New plan for leagues

[HHC]

most of us still have fun, while competing, and try not to take it too serious... but the competition is what drives most of us... not really a funny, unpredictable, lots of weapon scheme :X

It doesn't have to be that black & white. Look at Normal. That one matches all the criteria, but is still considered skillful.
1rBnG definitely is a step forward from regular BnG. Would you call it a luck-game? I wouldn't.

I don't think playing worms (or TUS) should be one big penis-contest. We all know by now Random and Mablak are the most badass players. What's left to prove?
If you want more competition, and more players engaged in that competition, then lighten up the schemes and make them more 'complete'.

TTRR is a great scheme, but for a popular (all-round) league it isn't. I have 0% chance to win there vs the vast majority of active TUS players.
I have tried to improve my skills in it in the past, but I never got any better. With my crappy KB, crappy technique, lack of cheats and hands that just don't have the rr-finesse, I'm doomed to suck at it forever.

The lack of fast roping I can compensate for in regular ropers by playing smart & safe and hiding/piling well. And also by keeping my cool when things don't go as planned.

WxW is the same story as TTRR. It's only about top speed-roping (and knowing the map...). Shopper on the other end doesn't really require fast ropes, but good knocking skills, good strategic insight and knowing how to use a whole bunch of different weaps. Even if you suck at one aspect, you can still compete.


Anywho, my point being. If you want TUS Classic to appeal to more people, make the schemes more fun and appealing to new(!) people. Don't go even further on this hyper-specialized penis-contest thing.. it's just gonna drive more people away.

[Aerox]

I don't think playing worms (or TUS) should be one big penis-contest. We all know by now Random and Mablak are the most badass players. What's left to prove?

Let me ask you something HHC, do you believe in your own words? Is your argument that we should drop aiming to compete because two players dominate? Every league has seen a dominant player born. TUS hasn't. TUS inherited them. And instead of asking yourself, why is this happening? how can we improve the competition and the attitude so we see better and better players? (this is a league, remember?) Instead your propose that what we do is move further and further away from it and then we complaint that two players dominate.

TTRR is a great scheme, but for a popular (all-round) league it isn't. I have 0% chance to win there vs the vast majority of active TUS players.
I have tried to improve my skills in it in the past, but I never got any better. With my crappy KB, crappy technique, lack of cheats and hands that just don't have the rr-finesse, I'm doomed to suck at it forever

 So you just figured it would be a good idea to claim that TTRR is not a scheme all arounders should focus at all in because you suck at it and you don't have any confidence left to improve. I mean, when you were writing all this crying about people with cheats, good keyboards and amazing taps didn't you for one second think of people like Cueshark and Pi?

Either way yes, if the aim of this league is to be as popular as possible then HHC ideas will work. But they have major drawbacks. For one, the skill level will lower like it's been lowering for months now, with only three clans experiencing what I consider top of the top skill level of play (and that's only when they play each other), and also the forums will been filled with trolling and spam.
Because the motivation from noobs to become pros comes from pros directly, be it people they admire or people they read about in a forum or look at in a standings.

[Aerox]

Who exactly is getting robbed from the standings anyway, due to lack of 'Scheme Classes'?  Your criticism of the current system makes it sound like lots of players are not reaching their 'true' place in the rankings

"

That doesn't bother me the slightest franz. I'm not saying the standings are inaccurate. I'm saying the system can be improved for everyone, not just for the 8 top players.

Peja: yeah, you understand the basics.

[HHC]

Let me ask you something HHC, do you believe in your own words? Is your argument that we should drop aiming to compete because two players dominate?

Nop. My point is that it's pretty mad to try and be the superbest in this game, when there's obviously no money/prizes to win or any social respect for that matter 
It's just about e-penis size. And like I said, we know who the best/better players are, what's left to prove?

Every league has seen a dominant player born. TUS hasn't. TUS inherited them.

That's a bold statement for someone who hasn't played in years. I'm just going to dismiss it.

So you just figured it would be a good idea to claim that TTRR is not a scheme all arounders should focus at all in because you suck at it and you don't have any confidence left to improve. I mean, when you were writing all this crying about people with cheats, good keyboards and amazing taps didn't you for one second think of people like Cueshark and Pi?

Hmm.. I'm just saying TTRR is a highly specialized scheme. It deserves a league, but maybe a league of its own instead of (in Mablak's proposal) determine 20% of one's overall rating. In a league that is meant for everybody 'rape'-games like TTRR don't really fit.

Either way yes, if the aim of this league is to be as popular as possible then HHC ideas will work.

And if the aim of the league is to be as good as a skill-determinator as possible then only the 30 elite players who dominate the rankings will be pleased, while the rest suffers in lethargy and complete boredom.
I mean, these guys want to kick out hysteria and maybe shopper and t17 too. What's left? WxW, BnG, no-crate rape roper, Elite and TTRR. Oh jolly! I'll f@#!in' pass for that.

For one, the skill level will lower like it's been lowering for months now, with only three clans experiencing what I consider top of the top skill level of play (and that's only when they play each other)

:')
 

Because the motivation from noobs to become pros comes from pros directly, be it people they admire or people they read about in a forum or look at in a standings.

The motivation comes from enjoying the game and the wish to engage with other people in fun and competitive games.

[avirex]

so, phantom is misrepresenting what an all arounder is, by the current system...


but if we go through all this change, and group together schemes that dont have any business being grouped together, this will only benefit phantom...

instead of having 2 out of 8 schemes he is putting up impressive numbers, he will have 2 out of 5...   


it seems to me your talking in circles to prove one point meanwhile contradicting your overall view....

[Aerox]

so, phantom is misrepresenting what an all arounder is, by the current system...


but if we go through all this change, and group together schemes that dont have any business being grouped together, this will only benefit phantom...

instead of having 2 out of 8 schemes he is putting up impressive numbers, he will have 2 out of 5...    


it seems to me your talking in circles to prove one point meanwhile contradicting your overall view....

No, you just missed or skipped some posts (surprisingly). The one on "Balance" by me and then posteriorly the ones were Peja explains it with his own words.

Each class counts towards 20% of your rating with heavy punishment if you abuse 1 or 2 classes only, moderate punishment if you abuse 3 and the system rewards you for competing in at least 4 of the 5, or trying to compete to be more precise.  

A player could still get into playoffs by playing one or two schemes, it will just take much more wins than one who competes in 4.

But like I said, all this only make sense if the aim of the league is to declare the best all arounder.

edit: avirex, when I told you yesterday, after 6 times of you stating you don't like the system (without even fully understanding it, at all) and asked you to stop being irrelevant by continuously repeating you don't like it , you said good point. And now you say you're not a fan, for the 7th time. I know you lack such thing, but some of us other people have the ability to read a post and remember it, so you don't need to remind us of your stance on this all 10 times, specially considering:
a) you don't understand what we're talking baout
b) you're unable to reason your opinion in a successful way.

[avirex]

yeah, not a fan....


anyone like this idea besides ropa and peja?

[Phanton]

so, phantom is misrepresenting what an all arounder is, by the current system...


but if we go through all this change, and group together schemes that dont have any business being grouped together, this will only benefit phantom...

instead of having 2 out of 8 schemes he is putting up impressive numbers, he will have 2 out of 5...   

nah, no really


it seems to me your talking in circles to prove one point meanwhile contradicting your overall view....

[Aerox]

Nop. My point is that it's pretty mad to try and be the superbest in this game, when there's obviously no money/prizes to win or any social respect for that matter  
It's just about e-penis size. And like I said, we know who the best/better players are, what's left to prove?

Believe it or not, there's people out there who have the confidence to be number one, this is how Mablak became number one and why Random became number one. Now instead of asking yourself, why are no number ones coming up you choose to believe leagues make no sense because two players dominate.

That's a bold statement for someone who hasn't played in years. I'm just going to dismiss it.

So you're going to dismiss me saying that TUS has not seen born any dominant players?
You said there's no reason to compete in a league owned by two people. These two people didn't start playing this week. So if you're dismissing someone, you're dismissing yourself, and you're also bold and bald.

Hmm.. I'm just saying TTRR is a highly specialized scheme. It deserves a league, but maybe a league of its own instead of (in Mablak's proposal) determine 20% of one's overall rating. In a league that is meant for everybody 'rape'-games like TTRR don't really fit.

Are leagues meant for everyone? We obviously have such different ideas that I see no point in arguing. I hope for a league in which the best compete, and if you can't have fun in your first month in a WA league and you can't compete, tough luck, try harder, play funners, practice. You basically want people to jump into the league and have fun from day one, and you seem totally unable to grasp the huge drawbacks this has

And if the aim of the league is to be as good as a skill-determinator as possible then only the 30 elite players who dominate the rankings will be pleased, while the rest suffers in lethargy and complete boredom.

Boredom is subjective. You're clearly not a competitive kind of guy, but please do me a favor, never forget we're talking about a League here. League.
Whilst you seem to think that fighting your way to the top whilst struggling a lot at the beginning is a pain in the arse, I believe that the reward you feel when you do reach the top is infinitely superior to being allowed to compete from day one because the league is basically casual and you can go without ever learning how to compete in such a relevant scheme (specially through this last 5 years) such as RR.

:')

Yeah, I'm a big nostalgic guy with tinted glasses that can't look past the fact that clans are as good nowadays as they were back then I'm just biased.
Is that what you meant? Only three clans nowadays are comparable to the top 10 of only last league. If you think this is not a direct effect of putting no emphasis into high level competition then you must have a different theory and I'm dying to hear it.
 

The motivation comes from enjoying the game and the wish to engage with other people in fun and competitive games.

The motivation to finish playoffs you mean?

[HHC]

Is that what you meant? Only three clans nowadays are comparable to the top 10 of only last league.

What possibly makes you think you can pass judgement over players and clans when you haven't played any games in years?
Tell me that and then come again to make statements about people's skill level.

If you think this is not a direct effect of putting no emphasis into high level competition then you must have a different theory and I'm dying to hear it.

I don't believe the skill level is dropping.
I don't believe there's 'no emphasis on high level competition'.


Really ropa, go back to your chat channels and leave discussions about worms and TUS in its present form to players who actually visit wormnet once in a while.

[Aerox]

Is that what you meant? Only three clans nowadays are comparable to the top 10 of only last league.

What possibly makes you think you can pass judgement over players and clans when you haven't played any games in years?
Tell me that and then come again to make statements about people's skill level.

Ever heard of pundits? Sources? Common sense? I don't need to play (which doesn't mean I don't, for the record). I have you to tell me that Mablak and Random are the best and can't be beaten (you used this as an argument against all around leagues) and then, when I say they're dominating because we're not seeing new players giving them a challenge you dismiss my point because I don't play everyday.

I don't believe the skill level is dropping.
I don't believe there's 'no emphasis on high level competition'.

Well, here's hoping you eventually open your eyes.

Really ropa, go back to your chat channels and leave discussions about worms and TUS in its present form to players who actually visit wormnet once in a while.

Why? Isn't it good to have different perspectives? I know you rather I wasn't here so everyone would still listen to your ideas on how to make this Worms Reloaded. But you'll have to learn to live with it and come up with better material other than "your opinion is invalid because you don't play everyday".

[HHC]

You are free to engage in discussions no problem. But all you do is nitpicking over insignificant details just to get proven right. All that on the presumed basis that you 'know' the game better than newer players do.


I counted the posts you made in these league changing-topics.
You scored 44 posts.

1 message to say you'd like to see the classic league schemes divided into 5 categories.
43 messages disagreeing with Komito, Avirex, Franz, myself, etcetera.

[Aerox]

1 message to say you'd like to see the classic league schemes divided into 5 categories.
43 messages disagreeing with Komito, Avirex, Franz, myself, etcetera.

I see it more as

1 opening posts
43 posts solving doubts

Even though, I fail to see how this is relevant? You use the same post to tell me I'm  nitpicking to be right and then you intermediately manage to ignore all substance of my post just to attempt to illustrate a point: something to do with how many of my messages are quotes, and how many aren't?

Now, this is my last attempt at trying to get an explanation for your claims, if you choose to not answer then please, choose to not reply.

You claimed 2 players dominated the league as a point against all around league, you implied there's no point, with such dominance.
These two players became good before TUS.

Now, because no new TUS player can beat them (you said this, not me) then I claimed that the level has gone down, clearly, at least, in all around, because other leagues put more emphasis on it, I like to believe that Mablak and Random are the players they are now because of this.

Please HHC, either admit you contradicted yourself or accept that even if you might think I don't play worms I can still have a voice, and even if it pains you, said voice can tell you when you're wrong, the same way it can happen viceversa, but you seem to have no interest in doing so, you rather focus your attention in dismissing all I have to say because you seem to think playtime has something to do with having a pair of eyes.

[HHC]

If I were to respond to each and every fragment of your post i'd soon be posting messages of Komito-proportions. I select the things I like to respond to and keep my messages as small as possible.

It's easier if everyone justs posts the idea they support and why in a single post. There can be some feedback, but the more messages you post and the further away it moves from the original topic, the less likely people are gonna remember what your initial stance on the issue was.

Arguing over details gets you nowhere. So I don't go there.



edit: Nope, not going to respond to that. My opinion on the matter is clear in my previous posts. Not worth discussing any further for me. (and btw, don't blame me for not responding to something that has been edited into a post AFTER i posted my reply)

[Aerox]

If I were to respond to each and every fragment of your post i'd soon be posting messages of Komito-proportions. I select the things I like to respond to

I asked you specifically to answer to something. I asked you please.

Is "I don't respond to details" an excuse I'm supposed to take? What a let down.