Quote from: TapstaR on April 26, 2012, 03:21 PM
Yes I left when I was going inactive again (thought I made a post, sorry if I didn't). nGr is where I belong  

no need to apologise, bOr is dead now but I thought there were 2 of us left xD

but yeh, good luck and have fun!

made me lol, j

I dont think we went off topic at all, we went IN topic in great detail, it was 1v3 too x)

+ I did mention that peja

Quote from: NAiL on April 26, 2012, 08:41 PM
I dont assume people who play TUS won't vote, I know they dont because whenever there is a poll the number of votes NEVER adds up to the actual number of people who are playing tus (even in that one season).

Quote from: Jakka on April 26, 2012, 06:59 PM
too f@#!ing blind to see it.

Quote from: NAiL on April 26, 2012, 06:53 PM
Im all for trying inter in the classic, just really cannot see it working but who knows maybe ill be proved wrong.

Jakka, I said already I would like intermediate to be a part of the classic league, but I just dont see it working thats why I voted no (my opinion, please accept it especially when ive explained).

You dont need to tell me how creative the scheme is... I know... just from a functional point of view a bo3 scheme does not work well in a bo1 multi scheme league and the previous attempt showed this.

Why wont ONL merge? Why you guys still being so stubborn? It would help your cause of getting inter to the classic league if people saw it being played competitively. You know ive been asking you guys to merge... for years, I dont see why you still refuse, I really dont.

Im all for trying inter in the classic, just really cannot see it working but who knows maybe ill be proved wrong.

Anyway ive said everything I can say here, im done.

I expected better from you, I see you have nothing more to say so you accept my opinion which is good.

You must realise that you put me on the defensive, and if you talk down to me ill treat you with the same respect in my posts.

lesson learned eh 8 )

+ Dario I dont know how you work this stuff out but thats interesting info indeed.

Quote from: lacoste on April 26, 2012, 04:51 PM
You just keep repeating. The difference on me and you is that i believe its a good time to try it out once again even though im not sure about the result, but its worth it. You keep standing on your point like you would be so sure about it, believing in a public poll where you dont even know who voted and bringing some failed attempt from 3 years ago when league was created and barely started breathing.

right.

So you want it because you think "its a good time to try it". Good one.

The whole point of this thread was to see what people wanted, they were given an opportunity to vote. The majority of people so far have voted against it. Despite the fact that most people have voted against it you still seem to think "its a good time to try it".

Im using the poll (the main point of this thread), and my experience from what happened in the past as a basis to form my decision (I have every right to), and you wanna criticise me for that. :/

This is a POLL THREAD, yet you tell me to ignore the results of the poll, right... If the poll was in favour of adding inter would you still be saying ignore the poll? No you wouldnt so stop that.

Im entitled to my opinion, ive used facts and reasoning to justify my opinion (over and over), yet you just wanna tell me to stfu, "its a good time to try".

Dont shoot the messenger. If you dont agree with me make your own case with you own reasons like Mablak did, dont tell me not to say what I've said because ive already validated my reasoning over and over again, the only reason ive had to repeat myself is because people like you wanna tell me "you're wrong it might work", regardless of the facts.

Stop MAKING me repeat myself, by all means give inter ago (even though most people have voted no), just ignore the poll like you said lacoste because we dont know who voted. Yeh MI actually ignore the poll, ignore the data you set out to collect by creating this thread, ignore what happened in the past, add inter to the classic league, its "a good time to try".

Quote from: lacoste on April 26, 2012, 03:45 PM

Quote from: NAiL on April 26, 2012, 12:48 PM
When inter was part of the classic league before it didnt work...

What makes you think that after 3 long years of TUS evolution (and WA community in general) Inter still has no place in classic league coz it failed at the beginning, when player base and players mentality about the scheme was low? Please dont say "coz poll says so". Also dont mention things like best of x and bla bla for the 10th time, im wondering why you keep repeating about the past in every sentence.

So, dont use the most recent poll as a basis to form a decision?

dont use what happened in the past as a basis to from a decision?

what should I use then lacoste?

Poll is clear, wanna stick inter in anyway?

Ive explained my reasoning (as you know), instead of telling me not to use common sense to arrive at a decision, you explain why im wrong to say what ive said, and you tell me why it would be a good idea to add it when the majority dont want it, go ahead... otherwise your post is useless.

oh you also left bor x(






gj hf

wut? whatever

fair play mab^

Quote from: Jakka on April 26, 2012, 06:55 AM
Yeah these russian guys...
Maybe you don't see it working, but I do. In fact I know people who'd join TUS and play fairly actively in it without complaining about having to play other schemes as well.

Also, you last point is pretty narrow minded. If somebody is new to worms, learns wxw, sticks to it and joins tus (and yeah this happens often enough) then suddenly a wild Phantom appears and picks hysteria. Now explain me how it's okay to be forced to play other schemes if you a are eg a WxW player and why is it different with Inter pickers. I'll go even further and say that many of players who joined TUS years ago still stick to one to two schemes they like and feel raped mentally (exaggeration) when people pick schemes they don't like. Yet TUS works pretty well for them.

wut?

I get the feeling you dont like me (since before this thread).

How was my last point "narrow minded"? My point was many inter players only like to play normal... even in this thread an NNN member spoke of how the normal community segregated themselves.

Mablak spoke about the "Russian community" of inter players who may sign up to TUS if inter is added, my point was would they want to play other schemes... would they understand the concept of the classic league etc... nothing "narrow minded" about that.. dno why your talking about a wild phanton... wtf u on?

Quote from: Jakka on April 26, 2012, 06:55 AM
I'll go even further and say that many of players who joined TUS years ago still stick to one to two schemes they like and feel raped mentally (exaggeration) when people pick schemes they don't like. Yet TUS works pretty well for them.

Now that is narrow minded.

Quote from: Jakka on April 26, 2012, 06:55 AM
Maybe you don't see it working, but I do

yeh i dont see it working? why? because we tried it as part of the classic league before, and guess what... thats right, it didnt work, thats why I dont see it working. You can see the poll results right? Most people dont want it in the classic league, the ones that do are divided as to how it should be if it were to be part of the classic league.

When inter was part of the classic league before it didnt work, like I said, it wasnt popular enough amongst the majority of TUS CLASSIC players, nothing "narrow minded" about me saying that, its the truth. People refused to play inter, people couldnt agree on whether to play bo1 or bo3 or bo5... you would get a different amount of points depending on how many rounds you played, it was a big mess.

So yeh dont tell me im narrow minded thanks, cos I like inter, I base my judgement from past experience not from personal bias, like I said.

Quote from: Mablak on April 26, 2012, 05:27 AM
What are you talking about Nail? Currently the majority appear to want it in. Poll says 26 want it versus 25 who don't, and among those 25 there are surely some who would at least try it out, and there are also some who assume it'd have to be bo1 or bo3 and don't like the particular option they've assumed. But granted, not as many people vote in these polls as we want, and not all of them have the greatest idea of what's best for the community.

You've got to think long term, we always need new blood. We have shopper in the league mostly to lure in those fresh noobies. But it's not working out at the moment, as MI has said its activity is way low. Inter has similar potential to lure in newcomers, and it's one of the most hosted schemes. Looking at HostingBuddy statistics shows Inter is the 2nd most hosted, and Shopper is the 1st: http://stats.worms2d.info/hbschemes.html.

If shopper's not working out right now, we should try inter again. As I've said before, there's an ever-growing Russian community that loves intermediate, and we have the potential to grab some of them. And now I think bo2 would be a good compromise between bo3 and bo1, as Dario suggested. MI would just have to find some way for us to report 1-1 outcomes. bo2 would ensure the average match lasts about 35 mins, probably on par with T17.

You quoted my whole post but only responded to one point. I responded to your point about replacing shopper with inter and how that isnt fair. The majority does not want it, if you say that out of the people who voted no outright some will try it, out of the people who voted yes but only bo3, some of those people are not going to play without bo3, and out of those who voted "yes but it needs tweaking", some of those will not play because it all depends on what the tweaks are. We can see people have reacted negatively to proposed "tweaks" and they won't play if they aren't happy with the scheme. Im counting the "yes but only bo3" votes as obsolete because bo3 inter is NOT going to be part of the classic league and we all know that.

The main point I made was that we tried intermediate as part of the classic league before, you could choose how many rounds you wanted to play, it didnt work. It isnt fair to force people to play two rounds if they dont want to, im repeating myself here, it just wont work. I agree with dub, I cannot see how adding intermediate to the classic league is going to attract new players. Everyone who wants to play it competitively is already doing so on ONL, and most of those players have no interest in playing other schemes. Repeating myself.. it wont work, we tried it before and it didnt work, what we should be discussing is what is going to replace TEL. These russian guys... they will join TUS just to pick inter in the classic league and then be forced to play ttrr and wxw..? Just dont see it working.

Id like TNL to come back or ONL to merge with TUS as I keep saying, I think thats best for intermediate on TUS.

Quote from: KoreanRedDragon on April 26, 2012, 02:51 AM

Quote from: NAiL on April 26, 2012, 02:11 AM
Shopper has as much right to be there as any other scheme and I dont see the logic of replacing it with a completely different scheme.

But more right than Intermediate? Why?

If you're going to assume that there are people out there who play TUS but won't vote in this poll even though they'd vote against Inter, someone is sooner or later going to point out that there's likely an even larger number of people who don't even play TUS currently but might start if Intermediate becomes an option. In fact, this has probably been mentioned already.

KRD, I clearly stated my reasoning for not wanting inter in the classic league.

My primary reason is that the majority of classic league players dont want it there. I dont assume people who play TUS won't vote, I know they dont because whenever there is a poll the number of votes NEVER adds up to the actual number of people who are playing tus (even in that one season).

You say people might start playing TUS because of inter, I doubt that. As Mab already said the die hard inter guys already play it on ONL, they play ONL because they dont like other schemes, only Inter! Sure, there may be the odd person who starts playing TUS CLASSIC because of inter, but everyone who is into inter is already playing inter on ONL and have been for years.

"someone is sooner or later going to point out that there's likely an even larger number of people who don't even play TUS currently but might start if Intermediate becomes an option. In fact, this has probably been mentioned already."

I really dont think so, has there even been one person in this thread who has said they will start playing if inter is added? There hasnt (correct me if im wrong), even if they did, just look at the voting, they are already outnumbered.

YES, shopper does have more right to be there because its always been there, the majority of players want it there, its bo1. Intermediate has not been a part of the classic league in any league ever before (except on tus and it failed). Now I like inter, I used to play ONL as you said, but it just doesnt work as part of a classic league when you need to play more than one round. This isnt me not wanting it because I dont like it, I dont want it because it doesnt work. Im all for brining back TNL or merging ONL, but we tried inter in the classic league and it didnt work and its not going to work if we try again for reasons that have been discussed time n time again.

Intermediate is not popular enough amongst the majority of TUS CLASSIC players to warrant it being given a place in the classic league, shopper is. If everyone was willing to play an hour long bo3 game of inter then it would work, as we can see by the votes (and what happened when inter was a part of tus classic) people are not always willing to play bo3 and I dont blame them. Personally, if everyone was happy to play bo3 I'd love inter to be part of the classic league. From past experience I know this not to be true, so no matter what id like I can see it wont work. Intermediate was a part of the classic league when TUS first started (you wernt around then), and it didnt work. I realise that this thread discusses potential changes to make it work, yet we cant agree on the changes, the community is divided as shown by the votes. This isnt my personal bias... im just being logical here.

Quote from: Mablak on April 26, 2012, 12:52 AM

Quote from: NAiL on April 26, 2012, 12:42 AM
inter just will not work as part of the classic league, thats all! As good as this discussion is, it just won't work, most classic players do not want to play intermediate, let alone 2 or 3 rounds. As much as I respect the scheme, it really does not belong to the classic league and I think the voting so far reflects this. Bring back TNL, merge ONL, just dont add it to the classic league as we tried it before and it didnt work and I dont see it working if we try again.

Why don't we test it and see? TUS isn't a 100% serious league, so who cares if it doesn't get played much and has to be removed after a season or two, there is lots of room to try things out. All we have to do is replace shopper with inter, I'm sure inter can exceed that level of activity.

Well we tested it before, and it didnt work out!

Sure we can try again... but to me this whole thread seems like a big waste of time when we consider the majority of people playing the classic league dont want intermediate as part of the classic league. Im all for inter being played, its a great scheme, but it needs bo3 minimum, it needs its own league, as ive said bring back TNL, merge ONL so TUS guys can see how competitive it is and what a beautiful scheme it is. As for replacing shopper with inter, why? Shopper has as much right to be there as any other scheme and I dont see the logic of replacing it with a completely different scheme.

I still stand by my idea... bo1 with placement. It would be a big tweak, change the dynamics a lot but the scheme would still work and to me it seems the only way of incorporating it into the classic league. I saw people turning their nose up at this idea, dno why, I understand schemes, I understand its a big change, but it seems the only way of doing things if you want it as part of the classic league. It would definitely be interesting.

I dont know why im bothering though, because I dont want it in the classic league and nor do I think the majority of classic league players want it in the classic league. We shouldn't be discussing this, we should be discussing what is going to replace TEL. Like I said despite the good points, this thread seems like a waste of time when im almost certain the majority of players dont want inter in the classic league and im confident the voting will reflect this (if it hasnt already). We should also consider the fact that loads of tus players wont even bother voting, or even read this thread.

I saw this thread and faceplamed because I thought "here we go again", its inevitable to me that the majority of players won't want it in the classic league so I braced myself for a big old debate that in the end is just futile. I also dont like the sudden shake up over "scheme classes", sprung about due to a "I hate hyst thread", seems like that one thread is leading to lots of spin off threads when no shake up is required, league is fine the way it is imo, I see no problems.