So far barman has been the only one to address my stats. If roper is so lucky, how can the top 10 overall ropers have such a high win percentage? One that is comparable to all the other schemes and even comparable to ttrr?

Crates to not hurt the better roper, they help the better roper.

Plop 9:20

I don't see how rating change holds any significance of luck factor. Could you explain this further.

Quote from: barman on May 07, 2012, 02:23 PM


These numbers make me think that comparing the top 10 players' winning percentages is not a good idea to measure how does luck affect the scheme. Players who dominate their favorite schemes are a bad test sample.

Why? Why are they a bad test sample?

I would think the top 10 would be the best test sample since there skill is the highest and luck should play a smaller role.

How do you jump to the conclusion that looking at point distribution has any significance on luck factor? Would winning % not make a little more sense. The more the luck, the lower the winning percentage should be, right?

Been feeding your bulls steroids? auhauh muito comedia amigo

Ok so roper is the luckiest scheme there is eh? Lets look at the numbers.

TTRR is widely considered the least luckiest scheme. So the top 10 overall winning percentage should be much higher then in roper right?

1      f4st      77   60   17   77.92%   -1   +15/-3   2576   
2      sock   cFc   368   239   129   64.95%   +20   +20/-13   2553   
3      Dulek   ps   85   64   21   75.29%   +2   +20/-5   2500   
4      Random00   CF   159   131   28   82.39%   +7   +24/-3   2417   
5      dibz   mm   244   210   34   86.07%   +5   +45/-4   2360   
6      franz   CF   137   101   36   73.72%   +4   +13/-4   2319   
7      Flori   ps   191   154   37   80.63%   +2   +23/-4   2255   
8      ZiPpO      290   221   69   76.21%   -2   +29/-6   2254   
9      barman   mm   103   90   13   87.38%   +7   +23/-3   2196   
10      ArtiC   cFc   286   233   53   81.47%   -2   +32/-9   2128

The average winning percentage of TTRR is 78.603%

Roper should obviously be much much lower since its so lucky and you will lose so often because of luck. Lets look at the numbers.

1      ZiPpO      400   300   100   75%   +5   +17/-4   2365   
2      Crazy   TdC   180   115   65   63.89%   +7   +10/-5   2272   
3      Dulek   ps   75   60   15   80%   +6   +16/-3   2254   
4      Random00   CF   116   102   14   87.93%   +5   +17/-2   2222   
5      dibz   mm   319   266   53   83.39%   +3   +31/-5   2222   
6      fr4nk   CKC   112   82   30   73.21%   -1   +17/-6   2131   
7      ArtiC   cFc   167   135   32   80.84%   +2   +25/-3   2096   
8      lalo   cFc   114   79   35   69.3%   +14   +18/-9   2054   
9      Crash   CKC   281   189   92   67.26%   +7   +15/-7   2008   
10      franz   CF   73   52   21   71.23%   +3   +9/-4   1943

Ropers overall winning percentage is 75.205%. That's only 3 percent lower then ttrr? How is this possible for such a lucky scheme? How could people have such a high winning percentage when its so lucky? WOW?
      

Quote from: avirex on May 07, 2012, 02:19 AM
dub, it was a decent turn....

but i think Artics turn after yours was harder, and a better attack, and... not lucky :p

Yea. But you are missing the point. It's not a competition   I'm just hoping to show people that hard crates can be gotten and attacks can still be made. And I love roper and I love seeing awesome runs.

P.s wasn't lucky

t17 worked fine for me.

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on May 06, 2012, 08:12 PM
Dub-C, TUS has plenty of space to store stuff. But when the game is already submitted/reported on TUS, isn't it better to put the direct download link of it instead of attaching it again?

Yea, sorry. I wasn't thinking about taking up space.

I love seeing people get really hard crates and attack. Some people bitch, some people just go get them and find a way to attack. Lets see your runs!

I'll start it off from a clanner yesterday 7:32.
2012-05-05 22.27.20 [Online] Gwahton`CKC, @Dub-c, ArtiC`cFc``, cfcdaiNa.WAgame

Quote from: Statik on May 05, 2012, 09:42 PM

Quote from: Dub-c on May 05, 2012, 09:23 PM
Could you expand on this further? Do you have any experience playing ropers with higher fd?

I didn't play, but I can imagine higher fd in our game with Artic.. I would win much faster, because he didn't have time to make any fd to me. Also I failed more turns, but still easy win, the game shouldn't be flawless to be considered "lucky".

With higher fd maybe, perhaps, you would not have been hiding where you were. Maybe Artic would have attacked on some of the cr8s where he just missed an attack. Maybe he could have had nice drops on you and made up for a cr8?

 

Quote from: Statik on May 05, 2012, 09:09 PM
more fd + cr8 luck will be even worse :<

Could you expand on this further? Do you have any experience playing ropers with higher fd?

Quote from: franz on May 05, 2012, 08:49 PM
I agree, some maps are just not meant to hide in the absolute hardest hide. it's risk/reward when you use those hides. yes you may be safe from an opponent's hard crate, but you're risking harder crates for yourself every single time you hide there. so that's on artic. he also was roping less and less efficient as he got more and more frustrated. like dub said, it's far from a flawless game, you can't blame crates alone.

dub, I'll support what I believe in personally and I generally speak up about it. you should too, I haven't seen you make a fd thread yet. try to convince people.  personally, the only reason I can think of for increasing fd is to punish mistakes more harshly.  so yeah, I guess if that's what people want, why not?  I'm not personally all that against trying higher fd, but I think everyone, like me, just needs to feel convinced.

we've gone on too long just accepting things the way they are, so these discussions are always good in my eyes. I think it's healthy to improve schemes. major sports try to improve every year, so what's stopping us?  perhaps getting everyone to agree is the hardest part.

You see fd as a punishment for mistakes. I see more fd as a reward for skilled  knocks and drops for fd. If you did 10 fd damage 5 times throughout the entire game, this would make up for a bad cr8, or win you the game outright.

Quote from: Impossible on May 05, 2012, 09:01 PM
Roper - one of the luckiest scheme on tus and thats okay since luck is part of competitions ae!

You are new to roper. Maybe after a few thousand ropers your opinion would be more credible.

Quote from: franz on May 05, 2012, 08:17 PM

Quote from: Crazy on May 05, 2012, 07:24 PM
franz once, twice and three times made me example of a person who were lucky in ropers on XTC, that I had beaten players considered more skillful then me as a result of the crates. I wanted to use franz as punchingbag back then, because I don't really buy this luck talk for this scheme.

crazy, what?  I think your memories are starting to get really exaggerated, because I've never posted replays saying one person was lucky to win.  PM me if you like, we can clear it up once and for all ^^

as for 'lucky roper', I've never denied that there is at least some luck in roper, due to random crate drops.  but this will always be the case until someone invents a crateless roper, probably something similar to wxw. My main argument has always been that player mistakes overwhelmingly 99% decide games more than random crates. we're all human, so mistakes are not surprising.

I've already openly suggested some nice roper ideas, my main one being that 1v1's should have 2 worms per team to add to the strategy.  with two worm piles, like in clanners, it adds strategy and likely also would affect how people would approach random crates especially if another worm pile is nearby.

You can support adding another worm but you can't support higher fd? I agree with 2 worms per team like in clanner.