AFR rule is removed from Shopper Classic league. Who be against?

[Tomi]

do we really need to touch all walls in wxw ? xD 

This will be the next relief, because there are about 6-8 people on WormNet nowadays who can play wxw..

And since those people don't really play funner games, newbies don't even know what they could reach in roping..

So they can see only ground games in #ag, like intermediate, mole shopper and supersheeper so they play that..

I wouldn't have been playing this game for more than 2 weeks if I wouldn't have found shopper scheme or wouldn't have seen some nlf guys roping..

[Maciej]

It's good AFR has been removed. Shopper is not classic rope scheme like wxw or roper. You use rope only for getting crate, that's all. There are maps with so hard hides that using zook or sheep is a suicide!

[Chelsea]

It's good AFR has been removed. Shopper is not classic rope scheme like wxw or roper. You use rope only for getting crate, that's all. There are maps with so hard hides that using zook or sheep is a suicide!

ye, 100% true

or use petrol 

[Aerox]

You are currently asking if we really need to make shopping mandatory in shopper. The name of the scheme kind of implies that we do

The name implies the scheme is about shopping crates. It can be that without being mandatory each turn. Just like afr, picking up the crate is still preferable since you would otherwise leave the crate for the opponent or risk your hiding if you pick up the crate after attack.

I agree.

There's no reason for CBA, it's only there as a filter to teach people they need rope basics before playing shoppers.

[theredi]

It's good AFR has been removed. Shopper is not classic rope scheme like wxw or roper. You use rope only for getting crate, that's all. There are maps with so hard hides that using zook or sheep is a suicide!

dafaq i just read? Shopper is 100000000000x more classic than wxw

[Hurz]

isnt wxw just a ropebased shopper...?

[Aerox]

isnt wxw just a ropebased shopper...?

Not really. It's just a roper in a linear map where they try to remove the crate spawn luck by making the roping distance constant throughout all the game

it also tries to be inbetween by having crates, which are basically roper mines with varying damage.

[Tomi]

isnt wxw just a ropebased shopper...?

For me wxw is a hardened shopper, where there is not only cba, but you need to touch some walls before attacking too. It isn't a rule that map should be linear I guess.

So the basic idea was something like this in my opinion: http://wmdb.org/14041

There are maps with so hard hides that using zook or sheep is a suicide!

Yes that's true, I usually tried not to play on such maps, coz in my opinion shopper isn't roper that should be played on a hard map.. it's all about rope knocking, making piles and using your weapons the best way. There are some cases when you don't use a good weapon, coz you need to save it in case when your opponent gets a hard hiding.

So if people wouldn't use extremely hard maps for shopper, just to make it roper with 30 secs, then afr wouldn't be dead big deal.

[Aerox]

Your opinion is wrong. You're free to have it, though.

We're going to call Elite a "hardened" BnG because you can move and have more weapons? They both have infinite grenades.

I say this because I assume you're comparing WxW and Shopper because they both have infinite ropes right?

Then why is defaulters are the better shoppers (unless we're playing in cavern shit maps were roping skill overtakes everything else)? Why are good WxWers better ropers?

Roping in shopping is like Bnging in Elite. It's barely a complementary skill. Shopping is much more similar to Team17, but barely so, because strategies are so different, Shopper is more like a short term Team17. The rope is only there to multiplicate the weapon usage options and making the scheme rich enough to have survived all this time with such popularity. A popularity roping doesn't have because it actually requires roping skill. Like WxW. Unless played on a noob map were you have 10 seconds to decide what to do after touching all walls.

When I talk to WxW I specifically talk about playing it in a map were a very fast roper making use of fast scrolls and fast spikes can barely touch all walls and have only a couple of seconds to shoot. "Proper" in a nutshell.

It's people that didn't realize these concepts and played shoppers the ones that ended up inventing WxW. And because of this, and it becoming some sort of gimmicky "shopper for pros", because it filtered those who couldn't rope, from the plenty and plenty of public shopper/wxw that used to be hosted in #ag, and made them feel a step above. This feeling is what made ropers cringe, and thus they long considered WxWers to be noobs and WxW to be a shit scheme who had more memorization than improvisation. And they were right in a sense, since a WxW only player would struggle much more translating to Roper random maps than the other way around, providing the latter can somewhat RR.

How is this not beyond obvious?


edit: the solution to this would be to define said schemes and stablish an OFFICIAL ENFORCED map pack influenced by said definition. Because in these schemes, map selection changes the gameplay completely, and people tweak this to fit their particular needs, making shopper more similar to roper than to shopper, or making WxW a shopper. It's meta, but it's what people do. And it doesn't make any f@#!ing sense you guys have scheme rankings and shit it goes against that. This needs to be a priority.

[Peja]

i think we talk about maps like this: https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-181015/

 

[Tomi]

Your opinion is wrong. You're free to have it, though.

Thx

I say this because I assume you're comparing WxW and Shopper because they both have infinite ropes right?

No I compared wxw to shopper, because wxw has the same rules as shopper + wba.

Then why is defaulters are the better shoppers (unless we're playing in cavern shit maps were roping skill overtakes everything else)?

Ofc, who can play deafult schemes well, knows a lot of tactics, and about 10% of them is used in shopper too.. so, since they know them (e.g. "turn advantage"), they can beat a player who doest.. but the amount of skills that are required for shopper isn't that much, you don't need to be a good defaulter to be pro in shopper. A player who were played only rrs in his life can learn how to play shopper in a short time too (not everybody! but I know some good shopper players who were pro in shopper before they got good in default schemes). And then the roper will probably roping much safer than a defaulter, who will make 1 or 2 rope mistakes and so the roper may win the game. What I want to say is that you can't say that defaulters are better in shopper than ropers, this is just not true. Chelsea is a good defaulter, bad roper, but good in shopper. I am good in roper, bad in deafult schemes, but good in shopper. So even thought I am a roper I managed to learn those little skills for shopper.

Why are good WxWers better ropers?

Because they can rope well and who can't even reach a wxw roping skill usually can't play roper too. However it's not required to be good in wxw to be good in roper or vice versa. That's why I can't compare wxw to roper.. they both need roping skills, but not the same (because of the map style) and other tactics.


By the way, you may be right, because I wasn't here when wxw were invented. I just wanted to correct, that you thought I compared wxw to shopper just because infinite ropes

[Senator]

isnt wxw just a ropebased shopper...?

Not really. It's just a roper in a linear map where they try to remove the crate spawn luck by making the roping distance constant throughout all the game

it also tries to be inbetween by having crates, which are basically roper mines with varying damage.

When I talk to WxW I specifically talk about playing it in a map were a very fast roper making use of fast scrolls and fast spikes can barely touch all walls and have only a couple of seconds to shoot. "Proper" in a nutshell

WxW could try to be inbetween also by having maps that support creative/effective weapon use and have places for blocking the opponent (which is forbidden in roper). In most wxw maps getting cluster bomb, for example, means bad luck because you can't place it in a tight place. With better map design you could make a quick knock in the last second and make ~70 dmg with a cluster instead of using bazooka. You can call it "roper with shopper elements" or "hardened shopper". Having only couple of seconds to shoot can mean "hardened shopper" in certain type of map. If wxw is ment to be just roper with constant roping distance, I don't understand why it has crates or why blocking is allowed.

[VoK]

remove shopper classic lehuahe ? Who be against?

[Sbaffo]

remove shopper classic lehuahe ? Who be against?

Remove both hysteria and shopper from classic league and make a new league. TNL (The Noobs League) hueheue.




Also add mole shopper in

[ANO]

 certain things don't change I see,,, 5 pages of gn gn gn gn gn gn... so boring.
just play