Why is losing punished with points?

[Impossible]

Without loosing pts I will stop raging, so I'll.loose sense of playing instead of.points

[Aerox]

Without loosing pts I will stop raging, so I'll.loose sense of playing instead of.points

it would greatly enhance activity if we remove the penalty! Think about it, friends will meet daily to lose 10 and win 10 against each other for win-win situations!

[Statik]

A system where players lose points doesn't motivate them to play more. There are also some drawbacks in overall ratings: top players are not interested in playing at all, so how to beat them and to "steal" their points? Maybe they should lose points with time (similar system existed in Warcraft III ladder, inactive players started to lose points after a week or two).

Also dt instantly lost first place in BnG after Barman quit. I know it makes sense, BUT we put so much effort into gaining those points, it shouldn't be possible to steal them in several days just because of 2-3 lost clanners to a new clan.

Also barman refused to play TUS TTRR with me just because he did care about his points too much. I can understand it. You play several month to get into top 5 and then some good player comes and steals all of your points in 30 mins. Not very fair, huh?

[TheKomodo]

I agree with what you are saying Statik kinda, it's a bit complicated lol.

Like, 1 of the main reasons dt became strong in BnG was after Mablak shared the notching techniques, and barman the star BnG player picking BnG more than dt used to before this, I imagine you guys don't BnG as much as you used to, and although you have Mablak who is extremely good, but rarely plays, and also Statik/OrangE who are very very good also, but I never see them online together, in fact isn't OrangE in 69 now? I feel safe to say barman/myself are a stronger team.

I think it's completely fair you lose these points now, but the way that it happens isn't very fair, by this I mean, me and barman having 1000 rating winning a BnG for 60-70 points against dt as our 1st BnG game is very very unfair in my opinion, we are obviously better at BnG than our rating shows, but remember soon our points will cap out and we won't win much points, and you guys are all good enough to beat other clans to build points in this scheme, I feel you won so much points because at the time barman was addicted to BnG and it was through him you got so much points here, if you guys picked BnG as much as back then against all clans, I think you could reach #1 again.

[Statik]

The system shouldn't react THAT fast to players transfers. And you shouldn't be able to become TOP1 in 1 day (it is more than possible now). Yes, you are stronger in BnG, but our best strategy would be to avoid you until you get as high rating as ours. And it's not about avoiding, it's about logic. Reach an "appropriate" level first, then get a chance to fight the best (who spent much more time gaining all their points)

Now let's say I wanna get higher in Roper overall ratings. It doesn't seem to be possible if I won't play with Zippo/Dulek/Random00/Crash. I'm pretty sure I can beat all of them and become TOP1 in several days, but I don't even have a chance to do it because their summary activity is 2%. If I will play with Cheslea and he will win 1 game out of 20 (pretty possible with cr8 rape), then  I will only lose points. What's the point to play TUS then? I'm fine with funners/clanners

[TheKomodo]

The system shouldn't react THAT fast to players transfers. And you shouldn't be able to become TOP1 in 1 day (it is more than possible now). Yes, you are stronger in BnG, but our best strategy would be to avoid you until you get as high rating as ours. And it's not about avoiding, it's about logic. Reach an "appropriate" level first, then get a chance to fight the best (who spent much more time gaining all their points)

Yeah I agree with that, and i'd be happy to do that, but it's hard enough to even find enough clanners these days, we like to play for 6-8 hours a day on our days off sometimes, and you really only get 2/3 clanners, should be able to get like 10+ in this time but there isn't enough people playing clanners

So our only choice is to pick either what we enjoy most or most points with what clans are available...

Now let's say I wanna get higher in Roper overall ratings. It doesn't seem to be possible if I won't play with Zippo/Dulek/Random00/Crash. I'm pretty sure I can beat all of them and become TOP1 in several days, but I don't even have a chance to do it because their summary activity is 2%. If I will play with Cheslea and he will win 1 game out of 20 (pretty possible with cr8 rape), then  I will only lose points. What's the point to play TUS then? I'm fine with funners/clanners

Well yeah this is why I don't bother with TuS singles much, you can't play the top players enough games.

[DarkOne]

The way I read your story, Statik, does make it unfair - for barman. The way you make it sound, barman is the biggest reason dt got a big BnG rating, which means it was mostly him getting the big points.
It actually isn't fair that you still have a big BnG rating after barman left.

Statik, do you know that we have seasonal ratings now? Since a while, at least. Your overall rating stays, but your seasonal rating resets every season. The fact that your overall rating is very high has absolutely no effect on your seasonal rating. None. And you're going to lose overall rating anyway, even if you don't play Komo/barman, because your overall rating is too high.

Back with barman, you could win 40 games in a row (example), winning you an average of 2 points each, and then you lost one game that cost you 80 points.
With barman gone (assuming he was the best in your group), you'll win, let's say 15 games before you lose a game. So that's an overall loss of 50 points per 16 games. This trend will continue until you get to your actual strength: then you will win 15 games in a row, each giving you 4 points (cause you're lower ranked), and you'll lose one costing you 60 points (again, cause you're lower ranked).

[Statik]

Your reasoning is very limited, DarkOne (sorry for the ropa's mode lol). You are talking only about dt and barman's clan. It would be ideal if we could play any clan any time. Then we would choose stronger opponents and wait until new clans get to the our level. You say it's fair if we will lose all our points to Komo/Barman. Yes, compared to THEM. But not compared to other clans we can't even play (TaG, cFc, CF; we don't even have a chance to play with them cuz of timezones/activity).

[DarkOne]

Then we would choose stronger opponents and wait until new clans get to the our level.

I just explained to you (with number examples) that you would also lose points against them. Not my fault you don't understand.

[Dulek]

Statik, when we play rr/roper TUS fest? Weekend fits you anyhow?

@edit

Let's just move to PMs.

[Statik]

You don't even play singles/clanners, so all your examples are from vacuum with a spherical cow inside.

All your judgment implies that players/clans have a wide choice of opponents and play many games with each other. But the reality is different. Some clans and players don't even meet each other during a season. I don't remember if dt played vs BFW the previous season, so our first meet was in POs lol...

[avirex]

to be honest, rating change should be specific to the team playing...


example:  you will earn more ttrr points by beating barman and statik, then you will barman and avirex...    you will win .5 points for beating avirex, and nino.

also you will win more vs barman and mablak in bng, then you would win vs avirex and barman.

now, when barman leaves dt all the points he earned, are going to be locked in as points that really can not be earned back as easily, because now anyones option is only avirex and statik, or statik, and mablak... but no barman and mablak


and here is my reasoning behind this.... first of all, barman put in alot of work in dt, and he did it for a reason... because that was his clan and wanted to... his work and efforts should not be taken away so easily...  and i have a feeling he wouldnt want them to.

now that he has changed does not mean we should get raped by everyone, and especially not by low seed clans with huge names such as barman2 and Komo... because take a look at what happens... barman2 and komo create a clan, and run through dt points...

now dt is like wtf?? where did all of our points go... ah f@#! it, we will go to sleep...

then we wake up to barman3, and komo2. (aef)  now they get to steal points from us as a fresh bng team playing vs vets..... OH HOW FUN!!!  (keep in mind, alot of dt points are locked into Q.... forever)



so i know i can be confusing at times, so let me say it as clear as possible...

why are barman and komo capable of keep creating fresh young virgin skill levels, when everyone on wnet knows their skill (we dont need komo to tell us each post) but dt is just a sitting targets waiting for darts to be thrown.


if rating change was pin pointed down depending on each set team, we would not have this problem...

[Statik]

Thx Dulek for posting, I think you will help me with an example...

Let's say we are pretty much equal in Roper, so he will lose points after our games even if he will win more games or it will be 50%. It's fair for a perfect world where only me & Dulek live, BUT it's absolutely unfair in a world of Zippo/Crash/Dulek. First two won't play with me, so they will get points for free (I mean "relative" points, relative to Dulek). So there should be a penalty for inactiveness at least.

[TheKomodo]

to be honest, rating change should be specific to the team playing...

I've been saying this for years...

Edit: I totally agree with everything avi just said, and trust me, I do feel awkward with the Q - AeF thing, I do hope you realise that if myself and barman could play 100 BnGs with low rated clans before playing the high ranked ones, we would...

That's why I really wish we could adjust points to fit the players playing...

Just last night me and bar took 111 points from TaG with a BnG/Hysteria, I am surprised they even agreed to play us because I wouldn't blame them if they didn't.

[Statik]

to be honest, rating change should be specific to the team playing...

I've been saying this for years...

It's not that simple. What is clan's TTRR rating? The rating of the 2-3 best teams? Or the overall roping skill of all clan members? I agree, winning tita+nino in RR shouldn't cost us 70 points like it was a win vs me & mablak, but it can be a problem to catch the best clan team to get good points...

P.S. When analyzing clanner points, there is a possibility to specify players, but I don't think it affects anything... Would be interesting if it could change