the great internet war of 2012... avi may be down, but he's still got some left in the tank! right now fr4nk is pissing all over him!

Quote from: Komito on August 13, 2012, 09:03 AM
ShyGuy, I asked the question out of personal curiosity, you got a problem with that?

You asked a an irrelevant question and then assumed your own answer to your own irrelevant question right after you asked it... We don't need god to judge if it is relevant to the debate... whether or not darkz/ropa stay inactive (I don't even think they are inactive) can not validate or invalidate arguments made for and against the scheme of hysteria, what is so hard to understand about this?  It's basic logic, and it's detrimental to an argument when you constantly throw red herrings into the pond... the fact that we are now arguing why your question is unimportant shows how damaging red herrings can be to a conversation.  Stick with the issue at hand and stop getting personal with every response

The numbers and facts have already been presented before... you keep countering with anecdotes... that's not how you win an argument... like this statement:

Quote from: Komito on August 13, 2012, 07:11 AM
ropa/darkz - If TuS made ALL the changes you ALL agreed on, would you play more, would you give up your lifes and get active? I seriously think if anything changed nothing would change, you would still be pretty inactive...

has nothing to do with the discussion at hand... what is the point in saying this?  Even if the premise is true and the changes are made and darkz and ropa stay inactive, that doesn't validate or invalidate the points they have made about the scheme... and this is why we can never have an effective debate when you enter the realm... it's honestly post after post of building straw men out of you

avi once sent me a picture of himself with like 3 cigarettes in his mouth and he said he was the coolest gangster

avirex is a sad little man, he once asked me to pee in a cup and send him a pick of it

democracy without critical thinkers is ineffective... when will the smartest wormers take over and make all the decisions for the greater good?

rofl

wait... komo is bullshitting??

my prime has yet to evolve.... i've only shown 30% of my power thus far!!

played this scheme about 6-7 more times today.  You really need to keep up with your opponent's damage output turn by turn or else you'll fall behind.  Out of all the games I played with this scheme, there were only a few instances where worm advantage was used, and it was after both teams expunged their 1 worm select.  It's a lot riskier to try to pile your opponent because you'd be surprised what you can do in 3 seconds if you are fast enough... so there is now more risk in piling your opponent since it isn't a guaranteed hit like it pretty much is in hysteria.  Overall the games were a lot more dynamic than hysteria with a lot of different weapon use and hectic button pushing to make the most out of your turn.  The moles really make it hard for you to darkside and jetpack attack every turn.

Quote from: darKz on July 08, 2012, 10:10 PM

Quote from: DarkOne on July 08, 2012, 12:17 PM

Quote from: darKz on July 08, 2012, 11:31 AM
Even with random turn order it's still possible to abuse piling to an extent but it's a step in the right direction.

Turn order abuse is also possible in shopper, elite, Team17 (in sd), Intermediate (if your opponent uses all his worm selects early on) and WxW. If you think turn order abuse is be definition a bad thing, then you should complain about the use thereof in those schemes as well You should be able to arm yourself against a certain degree of turn order abuse in every scheme.

I think the main problem everybody has with turn order abuse is that it's too powerful.

The thing is, in other schemes you have 20 or even 45 seconds turn time, that's lots of time to work on a countermeasure against the piling - i.e. rope to the pile and kill both worms, happens quite frequently in Elite. In Hysteria however you only have 1 second, which basically means you're screwed once you get piled.

And yes, that's why it's too powerful.

exactly what I was going to say.  1 second turns make piling a broken strategy.  Just reducing the turn time to 3 seconds helps a lot. 

This scheme is pretty good.  The moles are a great edition - lacoste and I played 3 or 4 times today, and an unsuspected mole shot ended two of the games when we were both trying to semi-darkside

I really can't play anything, my lags have only gotten worse.  I suppose I could install worms on one of my desktops, but it might take some days to get used to

Quote from: DarkOne on July 08, 2012, 03:39 PM


ShyGuy, you used the example of hysterias where avirex kills his worms at the start of the game. Have you ever tried a clan roper where your clan mate lags out/quits before the game starts? The same reasoning applies here - there are piles every turn and the 1 person team is probably more likely to win this round.

Interesting that you mention that.  If someone lags out or quits before a roper game, then it is usually rehosted.  However, there is no way you can manually and legally kill off yourself in the first turns of roper.  Me and avi even tested once: I would do as much damage to myself as possible with crate firebombs and fall damage to kill myself quickly to see if he could 1v2 win.  It never worked.  We even tested it in clanners, and we got slaughtered because it takes too long for one to kill himself, and the other team is double ganging the other worm in the meantime.  So that's what separates that example from hysteria.

Hysteria - Replace hysteria with an Aerial variation with 3 seconds, limited teleports, a few added weapons (including one worm select).

Elite - Remove mines and oil for more fair worm placement opportunity for player 2.  I know this will never happen in this community and I don't intend to argue it, don't worry.  But I would like to see the power of moles increased so much that they would do at least as much damage as they do in mole shoppas.  Increase the power of Old Lady and Sheep Launcher to 4 stars and maybe they'll see more play.  I'd like to see more super weapons be used in elite.  Also allow rope knocking.

Wxw - Ugh, such a stale scheme with all those linear maps.  I'd rather see big RR replace this since big RR promotes pure consistency, which is the goal of wxw but without the attacking with crates.  This would also balance the roping schemes - 2 schemes where you fetch a crate and attack and 2 schemes where it is just pure rope without worrying about combat.

T17 - There should be a rule against attacking first turn since sometimes one player can be out 1 (in some rare cases 2) just because he got unlucky with placements and happened to go second.  T17 is already considered a pretty lucky scheme, this is a simple rule to eliminate some very extra bad luck that can happen.  Also, when 4.0 comes out, definitely remove magic bullet, bananas, army, and vase.  If I had to eliminate just one, it would be magic bullet - you can't protect against it and it's a point and click brainless game winner.  I've also wondered how games would play out if both teams started with a homing missile.  I think this would detract from one of the best things about t17, which is trying to guess and determine what weapons your opponent has.  I would say increase the chance of getting homing missiles in the crates slightly.  Also allow rope knocking

Shoppa - the Tus scheme is awful.  I've made a thread about it already.  Eliminate fire punch and dragonball because they just suck ass when you are forced to leave your rope for only 30 damage.  Reduce chances of getting a shotgun, because for some reason the tus scheme has them very high. Bats are also annoying.  Reduce power on flamethrower so it doesn't do 2x more damage than the 2nd most powerful weapon.  Add weapons like homing missile and low powered cows.  

Bng - I've still played no rules bng, so I dont know if that would be better.  The girder rules in bng right now are really silly, forcing someone to waste turns to destroy the girder.  There seems to be a lot of complaints in bng.  Haven't done enough testing on this scheme yet to come to a conclusion.

TTRR - If someone wants to use precise timing, they should be allowed to.  Everything else is fine with this scheme

Roper - I support w2roper.  Roper is the worst scheme in the league, imo.  Same hides all game, mindlessly fetching crates, ridiculous first turn zook rule, and being forced not to attack because the game engine gave you an impossible crate.  If I had to change things about roper, I would eliminate the zook first turn rule... there's just no need for it and it can make you waste a turn if you get bad situational wind.  

Intermediate - I'm for it entering the league in a bo2 or higher form.  It's more classic than any other scheme, and surely it would attract newer people to playing tus competitively.  

+inf dragonballs
+inf drill
+2-3 girders (5 teles total if girders are added)


those would be my recommendations. drills and dragonballs couldnt hurt.

I edited my post, too, Komo

Quote from: Kaleu on July 07, 2012, 11:28 PM
Darkz what is the problem in Komo saying he pwns at BnG? He really does lol.
And my post was not nonsense, you and others just don't like the scheme, there's nothing wrong with it, you only must be smart to play it.

Why was your post not nonsense? Why do you think we just don't like the scheme, even after we shot down that statement? Why is there nothing wrong with it? Why you only must be smart to play it?  Why do you keep saying things without reason? 

If people are just going to blindly call us selfish and accuse us of not liking the scheme, I'm going to start getting down on their intellectual level and use the same type of argument.

You guys just want to keep hysteria as it is because you like it.  You're all selfish.  Isn't this just a great, worthwhile argument to read?