Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 07:20 AMperhaps it's the most feature rich league, but that's not all there is to it.
So tell me what else there is to it... dont make brazen statements without any foundation.
As you said TUS is definitely the most feature rich league there has ever been, that is a good thing. I will admit that people are not as motivated to get PO games done as they used to be, but you cant blame TUS for that. This is an issue with the community at large, I guess people are not as eager to win POs as they used to be, this is noting to do with TUS. Is this a bad thing? Yes it is, but again this has nothing to do with the design of TUS or the way TUS is run. The mods do a good job of trying their hardest to encourage peoplento get games done at the end of the season.
Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 07:20 AMD1, stop making excuses, you're better than that, notice the vocal new school? They're not living in the shoutbox and posting internet images from 2002 because society has evolved into this, it's because quality is not demanded, it's not even recommended.
"Vocal new school"
You are talking about a MINORITY of TUS users who like to spam the shoutbox and post troll threads. I dont like this any more than you do, but again this is not a product of TUS, this is a product of the current community as you stated, so I dont see how this is relevant to the workings of TUS which is what this thread was originally about.
I also dont see how a handful of people spamming the shoutbox is a big deal. Remember when MrE was hacking everyone? Remember when you got hax? Thats a far more serious issue than a few adolescents posting images in the shoutbox, would you not agree?
Also you're guilty of trolling, you are a troll. You are smart and articulate but you lack tact ropa, you have no tact and thats a crying shame. Remember when TUS first started and you were running your mouth all over the place talking shit (check trash can). So you are not one to talk about spam and trolling, as you're as guilty as the rest of them.
Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 07:20 AMNail will tell you that this ain't a problem, as you see, he's one of the many examples of someone actually believing the TUS propaganda. The phenom known as being actively new school. What is it, you might ask? Well, TUS shields itself against any kind of progress that isn't populistic and this scheme of working things out is flawed from its conception.
I have already said I dont condone spam and trolling that has plagued TUS as of late, but this is a community issue, not a direct consequence of the workings of the league. This is a MINORITY of users and isnt a reflection of the vast majority of TUS users. So yes this ISNT an issue, not a serious one anyway, and certainly not one that cant be corrected if it did become a serious issue.
"NAiL actually believes the TUS propaganda"
...wtf are you talking about, "propaganda", seriously. List examples of so called "TUS propaganda"... wtf are you talking about? This is a prime example of the nonsense you come out with sometimes.
I dont properly understand your last sentence, but TUS does not shield itself from progress, TUS is the only example of a league where the users can openly criticise and suggest new features... AND THEY WILL BE LISTENED TO! This is wonderful, this is democracy and this makes for a diverse and exciting number of ways to enjoy competitive games.
Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 07:20 AMWhy? Because if you're going to be a populistic authority, ideally you'd want the people to be insightful to the topics you're presenting them. But when you do nothing to educate them then I can't help but think things are being done wrong.
If you're talking about the league rules not being clear enough, or the design of TUS being quite maze like then I would agree. But again, this is not a serious issue, this does not affect the vast majority of TUS users. Most people know how the league works and most people who dont know will eventually learn, this isnt a serious issue but there is no harm in making the rules and workings clearer.
Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 07:20 AMThe best league WA has ever had? How are you measuring it, Nail? Games played? Well, it's also the league with the most complaints, probably the second league with the most bans. And not to mention other things that you probably can't grasp them being TUS fault, things like, lack of clan competitiveness, lack of motivation for Playoff completion, lack of debate in the forums and basically lack of everything other than playing games.
Yeah thats right, the best league WA has ever had. Three different leagues, cups, challenges, maps, files, tournaments, statistical analysis and comparison of a players performance.. Its also the most active league there has been thus complaints will rise proportionally, thats another irrelevant point. As to bans, how many people are permanently banned. Zero? I remember being banned numerous times from FB and im a nice guy.
The difference between me and you is that I have been actively playing this game since 2005. You stopped playing actively when I started, you havent been a proper part of the community for the last 5 years, I have. You are a spectator, I am a participant. You dont take part in competitive games any more, I do. You are an observer who likes to cast judgement and provoke reaction. You will often raise good points although you also make points that have no foundation and are based more on personal bias rather than actual facts, which is sad.
We agree on the fact that a lack of competitiveness (especially with regards to PO games) is a community issue, it has nothing to do with TUS, it was the same with XTC, its been like this for the last half decade, again, its a community issue and has nothing to do with the design of the league.
Let me make clear, I ACCEPT, that for you, and many other people, the golden age of worming is over. I UNDERSTAND, that back in the day everyone was more competitive and it was quite an achievement to win a season. The thing is, its not 2004, its 2011, things have changed. The community has changed since then, things are more diverse now, priorities are different. Dont confuse community issues with the workings of the league and dont assume its the league that determines the mind state of the community. A douche will be a douche whether he is told not to be or not.
Quote from: ropa on August 11, 2011, 07:20 AMNice league indeed, as for its actual value to the community: other leagues have done infintely more
Infinitely more? Thats quite a statement, but can you actually back it up with examples of how other leagues have done "Infinitely more"?
I dont think you can, because its unfounded trash talk.
No other league creator has been as dedicated to their league as MI is. No other league has taken on criticism and suggestions and made them both tangible and functional like TUS has. TUS is standing the test of time and the site is constantly improving, I see no major problems with TUS.
The ORIGINAL POINT of this thread was about people not understanding how the league works, this is not a major issue and it certainly isnt unresolvable. In the years ive been playing TUS ive had a problem with people not understanding how the league works... maybe once or twice, and thats to be expected.
Do you really think thousands of games would be consistently played each month if TUS was doing something seriously wrong?
