Very nice map Komo !

Awesome work here

Quote from: DarkOne on September 07, 2014, 02:44 PM

Random turn order isn't completely random - if you have 4 worms, then the next 4 turns will be randomized, but all your worms get their turn. After that is completed, a new batch of turns is decided in exactly the right way - all worms get their turns, but the order in which this happens is randomized.

I didn't know about it, I thought that worms were chosen at random each turn with the risk that some of them couldn't never attack, this is why I talked about luck. At this point I have nothing against this variant and I guess that we can try to play with this scheme if it helps to reduce the abuse of turn order.

Quote from: Aerox on September 07, 2014, 09:16 AM

Quote from: Casso on September 06, 2014, 10:53 PM
Elite (...) I am willing to play in any map except caverns.

Why? Because it's different from banking shots ad infinitum then using SS? Because it introduces new Super Weapons? New tactics?

barman hosted a Cave Elite cup: https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-652 and I watched at least 20 replays. These maps help a lot who always plays in defense without ever attack because there are only 2 ropes and it's very hard to reach the enemy worm. With this kind of maps 70% of the game is played during the sudden death that is a real lottery because the aim  isn't to kill your opponent, but to stay hidden and try not to drown before him.
In an open map this rarely happens because it's much easier to use rope or attack with air strike, napalm, homing, bazooka, petrols, grenades...
Just look these replays and you'll understand what I'm talking about:

https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/game-168151/

In my opinion Elite is the scheme that works best. I would avoid to make changes that might ruin it.

BnG (Bazooka & Grenades)

QuoteNo darksiding.
*Darksiding is hiding your worm in a position where it's impossible for your opponent(s) to hit you with a grenade and at the same time impossible for you to hit your opponent(s) with a grenade.

I would just add a word: "direct" nade. It's too easy to stay hidden and use bank nades for whole game. Opponent should be able to hit you with a direct nade otherwise it would be too difficult to hit the one who decided to hide.

Quote1. Should worm health be set to 250 in 1v1 matches? Between highly skilled players, on slightly more open maps, I feel games can be over very quickly with only 200 health; the additional 50 health makes it take roughly two solid hits more before a worm loses all health, which feels about right to me. For 2v2 matches, 200 health per worm is fine.

I agree with lacoste here. A lot of players doesn't like this scheme, I would avoid stretch their suffering.

Quote2. Should there be rules preventing straight Bazooka shots and the use of Shotgun to damage enemy worms? I feel it's cleaner not to have them because these things can very easily be countered by hiding intelligently and only agreeing to play on at least somewhat complex (not completely flat) maps. It's also somewhat optimistic to hope that everyone's personal definition of what a straight Bazooka shot is would be the same, and I'm not sure an objective definition is even possible to put forward. Can it be and what would it sound like, in terms that the game could enforce on its own, objectively?

In this case I feel that these shots should be allowed. It's up to your opponent to hide in a place where he can't be hit by these forbidden lame shots. Too many rules risk to ruin this scheme.

Quote3. Should Blow Torch, Girder and Pneumatic Drill be part of the scheme? Having infinite Fire Punch, Shotgun and Teleport seems to replace these in most real life situations almost completely, while keeping scheme rules simpler (no grey area Girder rules, fewer darksiding situations). Currently, only infinite Blow Torch remains in the scheme, largely for reasons of tradition, but I guess it doesn't break anything if the darksiding rule is kept simple and easy to agree on. Torch tunnels are kind of fun to try and aim into (and out of) as well, so I'm inclined to keep Blow Torch in there.

Remove girder and keep drill, shotgun, torch and punch, I kinda like them in game.

Hysteria

QuoteModes

1v1 (8 worms per player); Best of 1
2v2 (4 worms per player); Best of 1

8 worms are far too much, it's too chaotic and even more it incentives to suicide worms, We must try to make this behavior disadvantageous. Adding more worms doesn't help. I think that 4 worms are enough.

QuoteMaps

Unedited random maps (any island or cavern preset; example1, example2).
*Ideally, maps should be complex enough so that both sides have the opportunity to attain meaningfully valuable hides (on island maps these would usually be high ground hides that aren't entirely exposed to Bazooka attacks from the sides).
*Any terrain texture is fine. Bridges are fine too.

Hysteria can't be played in a cavern, players like to use bazooka, grenades not just flying with jetpack and drop mines. It would limit too much the game and especially many players would choose these maps against those who have good skills in bng

Quote2. Is 12 randomly placed Mines too much and should we stick to the old variant with only 8 of them? I find that on complex island maps with 8 worms a side, the early game is more meaningful with slightly more than 8 randomly placed hazards, but 16 has proven too much for competitive play because it usually means that every placement spot available after the worms have spawned is filled with mines; this is particularly unwelcome on simpler maps.

In case we will decide to play with 8 worms per team it is necessary to increase the number of mines but as I said, I would keep 4 worms and 8 mines.

Quote4. What happened to random worm order in Hysteria? Has anyone ever tested it thoroughly in 1v1 matches (preferably with more than 4 worms a side) and what were their findings?

Randomsteria is really a good alternative to Hysteria because it makes inconvenient to suicide their worms and it is more difficult to play on the opponent's turns (you know telecow, jetpackcow) but the luck factor is much higher and WA doesn't like this word especially if it is played competitively. We should discuss more about this point because it's very important.

Elite

QuoteMaps

Unedited random maps (any island or cavern preset is generally fine, but highly complex maps are almost a must, so using the double island (top right) and closed cave (bottom left) presets with carefully reseeded objects is the most common; example1, example2).
*Any terrain texture is fine. No, really. Only playing on Fruit and sometimes Cheese is lame and boring for spectators. Bridges are fine too.

I prefer playing Elite on edited maps but I am willing to play in any map except caverns. When a game is hosted players must agree on the map before light up so I don't see the problem. We just need to find the right balance in complexity because we aren't playing mole shopper or Intermediate, this is Elite.
Same for terrain texture except the hell theme. That one should be forbidden from every scheme because it prevents to see properly the map because of his fake black.

Quote1. Should Elite be best of 2 or 3 like Intermediate is? I think one reason it began to be played on stupidly edited maps is that people perhaps felt that being the first to place your worm offered a tangible advantage (I'm sure it doesn't in the grand scheme of things) to the player who gets to start, so making the scheme Bo2/Bo3 would address that fear even better than playing on maps that are 95% terrain. If at the same time, those maps were abolished and forgotten about and Elite became a random map scheme again, average round time would likely decrease a little too, so playing two rounds instead of a single one wouldn't be too bad, time wise.

Elite has always been Bo1 and I would keep it as it is and I add that edited map help to reduce this little advantage. Players doesn't like spending too much time for a match and Bo3 can also mean an hour of game if no draws occur => scheme loses popularity.

Quote3. Should the power of Mortar (commonly at 3 stars of power in modern schemes) and Cluster Bomb (commonly at 1 star) be standardised with what they are in the league varaint of the Intermediate scheme (both at 2 stars) or left as they are? Having this the same between the two ground schemes could make it easier for players to stay in top shape at both of them at the same time, but some people may be too used to being able to (almost) kill 100 health worms with Mortar and grave damage in Elite, and thus be unable to adapt to the change. Cluster Bomb, on the other hand, would be fine at 2 stars of power rather than the current 1 either way, I think. It's used extremely rarely as it is.

I totally agree with lacoste about this point.

Quote5. Does jumping after using Pneumatic Drill and Teleport (during the game, not when initially placing your worms) really have to be forbidden in Elite/Intermediate/Team17? I never really thought of it as a glitch, it's just that the game gives you 0.02s of retreat time after using them, and by mashing a jump key hard, you can get it to sometimes happen. It's probably true that cheaters could write a script that would help them do it more easily, but such cheating is obviously against the rules of any self-respecting competition, so should we really let that spoil this difficult to achieve trick for the rest of us? I really kinda like that it's there.

In this case I agree with KRD, it is part of the game and I would keep it in every scheme. It's very hard to perform so, why not ? In Hysteria I try to use this trick everytime I teleport badly my worm or if I need to jump away from a mine (to damage an enemy worm) and sometimes it worked. I assure you that is a real satisfaction

This is just my personal opinion so it shouldn't be considered by Mods: Impo had a good advantage and he only used a baseball bat while spoon-head used a rope, skunk, homing and 1 girder. Spoon also said that the game was already f@#!ed up.
Moreover, the worm with 35 hp was also quite open and I think impo had a good chance of hitting him the next round considering his skills in BnG. At last, the worm with 100 would definitely have suffered the attack of the worm that was upon him considering that you were going to teleport where the cursor was and that you couldn't block him nowise except an hard petrol.

me too, without answer...

If I don't remember bad someone has his phone number. I can try to contact him (in Italy I don't pay nothing).

I suggest you to read this thread: https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/(tutorial)-how-to-remove-the-standard-schemes-24984/

Very nice j0hny ! Keep it up

Wasn't fall damage applied at 7.34 because of the quit by Csongi or was it just a bug ?

lol @ kinslayer's rage This time he really had bad luck.
At least he didn't quit in advance.

Quote from: StepS on September 03, 2014, 01:53 PM
Open the Install/Install.exe on the CD instead of Setup.exe, and it should install properly.
Also, you don't need Daemon Tools on Windows 8 anymore. Windows 8 supports built-in mounting of .iso files (via double click).

I already suggest him to run Install.exe but it didn't work. He also tried to change compatibility.

Quote from: Impossible on August 30, 2014, 11:16 AM
you rate it 3/5 tho, is it because of no challenge?

I didn't rate it. I probably would have voted 4 stars so I will balance it with 5 stars.

Master doesn't answer me from 21 August, he should be released from the hospital according to what he said.

Good game impo, you didn't miss any shot.

he wasn't https://www.tus-wa.com/profile/Spoon_head/groups-log/

btw, good luck in TdC Spoon