TEL-System - Need a change?

[Rok]

If maximum possible points and a good challenging match isn't enough to make you wanna play better players, then I'm afraid there's no system that could.

you don't have to tell me this, I always love a good challenge, and I actively try to play the top players.  I'm 7-4 vs mablak.  unfortunately I see mablak way more than random00 though due to timezones, so I'm only 0-2 vs him.

I only mentioned a possible rule that forces top players to play each other because not everyone seeks out the best competition.

If you want ideas for brainstorming since you seem sure there's no system, I remember Cases Ladder had special rules for the top10 of their ladder system.  they made sure their top10 was kept competitive and not lazy using activity rules that if they didn't meet the requirements, they would losing ranking.  something like that might be possible.  I'm not saying it's necessary, just an option to look into if enough people want to try it.

I didn't mean you specifically though, but people in general

We could try setting some number of matches a player from top of the ladder would need to play vs other say top 10 or 20 players to be able to participate in PO, I believe that's what you meant?

[SPW]

hmm I wonder where SPW is? xD

sarcasm?  

I just wrote yesterday I will give some other's a word here and lean back. But tbh, this topic went in an other direction. As I said, I dont have any problems with the rating system. I said, it's sometimes hard (f.E. +8 for win / -70 for loss), but everybody has the same handicap. Sure, I was thinking about only playing versus top players ...

---- hold on, my cat is vomit. ----

back ... but that was hard to handle cause not everytime there are some in my rank zone. So I just accept the conditions with all the risks in it.

I just accept that current rating system but imo its too hard or neither unfair.

I just vote for a reset, thats all for first. But sure we can discuss about any changes during next season. Like darKz posted, I just see a reset clearly winning versus the non-reset option.

I'm looking for the fairest way to have every period the best Eliter's into Playoffs within a clear ranking!

And I dont find any sense to handle it like "classic league", I really dont like to see a very good Eliter somewhere at position #70. I dont find any sense to keep that in TEL league also. It's okay for classic I guess, since there are more schemes with picking right etc, but not for a one-scheme-only-ladder.

Never mind. I just being happy that Elite is still so common and activity is just superior!

Years ago there were some league you simply could activate an "Challenge-Button" for find any oppenent and you had the choice, searching for one's being at your rank +/- or just anyone. I guess TEL isnt active enough or timezone will block it neither. But I just loved that and it gave a special spirit. Matches over the "Challenge-Button" gave more points compare to normal challenges by asking in the game channel. But yea, for TEL it wont work before we have 150 active Eliter's in it.

So maybe just lets start next season without any change and talking about everything in few weeks. And Komo, it's nice to see you have fun while playing Elite, I also like your activity. Keep it mate

[Random00]

interesting discussion so far, but no system can totally convince me.
I think I like MI's suggestion the most, but I have some questions about this:
How are 2v2 single matches handled? Who gets spots for Playoffs?

An Rok: to show you how f@#!ed up the normal tus system is after a few hundred games just look at the Standings. The Playoff seat #2 (daiNa) is ranked at #169. So you really think that this table is showing the skill correctly? ;/

[MonkeyIsland]

TUS 2vs2 matches get count like this:
Average of points of players in Team1 vs Average of points of players in Team2, example:

player1(2000pts) and player2(1000pts) VS player1(1500pts) and player2(1700pts) will be counted like:
1500 ((2000+1000)/2, Above average, level 9)  vs  1600 ((1500+1700)/2, Fairly Competent, level 10)

If team one wins +44. Each player there receives +44. with the new suggestion by me:
Loser's level is Fairly Competent, level 10, so each will receive 44+10 = 54 while each player of Team2 will lose 44 points.

@classic league standings,
This is daiNa in season 17:
daiNa     cFc     80     57     23     71.25%     -1    +11/-6     868     6116

She is 6116 overall and she got qualified by that. It is exactly that example when high ranks moan they have no chance of getting into playoffs which could be true if daiNa wouldn't get qualified.

Anyway, I'll probably apply the suggestion to all leagues since it makes sense for all.

[Random00]

With that:

An Rok: to show you how f@#!ed up the normal tus system is after a few hundred games just look at the Standings. The Playoff seat #2 (daiNa) is ranked at #169. So you really think that this table is showing the skill correctly? ;/

I was refering to this:

Pros
+ Standings that make sense   // there are better ways to solve this, besides that I don't think how current standings don't make sense

And it makes no sense that #169 in a table is qualified for Playoffs. It should be #1 to #8, obviously.

[MonkeyIsland]

The solution for that is to show the overall standings or that season in the same page too. So that you will see both seasonal table and overall table at once.

[nino]

look what i thought ( shit is comming xD )


the points system would be based in overall rating

exemple: iam 1400 overall and random00 is 1900 overall, then seasson 2 started, we are both 1000 in rating seasson but if i beat him ill get like 40 points and if he beat me he would get 25 or something.

this would be fair cos if hes 1900 overall this means that hes good and if i beat him i get more points in the current session than if he beat me cos iam just 1400 overall.

this would force top players to play vs others top players to get more points.

and the playoffs would be done for the best 8 betters for the current session.

dunno if works but xD just trying to help.

[HHC]

isn't that how it works now?

[MonkeyIsland]

Hello nino.
It is 1.5 years that it is like that

[nino]

was testing u guys, gj MI and HHC xD

ok so now, how about put a limit of games per seasson. like 100 ?

[Rok]

An Rok: to show you how f@#!ed up the normal tus system is after a few hundred games just look at the Standings. The Playoff seat #2 (daiNa) is ranked at #169. So you really think that this table is showing the skill correctly? ;/

No, it isn't showing the skill correctly. But her rating is: 6116, it's 7th highest. That means the standings table is flawed, not the rating system. Is it really so hard to grasp the concept of rating? The solution -->

The solution for that is to show the overall standings or that season in the same page too. So that you will see both seasonal table and overall table at once.

[Random00]

I already posted a solution 3 months ago. And there are also other good ideas in this topic.
Its just furstrating if you really think of how to make some improvements but nothing happens, so I just dont play classic singles.

There's the post: https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-general/some-improvement-ideas/msg34539/#msg34539
Point 1 is obviously about the way that standings are displayed.

[MonkeyIsland]

All 3 will be coded random, I'm just gathering ideas like TRL.

[HHC]

All 3 will be coded random, I'm just gathering ideas like TRL.

Question, if I make a detailed plan for a new system, in a presentation of some sort (a nice wall of text with some pictures or graphs who knows), will you consider it as a substitute for the current league system(s)?

There have been many propositions in the past, but none took effect (apart from very minor adjustments here and there). They get posted in the forum, people read them, sometimes applaud them, but one page further people are discussing new changes and after a while the thread just dies out and the ideas are forgotten.
Coming up with an ideal system that suits everyone and has close to zero disadvantages, flaws or whatever, is quite a challenge, so it takes some time. I like to know whether it's worth it before I start drawing up plans. 

[MonkeyIsland]

TUS is all about change. But change for me does not mean to take every idea. I need to see how much an idea is approved by other members.

There have been many propositions in the past, but none took effect (apart from very minor adjustments here and there).

Where and what posts exactly? People post their ideas yes, but some of them are glimpses. Always I need to see how the community react. Some ideas are harmless, some point to a direct system change.

Personally I don't think the system is flawed. It is not perfect indeed, but has worked. I've had people whining over the system in the past year. But I also notice who, in what condition and why is nagging and many of these times their whining shows that the system is working fine. There are people saying that they are stuck in the middle of the system, they are not on top of overall to get "easy" PO spot, and on the other hand, by beating people they earn very few points. But looking at their stats, you see they have played like 20 games in the season and didn't bother to work their way to PO.

So back to your question, if you are willing to go through system, analyze its history and see what really the flaw is, and come up and a nice plan that it looks that it works in theory and is simple for people to understand (your previous suggestion just got labeled as complicated), then: YES!

I suggest asking Rok, DarkOne, Chicken23 and others who has played a decent number of games their opinion of the system. (also you must play to get involved)