Shopper Changes

[NAiL]

1. Remove flamethrowers and petrol bombs.

2. Make zooks unlimited.

Ok so you hide your worm, then your blocked for 3 turns by a petrol bomb. Needs to be removed in order to make the scheme fairer.

Its one thing getting a more powerful weapon than another, but getting a weapon that forces the opponant to skip 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 turns is just too great a luck factor to have for a league scheme.

Flamethrowers can cause far too much damage. Considering most of the good "hides" on a shopper map are enclosed, this weapon can cause huge damage if you happen to be next to a wall.

As with petrol bombs, this weapon vastly increases the luck factor of shopper. If you happen to be hidden in an enclosed space, getting a flame thrower can do twice the damage of a dynamite, its just too much damage to be fair!

Zooks need to be unlimited, reduces the luck margin because if i pick up a handgun and my opponant a dynamite, you always have the zooka to rely on.

What do you think?

[Chicken23]

I disagree..

umlimited zooks should be in wxw, it seems people use them to get extra retreat time. But they should not be in shopper.

Petrol bombs raping a hide is the fault of a player picking a shit map. Random shopper maps ftw or FFIEsupermariobro3.

Put hhg, cows and aqau back in the scheme.

FB shopper scheme is prefect!

[Chicken23]

We dont have a thread about taking weapons out of t17 due to luck, so why shopper?

[NAiL]

Because shopper is a completely different scheme.  In t17 you have the ability to block worms and hide in unreachable places. Shopper consists of rope, attack, hide, every single turn.

Ive already explained why unlimited zooks and no flamethrower reduces the luck factor.

You say that petrol blocks only happen on "shit" maps. Thats just not true, a pretty silly statement to make.

There are many great maps where petrol blocks can occur, it can occur on any map. Whether or not a worm can be petrol blocked or not has nothing to do with the quality of the map, I hope you realise this. There are too many example mapsI could give you to prove it, this is obvious.

You can be petrol blocked on a "random map", you can be petrol blocked on "ffies smb3". You already contradicted yourself by saing that you could not be petrol bombed on either of these maps.

Due to the nature of shopper, petrol bomb blocks are not good for a league scheme in which luck should be minimised.

Im not trying to elminate ALL forms of luck, just forms of luck that offer a very HUGE advantage to whoever is lucky enough to be having that luck.

As I said, there is a far smaller difference between one person picking up a grenade and the other a dynamite, compared to 1 person picking up a grenade, and the other person picking up something that causes their opponant to skip 3 turns...

[Chicken23]

point taken, i did rush into that post. i think its a shame fb shopper scheme isnt used, and umlimited zooks was added. For the scheme to be changed for less luck is bad.
If you want a luckless game thats what other schemes are for. I think its half the fun and risk of picking shopper is that you can get unlucky, so it might not be such an easy win as you'd hoped against a less skilled player because of that luck. In most cases your picking it because your rating is already so high in a scheme which involves less luck anyway?

[MonkeyIsland]

I think petrol is kinda a 'come back' weapon. If there are not these kinda of weapons, then you can tell the player who has a bit more hp at the very first turns, will remain like till the end of the game.

[Rok]

I'd be ok with removing petrol and flamethrower, but don't mind having them in the scheme either.

But I disagree with unlimited bazooka, it's ok for wxw but not for shopper. Maybe it would be better to remove those totally shitty weapons, like pistol or dragon ball.

[Ray]

NAiL is trying to reduce the luck factor of the scheme, it is a point, nice.

What happens if we set the power of Flamethrower to the minimum? Also, does the flame of Petrol Bomb disappear sooner if it's power is minimized?

Unlimited Bazooka should be kept only in WxW, I agree with Rok here, about removing Handgun and these kind of weapons.

[WookA]

nail has some good points, flamethrower at minimum might  be a good idea too, but i never tried it at minimum so idk for sure, unlimited zook really wouldnt hurt shoppa, but it also wouldnt be neccesary if we got rid of all of the shitty weapons

as for petrol, i feel 50/50 about it... it makes the game more interesting, but sometimes people take too much advantage of it, 1 turn being blocked by a petrol is fine, it usually doesnt do too much damage either, but 3,4,or 5 can decide a game easily, and all it takes is getting 2 cr8s worth of them, minimum power might be best, that way if a player wants to block with petrol, then they have to do a small amount of damage

i think more opinions will help with this, say what you think people!

[WookA]

our current shop scheme has the same crates as wxw, with no infinite zook... we noticed that we had no shop scheme from splitting it with wxw so i added this, it can still be edited

[Ray]

Appreciated.

[WookA]

oh and i would also like to know what people think about afr/afc

i personally dont think its neccesary, but for the current scheme its a rule

[beer]

im for afr
also for unlimited zook.
- petrol.

for me tus wxw is ok, just remove petrol from there..

[Chicken23]

im for afr
also for unlimited zook.
- petrol.

for me tus wxw is ok, just remove petrol from there..

But this is fine for wxw. Not shopper. Its a different type of scheme which is less involved on roping.

I once again love the balance of the FB shopper scheme. I think no afr, cows, hhg and aqua make the scheme alot more interesting.

I think this scheme should have more luck involved. Thats whats makes it fun. I dont wanna play a shopper where i have the option of zooking everyturn and the majority of weapon damage is 75. Infact with the current tus scheme, only flamie and minigun do over 75 damage. Thats why you need cows, hhg and aqua to give more chance of getting a stronger weapon as currently there are only two???

Watch a shopper CKC vs TdC. Me and dilbert were getting owned vs tdc, but then a cr8 came on last turn which was cows and allowed dilbert to kill 3 worms. Yes this is lucky, but it also took dilbert alot of skill to use the cows to make these 3 cows and turn the game upside down.

By reducing the luck factor in schemes you are promoting consistency within a game which is a good idea and i cant argue about that. But i think its more fun to keep this element of luck, because it takes skill to use luck to you advantage.. and by doing one very skillfull turn its still something that needs to be rewarded aswell as playing safe over a couple of turns.

I dunno, i just think shopper should be luckly, thats what makes it fun. If you get cr8 raped, then badluck, but accept it. Pile more maybe? Anything can come in the next cr8 to turn the game around. Espically if its 3 cows on ur last turn!



Also, why do you think wxw became a scheme? Becuase people wanted a verison of shopper which was more rope based and less luckly. So if you want a less lucky scheme you have the option of wxw. Keep shopper as it was!

[Crazy]

Aaaarg I had just forgotten about that game, Tom, before you brought it back up in my memory  Very good job of Dilbert though, all credits to him. But I agree, you can`t remove the luckfactor from every god damn scheme. How is Run gonna be able to receive replays of the luckiest turn of the year then?  No seriously, making schemes less based on luck sounds great, but in reality it will damage the game over time, I can`t explain why, but I`m sure of it 

I think this scheme should have more luck involved. Thats whats makes it fun.

Fully agree, that quote is also my main argument When we`re first discussing changing of schemes... Has the team17 scheme been changed? Because I feel the scheme is FULLPACKED with good weps. I played my first team17 with the TUS scheme vs SacrificialLamb this season and I had to change my tactics completely as the game went on, be much more agressive and start attacking the bastard for real, because every crate had a super fantastic wep. I couldn`t collect crates, save weps and girder his ass, I really felt I had no choice but to go for a really offensive line on him I might overreact here, but I just feel the team17 scheme is kind of weird ^^