Im glad you didnt respond to anything I corrected you on, thats good, saves us going round in circles.

Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 08:00 PMWho do I talk to to be part of this community?

You dont talk to anybody, you participate.

You say you've been alpha testing, good for you. Last time I checked most of the aplha testers were elitist douchebags who had the fortune of playing WA at a certain time in their lives.

Fact remains you havent been a part of the competitive worming community for the last 5 years, so as you've said you dont know whats gwaning in this community. You havent been hosting games, you're not familiar with many of the players, you're not aware of the scene.

You havent been participating, you've been occasionally checking the forums. This is fine, but dont preach like you know when you clearly dont.

Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 08:00 PM
edit: I will admit I have been a bit disconnected from it all for the last two years whatsoever.

Finally some humility, we're getting somewhere.



@Ray: I still fail to see how this is a serious issue. There is no mass complaining about people not understanding the rules. If there was mass complaining about people not understanding the rules then you'd have a point.... but there isnt.

Its pretty simple to explain how a league works:

Player A: How league work?
Player B: You pick a scheme, we play it, then I pick a scheme and we play that. If you win you report it on the site.
Player A: Oh ok, ty for telling me how the league works.

I really think the point your raising is subjective to your personal experience, how many times have you played with people who dont understand how the league works?

As Ive said already ive encountered this problem maybe once or twice in all my time playing TUS... if that.
Stop noob bashing if you keep playing people who are incapable of understanding a very simple system!

As you said practically nobody reads the rules, they simply learn as they play. There is nobody consistently playing TUS who doesnt understand how the "pick, pick, report" system works. On the rare occasion that somebody continues to ignorantly rule break then they will be told what they are doing wrong and they will stop! If they dont stop then its clear they are just abusing the system and they will be dealt with appropriately.

Seriously, how many examples can you give of a large problem with people not understanding the rules? Give me links to complaints, name names, give examples. I believe this to be a very minor issue that is rarely, if ever prevalent within the community.

Even if it were a big problem as you are saying, you still havent offered any solutions. The only thing you could do is make the rules more clear and in more languages, even though ive already shown how quick and easy it is for somebody to explain how a league works. If they STILL dont understand, then frankly they're either lying or they're completely thick and we'd be better off without people like that in the community!

Pick, Pick, Report. Its extremely simple!

I live in between Tottenham and Arsenal where this all started... f@#!ing disgraceful, we need to stop giving these people benefits.

Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 07:20 AMperhaps it's the most feature rich league, but that's not all there is to it.

So tell me what else there is to it... dont make brazen statements without any foundation.

As you said TUS is definitely the most feature rich league there has ever been, that is a good thing. I will admit that people are not as motivated to get PO games done as they used to be, but you cant blame TUS for that. This is an issue with the community at large, I guess people are not as eager to win POs as they used to be, this is noting to do with TUS.  Is this a bad thing? Yes it is, but again this has nothing to do with the design of TUS or the way TUS is run. The mods do a good job of trying their hardest to encourage peoplento get games done at the end of the season.

Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 07:20 AMD1, stop making excuses, you're better than that, notice the vocal new school? They're not living in the shoutbox and posting internet images from 2002 because society has evolved into this, it's because quality is not demanded, it's not even recommended.

"Vocal new school"

You are talking about a MINORITY of TUS users who like to spam the shoutbox and post troll threads. I dont like this any more than you do, but again this is not a product of TUS, this is a product of the current community as you stated, so I dont see how this is relevant to the workings of TUS which is what this thread was originally about.

I also dont see how a handful of people spamming the shoutbox is a big deal. Remember when MrE was hacking everyone? Remember when you got hax? Thats a far more serious issue than a few adolescents posting images in the shoutbox, would you not agree?

Also you're guilty of trolling, you are a troll. You are smart and articulate but you lack tact ropa, you have no tact and thats a crying shame. Remember when TUS first started and you were running your mouth all over the place talking shit (check trash can). So you are not one to talk about spam and trolling, as you're as guilty as the rest of them.

Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 07:20 AMNail will tell you that this ain't a problem, as you see, he's one of the many examples of someone actually believing the TUS propaganda. The phenom known as being actively new school. What is it, you might ask? Well, TUS shields itself against any kind of progress that isn't populistic and this scheme of working things out is flawed from its conception.

I have already said I dont condone spam and trolling that has plagued TUS as of late, but this is a community issue, not a direct consequence of the workings of the league. This is a MINORITY of users and isnt a reflection of the vast majority of TUS users. So yes this ISNT an issue, not a serious one anyway, and certainly not one that cant be corrected if it did become a serious issue.

"NAiL actually believes the TUS propaganda"

...wtf are you talking about, "propaganda", seriously. List examples of so called "TUS propaganda"... wtf are you talking about? This is a prime example of the nonsense you come out with sometimes.

I dont properly understand your last sentence, but TUS does not shield itself from progress, TUS is the only example of a league where the users can openly criticise and suggest new features... AND THEY WILL BE LISTENED TO! This is wonderful, this is democracy and this makes for a diverse and exciting number of ways to enjoy competitive games.

Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 07:20 AMWhy? Because if you're going to be a populistic authority, ideally you'd want the people to be insightful to the topics you're presenting them. But when you do nothing to educate them then I can't help but think things are being done wrong.

If you're talking about the league rules not being clear enough, or the design of TUS being quite maze like then I would agree. But again, this is not a serious issue, this does not affect the vast majority of TUS users. Most people know how the league works and most people who dont know will eventually learn, this isnt a serious issue but there is no harm in making the rules and workings clearer.

Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 07:20 AMThe best league WA has ever had? How are you measuring it, Nail? Games played? Well, it's also the league with the most complaints, probably the second league with the most bans. And not to mention other things that you probably can't grasp them being TUS fault, things like, lack of clan competitiveness, lack of motivation for Playoff completion, lack of debate in the forums and basically lack of everything other than playing games.

Yeah thats right, the best league WA has ever had. Three different leagues, cups, challenges, maps, files, tournaments, statistical analysis and comparison of a players performance.. Its also the most active league there has been thus complaints will rise proportionally, thats another irrelevant point. As to bans, how many people are permanently banned. Zero? I remember being banned numerous times from FB and im a nice guy.

The difference between me and you is that I have been actively playing this game since 2005. You stopped playing actively when I started, you havent been a proper part of the community for the last 5 years, I have. You are a spectator, I am a participant. You dont take part in competitive games any more, I do. You are an observer who likes to cast judgement and provoke reaction. You will often raise good points although you also make points that have no foundation and are based more on personal bias rather than actual facts, which is sad.

We agree on the fact that a lack of competitiveness (especially with regards to PO games) is a community issue, it has nothing to do with TUS, it was the same with XTC, its been like this for the last half decade, again, its a community issue and has nothing to do with the design of the league.

Let me make clear, I ACCEPT, that for you, and many other people, the golden age of worming is over. I UNDERSTAND, that back in the day everyone was more competitive and it was quite an achievement to win a season. The thing is, its not 2004, its 2011, things have changed. The community has changed since then, things are more diverse now, priorities are different. Dont confuse community issues with the workings of the league and dont assume its the league that determines the mind state of the community. A douche will be a douche whether he is told not to be or not.

Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 07:20 AMNice league indeed, as for its actual value to the community: other leagues have done infintely more

Infinitely more? Thats quite a statement, but can you actually back it up with examples of how other leagues have done "Infinitely more"?
I dont think you can, because its unfounded trash talk.

No other league creator has been as dedicated to their league as MI is. No other league has taken on criticism and suggestions and made them both tangible and functional like TUS has. TUS is standing the test of time and the site is constantly improving, I see no major problems with TUS.

The ORIGINAL POINT of this thread was about people not understanding how the league works, this is not a major issue and it certainly isnt unresolvable. In the years ive been playing TUS ive had a problem with people not understanding how the league works... maybe once or twice, and thats to be expected.

Do you really think thousands of games would be consistently played each month if TUS was doing something seriously wrong?

Yes I agree the rules and the league workings should be made as clear as possible, but I really dont think the issue you raise is that prevalent! There is no mass complaing about people not understanding how the system works, there may be a few problems but they are easily resolved and dont cause much of an issue.

The community is fine and TUS is the highest quality league WA has ever had. Dno wtf ropa is talking about but we all know he likes to play the provocateur for the sake of trying to look clever.

Worms is more active than its ever been, ofc your gonna get some guys who dont understand how it all works but they will learn. If they dont learn then they stop playing. In the years ive been playing tus I havent found this to be a problem ray. People not understanding how the league works doesnt seem to be a major issue. If they continue to play league games then they will learn eventually!

Sounds cool mate but you really gotta layer up more tracks to give it more texture. It also sounded like there where a lot of pre installed instruments used, especially the drums! Too much reverb on the kick drum made it sound soft, not snappy enough.

But for a first attempt, not bad! You really gotta spend some weeks on a track though, layer it up (especially for dubstep/dnb drums), the more tracks you have the better!

trl should have overall stats!

oO

free likes all this stuff, where that lad went? xD

I wanna try some salvia, dmt etc, but under the right circumstances. If you respect the herb (literally bow down to the herb and ask for protection and enlightenment) then you can have very life enhancing experiences!

people shouldnt be banned from the forum... a league ban is enough. At least give people a chance to respond and explain themselves...

haha, toasty should need no explanation!

the youth these days -.-

pal if 3 players want to come to the free league thats np for me xD

The free league is not active enough for this to be an issue. Adding another scheme is not going to turn the league into a jungle, it only stays true to the nature of the free league. If you can already choose from 30+ schemes, it doesnt matter if more are added.... thats what should be happening automatically!

The free league is much more relaxed than the classic league, if somebody really doesnt want to play a pick then its very likely their opponent wont mind changing it seeing as there is already a huge number to choose from. Loads of people ask for free league games that are scheme specific too. By this I mean you see people asking for "tus kaos"  etc..

Im waffling here but I really cant see the problem with adding more schemes to the free league... its a good thing to add more schemes to it, adding more schemes wont turn it into a jungle as it already is a jungle!

+ I didnt even look at the poll.... im not gonna play this scheme but 37 people voted yes... its a no brainer to add it!

I already said I cant defend someone using scripts in a league game (read pls), my point was there are MANY people who do things more deserving of a ban in my eyes.

I agree with a ban, but only til the end of the season.

I still think a final warning would be better, these 2 guys havent harmed anyone even if they used a script however many times...

There are players on this league who have terrible attitudes, noob bashers, avoiders, fake droppers... these people deserve to be banned more than a couple of guys who used a script to virtually no advantage...

wht bans?

I dont know whether he cheats or not (I dont care either tbh, how many other "cheaters" can rope like smok oO).

If he did use scripts in league games I cant defend that, but a ban seems too harsh for anyone, warning would be better.

smok is a nice guy, hes ok.