TEL-System - Need a change?

[MonkeyIsland]

hmm I wonder where SPW is? xD

* For those who has doubt about current system, when you win a match, the points of that match gets added to both your seasonal and overall rating. For example, start of the season, you beat someone and gain 40 points, you will be:
1000 + 40 = 1040  <= seasonal
1247 + 40 = 1287 <= Overall (assuming your overall was 1247 before the match)


* Current system is not perfect, but it has worked. Sometimes our assumptions are wrong. When you wanna alter the system, you gotta make sure about your assumptions. From my experience, high ranked players do not like to play with each other. It seems that they'd more like to look at each other as a PO opponent.
First 4 players in TEL are:

1. Mablak
2. Random00
3. Mirux
4. Crash

Now lets see how many times these 4 have played each other:
Mablak: (0-1)Random00, (1-0)mirux, (1-0)Crash
Random00: (1-0)Mablak, (0-2)mirux, (0-1)Crash
Mirux: (0-1)Mablak, (2-0)Random00, (1-1)Crash
Crash: (0-1)Mablak, (1-0)Random00, (1-1)Mablak

Why? All in different time zones?
Wouldn't you love to see many games played by these players together? doesn't that mean more quality in league games?

Now some people say, after some seasons, if these players play, they will be down in the standings, like this:

For example: TEL Season #3, Standings:

1. DENnis (48%)
2. Peja (50%)
3. chuvash (59%)
.
.
50. Crash (87%)
59. Mablak (89%)
64. Random00 (90%)

My question is, who are these people playing with? They are not playing against each other in the first season (when no one has reached his true rank), what are the chances they play more in the next seasons?

* Now the flaw I see (and not a big one) in the current system is, system values games from same ranked player the same. For example, If an Elite player (Level 20) play with another Elite player, the winner gets 40 pts, while an absolute beginner (level 0) play with another absolute beginner, the winner gain 40 pts as well. So normally, in a new season, lets say high rank players DO play with each other, and on the other side newbies play with each other too, they gain same amount of points.
I haven't seen such thing in 2 years of TUS leagues, because high ranked player do not play with each other a lot.

Anyway to solve this and to encourage high ranked players, I suggest a simpler solution:
The winner of a game, gets his opponent rank level points as extra. That's all! For example:

Elite player (level 20) beats a Superstar player (level 19) => He gets 38 pts + 19 pts = 57 pts
Major player (level 17) beats an absolute beginner (level 0) => He gets 7 pts + 0pts = 7 pts
Absolute beginner (level 0) beats an absolute beginner (level 0) => he gets 40pts + 0pts = 40 pts

As you see, now if 2 same rank play with each other, they gain their rank level as an extra point. So now system is giving more value to a game played by high ranked players, then a game by low ranked. Meanwhile noob bashing still brings you nothing special.

Say now at the start of TEL season 2, Mablak play with Random00:
Mablak (Major, level 17) beating Random00 (General, level 16) => 37 pts + 16 pts = 53 pts!
Random00 (General, level 16) beating Mablak (Major, level 17) => 42 pts + 17 pts = 59 pts!

mean while:
Sillynoob (Beginner, level 1) beating scarednoob (Absolute beginner, level 0) => 37pts + 0pts = 37 pts!

Hope that encourage people with high rank to play more with each other.

[franz]

From my experience, high ranked players do not like to play with each other. It seems that they'd more like to look at each other as a PO opponent.

noticed this too.. it might be fear of losing rank since they are so close.  it might be ego.. or not wanting to lose to a good player    but it could also be timezones or both players looking for TEL on different days.

the current system doesn't force top players to play each other.. so unless there is a rule that they must (which could be a good idea somehow), they probably won't.  their only benefit for playing each other currently is the amount of points for winning... so I don't see how increasing the points won even more makes them want to play each other more.

Maybe SPW's prediction of future TEL standings isn't going to be as extreme as he thinks.  Since it's so close to the start of season2, maybe let it go on as it normally would to see how it goes.  This discussion can continue through the 2nd season so you'll have more time to plan any possible future changes if they're really needed and/or wanted by the players.

[Husk]

Anyway to solve this and to encourage high ranked players, I suggest a simpler solution:
The winner of a game, gets his opponent rank level points as extra. That's all! For example:

Elite player (level 20) beats a Superstar player (level 19) => He gets 38 pts + 19 pts = 57 pts
Major player (level 17) beats an absolute beginner (level 0) => He gets 7 pts + 0pts = 7 pts
Absolute beginner (level 0) beats an absolute beginner (level 0) => he gets 40pts + 0pts = 40 pts

very good idea. just to clear 1 thing:

the superstar would lose 38 points? those 19 points are just something affecting winner's rating?

the current system doesn't force top players to play each other.. so unless there is a rule that they must (which could be a good idea somehow), they probably won't.  their only benefit for playing each other currently is the amount of points for winning... so I don't see how increasing the points won even more makes them want to play each other more.

might aswell give it a try. nothing to rush about tho, as u mentioned.

[TheKomodo]

so we have to say it out loud then. most of us didn't know peja plays elite, and seeing komo getting his spot to playoffs for winning 15 games against peja, might look like the system is flawed.

* Husk hides

Lol Husk, I think it's obvious I didn't get the playoffs spots just by beating peja, look at my games, i've beat other players too.

And imo I know I will play peja 15 times in a season, and if I have a very high chance of winning every single game, it's better to play them all like this than to for example, win 3, wait some days till his rank goes up, win more, wait, win more, wait, I would get more points doing it like this.

Me and peja are both beginners in Elite, but when I want to learn something and I really enjoy it, I learn fast, i've been getting good advice from free and Mablak and I learned alot playing peja.

I've played 15 games with oldsock, I think I won 8 or 9 of those, but I guess this is fine because I lost some, so basically the idea I am getting is, you are not allowed to play 15 games with someone unless you lose some, lol that's so ridiculously funny xD

I know i've done nothing wrong, I had great fun, and if you all want to spit the dummy, just ask nicely and i'll pull out from PO, I'm easy either way lol, I thought maybe some of you would be proud or happy I like this scheme so much now, instead, I see some hints of jealousy and "let's find another reason to moan about Komo" LOL.

Husk, i'll see you on the battlefield mate, let's get it on, i'll play 15 games with you  ! xD



Edit: Oh and I meant to say, a disadvantage of Seasonal reset, good players could sit back for half the season, wait till others gain points, then start owning and stealing all those points.

[franz]

I don't think you did anything wrong Komo, and I'm sure there are others that agree.  I think it's great that you had fun and are enjoying/learning elite, so keep it up.  It's obvious that in future seasons, you won't win as many points due to both of your overall ranks being farther apart.

[Husk]

komo, tldr xD jk (i sure did). id be happy to play some tel with u or any1, but not today (unless i buy new kb).

[TheKomodo]

Yeah exactly, and karma's a bitch haha, someday peja will whoop my ass and get lots of points back xD

[nino]

komo u puto, everytime i call u on msn u doesnot reply, u r seted as busy... wtf u should be seted as dead xD

lets play some games tomorrow ae, i wont to office and ill just fix my bearb in the night so i think ill have time to play some games.

[Rok]

the current system doesn't force top players to play each other.. so unless there is a rule that they must (which could be a good idea somehow), they probably won't.  their only benefit for playing each other currently is the amount of points for winning... so I don't see how increasing the points won even more makes them want to play each other more.

If maximum possible points and a good challenging match isn't enough to make you wanna play better players, then I'm afraid there's no system that could.

Maybe SPW's prediction of future TEL standings isn't going to be as extreme as he thinks.

Rest assurred, it won't be.

[Agneau]

damn guys those posts are really too long!
im off of this topic lol

[franz]

If maximum possible points and a good challenging match isn't enough to make you wanna play better players, then I'm afraid there's no system that could.

you don't have to tell me this, I always love a good challenge, and I actively try to play the top players.  I'm 7-4 vs mablak.  unfortunately I see mablak way more than random00 though due to timezones, so I'm only 0-2 vs him.

I only mentioned a possible rule that forces top players to play each other because not everyone seeks out the best competition.

If you want ideas for brainstorming since you seem sure there's no system, I remember Cases Ladder had special rules for the top10 of their ladder system.  they made sure their top10 was kept competitive and not lazy using activity rules that if they didn't meet the requirements, they would losing ranking.  something like that might be possible.  I'm not saying it's necessary, just an option to look into if enough people want to try it.

[TheKomodo]

Well I got whooped 5-0 by devilage, so you all happy now? xD

[avirex]

cases ladder used "formal challenges" it was a special feature that only top 20 could use, and if say, i formal challenged Mablak, and he was too scared to play me! hehehemonster

he would get some sort of penalty.

i would say 7 active days is a fair time.

like, if TuS registers you as playing mondays, thurs, sat.... and so on, until the 7th day... and u have not completed your formal challege, u get penalized...


then in the recent games section in the replays, u can make note that its a formal challenge.. and everyone will go... "oooooooooooo" and "ahhhhhhhhhh" and stuff like that, u know? hehehehe

[TheKomodo]

You know what avi, that is a really really really good idea, +1

[avirex]

ohh gahh... im sure u already read what i said komo, but i wont be this way....

thanx komo!! +1 !! alright!! RITEOUS!