That's another thing Chicken, that would be truly cool, to have some of the best players in one league, playing competitively.

Anyway, I like Wooka's idea, about increasing the winning percentage needed for those who qualify with their overall points. That would make sense.

@Chicken,

Yea, But I don't believe on 'load of people come back' solution. The cure is applying little by little. If we care about this community, We try to make it better/Bigger by doing everything we can. The bigger we get, We make bigger fun. (and that's the least achievement)

imo, 'Oldschoolers' is a word and kinda like a fog above the community. If you ask me we created funny tales about some people that were good and it damaged our community more than you know.

Idolizing people by their skills, Made many damages to people.
First, When you idolize somebody you make it impossible for people to catch their level. (If they believe you, Which they will), You make them god, How can anybody reaches god's level?
Second,
You increase the number of 'funner' people. Funner people are who never play in a competition and always claim 'We play only for fun, It doesn't matter who wins'

I've never seen only one guy in this community who claims he always play for fun, But in a little serious game he wins. They always lose. Many people lost their 'winning' attitude, Which basically is same as self-esteem.

I once begged someone to play serious, All I get was: "He's been in the community before me, He's more experienced, I know I'll lose" 

People started to lose their self-esteem. Things like 'whatever skills you gain, There were oldchools in this community that they would pwn you with their thumb.'

Worms simply is a competitive game. Look at newbies. Most of them are like: 'Who can beat me'. All the guys I met playing worms at real life, All at first were like 'Can you beat me?'
Now look at the community, Bigger half of it are losers. Many of them have great skills, Really great skills, But their skill in a serious game reduces from 10 to 1. They created 'We only play for fun' to protect them from hurting.

Who says a serious game isn't fun? I believe it is even more fun. You get more excited, You focus more, You care where a crate is falling from sky. It's an amazing feeling. You only need to have 'losing capacity'.

Don't get me wrong though, I have nothing against funners. I know people who simply don't want to take part in a competition but that doesn't apply to the bigger half of this community. This attitude is just like a disease that has spread. Yet we continue making tales.

I really respect oldschools in this community and I'll be so glad to have them in this community, That's wonderful. But it doesn't mean they not being here is a negative point that makes us goto "downward spiral". I believe we are moving forward. We could use oldschools that care about this community not the ones who care about making a legend of themselves. TUS is open to anybody who wants to make this community bigger, 10 years player, Or 1 month.

So right again. Those people who started to make this attitude spread were the sW clan people as I saw it. Don't get me wrong, I am not pointing to people that they did something wrong, I am just saying.

Monkey, you get your "applaud" for this post.

Ray, I know Nullum and he is a great guy. I meant the attitude of 'funners' not fun communities. (I know you know, Just to clear this out)
They sure are great in their own way since they believe in roping style and that's an art.

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on November 03, 2009, 04:24 AM
Well he is talking about Flori. FLori is the first overall, Has his 50% winning percentage and have played enough games in this season. He lost 4 - 5 TTRR to Unique and went down. Maybe because soge doesn't know Flori history on TUS, Thinks it is this much unfair?

Yes, I still think it is unfair.   In a time where the amount of skilled wormers has declined, a ladder system like this only helps noob bashers and abusers of the system.  The reason why FB worked out was because you had so many highly skilled players who were competitive.  When you only have a handful of truly skilled players, the roll over of points from season to season shouldn't matter.  Just because flori was able to beat a bunch of scrubs throughout the seasons doesn't mean he deserves to be in the playoffs for having played at least 30 games and have a winning percentage of 50%.  

Let's just compare me and flori for example (and I don't mean to brag, but I think this is a good example because flori is an obvious abuser of the system)

this season
                                                     Sogeking      Flori
Points this season:                          1865          657
games played:                                   36             42
winning %                                         75%         76.19%
current stance this season:              6th            157th
# of people in the top 20 played:       6                2    
qualify for playoffs?                            no             yes

See what's wrong with this picture?
other notes that support my argument that this system is abused and flawed:
Flori's last 10 games were ttrr's against diana, which he gained 1 point, yes, 1 single point, for each victory.  
Flori, for whatever reason, only played 2 different people who were in the top 20 this season, and his record was 2-6, losing like 300 points.

If this league was filled with skilled players like the old fb was, people like Flori wouldn't be able to get away with crap like this.  
Having a community filled with less highly skilled players means 2 things:
1. it is easier to reach a 6000 point rank or "extremely high" rank like flori had, and
2. it is easier to sustain a 6000 point rank or "extremely high" rank and make playoffs with little effort with a broken system.  

If I was informed correctly, then I'm aware the qualification system for the playoffs enters the top 4 people that got the most points from a single season, and the top 4 people with the highest overall points make the season.  That may have seemed like a good idea early on in the league, but it is season 8... anyone that thinks it over can see that it has basically changed from fighting for 8 spots, to fighting for 4 spots while 4 other wormers sit on their ass and barely put any effort into making the playoffs cos they know they qualify anyway (once again, flori is the prime example.)  So here we have about 8-12 truly skilled and deserving players and only 4 spots to fill, while 4 other wormers get in the playoffs regardless of how well they do from here on out.

Either get rid of the rule where the top 4 overall points make the play offs, or change the amount of playoff spots there are.. but with the rate playoffs seems to get done here, I'd suggest trashing the former.
 

See.. sogeking just said his agrument in a mature fashion so don't bash him.

I think he has a point, the system is good but at the moment life is too easy for 4 playoff spots, and too hard for the other 4. But i don't think you should get rid of the the highest in overall stats making playoffs because they have put the work in to getting there. Also overtime the community will develope and it will be harder for flori to make playoffs. But at the moment i think sogeking does have a point that the tus system is great, but not for the current condition of the community as it is open to noobbashers and abusers.

I suggest three things to fix the issues sogeking has complained about..

• The playoffs are made up from top 6 of seasonal points, top 2 of overal.


• The playoffs selection stays the same, we see what happens with the added 50 games to reach them and a limit of 3/5 games per day vs same player (5 may be best?).


• Seeing as this has been tus's most active season and it could promise to see more activity in the future. The playoffs is selected of 16 players.. 12 seasonal, 4 overall. The mods have to be very strict on deadlines of playoff games getting done and whoever makes the least effort (like now) is booted from a round to get the po's finished faster
  

I think there are problems with all three of those suggestions and to be honest i think the second one is probably the best. Because i think its gonna be harder for the overall points candiates to play 50 games and avoid other players in the top 20. Also putting a max on the number of games vs same player per day will prevent noob bashing and abuse. Even if it does effect activity of tus, it will not effective it that badly as there are plenty of wormers asking for tus..


The first suggestion along may be abit exterme, 2 players at top of overall points could still find it easy to reach playoffs, and players who are under them may struggle to get into the seasonal points spots because of their high overall rating and not gaining that much.

The third suggestion could be awesome.. But its just a cause of can tus staff get and players finish and mod the playoffs with double the people inside them?



So heres a current example of who would make playoffs under these three different methods..

6 seasonal, 2 overall, 40 games still

• #1 Unique
• #2 Flori
• #3 Csongi
• #4 Gonzo
• #5 Weeman
• #6 Zippo
• #7 Juice
• #8 NaiL

Here little changes from the current selection. Ray is not encluded and instead Juice is. NaiL is 8th because of his seasonal points, not his overall. Sogeking is 4 games short of gaining 8th spot.

Current system, but with 50 games

• #1 Unique
• #2 Ray
• #3 Consgi
• #4 NaiL
• #5 Weeman
• #6 JackDaniels
• #7 Zippo
• #8 RoK

Quiet a different selection as Flori and Gonzo have not reached 50 games.

16 players, 40 games stills. 12 from seasonal, 4 overall

• #1 Unique
• #2 Flori
• #3 Consgi
• #4 Gonzo
• #5 Weeman
• #6 Ray
• #7 Zippo
• #8 NaiL
• #9 Juice
• #10 Phanton
• #11 allais
• #12 Uber
• #13 Dulek
• #14 Camperz
• #15 SacrificalLamb
• #16 RoK

A list of active players from the season, all with more than 50% winning ration. But makes it too easy to maybe reach the playoffs??


I guess that can give you an idea into which selection process could be best?

Sorry for the late reply.

First, I really appreciate you thinking about this league. It means a lot to me
Second,

I don't think your first suggestion would work, And it falls from the other side. If 2 people from overall gets to PO, Then it will be hard from those people and we may see a fight for those 2 slots between them.

Second suggestion, 50 games will be applied to season #9.
However I still don't get your point about daily limit like 5 games. I assume you mean 15 games per season remains also.
The way I see it, People will play their 10 games in the same day, But they report it in 2 days.
Unless you are pointing to something I don't see at all?

Your third suggestion I think is the best. If 16 people gets their way to PO, Then there's nothing to fight, Though we may have an easier qulification, But I think we could have a better PO.
But I'm not sure about the number. 12 to 4? I'm more into 8 - 8. Or even defining a new group like handicap or so. 8 - 4- 4.

And i think the 3rd solution could be the best aswell, even with 8 - 8.

If there was a handicap group, how would it differ from seasonal points?? Because everyone starts at 1000 and seasonal is the amount of points u gain that season to raise in stats so its kinda the same. But anyway. Does the league have enough activity and games played to support 16 players in PO's? Im not sure if would do. And if activity decreased could be caught in abit of a tight spot and have to go back to the 8 players for PO's.

Theres just all ideas to have a think about, im not saying anything should be set in concrete, espically as 50 games for next season may give a better reflection of PO candiates and encourage the players in top 20 to play more than 30 games to make po's!

Handicap is only an idea. For example it can be the people whose season points minus previous season points are the most.

Also I can put a switch for the leagues, In case of less activity, System goes for 8 people, Otherwise go for 16.

I still think it would solve the problem mentioned here, if we set some restrictions for people qualifying with their total points, for example, raising the winning percentage to 80% for them, or taking the 4 (or whatever amount) of people with their overall points from the first 30 players of the season.

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on November 03, 2009, 04:59 PM
Who says a serious game isn't fun? I believe it is even more fun. You get more excited, You focus more, You care where a crate is falling from sky. It's an amazing feeling. You only need to have 'losing capacity'.

Indeed.

Im sick of people that say "I only play for fun... I dont play leagues".

Eh?

Why do you think people play leagues?  Because its fun. Its fun playing against somebody who is also doing their best to win a game, it also increases your skill level. Its fun going on a winning streak and have your perfromance be reflected in your ratings. Its fun having people watch your games to see how well or badly you've played. Its fun playing in playoffs and tournaments, its fun playing games with your clan mates, in short, its fun to compete.

Im bored of messing around in funners, although of course ill play funners every now and then (catch me hosting ttrr anytime im not tussing). Thats what I did for the first year or so of playing worms, now I am more skilled, I prefer to play competative games against skilled players because for me and many others, this is MORE fun. If its not for you, fine.
Don't bash people who enjoy playing leagues though.

Who doesnt enjoy playing a perfect elite, getting a great winning time in a ttrr or playing a nail bitingly close team 17 match?

I'll tell you who doesnt enjoy it, its people that don't like to loose. Whether I win or loose a league game, I will enjoy the challenge of playing my best against an equally skilled player.

The irony of it is that people who say "I only play for fun, I dont play leagues", are indeed the very people that cannot accept defeat.

This is the paradox, this is the stupidity.

Lol NAiL, i used to say i only play for fun, but i dont think it was cuz i couldnt accept defeat tho !

Yeh but im not talking about people who say "I only play for fun".... all of us only play for fun.

Im talking about people that say "I only play for fun, I dont play leagues", as if to say that playing a league means that you are not playing for fun.