after all, what WA updates were originally about, bringing rankings and secure logins back.
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They tried making new games, they kind of failed. The newer games weren't much of a success from what I saw. Re-releasing WA would be a gamble, I gotta admit. There's no way to tell how many sales it'll get them. We're all biased in our opinions because we love this game so it's easy to say "do it" - but in the end, what do they have to lose? The development cost wouldn't be as high as for a new game, it's easier for them to earn money if they don't invest as much, or at least they'd lose less money should the game not get as many sales as they wanted it to get.
Anyway, I'm all for it.
Yours biasedly, darKz. :P
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I'll recall your old argument KRD: we have enough flamers, fools, etc.. on W:A. :)
If there will be a real moderation on it, then I'm ok with it, but only in this case.
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id pay for it. hell i paid for worm and worms 2:armageddon from XBL for 25$, and worms reloaded for 10 or 20$ or whatever it cost. I could drop 10$ in an instant. Count me in. Petition on team17 forums, anyone?
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Team17 have already released Worms 1, Worms Blast and Worms Pinball on steam!
Maybe W2, WA and WWP are next in line :)
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One thing I see about this, what about lazy competitive gamers? Would they stick with WA for long? They would try playing Leagues, and let's face it, get beat ridiculously with our level of skill/experience, would they be ok with this or will they get frustrated by this and quit playing because they think "these guys have been playing this for 5-12 years, we have NO chance..."
But then again, that's just classic schemes isn't it?
Kaos for example is kind of new, and is gaining popularity quite fast.
To be honest, worms has something for all varities of Gamers:
Tactical and strategic thinkers - Elite/T17/Intermediate etc.
Casual easy fun - Hysteria/Shopper and some of those easy/luck Worm Olympic type schemes.
For people who like physical skill, hand eye coordination etc - Roper/TTRR/WxW etc.
For accuracy type Gamers, eg, online pool, Sniping etc - BnG/Bungee Race/Battle Race etc, an example of this, in RL I love playing Pool, Golf, Darts, things that require a keen eye and patience.
If we could somehow emphasize this that worms isn't just a silly game, and theres a whole variety of Schemes to suit most Gamers needs and skills/interests we would definately pick up more players.
When someone who doesn't know what Worms is or how it operates, seeing even Mablak do his best ever run in a TTRR doesn't look impressive, until you realise and KNOW how hard it is to operate and control the Rope, the same applies to other schemes.
How can we advertise this issue? How can we show something like very nice Roping in a TTRR, or very nice BnG shots, or a very very crucial and perfectly executed turn in an Elite so that someone who doesn't know what Worms is will think, "Wow, that was awesome!"
The 1st time I seen cool Roping, I didn't know it was cool, because I hadn't used the Rope before so I didn't realise how much skill is required, if someone makes something look easy when you see it for the 1st time, like Mablak doing TTRR, or Random playing Elite, or me playing BnG, do you think this effects people's opinion if it's cool or not? It's hard to explain what I mean with this, so I hope you can understand it lol.
One thing is for sure, if this does happen and we get thousands of active players, we should all do our part and teach the "noobs" how to play good.
It's really exciting that's for sure :)
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Keep on dreaming guys. Even if WA gets released on Steam, T17 will find some brilliant way to screw it up.
I enjoyed W:R, but the servers sucked ass and the online ranking was a big joke (not to mention the bug-fest in the game itself). I'm glad WA has its own community geeks to improve the game.. rather than those nitwits at t17 headquarters. ::)
Wormnet is nice the way it is right now. Big communities aren't all that great, it stimulates cheating, lame behaviour and aliasing. It's nice to have a community where we all know each other, it's cosy :) And it's good that you don't have to play at least 8 hours a day to still be considered a pro.
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HHC words. You said everything's needed.
Want more players ? Word of mouth.
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I would pay even a 100$ for a new release of w:a. But that shouldn't count since I'm too obsessed with this game. :)
The problem I see with Team17 is that they are not following their own experience for their future games. w:r is released like some other company saw Team17's worms series and made a worms game out of their own. The physics are a cheap-copy of w:a. (wwp in other hand was a game continuing w:a's path)
You shouldn't forget that w:a v4 is still w:a. A new release of w:a on steam is still w:a as a 12 year old game to Team17. We're talking about a "company" which needs money to survive. I'd wish the owner was a billionaire who just wants to expand this game though.
Is there an option in between? I'm not sure. If there is, I find it hard to see.
Would TUS be able to survive the second option it if meant that it suddenly wasn't the game's main provider of rankings and competition, but only a sort of website and community of friends? That's really down to the people who consider it their home, I suppose. But certainly I think the competitive aspect of WA is important enough to make it part of the game itself, something so seamlessly integrated into the experience that everyone who owns the game will know about it. That is, after all, what WA updates were originally about, bringing rankings and secure logins back.
We shouldn't even bother with option one. It will be wwp all over again. 3.x community will be abandoned, all moving to 4.x.
If 4.x is ever gonna happen (I'm still in doubt), it must be the future of w:a. The future of TUS or let's say how TUS will respond to this event mainly depends on how 4.x staff want to include TUS in the project. WN ranks, replay, map, scheme database of any kind, could be built in TUS since TUS is there already in a way. WN could fetch the ranks from TUS. Replays could get stored on TUS. When you talk about TUS go into the struggle-mode to survive, you're assuming v4 starting completely fresh, dumping all existing projects? doesn't that sound like Team17 policy?
Oh btw, there's a persian story about 2 people who find a horseshoe and fight on who gets to ride the horse first. Aren't we in the horseshoe phase yet? :)
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The physic engine was mostly due to Morton who doesn't work at Team17 since short before WA was relased AFAIK.
Team17 made WWP, following HHC's argumentation and it wasn't much of a success AFAIK.
What makes WA great it's its depth in its physics, it's what makes the learning curve so steep and what makes the game so complex with new schemes every year.
We, as hardcore wormers, understand this, but ultimately, the lack of such depth, ignored by most worm users, is not going to make the game sell more or less.
I didn't buy any worms game beyond WWP because I knew the physics wouldn't be complex enough to improve the WA experience, I'm sure many more people proceeded as I did, but for every one of us there's 10 more that will buy a new worm games to see sheeps explode.
So yeah, team17 won't make this like we would like unless they give DC and CS all the power or unless they start listening (albeit not to most of you lot)
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you're assuming v4 starting completely fresh, dumping all existing projects? doesn't that sound like Team17 policy?
I see no point in having features in a website that you could have in the frontend of the game itself.
What would be useful is having it in both places, so you can check your ranks/standings from a mobile device/@work
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Didn't a shitty WA re-release already come out? WWP anyone?
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I liked WWP lol.
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I liked WWP lol.
other than all the features already included in WA, what did you like so much, specifically? wormpot? super rope?
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I liked WWP lol.
other than all the features already included in WA, what did you like so much, specifically? wormpot? super rope?
I loved the Roping on WWP, it was slightly different to WA, which made things interesting and different, also yeah, I loved the Wormpot, not keen on Super Rope though.
I just generally liked the game, the main reason I didn't stick with WWP is because you couldn't minimise during game.
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I see no point in having features in a website that you could have in the frontend of the game itself.
What would be useful is having it in both places, so you can check your ranks/standings from a mobile device/@work
While having in both would be a great idea. Having those features in the game itself won't be as flexible as running them in a website. Not to mention a website bring people/community together more.
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I see no point in having features in a website that you could have in the frontend of the game itself.
What would be useful is having it in both places, so you can check your ranks/standings from a mobile device/@work
While having in both would be a great idea. Having those features in the game itself won't be as flexible as running them in a website. Not to mention a website bring people/community together more.
yeah I understand MI. But by having game features in third party you are losing potential usage. I don't think TUS will die, and if it does it won't be because of 4.0. or Steam. But do not worry. I mean, there's no reason why if per example 4.0 comes with a map database people could still use TUS because it has richer features and is updated more often, or who knows, TUS could be WA's map repository.
There's too many uncertainties at this point to know how 4.0 will affect TUS, but I'm certain of one thing. 4.0 will be an improvement for WA even if it hinders TUS current status.
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But do not worry. I mean, there's no reason why if per example 4.0 comes with a map database people could still use TUS because it has richer features and is updated more often, or who knows, TUS could be WA's map repository.
I don't worry actually. I made TUS when there were many things threatening TUS activity. Not that now I'm cocky about this, but I know how to pull TUS together if things go wrong.
There's too many uncertainties at this point to know how 4.0 will affect TUS, but I'm certain of one thing. 4.0 will be an improvement for WA even if it hinders TUS current status.
Indeed 4.0 will be a nice improvement. I guess about TUS, I was kinda proposing a merge with WN. This month will be the 3rd time TUS is passing over a million visits. I'm sure both WN and TUS could benefit some kind of a merge, not to mention many "web" works will be on me, which will free up more time for game developers.
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1 million hits a month, that's nice man, congrats :)
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What's WA 4.0? Some mystical thing that doesn't even exist. TUS is real and cool :P
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(https://i.imgur.com/qDQeQMf.png)
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look at this man x)
http://worms2d.info/4
ty, but I see only question marks everywhere ;D
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look at this man x)
http://worms2d.info/4
ty, but I see only question marks everywhere ;D
http://worms2d.info/4.0_Facts (http://worms2d.info/4.0_Facts)
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...
but I'm certain of one thing. 4.0 will be an improvement for WA even if it hinders TUS current status.
- It will...
- It will...
- It will...
- It will...
- It will...
...
Dunno if KRD wrote that text on worms2d.info or who did, but (as in ropa sentence too) correctly would be to change all that "will" into "would".
Or sorry if I don't know something that U might do, but are U are sure it will ever come out at all? If not, then definitely "would" is more appropriate..
http://wormsng.com/ (http://wormsng.com/)
Is this still accurate?
Btw, what happened to FoW idea? Failed?
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Dunno if KRD wrote that text on worms2d.info or who did, but (as in ropa sentence too) correctly would be to change all that "will" into "would".
I stated the link because it describes facts. This means that these things are already decided regarding W:A 4.0, please read the beginning of that article. And yes, the 4.0 will come out for sure (as the article itself also states - It will be ready this decade).
And what do you mean regarding FoW? This is a PX CTF scheme.
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It will be ready this decade
:)
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The physic engine was mostly due to Andy Davison who doesn't work at Team17 since short before WA was relased AFAIK.
Team17 made WWP, following HHC's argumentation and it wasn't much of a success AFAIK.
What makes WA great it's its depth in its physics, it's what makes the learning curve so steep and what makes the game so complex with new schemes every year.
We, as hardcore wormers, understand this, but ultimately, the lack of such depth, ignored by most worm users, is not going to make the game sell more or less.
I didn't buy any worms game beyond WWP because I knew the physics wouldn't be complex enough to improve the WA experience, I'm sure many more people proceeded as I did, but for every one of us there's 10 more that will buy a new worm games to see sheeps explode.
So yeah, team17 won't make this like we would like unless they give DC and CS all the power or unless they start listening (albeit not to most of you lot)
Actually the reason I never bought a 3D Worms wasn't the depth, it was just that roping was so limited or undeveloped that it ruined 90% of the fun for me.
No "professional" roping, no Anubis. :D
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@StepS, I was not referring to U and this have nothing to do with U, so stfhhhu and go make some PX 5.x or something...
U're another story, diff subject.
;x
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whatever
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And yes, the 4.0 will come out for sure (as the article itself also states - It will be ready this decade).
That's cool, do you happen to know if it'll be in 2012 or 2019? ;D
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everyone should be voting for the top option btw, just incase Team17 check this thread at some stage
(no joke, please vote for the top option regardless)
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Ehehe, I doubt a hundred purchases up or down are going to sway the will of T17 either way; their other games sell in hundreds of thousands of copies. The poll was only really put there to hopefully point the discussion in a meaningful direction.
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their other games sell in hundreds of thousands of copies.
No shit? I always thought they would not sell too well at all... at least their 3D titles weren't even nearly as crowded online as w:a or wwp at it's high time. Always like 11 players max in the lobby or something. :P But maybe those titles aren't really about online play, don't know...
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their other games sell in hundreds of thousands of copies.
No shit? I always thought they would not sell too well at all... at least their 3D titles weren't even nearly as crowded online as w:a or wwp at it's high time. Always like 11 players max in the lobby or something. :P But maybe those titles aren't really about online play, don't know...
I guess KRD is talking about the micro transaction games. W2:R, Worms Golf etc
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WA is a cult game (generally all 2D Worms series). Nowadays I can see that old and well known titles among gamers are being released to download for free - it's GTA (http://www.rockstargames.com/classics/) series (I and II) or Empire Earth (http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/empire_earth_gold_edition) and it expands. I don't actually believe that, without advertising campaign and hiring a team to work (which obviously cost a lot), WA will experience another succes (and yet it's doubtful). It's not worth to put effort to bring Worms alive since it'd be a risky operation from Team17 stuff - I mean, the money invested in the revival could simply not reflect with a wide coverage.
Instead, with WA free to download, it makes new prospects for increasing the activity with much lower cost - advertising cost would limit, because the goal isn't anymore to gain profit from the game, you just give people an opportunity to download a cult game for free which isn't supported anymore by Team17 and doesn't make any profit anyway. Why not then? CS and DC are doing great work with WA, it's passion. I truly believe one day they get rewarded for the amazing job they constantly do, for free...
Releasing a non giving any profits title for free by such company as Team17 could unite quite an amount of new/old players you desperately look for. It doesn't mean to make profit from this, except CS and DC case, they obligatory should be lavishly paid.
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Hi guys! Worms 2 was recently released as digital download in GOG.com.
Here's the link http://www.gog.com/en/news/release_worms_2 And someone in the comments wrote this this:
Looks like Steam will be getting Armageddon soon: http://cdr.thebronasium.com/sub/15922
:o Wow!
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hope it's not fake :)
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Wouldn't we know something about it beforehand, tho?
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Dunno, if that's true it says there is no pre-order so that could explain the silence.
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I think it would be a terrible idea...The wa servers are not free and can only allow for so many users...If we had an influx of noobs....
Nope i am happy with the game as it stands..I hope that legends like MrE/Zippo/f4st and that crazy author for that leauge were everyone was banned returned...Thoose are true ppl i would want back :D Just imagine the drama <3 Oh well...
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I dunno, I used to like all that stuff but it's kind of boring after you had a long break from W:A community (not just the game). They have been gone for even longer now (I guess) and I would assume it's kind of the same. Didn't even Komo calm down for a bit after he had a longer break? I am sure it's the same for most.
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http://store.steampowered.com/app/217200
:O :O :O :O :O
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edit: n/m
When you pre-order Worms: Rev you get W:A for free.
I think the pre-order atm is still bugged (I get an error saying I already own one of the games when I do), but it will be fixed soon.
Anyway. This is awesome news for us. The next month we will be seeing new faces on the servers of people who want to play Worms: Rev but are 'stuck' with WA for the time being.
And yeah, I reckon that afterwards W:A will become available for everyone, for like 2 to 5 euro. Which is also nice if you broke the CD ;)
edit: that is, if you can go online with this WA version ::) We'll see about that..
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This is indeed very intriguing news. I wonder if they modified W:A in any way. (perhaps made it more steam-friendly or...? )
Hopefully people who bought it can go online with it, otherwise it ruins the whole point.
HHC, please notify us about any progress.
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Someone pre-order Worms Rev already and tell us if that version is connected to "our" servers, is offline only or have their own servers. :P
It has to be online too, btw. If you check digital offline only titles on Steam they don't require internet connection. It says in the minimum system speccs that you need internet connection. Question is, which patch version and/or different server.
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It uses the same WormNET server.
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Thanks CS!
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nice :) posted a thread on the new Worms Armageddon Steam board
edit: ahh sry Peja, van linked below, but I'll again here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/217200/discussions
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nice :) posted a thread on the new Worms Armageddon Steam board
why u didnt link?
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http://steamcommunity.com/app/217200/discussions
and it's 3.6.31.0. woooooooo
Yes, the Steam version is backwards-compatible with .31.0. The Steam version and the disc version will in the future be synchronised so the version numbers are the same, but the current steam version hasn't yet been released for the disc version of the game. It only contains a few minor bugfixes, as well as a new renderer which does a lot more in software so will in the future be a key part in getting the game to work well on Windows 8 (where the old hardware directdraw functions that the game uses are emulated very badly).
Great news! Now for it to become a separately purchasable game and we're all set.
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and it's 3.6.31.0. woooooooo
it's 3.6.31.2b, not 3.6.31.0. RubberWorm will be updated once we get access to the game
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Great shit, new blood for the community! 8) Just a bit of a disappointment for those who thought W:R would be better than a 14 year old game?
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The noobs can go to wow as far as i care...We do not need them here...Cybershadow this would be an incredible stupid idea..
Btw how come it was so easy for me to evade the ban you posed on me ? I didn't even have to use any programs to conceal my IP...I can't believe it was that easy and too such a tremendous ammount of time to fix..Were you aware of how i did it ? Or did it take you that long to figure it out ?
Nonetheless i do think a permanent ban is abit much just for playing with komos mind..Care to explain ?
In addition..am i the first person to ever be permanently banned for impostering other players ? Because that would be no small feat..Just wondering..
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Encourage noobs to play WA through steam and it will be great for the community. We were all noobs once remember.
Off Topic.
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It sounds like Doubletime is forgetting that he was once a noob at this game. Seriously get over yourself man.
Imagine a human being going to their computer with a smiley face, deciding to put down their other games to give worms armageddon a try for the first time. They log on with anticipation and excitement and then suddenly some c@#! called Doubletime starts telling them to go away because they are not welcome. What a sad story.
Also, why are you obsessed with your naughty behaviour?
You are posting on the forum which is what you wanted. You've been asking for it for ages and now you're trying to be a smart arse and provoking. It's not going to help your situation.
If I was banned from a worms forum I would actually be a little embarrassed. You seem proud. Just to let you know that for a normal functioning adult in the real world, being proud of getting banned on the internet is up there with some of the gayest things ever.
Giggling inside with excitement at being a naughty internet user is so gay that I actually cringe at the thought of it. Seriously man. Are you like 12?
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On topic
These recent developments are really awesome. Nice one everyone who made it happen!
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Encourage noobs to play WA through steam and it will be great for the community. We were all noobs once remember.
Off Topic.
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It sounds like Doubletime is forgetting that he was once a noob at this game. Seriously get over yourself man.
Imagine a human being going to their computer with a smiley face, deciding to put down their other games to give worms armageddon a try for the first time. They log on with anticipation and excitement and then suddenly some c@#! called Doubletime starts telling them to go away because they are not welcome. What a sad story.
Also, why are you obsessed with your naughty behaviour?
You are posting on the forum which is what you wanted. You've been asking for it for ages and now you're trying to be a smart arse and provoking. It's not going to help your situation.
If I was banned from a worms forum I would actually be a little embarrassed. You seem proud. Just to let you know that for a normal functioning adult in the real world, being proud of getting banned on the internet is up there with some of the gayest things ever.
Giggling inside with excitement at being a naughty internet user is so gay that I actually cringe at the thought of it. Seriously man. Are you like 12?
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On topic
These recent developments are really awesome. Nice one everyone who made it happen!
I laughed so hard at your post I almost fell off my chair. Well played sir. ;D
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and it's 3.6.31.0. woooooooo
it's 3.6.31.2b, not 3.6.31.0. RubberWorm will be updated once we get access to the game
Does this mean we will get an update to wa soon ?
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Doubletime you were banned for how long? 18 months? I didn't remove your ban, TUS2 reset the bans and you were free. I didn't put it back, I said to myself maybe you could see it as some luck and opportunity to act decent, and more interestingly, the whole community liked to see what you would do this time, not even one person asked me to for you to be banned again. Now you're bragging you could bypass your WN bans? You're getting smart with CS? Hello? Are you seeing yourself?
Let me clear something for you, CS, DC or any other web admin like me, we are not proud of banning people. We restrict people who abuse the community. We don't care/we couldn't care less about people bypassing the bans. It is not a competition for us. The ban doesn't mean "you're challenged to bypass", it means "you've been misusing the system". I've raised your warning level for 50%. I think you know where this is going. Choose your way.
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and it's 3.6.31.0. woooooooo
it's 3.6.31.2b, not 3.6.31.0. RubberWorm will be updated once we get access to the game
Does this mean we will get an update to wa soon ?
I wanna know, if its true, that a steam version makes a WA4.0 release more probably? Aiii!
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Joschi: I don't think it will speed up the 4.0 development. But it's a great step to make WA more popular again for now. :)
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Obviously, this is an opportunity for many of those shiny 4.0 features (http://worms2d.info/4) to make it into WA sooner than 479327 years from now, because it opens up the possibility of Deadcode and CyberShadow being hired to work on it full-time and get, you know, paid for it. If such a rerelease did happen, the game we've been so engaged with for many years now could stand to gain a lot of exposure, resulting in a bigger, different WormNet for us all.
I referred to this. Let's see, what near futur will bring. I will buy the standalone W:A steam version, to give T17 a sign, that there is still a market which craves updates! :D
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Yeah, they'll have to get hired and paid first, then of course they could work full-time on our beloved game and in consequence speed up the pace. WA on Steam could lead to that, let's all cross our fingers.
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Does this mean we will get an update to wa soon ?
I would guess that it is only a small fix to retain compatibility, because the W:A Steam version will differ slightly from the one you can buy in stores (i guess). Usually the folder structure is different and stuff, no cd check, and so on.
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Yeah, they'll have to get hired and paid first, then of course they could work full-time on our beloved game and in consequence speed up the pace. WA on Steam could lead to that, let's all cross our fingers.
and why should team17 hire 2 guys to work on an over 10 years old game? doesnt sound like a logical step for me. i mean i cant see any gain for the company in this case.
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fck gain and money
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Yeah, the small update is coming within few days. (confirmed on irc).
As much as I'd love to get my hands on 4.0 earlier, I don't think that porting wa to steam is going to change anything. And that's OKAY.
Also, don't buy a worms revolution pack, wait for the stand alone version to show more support for the game... I guess.
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Also, don't buy a worms revolution pack, wait for the stand alone version to show more support for the game... I guess.
Have they confirmed there will be a standalone version?
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Nope. And don't think they will for now. Some people are even pre-ordering W:R just to get their hands on W:A. If they say it will be available seperately (for like 5$) after it will hurt their current sales.
I don't see why it wouldn't be though. They already got the game on steam, would be a waste if they were to remove it again in a month, right after W:R release.
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Also, don't buy a worms revolution pack, wait for the stand alone version to show more support for the game... I guess.
Exactly!
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http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2934316
At this point, Worms Armageddon is currently only available when you pre-purchase Worms Revolution (it's just one part of the many pre-purchase exclusives and you'll get to play it straight away for anyone wondering). We've no plans to release it seperately this year.
I already bought the Revolution/WA pack when it became available, but >:(
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When you think Team17 can't fail more (making subpar Worms games imo) they even resist the chance to release the fan-favourite Worms game on the biggest digital distribution platform. Incredible.
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It says 'currently'. They want to milk the W:R cow first. Trust me, they will release it in the very first months of the next year.
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If that's true what you say, then that doesn't speak for W:R as a game. If they fear W:A could take away profit from W:R. Not that it would surprise me though. :D
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Trust me, they will release it in the very first months of the next year.
Yep, it would be kinda pointless to first modify the game to make it run on the Steam platform, and then take it off again. I'm pretty sure they will be selling it for like 5-10 € after the W:R sale period. I don't see that as fearing to take away profit from W:R either, obvious that they want to promote their new game rather than the old game. :)
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http://stats.worms2d.info/uahistory.html
There you can see the new steam visitors (scroll down, bottom right; "Others" = Steam users). Nice to see, in %, how many visitors Steam brings us.
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KILL the steam WA!! I'm sure it will cause enormus problems in the future (like now in Kurnik pl if u play makao with java with the person who plays on 'NO JAVA" beta...) grr
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KILL the steam WA!! I'm sure it will cause enormus problems in the future (like now in Kurnik pl if u play makao with java with the person who plays on 'NO JAVA" beta...) grr
You sure you know what you're talking about..?
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KILL the steam WA!! I'm sure it will cause enormus problems in the future (like now in Kurnik pl if u play makao with java with the person who plays on 'NO JAVA" beta...) grr
lol what you're saying is bull**** but to your happiness, WA on steam is expected to be timed out after worms revolution release and there are currently no plans to sell that separately
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KILL the steam WA!! I'm sure it will cause enormus problems in the future (like now in Kurnik pl if u play makao with java with the person who plays on 'NO JAVA" beta...) grr
lol what you're saying is bull**** but to your happiness, WA on steam is expected to be timed out after worms revolution release and there are currently no plans to sell that separately
hope not. we'll see.
I'll still buy it standalone if/when they do. I'm not pre-purchasing W:Rev unless I hear good things after release.
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KILL the steam WA!! I'm sure it will cause enormus problems in the future (like now in Kurnik pl if u play makao with java with the person who plays on 'NO JAVA" beta...) grr
lol what you're saying is bull**** but to your happiness, WA on steam is expected to be timed out after worms revolution release and there are currently no plans to sell that separately
hope not. we'll see.
I'll still buy it standalone if/when they do. I'm not pre-purchasing W:Rev unless I hear good things after release.
hope's good flow but there's literally nothing for you in that worms game
trust me, or try for yourself and eventually agree with me :)
I don't know how many of you play Football (soccer) videogames, but the worms series would be like releasing PES13 and then, more than a decade later, release International Super Star Soccer for the Snes. I can't think of a better analogy. Football games have evolved in physics over the decade. Worm games have devolved, because Team17 just can't manage to do better.
Games like this new Worms games are being made in bulks now, in one or two men army efforts. Indiegames.com
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Wow. International Super Star Soccer was an absolutely epic game. It was totally cutting edge. Back when I must have been no more than a 12 or 13 ;O
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Wow. International Super Star Soccer was an absolutely epic game. It was totally cutting edge. Back when I must have been no more than a 12 or 13 ;O
Yeah, I guess Worms Revolutions would have been a great game back in the early 90s
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I love the graphics in ISSS. With all the bugs taken out and a little more gameplay options it would be a kickass game, for me anyway 8)
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I love the graphics in ISSS. With all the bugs taken out and a little more gameplay options it would be a kickass game, for me anyway 8)
You missed my point. I've played all Konami football games since the Snes and I've loved them all.
I'd probably play ISS now and enjoy it.
However, that doesn't excuse Team17 from making games backwards.
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Not really, they are turning classic, good 2d into crappy, buggy 3d. That's how it works for 90% of all good 2d games.
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Not really, they are turning classic, good 2d into crappy, buggy 3d. That's how it works for 90% of all good 2d games.
Nice number out of a hat.
No seriously, I guess you're just clueless on the videogame scene aren't you?
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I agree with Ropa.
Can't be bothered reading through this entire thread.
Has someone pointed out they should COPY W:A roping mechanics too the new game, then you get old audience + new audience...maybe.
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ALL game series had to do the transition to 3D at some point. Mario, Zelda, Sports etc. But T17 first messed the 3D transition up and later on when they realized that they can't make a good 3D Worms they even failed at understanding the core mechanics that made the original 2D Worms awesome. Mainly physics, game customization. It's actually a bit like Blizz North Team vs. Jay Wilson Team. Didn't a main designer/developer left T17 after WWP? Blizzard also didn't understand the core mechanics that made D2 awesome to the point that people still play it today, just like we play W:A. It's just on a much smaller magnitude in comparison, but essentially the same.
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Mario is back to 2D now. I hope to see other games returning to that idea as well (mainly strategy games like the Total War series and what not). Even sport games could be really nice in 2D, that's what i'm saying.
With all the cpu power not wasted on 'superfluous' eye-candy like super detailed 3D graphics they could put more effort in gameplay, customisation, online play and mod-ability. Things that are really valued by the players who actually play the game (rather than the noob reviewers who just go by looks).
To me, games do not need to be 100% copies of real life. You can use 'symbols' as well that represent real life 'ideas' and figures. You know, I don't need to have a figure with a head that looks exactly like Ronaldinho's face, a simple puppet with his name is even enough to get the idea.
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Mario is back to 2D now.
Sonic as well
Has someone pointed out they should COPY W:A roping mechanics too the new game, then you get old audience + new audience...maybe.
New audience is millions, old audience its our community with 200 ppl, what did you expect? xD
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New audience is millions
I doubt that. Team 17 would be doing full price titles if that was the case. :) Also, i've never seen more than 20 people online on Worms 3D or Worms 4 multiplayer, and those even were almost full price titles...
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Mario is back to 2D now. I hope to see other games returning to that idea as well (mainly strategy games like the Total War series and what not). Even sport games could be really nice in 2D, that's what i'm saying.
With all the cpu power not wasted on 'superfluous' eye-candy like super detailed 3D graphics they could put more effort in gameplay, customisation, online play and mod-ability. Things that are really valued by the players who actually play the game (rather than the noob reviewers who just go by looks).
To me, games do not need to be 100% copies of real life. You can use 'symbols' as well that represent real life 'ideas' and figures. You know, I don't need to have a figure with a head that looks exactly like Ronaldinho's face, a simple puppet with his name is even enough to get the idea.
Retro graphics, and 2D is just being popular again because the current "new" (teenagers) generation never got to see games in that perspective. They grew up with 3D and thus 2D is not actually a step back but a step in a different way to play games again. You want total war in 2D? Go grab Shogun Battles. xD Just kidding.
Mario did 3D very well, in fact I'd say especially the N64 3D Mario is still today the best Jump n Run ever made, 2D and 3D combined. And since they built on that success with Galaxy Sunshine etc. it would be logically to go 2D again since that same approach gets boring and 2D feels "fresh" again. I am not really believing that developers realize "oh, well 2D is better than 3D", instead just think 2D could potentially sell better in that particular genre.
Speaking of good transition. The new 3D XCom seems to be good too, gonna grab it tomorrow. :)
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I don't care about graphics or eye candy either. Game engines and mechanics are what hook me to games.
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You're all wrong.
The only reason 2d is big now is the birth of casual games as a power to be taken into account in sales thanks to the appearance of digital distribution.
Nothing more.
3D in videogames is a gift and I was only responding to the demagogy of HHC.
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You're all wrong.
The only reason 2d is big now is the birth of casual games as a power to be taken into account in sales thanks to the appearance of digital distribution.
Nothing more.
3D in videogames is a gift and I was only responding to the demagogy of HHC.
2D and indie games are for the boom in popularity of tablets and smartphones. IMO.
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You're all wrong.
The only reason 2d is big now is the birth of casual games as a power to be taken into account in sales thanks to the appearance of digital distribution.
Nothing more.
3D in videogames is a gift and I was only responding to the demagogy of HHC.
2D and indie games are for the boom in popularity of tablets and smartphones. IMO.
Yup, that's the reason. Digital distribution has been around for ages, it's the recent (and ongoing) advancement in the mobile devices field that caused it.
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Yeah, the advance in mobile technology has helped.
But like I said, it's been birth of the modern casual gamer (the one smart enough to buy off digital distribution). This new type of client does not only download games to his mobile, there's also Apple store for notebooks, desktop PCs, tablets, there's also PStore, there's Xbox Live, there's Steam.
And with the change of habits, moms, dads and sisters are now all loging in to these websites.
Like I said, that be the reason.
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I already made a smaller post about this on another topic but:
I would buy it as a CD version just because I like having them.. However, I like having a steam library so I don't have to use the CD. Weird eh?
When it comes to features and community, I'd like it to be connected to what we have now. I didn't even know that was an issue? Hm, well if it is. I'd go with the CD+what we have now. I have it pirated now but just because I was itching to play but I'm going to get it legally.. Because Team17 deserves it, even though their recent games aren't to my liking.
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Did T17 re-release WA as a stream version then and we've seen more players purchase and come back?
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Because Team17 deserves it
I'd buy it preferably if CyberShadow and Deadcode would get some money of it.
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Did T17 re-release WA as a stream version then and we've seen more players purchase and come back?
http://store.steampowered.com/app/217200
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I just want rope league back!
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Because Team17 deserves it
I'd buy it preferably if CyberShadow and Deadcode would get some money of it.
This ^