Can somebody tell me if Girders squeezing worms vertically in the very 1st turn are allowed? They make it impossible for worms to leave their own girder, parachute anywhere or jump down. I have played around 20-30 Holy war matches in past and I remember always seeing girders placed around the enemy in a \_/ shape or \/ shape (bowl or V).

It seems to me that |.| it's nothing but a block, since the worm is stuck. If that was allowed, nothing stops the player from giving ultra tight 2x vertical block glued to the worm from both sides, to paralyse it even more |.|. It would make no sense in the long run, since you can immobilise 2.5 worms per turn, and only 1 worm per turn can teleport out of its crevice. Whoever starts would always end up immobilising 5 worms of the enemy by the end of his/her 2nd turn.

I think blocking with girders shouldn't matter too much in this scheme, since you can easily escape by throwing a holy under yourself. Or by simply teleporting away. (inf amount teles in the arsenal)
I don't even understand why blocking is not allowed here by tus rules..

Quote from: ZorroX on September 18, 2021, 09:57 PM
Can somebody tell me if Girders squeezing worms vertically in the very 1st turn are allowed? They make it impossible for worms to leave their own girder, parachute anywhere or jump down. I have played around 20-30 Holy war matches in past and I remember always seeing girders placed around the enemy in a \_/ shape or \/ shape (bowl or V).

It seems to me that |.| it's nothing but a block, since the worm is stuck. If that was allowed, nothing stops the player from giving ultra tight 2x vertical block glued to the worm from both sides, to paralyse it even more |.|. It would make no sense in the long run, since you can immobilise 2.5 worms per turn, and only 1 worm per turn can teleport out of its crevice. Whoever starts would always end up immobilising 5 worms of the enemy by the end of his/her 2nd turn.

as far as I remember it was never allowed to block a worm completely.

You could do this | / or \ |, but never | |.

Quote from: Gabriel on September 18, 2021, 10:28 PM

Quote from: ZorroX on September 18, 2021, 09:57 PM
Can somebody tell me if Girders squeezing worms vertically in the very 1st turn are allowed? They make it impossible for worms to leave their own girder, parachute anywhere or jump down. I have played around 20-30 Holy war matches in past and I remember always seeing girders placed around the enemy in a \_/ shape or \/ shape (bowl or V).

It seems to me that |.| it's nothing but a block, since the worm is stuck. If that was allowed, nothing stops the player from giving ultra tight 2x vertical block glued to the worm from both sides, to paralyse it even more |.|. It would make no sense in the long run, since you can immobilise 2.5 worms per turn, and only 1 worm per turn can teleport out of its crevice. Whoever starts would always end up immobilising 5 worms of the enemy by the end of his/her 2nd turn.

as far as I remember it was never allowed to block a worm completely.

You could do this | / or \ |, but never | |.

Exactly, I was always told the same, especially watching some people play this scheme on Worm Olympics in 2014-2016. Horizontal block is supposedly banned but I would much rather be blocked horizontally because I could at least launch parachute and fly somewhere down to bottom enemy/platform or just build a secret platform below that would be beyond the reach. 2x Horizontal blocks leave your 5 worms 100% useless in the 2-turns span, useless until they all waste 5 turns teleporting one by one somewhere (and again they would be only be valid pawns if they teleport to the top border of the map, where they can no longer be blocked).

Holy War rules exist exactly because of these silly situations, where you can just block enemies with no counterplay, and potentially make the game last for hours.

I remember a Girder17 WO tourney (played in the same map setup, empty with girders) where games would last for hours just because of the continuous blocking, and we only had regular girders (no 5x packs like in Holy War).

maybe instead of having inf ammo of girder and girder pack, ammo 5 for girder pack, and ammo 5 for girders? so the blocks wouldn't last for too long. this scheme is just getting too strict this way, to the point its unenjoyable with these rules

Quote from: Lupastic on September 18, 2021, 11:57 PM
to the point its unenjoyable with these rules

Who finds it unenjoyable? I don't think I have met anyone that had problems with the current rules.

Quote from: Gabriel on September 19, 2021, 01:12 AM
Who finds it unenjoyable? I don't think I have met anyone that had problems with the current rules.

cuz noone really plays it like that at all? have you ever seen anyone playing holy war in AG in under such conditions like these?

Quote from: Lupastic on September 19, 2021, 01:24 AM
cuz noone really plays it like that at all? have you ever seen anyone playing holy war in AG in under such conditions like these?

This is a league not #AnythingGoes, people tend to play leagues with league rules here, not house rules that make schemes more luck based like for example the people who use house rules in Hysteria with 'jetcow/jetcide/telecow/telecide'.

Quote from: Lupastic on September 18, 2021, 11:57 PM
this scheme is just getting too strict this way, to the point its unenjoyable with these rules

If this scheme had no rules, nobody would be able to throw a single Holy granade upwards, since girder pack would annihilate all 5 worms of your enemy. The winner would be chosen stricte by the starting positions of the worms. The scheme is fantastic when played just how Gabriel described it, via |./ or \.| blocks.

Komito also made a valid point that league schemes are a bit peculiar.

Quote from: Lupastic on September 19, 2021, 01:24 AM
cuz noone really plays it like that at all? have you ever seen anyone playing holy war in AG in under such conditions like these?

Can you stick to the topic? We are talking about TUS here.

If you still want to get evidence of people playing with these rules, you can look at this:

http://2010.wormolympics.com/tournaments/show/30#results

As of 2010 people were playing with those rules already. If people have forgotten them due to lack of activity (and the culture of teaching newcomers instead of booting them), that's another topic. And (as of today) I am not an active player, so I can't really say I have seen anyone play Holy War in #AG so far.

Edit: I can't seem to find the "screenshot" referred in that link. I'm sure it was a .png with some girder setups, but I can't find it.

Quote from: Gabriel on September 19, 2021, 02:14 AM
Can you stick to the topic? We are talking about TUS here.

If you still want to get evidence of people playing with these rules, you can look at this:

http://2010.wormolympics.com/tournaments/show/30#results

As of 2010 people were playing with those rules already. If people have forgotten them due to lack of activity (and the culture of teaching newcomers instead of booting them), that's another topic. And (as of today) I am not an active player, so I can't really say I have seen anyone play Holy War in #AG so far.

Edit: I can't seem to find the "screenshot" referred in that link. I'm sure it was a .png with some girder setups, but I can't find it.

the reason why it has been inactive so far (and will be) is because of these rules you can be pretty sure, no one will really ever play this under these tus rules, and it's no wonder

Quote from: Lupastic on September 19, 2021, 02:37 AM
the reason why it has been inactive so far (and will be) is because of these rules you can be pretty sure, no one will really ever play this under these tus rules, and it's no wonder

You can't really prove this point

How do you know it isn't because the scheme is slow paced?
How do you know it isn't because newcomers love using explosive and flashy weapons?
How do you know it isn't because most people find the scheme boring?
How do you know it isn't because of the rules?

Of course you are entitled to your beliefs. I myself would rather not get all of my worms blocked during the first two turns (because now, due to people using the WormOrder module, they know who to block first). Holy War never was what you would call a popular scheme. I remember knowing exactly 3 people that played it consistently, those 3 being Phanton, Chelsea and Dmitry. And I remember all 3 of them agreeing with the rules; but that doesn't prove anything. I think I am just going to test the scheme myself, to see if it is even playable without the actual rules.

 

wkWormOrder strikes again!

Quote from: Komito on September 19, 2021, 03:13 AM


wkWormOrder strikes again!

I mean, they could always use the code some guy posted, but the point is the same.