Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 02:19 PMI'm glad that Abnaxus changed his view on the controlled demolition theory.  It's a breath of fresh air when people actually change their mind on something.

I never said this theory was true (don't forget it still was theory), but it neither was wrong.

At least since you provided me some real proofs that it couldn't be possible (well, it still is possible, but it fell down from 50% chance to 3%).

I can easly change my mind when people give me proofs, but it's rare they get real ones. I'm not stubborn to the point of being blind.  

Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 02:19 PMI was hoping that someone might show me something to shake my perspectives.  That would be interesting.

We can't. It's just about thinking & logic.

Imagine you arrive in a new planet, and you see one and only one sheep, which is black. It could means:
- There is only black sheeps on this planet (you can't know at all, so you just wonder).
- There is only one black sheep on this planet (you got very big luck to fall on it, so it's 5% chance).
- There is some black sheeps & some other ones (there again, you can't know until you get new proofs).
You can take either of the possibilities, BUT without forgetting the 2 other ones.

People often take one and forget the other possibilities, that's were they are wrong (and where you were).

I hope it's now cleared.


PS: Wtf is this song Husk ? xD

Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 01:19 PMYou misundestood my good game.  I didn't mean that I had won this debate.  I mean how can I disprove something which has no evidence.  It is gg for this reason.

In fact you did (except if I really missunderstood, but not for the reason you gave).
I understood the "gg" was like a "i give up, you won". But you're wrong saying that, since there is no winners in such a debate.


@MI:
I don't know how it started. But when I entered, it was to respond to Cueshark who was thinking it was clearly not a conspiracy.
So I just wanted to proove he was wrong (doesn't mean it's a conspiracy, but it could be one).
If you (not personnaly you MI, but everybody who didn't) had done some "logic", you would understand easly.

I guess the debate was if it was a conspiracy or not.

But since we don't have any evidences on both sides, we just give our opinion (which worth nothing but our beliefs).


Darkz summarized pretty well this:

Quote from: darKz on May 10, 2011, 02:45 AM
An argument about a subject without any convincing proof is useless. It's gonna go in circles from here on. Let everyone have their opinions I say.

Quote from: Abnaxus on May 09, 2011, 10:06 PMToo finish, we don't want you to change your mind (at least me).
I just want you to realize that yeah, we don't any evidences about the conspiracy, but you neither don't have any about what they said or showed.
So both could have happenned.
That's all I'm trying to say since the start.

Cue, the very sad thing is you didn't get where I wanted to go. Even if I clearly told you what it was.

Plus you continued on this actor thing. But there was a "or" in my sentence, continued by "real Al-Quaida members".
Since you have no real evidences of nothing, except what people have told you, everything could have happenned.
Do never get what people say as an evidence, that's where you're wrong.

Anyway, I give up...

Quote from: Random00 on May 10, 2011, 12:41 PMToo bad that there is never some 100% proof in the real world (Math for the win haha), but if there are enough evidences for some point I personally think that it's true then

True, but the thing is both sides (conspiracy and not) have no real evidences at all.
So do not choose one or the other. Just keep it in mind, but don't bother. Except if you get the power enough to find those evidences we miss (but no one there has).


PS: I'm really sad about your "so gg". Though you could be more objective (as you did on other debates), I was wrong.

PSS:You think the conspiracy is even more complex everytime I answer you, but I've never tell you all of the possibilities (just cause I can't, it's too long).
But since start, I've never said it was a easy one.
A conspiracy of this magnitude can't be easy, and has to be very complex if you want it to work. And they get the power to do it (I guess I should have started with this).
Btw, isn't a well made conspiracy complex by his definition ?

PSSS: I'd like to ask you one last question. If I tell you the human can move object without touching a thing, will you think there is a chance it's true ? What will be your answer ?

Cue.... I'll give up soon if you don't make efforts to understand... I really think you put a veil on it, and you miss a lot doing this..

When a FBI agent is in tailing, do you really think he had an audition before ?..

Plus, I don't think they really said "Allah is the greatest", especially for Al-Quaida members. But "Allah akbar" (the same, but in arabic).

Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 03:25 AMThe criminals in 9/11 were terrorists that had their own biographies which you can freely read about if you wanted to.  To even suggest that they could be actors shows that you don't really take this seriously.

The thing I wonder is, how can you tell this ? Have you seen these terrorists ? Do you know them personnaly, or some members of their family ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only clues you get are from videos/"sound tape"/text TV or Web showed you.
So it's not a sure source.

Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 03:25 AMYou say things that really are not true and a simple web search would show this to be the case

So you believe everything's on the web ? Take care dude...
If it really was a conspiracy, they planned very freakin' goodly this, so it means there would be almost no evidences of it, from papers to web.
They wouldn't take a single risk to let this getting found.
A single error and it's their end.

Objective:

Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 12:43 AMOk, well if it's real Al-Quaida members then they're not actors.

That's why I used a "or" ? o0
Do you really read my posts ? Or is my english that bad ? <.<

Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 12:43 AMPlus I don't think you're going to get many actors willing to stab and murder people like the terrorists did.  They didn't just ask nicely for permission to fly those planes.  They murdered.

If some terrorists have been able to stab and murder people, why can't some pro USA ?
The government could give them the right to fly those planes. The "drivers" could have been involved in the conspiracy too.
Nothing can proove the contrary.

Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 12:43 AMOk so in your mind right now it is more likely that the government organised those plane crashes.

Why right now ? It has always been this, but I never told you (or maybe I said it once, don't remember and can't watch the previous posts).

Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 12:43 AMWould you mind if I show you compelling evidence that this is probably not true?

You don't need, I know (without any evidences) that this might be not true.

Subjective:
Actually, with what I know (and IMO, so it means it's not even 5% sure (since I have no evidences)), it's around:
- 70% about a government act (involving terrorist or not).
- 30% about a terrorist act (and the truth can be into those 30%, don't missunderstand).
It's just about clues and feeling.


PS: I'll use those marks everytime, so you won't missunderstand anymore.

I don't know how it works in the USA, but I can tell you that French politicians don't care of the country or people, but only of their wallet.

I miss the "De Gaule" I have in mind. :/

Quote from: Bob MarleyWe're sick and tired of your ism and skism game
Die 'n' go to heaven in the Jesus name, Lord
We know when we understand
Almighty God is a living man
You can fool some people sometimes
But you can't fool all the people all the time
So now you see the light
You stand up for your rights

Thanks for the images, I exactly needed those one to put the bomb theory out (at least at the base).

But imo (this is my though there), the government organized those plane crashes (could be actors or real Al-Quaida members).
I don't have any evidences, but: there is no war, only earnings.

Don't you find the "conversation" weird ?

Plus, I think religion has nothing to do with deaths. At least if everybody could respect eachother religion.
The biggest killer has always been and will always be the Human (except if some E.Ts come from another galaxy).

If Human wasn't so greedy, the world would be so much better..

Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 09:04 PM
I attacked your words but I did not attack you directly.

Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 08:27 AMI could not disrespect those innocent people like you do.

This insult is worst than 90% of the known insults in my eyes.

Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 09:04 PMI understood that you made a firm claim that the Flight 93 was part of the conspiracy.  A deliberate loss of life by the government to make the rest of the conspiracy seem more convincing.  You made that claim didn't you?

It sounds like you are now saying that you were just exploring the different possibilities.  If this was the case and I misunderstood you then this is my fault and I apologise once again.

Quote from: Abnaxus on May 09, 2011, 12:57 AM
I'd like to add to HHC posts, that a plane were supposed to on the pentagon. But for unknown reasons, he himself near it.

It's like a "Look ! They tryed to kill me, I can't be the killer !". But it's just a "try", so it doesn't mean anything.

Quote from: Abnaxus on May 09, 2011, 01:34 AMThat's it. At least it could be and would fit with the rest.

Too finish, we don't want you to change your mind (at least me).
I just want you to realize that yeah, we don't any evidences about the conspiracy, but you neither don't have any about what they said or showed.
So both could have happenned.
That's all I'm trying to say since the start.

@Cue,
This is filth 'cause they are flith.
Just put yourself in their shoes, with their power, their money, their past and their mind. And you would easly think they could have done such a horrible thing (doesn't mean they did, I repeat myself (as I always do)).
Plus, on what did you get your "proofs" ?
- Videos: I don't think so. Anyway, they could have made it (a movie is easy to make).
- Sound: Is it that hard to make a false tape ?
- If you saw it by yourself (which I doubt), then you're right.
The only thing I did was to enumerate the different possibilities, without being biase one single second (except when I said it). Then you "attacked" me personnaly.

It's clear you can't get your emotions out of this discussion. And if you can't be objective, there is no need to debate.
To finish, I agree we should stop talking (I let you the last word, I guess you want it badly).


@MI,
Since he said the worst insult towards me, I sure am in right to react that way.
I've never blamed Maciej, DT or anybody else when they insulted back.
Eye for eye, teeth for teeth, that's how the world should work (and it works this way for me, whatever anybody thinks, even there).

You know I really don't mind of getting banned, and you also know I don't deserve anything about this last post.
Then, if you get offended by what I just said, you're free to do whatever you want.

If nobody starts, nobody answers.

Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 08:27 AMI could not disrespect those innocent people like you do.  On so many levels what you write is filth.

Wtf !? Are you kidding me there ? You really got me angry there.
Because you really think letting as it is, without even trying to find the truth is respecting the innocent who died faggot ? You should be happy not being in front of me when you said that.

I try to help innocents everytime I can and you say I don't respect them ? Seriously, go get a brain & burn yourself.
It's cause of people like you if many good people died. Saying there are horrible to get the world against them. f@#! you, really.

USA had many members of Al-Quaida as prisoners. A single deal and it was done. There is tons of possibilities for a conspiracy. If you prefer keep a veil on it, then do it, I f@#!ing don't mind anymore.

Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 01:17 AMSo now you're suggesting (rather jokingly) that the crashed plane (Flight 93) was a kind of deliberate error just to make the conspiracy more convincing?

That's it. At least it could be and would fit with the rest.

I'd like to add to HHC posts, that a plane were supposed to on the pentagon. But for unknown reasons, he himself near it.

It's like a "Look ! They tryed to kill me, I can't be the killer !". But it's just a "try", so it doesn't mean anything.

I didn't well understood what's saying on the link, but I guess you don't need so much people to do such a thing.

A blitz attack conspiracy well planned would work with a group of 10 people. Even for the twin towers.
They wouldn't be able to find any bomb clues because of the fall of the towers, all the products it contained and the "sand" cloud.

It's as plausible as a terrorist act.

PS: If it really was a conspiracy, what do you think people would say in this current debate ?
Nothing more and nothing less than what we already said. Just cause we don't know, and it's 50-50.

PSS: IMO (this is not objective anymore), government engaged some guys to commit this "terrorist" act (just the planes). Just so they could get petrol access.
Do I have any clues ? Nop, it's just my point of view.

You don't need to pay a lot of people: A "terrorist" to hijack the plane, and a group to land bombs in the building (and tons of mouth shut).

It's sure I know nothing about it except what I saw (not heard), but there is too much weird things in such cases.

And we all know they don't give us the whole/real story, which means they get something to hide. So why would I believe them ?

Anyway, I can't find the point which makes you feel it's implausible.