my arguments and supporting evidence for feeling like Albus has cheated are in the CWT discord for everyone to see. This is based off conversations he had in the ONL discord with Dario.

I have given my views on why I believe computer-aided modules, that do things for you automatically, are in my opinion are cheating. I've explained why I think it's different from visual aids which are still cheap, but not cheating because a visual aid still requires human use.

There is a difference between automation and human use, also this wormorder module also gives you the opponents worm order straight away, before any research or even them going through their whole team of worms, you see it right from the start. There are two situations I believe you can cheat with the module and Albus has admitted to using it in one of those situations, he has yet to answer my second question.

I don't want to repeat myself again and again. I clearly asked Albus 2 questions about him giving himself an advantage over another player 'Dario' with the use of a computer program.

Quote from: Kradie on September 24, 2021, 12:55 PM

QuoteCheating by any program is highly forbidden. Anyone caught on cheating may be banned for the whole season (at the moderators discretion).

Albus - I think the key element is the 'Any' program to cheat.

gg

Quote from: Albus on September 24, 2021, 10:22 AM

Quote from: Chicken23 on September 24, 2021, 10:17 AM
I think your in the wrong game and you are cheating in default schemes, perhaps you'd enjoy single worm schemes more?

Many years playing intermediate without realizing that in fact I don't like this scheme

So am I a cheater for you? Good to know. But tell me which TUS rule I broke.

By the way, what do you think of players who use a piece of paper as a ruler on the monitor screen to get more accuracy with some weapons? Who does this is cheater for you? I know some pro players who do (or did) this. If this is cheating for you, I would like to see you call them cheaters here in public too.

Quote from: Chicken23 on September 24, 2021, 10:17 AM
I'm not saying you can't use the module casually in worms, but what I'm saying is its cheating in league matches if you use it.

tracking worm order manually is an important element of schemes with 8 worms, (even 4 but a lot easier to do manually). I don't want to repeat everything I've said on discord over and over.

It is not cheat if the opponent has the same right.

If both players want to show their team order, that's their problem. To want to prevent this is to disproportionately interfere with the players' autonomy. I think this is complete nonsense.

---

If I want to create a tournament using a variation of intermediate where the order of the enemy team must be explicit and automatically show the weapons used by the enemy? Couldn't I do this? Aren't people free to create their own schemes and rules?

It's cheating and you already cheated against Dario by creating random names for your team but displayed the order above them secretly, without him knowing.

You've used a 3rd party tool to give you a competitive advantage in league games and cheated. You are the only league player arguing for these modules, because your hands are already dirty and you have a guilty conscience of cheating IMO.

Quote from: Albus on September 24, 2021, 10:16 AM

Quote from: Chicken23 on September 24, 2021, 10:08 AM
But being able to zoom in to take care around pixels in games would give the user of the module a much greater advantage than those who don't know about the module, and we shouldn't be encouraging everyone to get modules to play the game on an equal playing field, we should be discouraging modules that give users advantages over others and we should be mastering the original options this game gives us inherently.

The module only has to send a message notifying that the person is using it. It's up to the other player to also use or refuse to play with the other person.

It shouldn't even get to that, it should be banned from league schemes because of the advantage it can give a player to win a game verse those not used it. If both players agree it still shouldn't be allowed because its like allow both players to cheat. That shouldn't make it legal.

All these modules you are advocating for are to help you win games outside of the defined official programming of the game. Therefore it's a cheat.

Quote from: Albus on September 24, 2021, 10:06 AM

Quote from: Chicken23 on September 24, 2021, 10:01 AM
Could you please provide more detail on the updates you've made to address the possible cheating?

Did you see the name of the attachment?

Quote from: Chicken23 on September 24, 2021, 10:01 AM
I believe the module should be banned across all league games and competitive games and players using it should have their games voided. I also believe you shouldn't be allowed to agree to use the module. (I've said all this on discord..)

So, I am forced to memorize the name of the worms and the sequence of all my teams because you consider this an important "skill"? If yes, I think I'm in the wrong game. Me and my opponent, if we want, can't we see our teams from 1 to 8?

I've just seen it and such a shame, perhaps nizikawa is up for hearing the complaints and points being raised by several members of the community who are passionate about strategic default schemes where memorizing worm order, and memorizing many other elements of this game is a measurement of your skill.

I think your in the wrong game and you are cheating in default schemes, perhaps you'd enjoy single worm schemes more?

I'm not saying you can't use the module casually in worms, but what I'm saying is its cheating in league matches if you use it.

tracking worm order manually is an important element of schemes with 8 worms, (even 4 but a lot easier to do manually). I don't want to repeat everything I've said on discord over and over.

If this is software that you manually have to mark the use of the weapon. I don't see a problem, If this software automatically tracks weapons use it is cheating.

I'd consider zooming into a worm or view any bigger (expanding the screen to see pixels) more than the green biggest original resolution to be considered cheating. If the scrolling of res is pre-set to the resolutions in the worm options then I think this wouldn't be so bad.

But being able to zoom in to take care around pixels in games would give the user of the module a much greater advantage than those who don't know about the module, and we shouldn't be encouraging everyone to get modules to play the game on an equal playing field, we should be discouraging modules that give users advantages over others and we should be mastering the original options this game gives us inherently.

Quote from: nizikawa on September 21, 2021, 09:49 PM
I have taken your suggestions into consideration and as result I was able to develop a new, improved wormkit module to address the issues of wkWormOrder just for you.
I hope you will enjoy using this new module.

Sorry but could you explain these updates? I've not followed the convo here on TUS forums but been involved and as everyone knows I see this module as cheating and expressed this several times on discord discussions.


There is a situation now (maybe it's change and your fixes have solved the problem?) where some use of the module occurred against Dario. He no longer will play players with worm names that aren't 1-8 because the module could be being used without knowledge and someone can cheat if they randomize or change their own worm names every game, but have the order displayed above those names, without the opponent knowing they are doing this.

Could you please provide more detail on the updates you've made to address the possible cheating?

I believe the module should be banned across all league games and competitive games and players using it should have their games voided. I also believe you shouldn't be allowed to agree to use the module. (I've said all this on discord..)

Senator - like the t17, is this game for next season too? As reporting went down when Albino tried to report?

I've shared my thoughts in discord on this matter.

Its massively cheating and a total shame this module has been released. Frankly wreckless to the competitive league scene for worms.

Using your memory is a key skill of this game. There is a big difference between using paper and pen aids to support you, which are prone to human error and take some attention away from the turn/game. Having a tool that automates this for you, gives you enemy worm order, or even your own on screen is a massive advantage and creates an uneven playing field.

Worms is a turn based strategic game, this module is cheating in the same degree as an aimbot. Because aiming is all about memory too.

I personally feel anyone using this module in any leagues should be banned and games voided.

Quote from: HHC on August 29, 2021, 05:26 PM
Saw it coming I guess... Rash has really been slacking off these last couple of days

Nice to see you fada. It's like 15 years since we last played 
I still sometimes play with my bro Mini on saturdays, but other than that.. absolutely not ever never 


Go Vokistan!

Sounds like HHC, Mini and IBB should make a clan for Saturday evening games!

Quote from: Deadcode on August 29, 2021, 08:35 PM
T17 is strongly skill-based. What I've observed is that with a sufficient gap in skill, the differences in luck within any given round will almost always average out, and the stronger player will win. I would conjecture there to be at least 4 tiers of skill in which the person with higher skill wins at least 85% of the time.

Exactly.

We should have another pool of prize money for betting on the winners and somehow come up with odds for the different teams and their chances of to win.

I bet Komodo could analysis some pre-existing games to work out those odds.

ps, sorry that I come from a country where betting on sports is legal, is this allowed in the US or illegal?

pps. i realise that this won't actually happen but my point is that there is a lot of skill involved!

As of 29/08/2021:

85 clanners have been played by 7 clans so far.

We are likely to exceed that and perhaps get the most clanners played since 2018.

good job!

Quote from: Senator on August 11, 2021, 03:36 PM

Quote from: Komito on August 11, 2021, 03:20 PM
Wait, I thought the power of bow was reduced from dealing 50 damage to much less?

The WL scheme has it reduced from 50 to standard 15 per arrow (Bow upgrade off). Deadcode's scheme has it somewhere between.

I prefer the scheme by Deadcode, 22 for bow just makes it a bit more interested and unique, that little bit better in damage terms than FP and DB which you have unlimited of.

I wasn't aware that the nana probability was less in DC's, but it works and I don't mind it either.

Both WL and DC scheme are better than TUS official and I would happily vote in favour of either of these schemes replacing TUS official.

wxw