Playoff Regulations

[darKz]

Since noone wanted to kick it off obviously, I spent a few minutes pointing out what's wrong with the playoffs regulations from my point of view:

When you start playing TUS it's fairly easy for a skilled player to reach a reasonably high rating in his strong schemes and thus gain a nice seasonal rating. Everyone will agree that in your first TUS season it's only possible to reach playoffs through seasonal rating. Maybe you'll make it through seasonal rating in your second season too. But what's gonna happen in your third season? You won't make it. Your seasonal rating won't be as high as those of "new" players and your overall rating won't be as high as those of "veteran" players. So how are you gonna qualify for single playoffs in that season? Except with a 90%+ winning ratio and at least 120 games played, you won't even have a chance.

Well, and the longer TUS is running, the larger this gap will become and the harder it's going to be to qualify for playoffs for the "middle class" (overall rating-wise), even if they play a great season. And honestly, playing a couple of seasons just to reach playoffs ONCE isn't really motivating, especially seeing how some guys who play their first season qualify straight away.

So basically:
1st season - 70 games / 80% wins - qualified per seasonal rating
2nd season - 70 games / 80% wins - qualified per seasonal rating
3rd season - 70 games / 80% wins - not qualified because failed to reach seasonal top4 and absolutely no chance to get into top4 overall

Maybe in your 6th or 7th season you're gonna qualify again, but just maybe - depending on how much overall rating players like Random00 dibz or Dulek will have.

My few cents.

[Chicken23]

I Agree

Whats the solutions?

More playoff places? Less spots for seasonal? 2 seasonal and 6 overalll? If it is all overall then it will discourage new players and PO's each season will be very similar.. FB had this problem.

I think 2 and 6 could be interesting
1 and 3 with clans

[Abnaxus]

8 first seasonals are the best (so evrybody get his chance to be in PO).

Anyway, why would top 4 overall get involved in PO ? It's just non sense.

[darKz]

lol, weird statement there.

8 first seasonals are the best (so evrybody get his chance to be in PO).

You know, when you play your first season it's easy to get into top 8 seasonal ranking because you have low ratings and gain a lot when you play against guys who have higher ratings (because they've been around for longer than you). But after each season it's harder to reach a high seasonal rating because you won't gain as many points anymore while your ratings are growing.. Best example would be Random00, look at his recent season, he's played just over 70 games with a winning percentage of over 90% and barely made it to the top 20. You get my point? It's nonsense to put top 8 seasonal into playoffs.

Anyway, why would top 4 overall get involved in PO ? It's just non sense.

Yeah well, that's a contradiction. The top overall players are those who have way better qualifications to be put into playoffs because they played a lot more games, are way more consistant (gotta have played several good seasons instead of just one) and they have a f@#!ing hard time "defending" their points because they'd lose a hell lot if they lost to someone with a much lower ranking.

[Random00]

8 first seasonals are the best (so everybody get his chance to be in PO).

Anyway, why would top 4 overall get involved in PO ? It's just non sense.

Please, just have a look at my stats for season 12 and then look at my seasonal rating. I won like 90% of my games and finished at rank 13 or something. So, I shouldnt qualify for PO?
In every upcoming season now it will be very hard for me to even reach 1000 seasonal points.
There just needs to be some complex system that kicks out high ranked overall players if they just play a bad season.

edit: well, Dark also said the same lol xd

[Abnaxus]

Dudes, when you're good, it's normal to make many more efforts to get in PO:
You must not lose a game, cause you would lose lot of points, and you must win many more games to earn as much points as another who made only 2 games.
Being good is just another world, where everything is harder: so don't take it too seriously, because you wouldn't have any chance.

And this way, newcomers or random players have a chance to go to the PO.

And it's there you should look at Analyser and take the scheme where you earn more points (even if it's your worst).
It's totally normal you can't get in PO if you pick only 1 scheme everytime.

PS: If you're that good, why don't you just enter in the top 4 overall ?

[MonkeyIsland]

I'd love to hear some solutions.

Some of you already know TUS changed its system like 3-4 times to reach this. It is not perfect but it worked pretty well so far.

The one thing that hasn't been a culture on playing YET, is that high ranked players do not select their opponents. I always hear "I lose a lot of points by 1 game and I gotta win 50 games to gain them back."
The thing is people looks for only an opponent to play league with. The system is designed to decrease noob bashing. Look at this game for instance:
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-27394/

Dulek and dibz both are Elite TTRR players and played with eachother, the result is, Dulek gained 43 points. (40 is the standard point)
The system is designed so that High rank players play with high ranks and so on. But maybe there are not enough players around to pick between?

There was pretty discussion going on about noob bashing ta the start of TUS. System changed to descrese it, and it got successful in a way but we still do not pick an opponent of our own size.

Anyway, an old solution was to increase number of PO spots but that would make PO qualifying less important and maybe nothing major to fight for.

[darKz]

Dudes, when you're good, it's normal to make many more efforts to get in PO:
You must not lose a game, cause you would lose lot of points, and you must win many more games to earn as much points as another who made only 2 games.
Being good is just another world, where everything is harder: so don't take it too seriously, because you wouldn't have any chance.

I'm good at philosophy but I can't follow you here.

And this way, newcomers or random players have a chance to go to the PO.

Isn't this league an allround league and designed so the best players go into playoffs rather than "random players"?

And it's there you should look at Analyser and take the scheme where you earn more points (even if it's your worst).
It's totally normal you can't get in PO if you pick only 1 scheme everytime.

That's what almost everyone is doing, especially the "good" players.

PS: If you're that good, why don't you just enter in the top 4 overall ?

That's exactly what I'm talking about, because it would take not one but 3 or 4 seasons to catch up to the current top 4. In that time I'm playing and playing to increase my points so I can eventually make overall playoffs while new players enter playoffs one after another through seasonal rating.

It would be a lot easier to play 1 season serious, then lose all games in the next so you get a good chance for playoffs in the 3rd season again. lol

I remember in FB there was an award for "best handicap", which means most point gain in that season (= TUS seasonal rating). You didn't qualify for playoffs through that, though.

Edit: To make it even more clear.. What I'm saying is that the whole idea to enter playoffs through a seasonal rating is flawed. And by now you can see why.

[Random00]

The one thing that hasn't been a culture on playing YET, is that high ranked players do not select their opponents. I always hear "I lose a lot of points by 1 game and I gotta win 50 games to gain them back."
The thing is people looks for only an opponent to play league with. The system is designed to decrease noob bashing. Look at this game for instance:
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-27394/

In general thats a nice idea, but just tell me some opponent for hysteria. I have to fear losing a lot of points vs everyone lol :/

I just write down some things that a player wanting to qualify for PO should reach:
1. You have to be good at the current season. (being good means for me that win more then 40% of your games vs. players of the same skill level). The problem here is, that you need min. 50 games in a scheme to see what your skill level at a certain scheme is.
2. You shouldnt be able to reach POs with just being good at 1 or 2 schemes. (means you win 85%+ at these schemes and have like 50% winnings in the other schemes)
3. You should be active in the current season (we already have a good mark there with 70 games per season, I think thats fine).
4. The number of PO spots for singles should be 8 or 16, depending on how many players are active (the amount of players who played 70 games or more). At the moment we're having enough players for 16 spots I think. But, then it would be very important to play the PO games a lot faster! I think having a deadline of 1 week should be usually enough for 2 active players to find a date.

just a few thoughts....

[Chicken23]

I remember in FB there was an award for "best handicap", which means most point gain in that season (= TUS seasonal rating). You didn't qualify for playoffs through that, though.

You did tho darkz. Thats how i got into playoffs one month. Top 12 overall made it from the regular point system. The handicap was highest 4 in that which is exactly the same as tus seasonal.

Having 16 players in PO's. 12 overall and 4 seasonal would work wonders. But 45 days is too short for this. The season length could be increased to 60 days. This would mean less playoffs less often so easy to get games finished on time as an extra 8 candiates. Also it would make tus more focused on overall points, not seasonal. Overall is the most important in a ladder. The standings could even be displayed overall first, instead of seasonal first.

[Chicken23]

In general thats a nice idea, but just tell me some opponent for hysteria. I have to fear losing a lot of points vs everyone lol :/

4. The number of PO spots for singles should be 8 or 16, depending on how many players are active (the amount of players who played 70 games or more). At the moment we're having enough players for 16 spots I think. But, then it would be very important to play the PO games a lot faster! I think having a deadline of 1 week should be usually enough for 2 active players to find a date.

just a few thoughts....

Same with me and bng. I lost to dibz who is a good bnger and it cost me 56 points even tho he had a gold ranking in it.

Anyway. Read your post about 16 spots just after my post about 16. Increasing the season length would help to get enough games to make the PO's and space out time between each season so more time to finish them. You would have to be very strict on getting games finished on time. I know just the mod who currently works at TuS and did the exact same thing of dealing with playoffs at FB. He did a very good job of it. Didn't you Darkone!?  

[Crazy]

I remember in FB there was an award for "best handicap", which means most point gain in that season (= TUS seasonal rating). You didn't qualify for playoffs through that, though.

You did tho darkz. Thats how i got into playoffs one month. Top 12 overall made it from the regular point system. The handicap was highest 4 in that which is exactly the same as tus seasonal.

Having 16 players in PO's. 12 overall and 4 seasonal would work wonders. But 45 days is too short for this. The season length could be increased to 60 days. This would mean less playoffs less often so easy to get games finished on time as an extra 8 candiates. Also it would make tus more focused on overall points, not seasonal. Overall is the most important in a ladder.The standings could even be displayed overall first, instead of seasonal first.

Agreed, overall is more important then seasonal, and should be displayed first IMO, the guys with the highest overall deserves it! And besides playoffs, this is the main goal of the best players right, to reach the highest overall possible? Atleast in my eyes. Having the biggest overall rating is really worth worming for I also agree with the rest Tom (and Dark/Random) suggests here. Increasing the playoff-spots for overall ranking would be for the better. It could discourage new players like C23 says, but I`m sure its different from individual to individual. If I started in a league as a new player, I`d face the reality; I`m not good enough to be on top of the list yet, I have nothing to do there yet, I`ll have to work my way up by playing a lot over a larger period of time, play the better players and learn by them. Right?

Anyway, the system is not that bad, like MI says, it would work very nicely in a perfect world. Unfortunately, we are not living in one;P The system is starting to get more and more similar to the FB one, and when FB closed, it was widely acknowledged by the veterans of the community that this was the best system of a Worms League so far, so I guess it`s not such a bad thing after all? We have a lot of opportunities though; Wormnet`s increasing activity, the grea amount of number of players in the league and the activity level by the players actually playing, is very very nice. It`s also important to remember that the league is doing great, after all, it`s the first league in 4 years now which haven`t been hacked by some dumb ass(es) All creds to MI, jeg bøyer meg i støvet

[zippeurfou]

The one thing that hasn't been a culture on playing YET, is that high ranked players do not select their opponents. I always hear "I lose a lot of points by 1 game and I gotta win 50 games to gain them back."
The thing is people looks for only an opponent to play league with. The system is designed to decrease noob bashing. Look at this game for instance:
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-27394/

In general thats a nice idea, but just tell me some opponent for hysteria. I have to fear losing a lot of points vs everyone lol :/

I just write down some things that a player wanting to qualify for PO should reach:
1. You have to be good at the current season. (being good means for me that win more then 40% of your games vs. players of the same skill level). The problem here is, that you need min. 50 games in a scheme to see what your skill level at a certain scheme is.
2. You shouldnt be able to reach POs with just being good at 1 or 2 schemes. (means you win 85%+ at these schemes and have like 50% winnings in the other schemes)
3. You should be active in the current season (we already have a good mark there with 70 games per season, I think thats fine).
4. The number of PO spots for singles should be 8 or 16, depending on how many players are active (the amount of players who played 70 games or more). At the moment we're having enough players for 16 spots I think. But, then it would be very important to play the PO games a lot faster! I think having a deadline of 1 week should be usually enough for 2 active players to find a date.

just a few thoughts....

I like most of your ideas . But I think that we should increase the number of game: If someone can play (let's say 130 game in one season he sure will be able to play playoffs quick). I also like the one week delay time for playoffs. At first people will complain but then the game will be played and for clanner for exemple you won't have to wait to have the best of the best player in each clan for each scheme to play. A clan is not one or two member who are good it's a whole thing if you ask me . Also with the one week rule you can think of making it more attractive with a counter and an announcement ofr each game played.
PS: Crazy stop spam this forum and spam our a little

[Crazy]

Hah you know I`m not a spammer, never been, we have rash, agneau, gand, monk and many more for that I did already post though!

[TheKomodo]

Personally I think if you care THAT MUCH about reaching playoffs, just reset your rank every season...

Or spend the time reaching the top 4.

Your choice.