The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Worms: Armageddon => General discussion => Topic started by: MarCello on August 09, 2023, 12:19 PM
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I have a memory of a dll file mode that if you press a button like " - ", it will automatically drop the selected weapons very quickly. E.g. if you are on a rope and you have a holy hand grenade, you can drop it quickly if you press a button, even automatically. Which is this mode?
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Not sure but that sounds like cheating lol.
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I don't think so, because the /arrow mode can be considered a kind of cheating with that much power. But then answer if you can help!
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I don't know what "/arrow" is so I won't comment on that.
Trying to get a shortcut that automatically drops weapons as you select them though is most definitely cheating.
I assume you mean that for 'Holy Hand Grenade', you usually have to press 'F9' then 'Enter' whilst on rope to drop it. You are talking about a button that does both with 1 button.
That would be cheating.
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Check this!
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with that much power.
ennyi erővel - with that much power :D hehe epic translation from HUN
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Why do you need that? This is actually cheating. Good players doesn't need a tools/cheats for being good. In such a case, there should be a rule that annuls any league/cup/tournament victory if the player used macros.
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PORRRAAAA MARCELO, what a bad idea.
MI, you can close the thread ;D
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The reason I need this fantastic perfect cheat program is to make it easier for me to throw the guns off the rope, e.g. in a bombing competition when I'm running out of time! Let's have some fun. I remember when I pressed the letter n, I could use it to quickly release and shoot the rope.
this is not a cheat program! You might as well use " /arrows " as cheat code.....
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Macros.
That's the word I thought when I read this topic. I think Macros are cheat only if the cup, league, or random online games don't mention or don't allow them. If someone create a cup with a rule that all players not only can, but should use macros, I don't think this is cheating.
In my opinion Macros are amazing, it's a lot of fun to watch specially on schemes like WeaponXpress (https://worms2d.info/WeaponXpress). Although, it's only fair if all players use this tool. I never used, but I don't have any problem to use it for fun offline with myself or with someone that use this too. If all players use in an agreement, it's a balanced game for me, and a different experience.
Edit: regarding "/arrows" chat command, it is now part of v3.8. All players can use it in any scheme it is called Crate Finder (the arrows that point the distance of the crates like in missions). It was a good feature that is part of wkRubberWorm, although, I never liked the way it works (via chat command). It is annoying to remind every match to type this command, because some schemes/maps really need this for a better gameplay. Also, sometimes the map is small and don't need these arrows, so when someone use it you feel that you have a little of a disadvantage if you don't type this command, and sometimes it's nice to don't use it and find the crates the old way. However, I understand very well the reason why this feature was created as a chat command. Who had RubberWorm installed could use this feature even if the other player didn't have RubberWorm installed. This created an advantage to the ones that have it installed? Yes, but only a small advantage, very minimal and if someone types this command, everybody know that this person is seeing the crates with arrows. So players should ask to turn off or invalidate the game. And this was very important to RubberWorm become known in the community. Many people became curious and downloaded the module. It was a way to promote the mod effectively. I think the developers kept this feature exactly the way it was probably for some good reason, but I think the ideal would be to turn it into a scheme option. I think the author of the scheme or the players themselves should decide if the game would be better with or without it and all players would start the game on the same condition.
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If someone create a cup with a rule that all players not only can, but should use macros, I don't think this is cheating.
If someone creates a cup, where all players should use macros, it should be specifically described which macros are allowed. For example, the player #1 decides to use macros like "F1 + Enter" for fast zook shots from rope, but the player #2 would rather to use macros for fast tapping. How will you decide (as cup moderator) which one is better/worse, which one gives more advantage? In addition, if you allow only the macro that player #1 prefer for example, then player #2 will be offended or will leave the cup altogether. This is a complex topic, but you know what i mean.
As I can remember, chat-commands like /arrows or /order all (wkwormorder) are in "gray-zone" and allowed only if all players use it in an agreement. Otherwise, it's also cheating, because it gives a certain advantage to one player. Of course, I'm talking about competitive games.
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Macros are generally considered cheating, pretty much everyone will agree with this.
If it wasn't considered cheating, everyone would be doing it from day one lol.
Though, I agree that if a TUS Challenge is created where the specific purpose is using macros, then I think that would be fair.
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If someone create a cup with a rule that all players not only can, but should use macros, I don't think this is cheating.
If someone creates a cup, where all players should use macros, it should be specifically described which macros are allowed. For example, the player #1 decides to use macros like "F1 + Enter" for fast zook shots from rope, but the player #2 would rather to use macros for fast tapping. How will you decide (as cup moderator) which one is better/worse, which one gives more advantage? In addition, if you allow only the macro that player #1 prefer for example, then player #2 will be offended or will leave the cup altogether. This is a complex topic, but you know what i mean.
As I can remember, chat-commands like /arrows or /order all (wkwormorder) are in "gray-zone" and allowed only if all players use it in an agreement. Otherwise, it's also cheating, because it gives a certain advantage to one player. Of course, I'm talking about competitive games.
You're right. I agree.
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Some macros are just harmless though. I remember I used this "T" pressing macro for worm thinking bubble in a couple of TUS TTRR matches vs Random00 and I was instantly crucified by that + Rope script that ignores 2nd press and makes FR easier. In that moment of history people were just witch hunting me because it was too much to deal with that a newcomer kid used to beat Random00 in TTRR lol. I was just a kid with zero english skills to defend myself. Just a small trash of TUS/Worms history that haunts me sometimes.
Truth is, that script doesn't make anyone better, fast taps doesn't matter too. It was never about the script, but who were the loser in that moment of the history + Nowadays pretty much every freestyler rope player use rope scripts and they suck when it comes to competitive worms. It never mattered. ;)
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Some macros are just harmless though. I remember I used this "T" pressing macro for worm thinking bubble in a couple of TUS TTRR matches vs Random00 and I was instantly crucified by that + Rope script that ignores 2nd press and makes FR easier. In that moment of history people were just witch hunting me because it was too much to deal with that a newcomer kid used to beat Random00 in TTRR lol. I was just a kid with zero english skills to defend myself. Just a small trash of TUS/Worms history that haunts me sometimes.
Truth is, that script doesn't make anyone better, fast taps doesn't matter too. It was never about the script, but who were the loser in that moment of the history + Nowadays pretty much every freestyler rope player use rope scripts and they suck when it comes to competitive worms. It never mattered. ;)
cheaters are cheaters, and they are the real and biggest losers in the "history" of something, if there is history behind all this in the first place.. : P fast tappers with scripts is an example like this. there has always been a big turn-off for me in WA communities and here on TUS site. if there is a player who gets busted using cheats IN ANY online competitive games or in speedrunning, those players usually gets outcasted like trash and treated as a piece of shit by everyone else. just take a look at how they treat players who gets taken down cheating in CS:GO or LoL. or speedrunning in GTA San Andreas or anything. they get bullied until they disappear. and what happens here in this funny little cartoon worms game? these cheater trash noobs are still around here, throwing insults, barking at other players out of jealousy and still playing the game until now.
an example: https://www.tus-wa.com/challenges/challenge-637/msg244620/#msg244620
this boy was a known cheater in the past anyway, I saw on multiple platforms and sites that he was known to players for using various cheats/scripts. he is still around, and when I legit call another cheater (not him) a cheater, he gets butthurt and starts barking to me on this site every single time, which the admin lets him to do so, and my comments usually disappear for pointing this out so. this WOULD NEVER HAPPEN in another online game which has healthy normal-minded adult people, cheaters get taken out of society ;) here noob cheaters can do their business and keep on playin the leagues. well fine, I knew this from day 1, and still remained here playing everyone equally and tolerating their shits with patience (: this example was just 1 example of the many.. there are a few more around cheating freely without anyone looking into them, and the rest are gone from WA fortunately. I saw an occasion where a player got banned instantly in the past and she was not even cheating ever. (Natalia) If there is a proof or there HAS EVER BEEN A PROOF about it, I wanna see it. :) because 100% sure she was never a cheater. so this community to me has always been a big pile of mess mostly.
if you are not able to play an online game good NATURALLY, and enjoy the game as it is, then just gtfo and don't turn to scripts, cheats, and overall helping tools that aids you in winning. I would be very ashamed of myself if I was doing something like that, and I still beat top players without using scripts, while they were using them occasionally.
and to me its extra funny that certain people call Marcello here a "wannabe cheater" for wanting to use an option which reselects you the previous weapon inf times if that was a big f@#!ing thing.. tell me, in which scheme exactly could he get an unfair advantage over you for using such a module? in the league, there is no such a scheme. 1 scheme comes to my mind which could be abused with such a tool and its supermarket shopper (kaos shopper) which lets admit, is not a busy scheme nowadays..
my comment was not adressed to you specifically Kaleu ^.- only your comment made me think about writing a rant of all this : ]
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Yeah it's ok... I mean, there are obvious cheating like.. xspeed to get advantage and win challenges, homemade wk modules to spy crates, remove water etc.. These are obvious cheats, no discussion.
But those programs I mentioned in my post: "banned" ahk script, T macro.. are just harmless tools IMO, it won't make players better if they don't master rope schemes at all. It wouldn't make a random noob beat blitzed/ me in a TTRR match in a short period of practice, it still needs years of scheme mastering. Not even gonna mention the "T" macro, it just makes the worms think in middle turn, lol... And Tap counts doesn't matter that much, the best TTRR players of all time never had fast taps, it's proven already.
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This is a controversial topic. I don't see any problem when players want to get the most out of their hardware/gear.
There is no possibility for all players to play at the same level of conditions. I for example have a huge disadvantage in BIGRR, because my monitor doesn't support large resolutions, so I avoid it at all costs. Because of that, should I consider anyone who has a bigger monitor than mine with a ridiculous 240hz+ refresh rate a cheater? I have the right to do so, but does it makes sense? It's the same for people that write scripts, it's the workaround for low budget people.
Also there are multiple antighosting keyboards available to buy, it's a huge advantage in roping too.
IMO, you should be allowed to MOD as much as you want because there will be always someone with the right amount of money to get an advantage over you. I bet theres already some super cool keyboard that will do exact the same of what that script did with a built-in software... :D
Change my mind.
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Some macros are just harmless though. I remember I used this "T" pressing macro for worm thinking bubble in a couple of TUS TTRR matches vs Random00 and I was instantly crucified by that + Rope script that ignores 2nd press and makes FR easier. In that moment of history people were just witch hunting me because it was too much to deal with that a newcomer kid used to beat Random00 in TTRR lol. I was just a kid with zero english skills to defend myself. Just a small trash of TUS/Worms history that haunts me sometimes.
Truth is, that script doesn't make anyone better, fast taps doesn't matter too. It was never about the script, but who were the loser in that moment of the history + Nowadays pretty much every freestyler rope player use rope scripts and they suck when it comes to competitive worms. It never mattered. ;)
cheaters are cheaters, and they are the real and biggest losers in the "history" of something, if there is history behind all this in the first place.. : P fast tappers with scripts is an example like this. there has always been a big turn-off for me in WA communities and here on TUS site. if there is a player who gets busted using cheats IN ANY online competitive games or in speedrunning, those players usually gets outcasted like trash and treated as a piece of shit by everyone else. just take a look at how they treat players who gets taken down cheating in CS:GO or LoL. or speedrunning in GTA San Andreas or anything. they get bullied until they disappear. and what happens here in this funny little cartoon worms game? these cheater trash noobs are still around here, throwing insults, barking at other players out of jealousy and still playing the game until now.
an example: https://www.tus-wa.com/challenges/challenge-637/msg244620/#msg244620
this boy was a known cheater in the past anyway, I saw on multiple platforms and sites that he was known to players for using various cheats/scripts. he is still around, and when I legit call another cheater (not him) a cheater, he gets butthurt and starts barking to me on this site every single time, which the admin lets him to do so, and my comments usually disappear for pointing this out so. this WOULD NEVER HAPPEN in another online game which has healthy normal-minded adult people, cheaters get taken out of society ;) here noob cheaters can do their business and keep on playin the leagues. well fine, I knew this from day 1, and still remained here playing everyone equally and tolerating their shits with patience (: this example was just 1 example of the many.. there are a few more around cheating freely without anyone looking into them, and the rest are gone from WA fortunately. I saw an occasion where a player got banned instantly in the past and she was not even cheating ever. (Natalia) If there is a proof or there HAS EVER BEEN A PROOF about it, I wanna see it. :) because 100% sure she was never a cheater. so this community to me has always been a big pile of mess mostly.
if you are not able to play an online game good NATURALLY, and enjoy the game as it is, then just gtfo and don't turn to scripts, cheats, and overall helping tools that aids you in winning. I would be very ashamed of myself if I was doing something like that, and I still beat top players without using scripts, while they were using them occasionally.
and to me its extra funny that certain people call Marcello here a "wannabe cheater" for wanting to use an option which reselects you the previous weapon inf times if that was a big f@#!ing thing.. tell me, in which scheme exactly could he get an unfair advantage over you for using such a module? in the league, there is no such a scheme. 1 scheme comes to my mind which could be abused with such a tool and its supermarket shopper (kaos shopper) which lets admit, is not a busy scheme nowadays..
my comment was not adressed to you specifically Kaleu ^.- only your comment made me think about writing a rant of all this : ]
I mean kaleu did some cheating but its been much time since this, think he deserves another shot. Was one of the harshest kaleu critics, but hes done much good work with community for the zillians and is a clean player now afaik.
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@Lupastic,
You have a tendency to jump into conclusions without solid proof. Well you don't jump though, you see the tiniest "hint" then you buy a plane ticket and fly to a conclusion in another continent.
You saw one replay of dibz which he roped different than his usual, then you decided that he is a cheater. In your head that is enough proof. Again as I have said before, you can provide your case to Deadcode/CyberShadow and let them analyze. EXACTLY how I did with Runaway and NATALIA. Both confirmed with the game maintainers. That's your solid proof. In fact I still have NATALIA's attempts. You can contact Deadcode/CyberShadow and ask them to contact me to have another go on NATALIA's case.
You have divided people into 2 groups of enemies and friends. You go to war with the tiniest excuse with your enemies and you cut your friends a huge slack.
Enemy: dibz => one unusual replay and he is a horrible cheater than should be banned for life.
Friend: NATALIA => Completely confirmed cheating case: you are sure she is innocent. Why? because your friend says so?
Runaway case is from 2016 and NATALIA's is from 2018. Both Runaway and NATALIA got banned and have done their time on TUS and they are both unbanned now. Yes I give people second chances. They are still wormers and part of this community. They are not used tissues to be thrown away. Many of them still contribute. Isn't it better to work with the community rather than mutilate it for one mistake?
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Some macros are just harmless though. I remember I used this "T" pressing macro for worm thinking bubble in a couple of TUS TTRR matches vs Random00 and I was instantly crucified by that + Rope script that ignores 2nd press and makes FR easier. In that moment of history people were just witch hunting me because it was too much to deal with that a newcomer kid used to beat Random00 in TTRR lol. I was just a kid with zero english skills to defend myself. Just a small trash of TUS/Worms history that haunts me sometimes.
Truth is, that script doesn't make anyone better, fast taps doesn't matter too. It was never about the script, but who were the loser in that moment of the history + Nowadays pretty much every freestyler rope player use rope scripts and they suck when it comes to competitive worms. It never mattered. ;)
cheaters are cheaters, and they are the real and biggest losers in the "history" of something, if there is history behind all this in the first place.. : P fast tappers with scripts is an example like this. there has always been a big turn-off for me in WA communities and here on TUS site. if there is a player who gets busted using cheats IN ANY online competitive games or in speedrunning, those players usually gets outcasted like trash and treated as a piece of shit by everyone else. just take a look at how they treat players who gets taken down cheating in CS:GO or LoL. or speedrunning in GTA San Andreas or anything. they get bullied until they disappear. and what happens here in this funny little cartoon worms game? these cheater trash noobs are still around here, throwing insults, barking at other players out of jealousy and still playing the game until now.
an example: https://www.tus-wa.com/challenges/challenge-637/msg244620/#msg244620
this boy was a known cheater in the past anyway, I saw on multiple platforms and sites that he was known to players for using various cheats/scripts. he is still around, and when I legit call another cheater (not him) a cheater, he gets butthurt and starts barking to me on this site every single time, which the admin lets him to do so, and my comments usually disappear for pointing this out so. this WOULD NEVER HAPPEN in another online game which has healthy normal-minded adult people, cheaters get taken out of society ;) here noob cheaters can do their business and keep on playin the leagues. well fine, I knew this from day 1, and still remained here playing everyone equally and tolerating their shits with patience (: this example was just 1 example of the many.. there are a few more around cheating freely without anyone looking into them, and the rest are gone from WA fortunately. I saw an occasion where a player got banned instantly in the past and she was not even cheating ever. (Natalia) If there is a proof or there HAS EVER BEEN A PROOF about it, I wanna see it. :) because 100% sure she was never a cheater. so this community to me has always been a big pile of mess mostly.
if you are not able to play an online game good NATURALLY, and enjoy the game as it is, then just gtfo and don't turn to scripts, cheats, and overall helping tools that aids you in winning. I would be very ashamed of myself if I was doing something like that, and I still beat top players without using scripts, while they were using them occasionally.
and to me its extra funny that certain people call Marcello here a "wannabe cheater" for wanting to use an option which reselects you the previous weapon inf times if that was a big f@#!ing thing.. tell me, in which scheme exactly could he get an unfair advantage over you for using such a module? in the league, there is no such a scheme. 1 scheme comes to my mind which could be abused with such a tool and its supermarket shopper (kaos shopper) which lets admit, is not a busy scheme nowadays..
my comment was not adressed to you specifically Kaleu ^.- only your comment made me think about writing a rant of all this : ]
Here are my comments to your statements. Take a look as I did with your rant:
i) "these cheater trash noobs are still around here, throwing insults, barking at other players out of jealousy and still playing the game until now"
This does not seem to be the truth: I had to block you on snooper because you're still flooding me with any kind of insults since too long. Yesterday evening, you joined Billy's game and started to insult me from nowhere. Your statement is completely false, maybe driven just by your own frustration or something.
You are also mentioning "barking at other players", but I have never done anything similar, so please provide some concrete examples with a list of players I was insulting, instead of stating false things without any proof like a typical politician.
How will you say to your brother, Brother, let me take the grain of dust out of your eye, when you yourself do not see the bit of wood in your eye? O false one! First take the wood out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to take the dust out of your brother's eye.
ii) "this boy was a known cheater in the past anyway, I saw on multiple platforms and sites that he was known to players for using various cheats/scripts"
Yes, I cheated with xSpeed tool almost 8 years ago in some rope-based challenges (my ban was fair) and I also got familiar with this field a long time ago. Nevertheless, I did not use any scripts you are talking about here.
This happened only on tus if my memory serves me well: what kind of "platforms"/"sites" outside tus are you talking about (e.g., USA government, pentagon, United Nations, NATO, etc.)? Just link them to me, I am also curious!
iii) "he is still around"
Yes I am still here, but I am getting older and older, and I will probably leave this game in a couple of years (for your satisfaction) due to the lack of free time as I used to have during the past.
iv) "and when I legit call another cheater (not him) a cheater, he gets butthurt and starts barking to me on this site every single time"
"legit" is a questionable term. If I answer to your posts is because I do not tolerate your conceited and arrogant behaviour/language. Probably you are right, I should simply ignore you, but I am just a human being, and you tempt me so much, my bad.
v) "this WOULD NEVER HAPPEN in another online game which has healthy normal-minded adult people, cheaters get taken out of society .. here noob cheaters can do their business and keep on playin the leagues"
It is called democracy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy. There are good countries for your needs such as North Korea, Mali, Sudan, Ghana, Ciad, etc.
In any case, I am not participating in any competitive games on tus, so I am not sure what your statement is standing for when you mention leagues.
vi) "well fine, I knew this from day 1"
Does your day 1 start from 30/11/2020 (when you decided to be a new person) or should we consider 18/04/2009 as the main reference (when you were still suffering from your unpopularity: https://www.tus-wa.com/profile/Dragon )?
vii) "and still remained here playing everyone equally and tolerating their shits with patience"
Thank you for your big effort, although the facts demonstrate the opposite. Did you ever google "equally" and "tolerating"?
viii) "I still beat top players without using scripts"
Can you provide a list of "top" players you have beaten?
Bests,
rUNaW4y
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this is the kind of drama that makes me think that WA can't blow up ever again
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Woah this blew up lol.
@Kaleu
and I was instantly crucified by that + Rope script that ignores 2nd press and makes FR easier.
And so you rightly should be crucified for that script, the very fact that you said "makes FR easier" the keyword being "easier" should notify you that it's cheating.
Of course I'm not having a go at you, I like you lol.
Personally I feel like the difference is hardware versus software, I feel like using any hardware is acceptable, though using software to bypass the software the game was designed to do is considered cheating UNLESS the community accepts it as a whole, for example some of the things you said like cratefinder is acceptable, wkRemapKeys is acceptable(likely because most games have built in options to change keys without experiencing input lag).
Also think of it like this...
If you consider yourself a gamer, even a casual gamer on a PC must have a good amount of knowledge about computers and how they work, hardware and resolutions and how they affect gameplay.
Whereas, software that alters the way the game should work? That's something that has endless capabilities... Everyone is aware that other people can have better hardware like monitor, mouse, keyboard yet they openly take the risk knowing this because they still want to know how they stack up. Though if opponents use wormkit modules and scripts that other people don't know about, it gives them an advantage that's not commonly known.
That's at least the only reason why I see it as cheating, if the autoscript was part of the game, and easily accessible to everyone, I wouldn't care.
Do you see what I'm trying to explain here?
You have a tendency to jump into conclusions without solid proof. Well you don't jump though, you see the tiniest "hint" then you buy a plane ticket and fly to a conclusion in another continent.
:D
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rUNaW4y
you said many lies and bullshits in your comment (+ the other guy too) as usual, so I'm not even going to bother reply for the rest, but.. the most hilarious thing is that you said that me and Dragon are the same players LOL :D u gonna drink away the last "brain"cells you have in your head bruh. I have overall 3 years experience here. Dragon is an OG player, the ones who know who he is, they know. and they know me too. this lie alone is enough to discard the rest of your false stuff, cheater noob ; >
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Booooooring
this is the kind of drama that makes me think that WA can't blow up ever again
In my opinion it is actually the only thing that keeps it alive :D
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I've played with Natalia before, but she never cheated.
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@Komo
I understand you and half agree with you. But before banning something it's better to find a way to identify who is using it because noones gonna have the balls to come public and admit it like some players did, otherwise the general rule should be that it should be allowed/released to everyone, as it is not possible to identify who uses it and who does not. (I'm talking about the banned rope script.)
And when I said I support modding, I was not talking strictly about software moding but fisical modding too, like when Mablak taught to use paper cones for the keyboard.. etc.
Your argument doesn't bring a solution, I think it is more comfortable to accept the fact of allowing the use of any hardware even if it does the same thing that can be achieved using software because it is something that you have no control over, while using software still brings this small feeling that people can be controlled and banned.
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Let's see for example how this is done for overclocking, it consists of using software programs to improve hardware performance to force hardware to go beyond limitations it's projected for.
It's publicly allowed and uses the same logic in my opinion. And there is no way to identify it right now.
It's just an example of modding your hardware with software and I personally put it in the same pot as the "banned" script, it's only improving your keyboard with software, and there's not a public statement saying it is "bypassing what the software of the game was designed to do", I don't think it is at all.
I see the banned rope script as a harmless modification as it's not automating anything for me, it's just removing a hardware limitation, it still requires me to know how to play the game and how to rope.
And as I said earlier there are probably good enough keyboards out there that money can buy that this limitation does not matter anymore.
I also want to point out that I was not talking about crate finder when I said "crate spy", there were some wk modules that enaabled permanent crate spy in the game to see what's in the crates beforing collecting and permanent laser sight too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overclocking
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If a person wishes to cheat by using software, then he or she should do so offline.
If a person wishes to enable cheat through software in a online match, they should say so.
If a person wishes to modify their peripherals for whatever reasons, then that is out of our control to know.
If a person is disabled and require the use of accessibilities, they should be able to do so, unless if it brings significant unfair advantage.
I have notice that many of these modules, and tools, are somewhat close to accessibility E.g: Some people may struggle with remembering the orders of the worms order or that some people want it easier to press a button..
Cheats or accessibilities should not be allowed in league games, unless if there is a league that permits it of course.
I used to care a little when people used scripts to tap and rope faster but now it is just a waste of time. It doesn't hurt anyone if it is a funner game. Sometime things are out of our control and it is a pointless exercise to care what you can't control. It's better to stay positive.
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I've played with Natalia before, but she never cheated.
The cheats we talked about are about records for challenges. Not league games.
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That doesn't mean she cheated, just because you try to explain it away!
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I see the banned rope script as a harmless modification as it's not automating anything for me, it's just removing a hardware limitation, it still requires me to know how to play the game and how to rope.
And as I said earlier there are probably good enough keyboards out there that money can buy that this limitation does not matter anymore.
https://wooting.io/wooting-60he
Scroll down to Rapid Trigger, the script has a hardware "solution". I love that one quote from the site: “Seriously overpowered in the hands of a top tier player” :)
Eliminate the second slowest element in input latency; return key press travel before key deactivation. Rapid Trigger dynamically changes the actuation and deactivation point. Your keys will activate when you intend to press them and deactivate when you intend to let go.
You can repeat a key press mid motion without needing to surpass a fixed reset or actuation point for rapid presses.
Highlighted the script behaviour. So, anyone that buys this keyboard has essentially a built-in script, for consistency purposes, the keyboard would need to be banned. What is TUS stance on this? Hardware "cheats" allowed or disallowed? ???
Technology will continue to push boundaries, and tradition will never gain enough momentum again to halt it's progress. Yes, back in the days we didn't have access to these things, but I am glad we do now. In 100 years or whatever, people might start playing with brain enhancements or body enhancements like in Deus Ex or Cyberpunk video games. Purists will demand everyone to be "cyborg free" but in the end, technology will always push further and I am happy it does.
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That new kb tech seems like a natural progression for keyboards. I'd be interested if anyone tries this kb out to give feedback on how finger rolling feels on it.
I think kbs like that should be allowed unless anyone can think of a reason otherwise. But I'd want to know if the AHK script is actually identical to this before talking about allowing it, like I could imagine the script having even less latency. It wouldn't be a big deal to allow the script if there's truly no discernible difference. As long as we're not talking about allowing macros that press multiple buttons for you.
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The subtle difference between the Wooting 60HE and the script is that with the keyboard you at least have to lift one of the keys for a very short time, I believe 1 ms, before pressing the other key. With the script you do not have to lift the other key at all. Hardware that is closer in functionality to the script is a D-PAD where two opposite buttons can not be pressed at once. By mapping the space key to left and right on a D-PAD it is possible circumvent the multiple space block.
I would not mind seeing both hardware like that and the script allowed on TUS even as someone who has no interest in using it. I do not believe those tools give enough of an advantage to be banned.
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The subtle difference between the Wooting 60HE and the script is that with the keyboard you at least have to lift one of the keys for a very short time, I believe 1 ms, before pressing the other key. With the script you do not have to lift the other key at all. Hardware that is closer in functionality to the script is a D-PAD where two opposite buttons can not be pressed at once. By mapping the space key to left and right on a D-PAD it is possible circumvent the multiple space block.
I would not mind seeing both hardware like that and the script allowed on TUS even as someone who has no interest in using it. I do not believe those tools give enough of an advantage to be banned.
The keyboard is the most beneficial to those people that don't FR, since you can activate the key way faster without needing to wait for the deactivation as long anymore. Twitching or what it's called nowadays would be amazing on this kb. FR players don't rapidly press the same button and usually opt into using 2 or more keys as space where you rhythmically tap one after the other. Still nice to have in case you don't sync or time your taps as good, but imo the biggest advantage with this kb would be single tap players.
If this was available 10 years ago I would have bought it instantly. But I don't play anymore so.. someone else do the science. :D
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Thank you for this keyboard Anubis!
I will be buying this next month, and I'll do a live review of it as well!
I also need to reply to some stuff here, but don't have time right now, got the Elite plz Cup starting in 20 minutes and need to prepare stream!
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Thank you for this keyboard Anubis!
I will be buying this next month, and I'll do a live review of it as well!
I also need to reply to some stuff here, but don't have time right now, got the Elite plz Cup starting in 20 minutes and need to prepare stream!
Sounds good, it really seems like the perfect Worms keyboard, customizable to the fullest as if you are modding your own keyboard to your needs! If it works like I imagine it to work this will be the new standard for roping from now. Will you review with a video? :D
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Thank you for this keyboard Anubis!
I will be buying this next month, and I'll do a live review of it as well!
I also need to reply to some stuff here, but don't have time right now, got the Elite plz Cup starting in 20 minutes and need to prepare stream!
Sounds good, it really seems like the perfect Worms keyboard, customizable to the fullest as if you are modding your own keyboard to your needs! If it works like I imagine it to work this will be the new standard for roping from now. Will you review with a video? :D
I will be reviewing it live on stream!
Also, I wish there was a TKL version or this or a full size, but it's good for roping specifically so not a problem!
(https://i.imgur.com/NdRIsJr.png)
I couldn't wait... Going to be struggling for the next few weeks for money but f**k it! :D
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This keyboard seems good. But it doesn't have media controls and media wheel. You can argue that you can add that with customization. But it isn't the same if you do it that way.
Also imo, you need a fast and responsive display to get good rope.
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Also imo, you need a fast and responsive display to get good rope.
That's no problem I have a 240hz, 0.5ms monitor. :D
As for the media wheel, I've got that covered, well, not yet, but planned!
Given that the Wooting keyboard is a very small 60% keyboard and will take up very little room on my desk. I'm going to buy a USB multimedia control device that will fit neatly beside it.
8)
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Any ETA when it arrives yet? :D
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Any ETA when it arrives yet? :D
When I ordered it, it said around 12th September. Maybe I'll get lucky and it'll arrive shortly before, or perhaps unlucky and it'll be a few days late lol.
Either way, I'm pretty sure it'll be September at some point, as long as it's before my birthday!
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i have a 240 hz monitor 1440 and a 120 hz 1440. ofc i dont use 240 hz for worms, not sure it matters much honestly. seems like more of a FPS thing than a worms thing, 120 seems just fine for me
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Just in case it might be interesting for you:
I used to be familiar with flat/slim keys from my laptop for roping since the beginning (2012). It has been always a benefit for me considering the fact that the pressure of flat/slim keys requires less effort compared to fat keys like in the case of other keyboards such as Logitech G910 which I tried to handle without success a few years ago (finger roll on 3 spaces was hard to perform), regardless of the underlying switches.
Then my historical laptop died, and I started to use an external keyboard (paid 30 Euros) with another laptop (DELL XPS), full of lags and with a very bad response time which induced me to go for a 2-spaces finger roll for a "decent" roping.
Then I purchased a new laptop (Lenovo IdeaPad Gaming, paid 1700 Euros) with flat keys, but for some months I preferred to avoid using it for roping to prevent any damage to the keyboard due to a constant keys’ pressing.
Finally, Sir-J proposed a few alternatives in terms of keyboards to solve the issue, and I relied on one of them by purchasing a Corsair K100 AIR (paid 270 Euros) with tactile switches. Although it was better than everything I have ever tried during the past, the keys’ width of 2mm was not still enough, and I decided to sacrifice my new laptop for roping (actually I do not know how these integrated keyboards works and so forth, but this still allows me to rope the way I rope and I do not need to know anything else).
Nevertheless, I have deeply tested this keyboard (Corsair K100 AIR) and I realized the following:
1) it supports polling speed customization through a simple GUI (min: 125Hz/2msec of input latency and max: 8000Hz/0.125 msec of input latency);
2) it supports the hardware keys remapping via the officially distributed software tool;
3) it allows remapping macros on any key (like double pressing of the space on a single key).
Based on this, the considerations I come up with are the following:
1) new keyboards allow you to have a very low response time while pressing keys. You will never know whether people use a simple ahk script or a macro from a 270 Euros keyboard (both should be considered as a cheating);
2) for sure both a good monitor, with a proper refresh rate, and a good keyboard with 0.125 msec response time are an advantage over people with less performing HW;
3) The wkRemapKeys module is not sufficient to prevent multiple pressing based on macros coming from a dedicated remapping tool related to a new and expensive keyboard.
For those who might be interested, this is my current setup for Worms Armageddon gameplay (nevertheless, I can not still beat Masta with a perfect HW available as you can see: https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-1204/. My Corsair K100 AIR would not provide me skills that I do not have in any case):
- External MSI monitor with a 144HZ refresh rate (1366x768 px resolution, as a personal and suitable choice);
- Flat/slim laptop’s keys for roping with a low response time (although I do not know how this is managed by my laptop, lol);
- wkRemapKeys module for remap: WASD keys as arrows pressed with the left hand and NumPad2 and NumPad3 as spaces pressed alternatively with right hand.
I am not in favour of anything, but I wanted to let you know my thoughts about this topic.
Peace,
rUNaW4y
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For those who might be interested, this is my current setup for Worms Armageddon gameplay (nevertheless, I can not still beat Masta with a perfect HW available as you can see: https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-1204/. My Corsair K100 AIR would not provide me skills that I do not have in any case)
I am confused...
What does "a perfect HW available" mean? You linked up to the Team17 2v2 Cup, which has nothing to do with Masta? I assume you meant the recent Big ZaR RR #3 Cup?
Also, in terms of being able to beat Masta, you have a similar issue as myself, it's definitely not your speed that is the issue, it's your consistency.
I can rope as fast as anyone else, as in I can bounce off walls as fast as anyone else, I can traverse the map as fast as anyone else, I can do power spikes, fast swooshes, power outlaws and pumps when required and scroll fast with ease at the top level as the best Ropers of all time.
However, I seriously lack in consistency, so I keep falling, it's something I am improving with time and practise though, granted I haven't been that active myself in the past 5-6 years added to the fact I switched to using left hand on WASD and right hand on Spacebar a few years ago and haven't reached my potential yet while improving my control with arrows that way.
Consistency is the most important aspect of roping at the top level, that's why we're not as good as Masta when it comes to these challenges, his consistency in keeping it together in Big RR is amazing while roping very fast.
As you saw in the Cup matches he's played though, he DOES make mistakes, which can even cost him almost an entire turn. Though generally speaking he's one of the most consistent Ropers I've ever seen.
I will do some research on this keyboard myself as well, thanks for sharing!
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For those who might be interested, this is my current setup for Worms Armageddon gameplay (nevertheless, I can not still beat Masta with a perfect HW available as you can see: https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-1204/. My Corsair K100 AIR would not provide me skills that I do not have in any case)
I am confused...
What does "a perfect HW available" mean? You linked up to the Team17 2v2 Cup, which has nothing to do with Masta? I assume you meant the recent Big ZaR RR #3 Cup?
Also, in terms of being able to beat Masta, you have a similar issue as myself, it's definitely not your speed that is the issue, it's your consistency.
I can rope as fast as anyone else, as in I can bounce off walls as fast as anyone else, I can traverse the map as fast as anyone else, I can do power spikes, fast swooshes, power outlaws and pumps when required and scroll fast with ease at the top level as the best Ropers of all time.
However, I seriously lack in consistency, so I keep falling, it's something I am improving with time and practise though, granted I haven't been that active myself in the past 5-6 years added to the fact I switched to using left hand on WASD and right hand on Spacebar a few years ago and haven't reached my potential yet while improving my control with arrows that way.
Consistency is the most important aspect of roping at the top level, that's why we're not as good as Masta when it comes to these challenges, his consistency in keeping it together in Big RR is amazing while roping very fast.
As you saw in the Cup matches he's played though, he DOES make mistakes, which can even cost him almost an entire turn. Though generally speaking he's one of the most consistent Ropers I've ever seen.
I will do some research on this keyboard myself as well, thanks for sharing!
Nothing to be confused with.
I am simply pointing out that HW you are relying on might be an advantage in some cases (neither in your case nor in mine).
Of course, based on my previous statements, the HW-based "advantage" is useless if you can not be consistent, like in the case I mentioned against Masta. Your kb could even guarantee a fast response time as well as your monitor, but if you can not be consistent then it is a waste of time. But, if you consider games between people that are not skilled enough, then this could be still an advantage, not related to skills.
Note: Perfect HW means that you rely on the best Monitor (240Hz) and the Best Keyboard available on the market (0.125ms of latency).
I hope my point is clear now,
rUNaW4y
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The confusion for me was mostly what "HW" means, I'm now pretty sure that when you say "HW" it means hardware, correct?
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The confusion for me was mostly what "HW" means, I'm now pretty sure that when you say "HW" it means hardware, correct?
Yes, with HW nomenclature I just meant hardware components I was talking about above, such as a monitor or a keyboard that are used to be called peripherals or something like that, but still hardware components.
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(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/954445025620676680/1149500817649434644/image.png)
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Sorry for off-topic but gotta reply to this:
Sir-J proposed a few alternatives in terms of keyboards to solve the issue, and I relied on one of them by purchasing a Corsair K100 AIR (paid 270 Euros) with tactile switches.
Normally I wouldn't recommend a keyboard this expensive but since main criterias were low profile keys and ultra fast response time I had to recommend this one as it's simply the fastest low profile keyboard out there according to rtings: https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/tests/latency
However, if one's willing to spend this amount of money on a keyboard and isn't insistent on having low profile keys then definitely buy Wooting. Best gaming keyboard bar none (haven't tried tried one myself but watched a lot of reviews).
Sadly they didn't test older mechanical keyboards like the vintage IBM ones. They always felt insanely quick to me.
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Sadly they didn't test older mechanical keyboards like the vintage IBM ones. They always felt insanely quick to me.
They have tested IBM Model M and as it turned out wired latency for that keyboard is only 18.6 ms. So not fast compared to others, but they have a unit from 1993 and around that time IBM reduced manufacturing costs so it's possible that earlier versions were better in that respect. Also, I wish they reviewed modern Model M by Unicomp, because it's still produced and is relatively affordable.
https://www.rtings.com/keyboard/reviews/ibm/model-m
Oh nice, didn't see it in the List you posted! 18ms is pretty hefty you are right. I played with a Model M from 1990 and I had a Model M2 which was from 1995 or something. I liked the 1990 more but the M2 was good too, better than most trashy rubber-domes I had at the time.