Checking times in RR

[Rok]

when does a worm touch something? when there is virtual contact? ergo, hitbox vs hitbox, or when there is visual contact (worm has visual "mass" that goes through hitboxes)?

In solving complaints, we've count a contact when the collision mask ("hitbox") touches terrain, not the sprite.

[TheKomodo]

when does a worm touch something? when there is virtual contact? ergo, hitbox vs hitbox, or when there is visual contact (worm has visual "mass" that goes through hitboxes)?

In solving complaints, we've count a contact when the collision mask ("hitbox") touches terrain, not the sprite.

In that case then, guuuria should not have won the WxW round between Masta Vs Guuuria, they were both around 20hp, she touched the roof not the wall but the sprite overlapped the wall, MI awarded guuuria the win, I can see why, but at the same time, close but no cigar, if it doesn't hit, it's a miss, by how much should be irrelevant.

I made it clear at the time, I thought guurias turn should be considered a miss and same hp's rematch with mastas turn, but I also made it clear I fully support MI's decision.

[Aerox]

In solving complaints, we've count a contact when the collision mask ("hitbox") touches terrain, not the sprite.

How do you judge then? There's no DEFINITE way of judging by the eye if the worms hitbox has touched something (mainly because you can't see the hitbox), so you're either going by sound (which I'm not sure works in all cases, I'll find out, though) or by judging the worm's movement after the contact (eg: if it bounces back it means it has touched).


edit: going by sound can result in a bad complaint resolution:

<CyberShadow> like I said, when you're hanging against a wall, you're actually bouncing against it at a very small scale
<CyberShadow> and you don't hear any sound then

[Rok]

How do you judge then? There's no DEFINITE way of judging by the eye if the worms hitbox has touched something (mainly because you can't see the hitbox), so you're either going by sound (which I'm not sure works in all cases, I'll find out, though) or by judging the worm's movement after the contact (eg: if it bounces back it means it has touched).

I never judged by sound. Watching the sprite turn around/change orientation, as you said, turned out to be accurate enough in cases encountered so far. I'm talking about rope races, to be clear. Judging whether a worm touched a wall in wxw could be trickier, but I'm sure it could be accurately tested offline, by comparing pictures, say.

@Komo. I'm not familiar with that game, can't say why MI decided the way he did.

[TheKomodo]

Neither do I, but I trust him.

[Aerox]

I'm sure it could be accurately tested offline, by comparing pictures, say.

No, you can't. Not even in rope races. Imagine this:

|
|
|
|
x............
| E N D  |
.............

The worm is coming from the right, to the left, very fast, attaches the rope on the roof and swings with speed and bounces against the "x". How are you certain the hitbox has touch the end? It might have not. Even if you do it frame by frame you can't know. You need to be able to see collision masks, and you can't, yet. Same applies to WxW.

[Rok]

You don't see the hitbox, but you could draw it.

See here: http://worms2d.info/User:Etho/Physics_Engine There's worm collision mask drawn at the bottom of the page. Now the worm's sprite rotates during gameplay, but collision mask doesn't (I don't recall the source of this info). By comparing screenshots of the game to a picture of collision mask, I think it's perfectly possible to find out what bit of land it touched.

[Aerox]

You don't see the hitbox, but you could draw it.

See here: http://worms2d.info/User:Etho/Physics_Engine There's worm collision mask drawn at the bottom of the page. Now the worm's sprite rotates during gameplay, but collision mask doesn't (I don't recall the source of this info). By comparing screenshots of the game to a picture of collision mask, I think it's perfectly possible to find out what bit of land it touched.

Oh that makes sense. If you can do this if required then I guess there's no loop.

[Crazy]

Lets cut out TTRR and go back to regular RR?

[Tomi]

Lets cut out TTRR and go back to regular RR?

That's the solution Cut out TTRR and let's play Tower

[Aerox]

Lets cut out TTRR and go back to regular RR?

And regular marriage

[Random00]

It might be a bit offtopic, but:

Also something to consider: ties may have a suspense factor, but they always favor the better player, and the larger the margin of error in times we consider draws, the more it favors them. Suppose you have an 82.5% chance of winning, and 17.5% chance of losing against a particular player. Then suppose a rule creates a 5% chance of a draw, and let's say the probabilities go to 80% chance of winning, 5% chance of drawing, and 15% chance of losing. In actuality, we might not subtract 2.5% from wins and losses evenly, but I think this works assuming both players have similarly shaped normal distributions of their times.

This 5% chance of drawing implies playing another game, so you could rephrase it as "5% chance of (80% chance of winning, 5% chance of drawing, and 15% chance of losing)". Or to just focus on the winning percentage, it becomes .8 + .05(.8 + .05(.8...)), which can be written .8 + (.05)*(. + (.05^2)*(. + (.05^3)*(. +.... This is just a geometric series, .8*(summation from n = 0 to infinity of) .05^n. You might remember learning at one point that a geometric series reduces to 1/(1-r), where r is the ratio. So this sum is equal to .8/(1-.05) = .8421, so the real winning ratio is 84.21%.

You're assuming that the chances will go from 82.5% for A and 17.5% for B to 80% for A, 15% for B and 5% draw, which is not logical imo. Let's say a draw is what it is now (players finishing in the same second), then chances that A finishes first in this second are higher than 50%. If B has not some super mental power which makes him stronger in close situations, A should even be first in 82.5% of the cases. Which means that draws wouldn't change anything at the winning percentage.
Even if B would perform better in close game than he usually does, the winning percentage for A just slightly increases. And you chose a pretty high winning percentage for A as an example.
To sum it up: I don't think draws have practical influence (less than 1%) on the outcome of a game.

And also:

Just a note: 1ms = 1/1000s. WA shows only hundredths of seconds (1cs = 1/100s). So 34.56 = 34 seconds and 560 milliseconds, but not 56ms. So be careful with calling it "ms" Wiki

Each turn is divided in frames, at a rate of 50 frames per second.

source: http://worms2d.info/Replay_file

[Chicken23]

Lets cut out TTRR and go back to regular RR?

30sec would be awesome for me! People arn't used to the pressure of your time running out and having no where to safely place your worm as your speeding up the tallest climb! I may start picking 30sec rr and bring it back

[DarkOne]

I could host a 30 sec RR cup, chicken

[Crazy]

Lets cut out TTRR and go back to regular RR?

And regular marriage

What an irrelevant low blow Ropa. Suffering from what, egodystonic homophobia, or something else?

30sec would be awesome for me! People arn't used to the pressure of your time running out and having no where to safely place your worm as your speeding up the tallest climb! I may start picking 30sec rr and bring it back

Go for it Tom, you have my support