Next scheme for TRL season #13

[nappy]

We already have T17 / Elite for strategic minds

Actually, T17 is about as strategic as Shoppa Good drop = 80% of success.

I still believe that bo1 intermediate may work well together with the "one restart" rule. Otherwise there is a risk for it to turn out pretty luck-based. For those who are unfamiliar with the rule I'm mentioning, it is simple: each player may ask for a restart before he makes his first turn, but only once. A similar idea is used in competitive Heroes 3 gaming (players usually have two or three restarts there), and helps to fight randomness to some good degree.

[Hussar]

cool idea !

[franz]

even I pushed for trying bo1 intermediate in recent past, but after playing intermediate more, that's just not how it's played right now (intermediate players like the balance of bo3).

maybe allow alternatives if both agree, but the default should probably still be bo3.

alternatives being: bo1, 'one restart' bo1, manual placement (gasp), etc.

[van]

It's going to be a good test for TUS to see if it's more ready for intermediate now.
If it works out, we could think about implementing it into classic league, if it doesn't then oh well, we'll try again in a year.

maybe allow alternatives if both agree, but the default should probably still be bo3.
alternatives being: bo1, 'one restart' bo1, manual placement (gasp), etc.

Sounds good. Although in that case bo3 should be gaining twice as much points as bo1.

[Prankster]

I'm kinda new to intermediate, but already have a few opinions on the matter

At a first glance, bo1 + "one restart" seems similar to a normal bo3, regarding to reducing luck-factor at least. But it makes a bigger difference in the gameplay. In bo3 games you (somewhat) get to know your opponent. His skills, style, worm order (!), so you can adapt.

Manual placement seems to be the best solution against luck, but IMO, it would kinda turn intermediate into "elite light", with less improvisation and human factor. (Next step is edited maps... )

I think this scheme is a gentlemen's game, for people who got time and who care to know their opponents as human beings too.

Summing it up: intermediate is intermediate and it's bo3 (or more).
I say let's keep bo3 as default, any other solutions only if both agree, as franz suggested as well.

Edit: a few suggestion could be useful, regarding the maps. If you play on "island", avoid girder bridges close to the top and long slopes ending in a big plophole. When playing on a cave map, watch out for thin ground at the base. Also if playing bo3, the first two maps should be the same style (island or cave), so both players will go first in similar conditions.

[Phanton]

bo1...bo3 = long game ;(

[NiCo`]

BnG its better dudes because intermediate its similary of tel ( TUS elite) I think, and by the way why tel disabled MI? 

[Kayz]

Hi fellow TUSers

I saw that Intermediate got 42 votes. That's pretty awesome.

I think the idea of a restarting rule is nice, since I guess it will be just bo1. And bo1 is crucial if the positions are bad, that's why we mostly play bo3, and bo5 / bo7 in playoffs, serious games like CWT or playoffs.

I read here that some of you don't like bo3 because it's too long, so that rule could at least reduce the luck factor of single rounds. Though triple kills or more in the first turn are really rare, if you choose decent maps.
If some of you learn to like this scheme, and want to continue playing it, know that all of you are always welcome to play in our league.

www.normalnonoobs.com
We have seasons with a special point system going for 3 months with following playoffs of the 8 highest ranked players. Our point system is dynamic, which means, if you win someone who didn't play in the season before, you won't get a lot of points. But if this player wins a lot of games after that, the game you played in the beginning will get more points worth, which makes it all more balanced and fair.
I always find it difficult here that if you came as a good player, wanting to play vs some high ranked players, they sometimes avoided to play, because winning won't give them a lot of points but losing would give them just a big loss.
Sorry if this is offtopic, but I just thought I promote a bit since Intermediate got so many votes, which means its popularity is finally increasing extern of ONL
Active players are always welcome, since the overall activity is a bit low nowadays.

[KoreanRedDragon]

Guys, guys, guys.

Bo2 would be perfect for Intermediate here, didn't we agree on that a while back? It's even more fair than Bo3 as long as you play both rounds on islands or both in caves, and the only thing that would have to be done is to allow reporting 1-1 draws when reporting Inter here on TUS. Simply have that single report affect both players' ratings the same way as if they each won one full game, so the higher ranked one loses a bit of points and the lower ranked one wins a few.

Seriously, it feels like the perfect middle ground between Bo3 and Bo1 to me.

[barman]

Bo2 would be perfect for Intermediate here, didn't we agree on that a while back? It's even more fair than Bo3 as long as you play both rounds on islands or both in caves, and the only thing that would have to be done is to allow reporting 1-1 draws when reporting Inter here on TUS. Simply have that single report affect both players' ratings the same way as if they each won one full game, so the higher ranked one loses a bit of points and the lower ranked one wins a few.

Isn't it essentially equivalent to reporting both rounds as separate games?

[Husk]

heh =D krd u don't even play trl mate!

but I agree =) there was a topic about it and many people seemed to like the idea of bo2

[Prankster]

Topics get lost on TUS
Sure, that sounds good, if it's mandatory to play 2 games.

[MonkeyIsland]

I think most people will want to play the usual bo3 for Intermediate. I can't make draw reporting for bo2 atm. That aside, it is TRL not classic, people play only one scheme, so time won't be an issue.

[franz]

I always find it difficult here that if you came as a good player, wanting to play vs some high ranked players, they sometimes avoided to play, because winning won't give them a lot of points but losing would give them just a big loss.

This was actually only a problem in the previous system before March 2011 that had just Overall Rating, and adding the Seasonal Rating system helped drastically on these (win +1 lose -72). Your system works great for isolated seasons and constantly updates everyone's 'strength of opponent list', which I think is cool. But some magic is lost when say beating a strong player means almost nothing unless they play out the whole season. Still, I think both systems are viewed as acceptable for their own merits.



I think MI is probably right about a default bo3. Not everyone is great at choosing/making maps anyway, but I could still see at least some people maybe trying bo1 with sufficiently complex maps to prevent huge 3+ plop first turns.

Though a modified KRD idea could maybe work too (as a last ditch idea here) --> instead of reporting your Bo2 in one report like KRD was trying to rationalize, just simply treat the Bo2 games as completely separate games especially when reporting. This eliminates the need for MI to alter any unnecessary coding, and 2 games will always be played to help balance out. --> and hey! if players are having fun, they could even elect to continue with that 3rd 'tiebreak' game if they both mutually agree (still reported separately again anyway).

would any of you actually be up for that? only detractor I can of is finishing 1:1 might just not seem as satisfying, almost feeling like playing for nothing if the final effect is just +1 or +2 for one player and -1 or -2 for the other player. (this would only be true in this first Intermediate TRL when Overall Rank is being populated for the first time --> I could see this idea working a lot better in successive seasons: a 2nd Intermediate TRL, 3rd, 4th...)

Otherwise, I still think a Bo3 default could be fine, and allow other variations if players can agree.

[Statik]

I guess there was never a restriction in TRL to play bo1, bo3, etc. Me & barman played bo7 TRL TTRR and it was fine. I know these schemes are different, but if people agree to play boN (N>=1), why not.